I think that's the logical way to go about it and how most people will probably see it, I'm just personally not a fan of banning a whole Pokemon when the root issue is something outside of the Pokemon itself, especially something like tera that is inevitably going to cause a lot more issues like this in the future.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
After playing several games, I'm of the opinion that defensive Terastalizing alone is overpowered, let alone offensive Tera-ing of STABs or offensive-defensive Tera-ing for a stronger coverage move or better Tera Blast typing along with a better defensive typing (though, make no mistake, Fighting is Chi-Yu's best Tera type when it runs Tera Blast because you get to smash Tyranitar/Hydreigon/Blissey/opposing Chi-Yu really hard with it and you get a Stealth Rock resistance to boot). Here are 3 games where my defensive Terastalizing - where I carry no moves that get the Tera typing's STAB - wins me the game, especially games I would have otherwise lost, and honestly, I think I'll keep ending up playing more such games:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On some of the other biggest elephants in the room:
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1714546220 (Tera Steel Great Tusk wins the ending 1-vs-1 against Chien-Pao somehow; all I can assume is that the opposing Chien-Pao was Swords Dance/Ice Shard/dual STAB)
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1713976884-vvkd5f4ugw60s3ccm2a9vsyvz8r6sibpwv (While I had previously figured that Fairy was RestTalk Annihilape's best Tera typing due to its sweet resists and neutralities, tanking a Flutter Mane Shadow Ball with Tera Fairy Annihilape and then stealing back the game from there (admittedly starting with a lucky Sleep Talk roll) was really clutch)
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1714074617-q7kpmvuyky4n10b18luo15pl81uqzszpw (Tera Steel Specs Dragapult beats Baxcalibur (who somehow doesn't run Ice Shard; maybe they're Dragon Dance + 3 attacks?) and then cleans up the rest of the team with only Shadow Ball)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On some of the other biggest elephants in the room:
- Flutter Mane feels among the most overpowered, if not the most overpowered, of the new mons. It's telling when I put multiple Flutter Mane checks on the same team (including Tera Fairy Scarf Flutter Mane) and still don't feel secure against it. The first team I made somehow has this Chi-Yu set as an additional (shaky) Flutter Mane check, that's how desperate I am:
- Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Flamethrower / Lava Plume - Calcs:
- 252 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chi-Yu: 121-142 (38.5 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chi-Yu: 133-159 (42.3 - 50.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chi-Yu: 136-162 (43.3 - 51.5%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chi-Yu: 154-182 (49 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Flutter Mane: 248-292 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
- 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Flutter Mane: 152-180 (60.3 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this breaks Flutter Mane Subs pretty well)
- In the meantime, I am amazed how well this Chi-Yu can still break slower mons open.
- Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest
- Chien-Pao hits like a truck and its priority makes checks shakier than they already were, but at least Chien-Pao actually gets forced out by faster stuff and checks with priority, especially since the priority users can generally tank an Ice Shard or Sucker Punch. Quaquaval can thankfully set up all over Chien-Pao's face and go for a counter-sweep as long as Chien-Pao has no super-effective moves for it. Chien-Pao definitely wants more power in its priority moves, IMO, especially since it needs Black Glasses or bigger to secure the guaranteed OHKO of Flutter Mane with Sucker Punch. (Never-Melt Ice hasn't felt too bad, either, but man does Heavy-Duty Boots feel kinda weak.)
- Shed Tail actually hasn't felt quite as nasty as Flutter Mane; Cyclizar's Sub is a bit too easily broken the turn it Shed Tails, and Palafin-Zero unironically is quite a good lead against lead Scarf Cyclizar because its Flip Turn goes second. At least my Draco Meteor Scarf Cyclizar set has not only threatened Dragapult out but also revenged a Baxcalibur at around half health.
- Someone finish programming Revival Blessing already so we can all test how broken it really is; I already stuck Pawmot in one of my teams as a Chien-Pao check thanks to Iron Fist Mach Punch, and with all the slower Paradoxes and other threats running around, Pawmot hasn't been a complete liability yet. (Let's put it this way: Maushold has felt like a bigger liability in my games despite being able to switch into Scarf/Specs Shadow Ball.)
- Toxic Debris Glimmora has felt like an absolute revelation when it comes to setting hazards - just switch the guy into a physical move and get a free layer of Toxic Spikes! It feels Cramorant-Gorging in Hackmons levels of awesome to do game-swinging things just by switching in and saccing a mon, let alone ticking them off for multiple turns as you cough up even more Toxic Spikes (e.g. Stealth Rock, Mortal Spin, Earth Power to dunk Steel-types, Rock Tomb/Memento/Power Gem to tick off the sweeper in front of it, Sludge Wave to dent Flutter Mane - and yes, doing effectively two moves in a single turn has felt as awesome as it sounds). Yes, my offence teams have found the Poison chip to be really helpful. Partner Glimmora up with Gholdengo, though, especially since Gholdengo pretty much counters Corviknight (let's see how well Power Trip Corv fares against the meta).
- Might just be me, but Iron Valiant hasn't felt quite that busted yet. I've been trying Choice Band in an attempt to pump Spirit Break to better levels and surprise OHKO offensive Gholdengo with Knock Off (and cripple defensive Poison-types with Trick), but it still gets punched out by faster mons too easily and doesn't hit as hard as I'd like. Special attacker Iron Valiant has to resort to Shadow Ball or Tera-ing in order to deal with Gholdengo, so I think it's the distinctly weaker set.
- Dragapult is still the fastest Ghost-type in the meta, has Infiltrator and Dragon Darts to mess with Shed Tail users' heads, and doesn't even need Tera Ghost or Tera Blast in order to make serious holes in opposing teams. I want to use Scarf Pult in this meta, but needing Specs instead in order to OHKO Flutter Mane with Shadow Ball (and therefore watching Specs Pult get clowned by Scarf/sun Flutter Mane as long as I don't Tera) is definitely deterring me.
- Speaking of Gholdengo, I still feel like the best set right now is a Substitute-using set, as you can capitalize on relatively passive mons and fortunate Choice locks to smoke close to any Ghost/Dark-type they switch in with Make It Rain. Dazzling Gleam looks quite underrated on Gholdengo, too, especially Tera Fairy ones. Dunno whether the 4th move should be Thunder Wave, Recover, or Nasty Plot (and whether I should run Hex instead of Shadow Ball). It's also quite possible that an offensive set is better than a defensive set for our vaguely Heatran-resembling friend.
- Specs Iron Bundle still misses Hydro Pump too often (e.g. Boots Chien-Pao can OHKO Iron Bundle with Sacred Sword after Rocks if Iron Bundle misses) and also misses the OHKOs it needs (e.g. Flutter Mane can tank a Specs Iron Bundle Hydro Pump guaranteed without Rocks and has a greater than 50% chance of taking one after Rocks). Being a pretty darn fast pivot move user with close to no need to run coverage still feels fairly good lead-wise, though.
- Supreme Overlord Kingambit has some nice power mid- to late-game, including 2HKOing Toxapex with Kowtow Cleave without using Swords Dance, but it's a bit too easily clowned by people dancing around Sucker Punch (unlike Chien-Pao). At least it can set Stealth Rock with its decent bulk.
- RestTalk Annihilape runs over (the one remaining guy running) stall, being close to status-immune and having a close-to-unstoppable Rage Fist. Drain Punch is a good secondary STAB that lets you need to Rest less. RestTalk Annihilape makes a reasonable semi-universal switch-in, too, as it needs to get hit in order to boost Rage Fist. I've seen another user use Annihilape to blow holes open with Final Gambit and even Curse, so the ghostly ape is shockingly versatile.
- Scarf Infiltrator Noivern actually hasn't felt completely terrible yet as an emergency Defogger who can snipe Dragapult and fast pivot with U-turn. That lack of power when it comes to not Draco Meteoring things bites, though.
Last edited:
Okay so I have come to a revelation
Last respects is a move that hits the hardest when your the only one left
so its a team dependand move
you know what else is a team depedand move?
Beat Up, and Weavile is still in this game btw
So now you can have a strong lead AND a strong end
Now, i tried to build a team around it and I got 6-0 by a Choice Band Azumarill, but Im betting my ass off somebody is gonna make a decent team out of this idea and the whole meta will burn to fucking ashes
Last respects is a move that hits the hardest when your the only one left
so its a team dependand move
you know what else is a team depedand move?
Beat Up, and Weavile is still in this game btw
So now you can have a strong lead AND a strong end
Now, i tried to build a team around it and I got 6-0 by a Choice Band Azumarill, but Im betting my ass off somebody is gonna make a decent team out of this idea and the whole meta will burn to fucking ashes
I'd like to share a Cyclizar set that I've been using in conjunction with Arboliva's Grassy Terrain ability setup
Cyclizar @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- Shed Tail
I cannot even begin to tell you how much having Power Whip as an option has saved my butt against certain threats. In addition to Knock Off, Rapid Spin and Shed Tail combined utility.
Cyclizar @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- Shed Tail
I cannot even begin to tell you how much having Power Whip as an option has saved my butt against certain threats. In addition to Knock Off, Rapid Spin and Shed Tail combined utility.
Kingambit Sucker Punch duels are so stressful lol.
Speaking of him though, Supreme Overlord is the only way to go for this mon at this stage of the meta. With that said, I'm curious, is Showdown running the ability as intended? I remember reading on these boards that it actually gets a 20% boost on the first Pokemon going down, and then 10% each afterwards. Showdown describes the ability as simply being 10% per downed pokemon. It could be working correctly, but the description is wrong at the moment.
Speaking of him though, Supreme Overlord is the only way to go for this mon at this stage of the meta. With that said, I'm curious, is Showdown running the ability as intended? I remember reading on these boards that it actually gets a 20% boost on the first Pokemon going down, and then 10% each afterwards. Showdown describes the ability as simply being 10% per downed pokemon. It could be working correctly, but the description is wrong at the moment.
I really hope terastalizing doesn't last long, it's definitely not Dynamax levels of no thought win button but terastalizing completely changing your defensive type is incredibly broken and leads to a lot of wins/losses that really shouldn't have happened otherwise. I don't think unpredictability is an inherently bad thing but it's at a point where it feels like it's too much, especially with how many mons seem designed to be kept in check by their glaring weaknesses, not to mention how many get way too offensively crazy by having even more STAB coverage.
CB scizor is fantastic against the many of the crazy HO speed demons like Flutter Mane, Iron Valiant, ChienPao. Running that alongside some other form of priority has been working nicely to keep me safe from HO abuse.
I know that banning Tera seems to be item #1 for most people, but I’ve been having a hard time getting a feel for Tera because it’s frankly overshadowed by the amount broken power mons running around. So far I haven’t noticed a particular mon being an OMFG abuser of Tera like we had for dynamax with Gyrados, etc. My preference would be to ban stuff like FlutterMane, ChienPao, that have no hope being in OU regardless of Tera first. And then assessing other mons/booster energy and Tera itself.
Honestly would be pretty disappointed if we banned Tera before people really had a chance to work out unique and cool combos with it (I really like the Ghost Garganacl)!
I know that banning Tera seems to be item #1 for most people, but I’ve been having a hard time getting a feel for Tera because it’s frankly overshadowed by the amount broken power mons running around. So far I haven’t noticed a particular mon being an OMFG abuser of Tera like we had for dynamax with Gyrados, etc. My preference would be to ban stuff like FlutterMane, ChienPao, that have no hope being in OU regardless of Tera first. And then assessing other mons/booster energy and Tera itself.
Honestly would be pretty disappointed if we banned Tera before people really had a chance to work out unique and cool combos with it (I really like the Ghost Garganacl)!
Try this guy out if you want a sure-fire answer to Flutter Mane
bit overkill but it's fun still
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Head
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
terastilizing isnt usually necessary but it's there if you need it.
Bonus points if you use this in sand
bit overkill but it's fun still
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Head
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
terastilizing isnt usually necessary but it's there if you need it.
Bonus points if you use this in sand
I haven’t had a lot of trouble with fluttermane
mainly because I’ve been running a parting shot thunder wave grimmsnarl that basically stops it in its track.
mainly because I’ve been running a parting shot thunder wave grimmsnarl that basically stops it in its track.
I threw a big dumb rain and electric terrain team together to enable the stupidest broken threats with the biggest dumb numbers in speed and attacking stats with the biggest dumb complementary STABs and guess what?! Rain naturally beats sun and sand, and obviously ET + Paradox mind are stupid and help beat Rain counter play like Hail. All and all, it came out pretty dumb and good.
Pelliper and Pinurchin enable the speed boosting abilities and boost STABs, and provide “defensive utility.” Also Urchin throws out hazards while you wait for it to die.
Barrasweka lost Flip Turn but it gained Rain boosted Water Terra type and it’s still fast as hell with Swift Swim. Oooooooof.
Speedy Iron Valliant seemed like a great fit for rain as it beats Tyranitar, Abamasnow and Dragons with its awesome STABs. I also opted to add Electric Tera + Thunderpunch to hits stuff like Corviknight, Talonflame, Toxapex, Slowbro etc and is also boosted by Electric Terrain. I found it was kinda frail to run SD so I opted for Sub to screw over status, Sucker Punch, and ease prediction. Drain Punch and Lefties help it beat Rocky Helm and Sand chip and heal up from subs.
Speedy Specs Iron Bundle has STAB Hydro Pump on top of rain and another STAB in Freeze Dry to hit all water resists. Ice Beam is stronger/accurate if water types are all dead. Flip Turn pivots. It’s like a better SS Specs Kingdra. Disgusting.
Last I figured some defensive glue would be nice. I needed an electric immunity and hazard control. Iron Treads fit the bill, and it also benefits from the ET and can pivot with Volt Absorb. Neato.
https://pokepast.es/446da5b9f916f42d
Pelliper and Pinurchin enable the speed boosting abilities and boost STABs, and provide “defensive utility.” Also Urchin throws out hazards while you wait for it to die.
Barrasweka lost Flip Turn but it gained Rain boosted Water Terra type and it’s still fast as hell with Swift Swim. Oooooooof.
Speedy Iron Valliant seemed like a great fit for rain as it beats Tyranitar, Abamasnow and Dragons with its awesome STABs. I also opted to add Electric Tera + Thunderpunch to hits stuff like Corviknight, Talonflame, Toxapex, Slowbro etc and is also boosted by Electric Terrain. I found it was kinda frail to run SD so I opted for Sub to screw over status, Sucker Punch, and ease prediction. Drain Punch and Lefties help it beat Rocky Helm and Sand chip and heal up from subs.
Speedy Specs Iron Bundle has STAB Hydro Pump on top of rain and another STAB in Freeze Dry to hit all water resists. Ice Beam is stronger/accurate if water types are all dead. Flip Turn pivots. It’s like a better SS Specs Kingdra. Disgusting.
Last I figured some defensive glue would be nice. I needed an electric immunity and hazard control. Iron Treads fit the bill, and it also benefits from the ET and can pivot with Volt Absorb. Neato.
https://pokepast.es/446da5b9f916f42d
My initial thoughts after playing ~40 games
The Good
The Bad
The Broken
The Good
Orthworm @ Leftovers
Ability: Earth Eater
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Shed Tail
- Iron Defense
has been a set Ive really enjoyed using. It can 1v1 body press corv and is one of the few mons that can take on Baxcalibur, Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, and Kingambit while providing great utility. Very fond of this mon at the moment.
Ability: Earth Eater
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Shed Tail
- Iron Defense
has been a set Ive really enjoyed using. It can 1v1 body press corv and is one of the few mons that can take on Baxcalibur, Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, and Kingambit while providing great utility. Very fond of this mon at the moment.
Baxcalibur @ Life Orb
Ability: Thermal Exchange
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Glaive Rush
- Iron Head
Very hard mon to wall, can be tough for it to get enough of a boost to get going but if you can get a dd vs a weakened or unprepped team it is so brutal. Great shed tail recipient.
Ability: Thermal Exchange
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Glaive Rush
- Iron Head
Very hard mon to wall, can be tough for it to get enough of a boost to get going but if you can get a dd vs a weakened or unprepped team it is so brutal. Great shed tail recipient.
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Lowkey, holding any semblance of a tier together right now. Kind of like hippowdon but with better SpD, better utility moves in spikes+tspikes with usual annoying sub moves of chilling water, toxic, whirlwind, yawn, haze and body press and better abilities in both unaware and waterabsorb. Can be kind of a momentum sap but does so much in terms of checking mons. Go-to Palafin counter.
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Lowkey, holding any semblance of a tier together right now. Kind of like hippowdon but with better SpD, better utility moves in spikes+tspikes with usual annoying sub moves of chilling water, toxic, whirlwind, yawn, haze and body press and better abilities in both unaware and waterabsorb. Can be kind of a momentum sap but does so much in terms of checking mons. Go-to Palafin counter.
Palafin @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wave Crash
- Jet Punch
- Flip Turn
- Close Combat
Palafin is super lit. Scarf is my favorite set right now but Ive seen people use banded on rain which seems really cool as well. It takens nearly nothing to get Hero mode which is a great revenge killer and pivot mon. Zenheadbutt can be thrown in there over a water move but I normally feel like it needs all three different uses of its stabs to be effective as 328+scarf is not that fast with the instant boost that Booster Energy gives so many already fast mons.
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wave Crash
- Jet Punch
- Flip Turn
- Close Combat
Palafin is super lit. Scarf is my favorite set right now but Ive seen people use banded on rain which seems really cool as well. It takens nearly nothing to get Hero mode which is a great revenge killer and pivot mon. Zenheadbutt can be thrown in there over a water move but I normally feel like it needs all three different uses of its stabs to be effective as 328+scarf is not that fast with the instant boost that Booster Energy gives so many already fast mons.
The Bad
Cyclizar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Tail
Ive been using this set a lot to check things like volcorona and skeledirge while also being able to providing super needed spin. Decent regen pivot but Im finding its just a tab bit too frail to really work. Any shed tail set just seems suppar even with the regen knocking the 50% down to less than 20%. Ok mon, great moveset, great ability, great speed, sucky everything else.
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Tail
Ive been using this set a lot to check things like volcorona and skeledirge while also being able to providing super needed spin. Decent regen pivot but Im finding its just a tab bit too frail to really work. Any shed tail set just seems suppar even with the regen knocking the 50% down to less than 20%. Ok mon, great moveset, great ability, great speed, sucky everything else.
Houndstone @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Respects
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Who cares
let everything die, get up sand, click 300 bp move. Slow, weak outside of last respects that needs you to be way down for it to do significant damage, and needs sand to do anything. Can pull of some last mon jank, but I find it be pretty awful most of the time
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Respects
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Who cares
let everything die, get up sand, click 300 bp move. Slow, weak outside of last respects that needs you to be way down for it to do significant damage, and needs sand to do anything. Can pull of some last mon jank, but I find it be pretty awful most of the time
The Broken
Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Substitute
Def the most complained about mon rn and I can see why. I think its power is a little exaggerated but def very good. Sub cm is good, Specs is good, Scarfs not bad, Ive even been playing with WoW sets to some degree. Seems very good and just a tab overbearing. Would like to see how meta evolves to handle.
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Substitute
Def the most complained about mon rn and I can see why. I think its power is a little exaggerated but def very good. Sub cm is good, Specs is good, Scarfs not bad, Ive even been playing with WoW sets to some degree. Seems very good and just a tab overbearing. Would like to see how meta evolves to handle.
Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
My favorite mon to tera rn. Can OHKO defensive corv at +1, let that sink in. 105 base hp, 101 spd, 139 attack, 119speed is absolutely insane base spread. It doesnt get the absolute easiest time to set up but definitely doesnt have hard time. Great Shed tail recipient and absurd mon after a single dd, really loves the lack of any good fairy types.
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
My favorite mon to tera rn. Can OHKO defensive corv at +1, let that sink in. 105 base hp, 101 spd, 139 attack, 119speed is absolutely insane base spread. It doesnt get the absolute easiest time to set up but definitely doesnt have hard time. Great Shed tail recipient and absurd mon after a single dd, really loves the lack of any good fairy types.
Chien-Pao @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Sacred Sword
- Crunch
Have seen people use scarf and Life orb sd as well, I think scarf and band are superior sets to Sd, but its not bad at all. Ive seen people compare this to Gdarm and while I dont think its quite as crazy, I think it might be close. Adamant band hits 369 speed and 372 attack which is wild. Sword of ruin might be one of the braziest abilities that game freak could have come up with, does insane amounts of damage and is blazing fast. I could see this mon easily being one of, if not the first mon to go.
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Sacred Sword
- Crunch
Have seen people use scarf and Life orb sd as well, I think scarf and band are superior sets to Sd, but its not bad at all. Ive seen people compare this to Gdarm and while I dont think its quite as crazy, I think it might be close. Adamant band hits 369 speed and 372 attack which is wild. Sword of ruin might be one of the braziest abilities that game freak could have come up with, does insane amounts of damage and is blazing fast. I could see this mon easily being one of, if not the first mon to go.
I'm noticing lots of people on CB Scizor, so I'd like to offer a different set I've been using that has done me done well so far
Scizor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Trailblaze
- Close Combat
CB while strong means that if your Scizor is never hitting the opp with the one two combo that is (insert move here) + bullet punch. Of all the moves you can have for Scizor as coverage, I think trailblaze works best atm since it allows you to get speed on anything weak to it. Most of the time rock, and ground types usually are, it's basically just +1/2 Scizor enough of the time. tbh rocky helmet has really done a lot of work for me too to just punish attackers and get a bit of value out of a basically dead mon.
Scizor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Trailblaze
- Close Combat
CB while strong means that if your Scizor is never hitting the opp with the one two combo that is (insert move here) + bullet punch. Of all the moves you can have for Scizor as coverage, I think trailblaze works best atm since it allows you to get speed on anything weak to it. Most of the time rock, and ground types usually are, it's basically just +1/2 Scizor enough of the time. tbh rocky helmet has really done a lot of work for me too to just punish attackers and get a bit of value out of a basically dead mon.
while I havent really played much of the ladder yet, when it comes to bans, it's worth noting that just because something can be handled doesn't make it banworthy. The real answer to ask not "Can I handle this Pokemon?", it's "Can I handle this Pokemon in tandem with every other relevant threat? You can probably deal with Flutter Mane, but what about Roaring Moon, the Iron bros, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Meowscarada, Houndstone, etc, and all the old/returning threats, all at the same time?
If offensive teams can't break stall, some defensive mons need to get banned. If defensive teams can't survive heavy/hyper offense, some offensive mons need to be banned, usually more than one. Not necessarily because those mons were too much, the meta just hit an overflow point, and they happen to be the most problematic ones, and therefore the ones to skim off.
I've seen this happen at the start of pretty much every new gen or influx of new pokemon - the meta turns HO-centric, some offensive mons get banned, it calms back down. It's fine to have a meta that's offense-heavy - lord knows people'd find it more fun than one that's defense-heavy - but being that way due to non-HO teams not being worth it since their defensive advantages are rendered a negative tradeoff is definitely a red flag of a restrictive meta.
If offensive teams can't break stall, some defensive mons need to get banned. If defensive teams can't survive heavy/hyper offense, some offensive mons need to be banned, usually more than one. Not necessarily because those mons were too much, the meta just hit an overflow point, and they happen to be the most problematic ones, and therefore the ones to skim off.
I've seen this happen at the start of pretty much every new gen or influx of new pokemon - the meta turns HO-centric, some offensive mons get banned, it calms back down. It's fine to have a meta that's offense-heavy - lord knows people'd find it more fun than one that's defense-heavy - but being that way due to non-HO teams not being worth it since their defensive advantages are rendered a negative tradeoff is definitely a red flag of a restrictive meta.
Gotta say I'm a huge fan of lokix so far. The mon is probably going to be trash later on once the meta starts to develop more but its combination of great stab priority moves AND tinted lens is phenomenal. It's one of the few mons that have reliable priority that can ohko flutter mane and chien pao, two of the biggest offensive threats in the metagame currently with first impression snd sucker punch respectively. The amount of switches you force out from your opponent with first impression and sucker punch is great since you can easily use that knowledge of your opponent switching out to save their flutter man or chien pao to your advantage. This is the set I like to run:
Lokix @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Axe Kick
You can also run throat chop instead of axe kick to have a consistent reliable dark move but I like hitting stuff like Iron Treads super effectively.
Lokix @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Axe Kick
You can also run throat chop instead of axe kick to have a consistent reliable dark move but I like hitting stuff like Iron Treads super effectively.
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To add on to my previous post about trailblaze just going vroooooooooom on Scizor here's a replay of my opponent thinking I was choiced and me going zoom through his team. I really like the set personally too since with good predicts it really punishes Palafin and great tusk and just sometimes goes brrrrrrrrrrrr through teams for no reason.
Replay of me going brrrrr with this very set in low/mid ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1714776100
and so you don't need to scroll up here's the set; try it out it's fun
Scizor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Trailblaze
- Close Combat
Replay of me going brrrrr with this very set in low/mid ladder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1714776100
and so you don't need to scroll up here's the set; try it out it's fun
Scizor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Trailblaze
- Close Combat
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
I’d like to share this set I’ve been using, I was tired of Fluffer Mane always revenge killing IV and it worked really great as a lure and as a late game cleaner in general
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
I’d like to share this set I’ve been using, I was tired of Fluffer Mane always revenge killing IV and it worked really great as a lure and as a late game cleaner in general
Managed to play 45 games today when I should have been doing other things, which is a testament to how offensive the meta is. Started mucking with my team about 25 games in and got super tilted, but still felt like I got a decent read on the meta.
I'm on the record before the meta was available as thinking that Tera Blast would be the most broken aspect of Terastalize. I was dumb. Making offensive threats stronger with guaranteed coverage they might want is, in fact, kinda dumb, but taking offensive setup mons and letting them change their counters on the fly is dumber. Seriously, the fact that offensive `mons see the biggest defensive advantages of terastalizing is insane. The new `mons are fun enough on their own. Let's just ban this silliness and be done with it.
Despite the plain emphasis on offense, I don't think defense is dead. I saw a couple of good cores that made my life miserable, though I was pretty much entirely built to counter HO and was wildly unprepared for anything as pedestrian as
.
I also wanna shout out the Palafin set I was running again:
Palafin-Hero @ Punching Glove
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch/Taunt
I get the desire to do big damage with Wave Crash, but this thing doesn't need it. +1 Jet Punch hits stupid hard on its own, and having the extra longevity from Bulk Up defense boosts and Drain Punch recovery is huge. The only thing I ran today that I can see myself going back to long term if it doesn't get banned (not getting chipped by Rocky Helmet Garchomp alone makes Punching Glove worth it, though the extra power sure helps, too).
I'm on the record before the meta was available as thinking that Tera Blast would be the most broken aspect of Terastalize. I was dumb. Making offensive threats stronger with guaranteed coverage they might want is, in fact, kinda dumb, but taking offensive setup mons and letting them change their counters on the fly is dumber. Seriously, the fact that offensive `mons see the biggest defensive advantages of terastalizing is insane. The new `mons are fun enough on their own. Let's just ban this silliness and be done with it.
Despite the plain emphasis on offense, I don't think defense is dead. I saw a couple of good cores that made my life miserable, though I was pretty much entirely built to counter HO and was wildly unprepared for anything as pedestrian as
.I also wanna shout out the Palafin set I was running again:
Palafin-Hero @ Punching Glove
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch/Taunt
I get the desire to do big damage with Wave Crash, but this thing doesn't need it. +1 Jet Punch hits stupid hard on its own, and having the extra longevity from Bulk Up defense boosts and Drain Punch recovery is huge. The only thing I ran today that I can see myself going back to long term if it doesn't get banned (not getting chipped by Rocky Helmet Garchomp alone makes Punching Glove worth it, though the extra power sure helps, too).
Chi-Yu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Psychic
Idk why I haven't seen this thing much. Fire Blast is like a nuclear bomb against, like, 90% of the metagame.
Iron Bundle @ Heavy-Duty Boots/ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast
- Flip Turn
Iron Bundle is as good as Delibird is bad. 408 speed means it outspeeds Flutter Mane, therefore beating it on the switch. It also can sweep many teams on its own. Electric Terrain support makes booster energy optional, but Electric Terrain can boost the power of Electric Tera Blast.
Team:
https://pokepast.es/8e9fb960b213bc34
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Psychic
Idk why I haven't seen this thing much. Fire Blast is like a nuclear bomb against, like, 90% of the metagame.
Iron Bundle @ Heavy-Duty Boots/ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast
- Flip Turn
Iron Bundle is as good as Delibird is bad. 408 speed means it outspeeds Flutter Mane, therefore beating it on the switch. It also can sweep many teams on its own. Electric Terrain support makes booster energy optional, but Electric Terrain can boost the power of Electric Tera Blast.
Team:
https://pokepast.es/8e9fb960b213bc34
Waiting on iron bundle i see... After these guys are gone I can see iron bundle being really problematic
coming soon to a thread near you
Patience is a virtue, my friend. Iron Bundle and other Pokemon may very well be problematic, but it is early and opinions are shifting rapidly -- not even daily so much as hourly and battle-by-battle. We are in this for the long haul, so I am happy to hear your opinion on Iron Bundle or anything else you see problematic in this thread. I will be sure to read every post I can. Together, we can make SV OU the best metagame yet!
Can I ask about houndstone specifically? I get it's main power comes from last respects but I don't really see how it's on the same level as the rest of pokemon on here. I feel the meta is well equipped to handle it thanks to the amount of scarfers and ghost/dark types running around the tier that threaten houndstone. Also, houndstone is only really viable on sand teams and sand teams are facing a lot of competition from sun.
Yeah I think bundle will be more problematic down the road than it is right now.
In regards to pokemon I enjoy using though, Quaquaval is kinda nuts if it gets setup opportunities, and its a lot easier to set up Quaquaval than I thought it would be. All it takes it to find a favorable switch in and potentially sweep. I swept and got swept by Quaquaval once on the ladder today which goes to show that Quaquaval is not only super rewarding and fun to use, but something every team needs to be prepared for once OU settles and all the broken stuff is gone. (Also very good terastal abuser once it nets the speed boost.)
I'd argue that Houndstone is the first or second most problematic on this list. Last Respects is the strongest move in competitive Pokemon history later in games, and the accessibility of Houndstone is great considering how viable Sand is and its general presence being solid.
I would say that Houndstone projects to be broken in a similar vein to Dracovish last generation, but with a far better typing on its focal move -- Ghost as opposed to water -- with less immunities and resistances. This coupled with a metagame landscape conducive towards its success makes it laughably strong and restrictive.
Terastallizing is an affront to god for the reasons that have already been mentioned.
But Im wondering about booster energy. The item feels so strong on a high number of mons, but there's others like Scream Tail that are so trash that they cant be saved by booster energy. Does that mean that it can't be banned as an item? Can items even get banned?
But Im wondering about booster energy. The item feels so strong on a high number of mons, but there's others like Scream Tail that are so trash that they cant be saved by booster energy. Does that mean that it can't be banned as an item? Can items even get banned?
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