no, because freeze dry hits every single water absorb pokemon for super effective damage, meaning they can't reliably switch into it
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
The only water absorb pokemon that could beat freeze dry bundle is probably volcanion but thats a few months out if it even gets in so why even bother
252 SpA Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 121-144 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I don't know about that one.
A specially defensive Calm Mind Tera Rock Vaporeon with Tera Blast can acutally handle Iron Bundle.
0 SpA Vaporeon STAB Rock Tera Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Iron Bundle: 284-336 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Vaporeon STAB Rock Tera Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Iron Bundle: 284-336 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Can someone explain to me how spore works on Garganacl? Shouldnt it be immune to all status moves?
Did it come from a Toedscruel? Its ability ignores others' abilities when using status moves at the cost of moving last.
Was it Toedscruel? It’s ability ignores Gargancl’s.
You know we play for fingers around here.
Surprise surprise. Trick Room is pretty good in an HO heavy meta, especially one lacking in multi hit moves. All those fast broken threats? They can’t stop Trick Room.
1. Lead Sash Hatterene. Screws hazard stack and Taunt leads. Duo STABs are potent against everything but special walls and Steels. Healing Wish gets in a breaker for free, grabs momentum and heals if used mid game. Good Tera types include Normal (surprise ghost immunity) or Fire (surprise Grass and Ice resist for multi hit moves like Bullet Seed from Breloom or Icicle Spear from Cloyster.
Red Card Mimikyu. My favorite setter back from the pre-Melmetal days can do work in OU again. Also cannot be one shot because of Disguise except by multi-hit moves or Mold Breaker (both are rare). Therefore Trick Room is all but assured mid game, except for Taunt. Red Card forces out set up sweepers and cowardly shit hidding behind Substitute. Finally, good duo STABs a perfect for smacking offense, and Ghost type Curse for defensive mons, momentum and chip. Your Tera is best saved for another Mon, but in a pinch Tera Fairy Play Roughs can do some good damage.
Sash / Light Clay / Mental Herb Klefki. This guy got TR this Gen! How cool. Can set TR and go for momentum with Steel Beam. Can throw up priority screens, or Spikes. Foul Play. Just do whatever you want with it. Defensive Tera Dragon is good to resist Fire and Water and lose your Ground weakness.
2. Specs Eruption Torkoal, Flame Orb Hariyama, Bulky Loaded Dice Technician Breloom w/ Spore, Booster Energy Iron Hands, Specs / LO Sylveon, and Kingsgambit all love Trick Room.
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110/90 is above average special bulk. What.
Anyways, incredibly happy with the Palafin and Iron Bundle bans. Two mons with way too much of a presence and were difficult to manage. There is still plenty of strong threats but hopefully we'll see it less crazy.
That said, one mon I think will shoot up is Chien-Pao. A mon acknowledged as strong but has been kind of overshadowed in the early wave of crazy power, especially with mons acting as offensive checks like Bundle. Pao actually good movepool and i think now os the time it could be explored more. I definitely expect this to see more experimentation, assuming ladder doesn't pull a SwSh and not use the blatantly good pokemon.
With the bans of the offensive waters i also think we will see more Ting-Lu, or at least I hope so. It's such a sturdy pokemom that isn't passive at all, and has nice role compression. Not to mention how it can blanket check so much stuff.
I ran tera fire vaporeon with hdb just so i have a reliable switchin into funny basket ball penguin, im so glad its gone
Altho vaporeon is still not too bad of a choice for a wishpasser with tera but thats a whole other post for another time. For now though i think the only "viable" eevees for OU is just Sylveon and sun fire tera Leafeon (which is extremely underrated, i want to cover it some day)
These are the people we should put our metagame's hands in?
That is pretty awesome. Gotta give the meta months of testing. Tera typing could solve a lot of the problems if time is included.
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The Preview type has been addressed already as no different than the Gentleman's agreement you're already playing under by agreeing with another player to use Smogon rules instead of the Cart's (lack of) ban rules.
It's just a gentleman's agreement, it's a thing in a lot of competitive games.
People in Melee on Sheik ditto would for example sometimes gentleman no chain grabbing.
Even when you enter tournaments, you do usually fill up a sheet with your team, it's no different and it doesn't have to 100% emulate what only happens on console, it isn't the first time Smogon specifically has tempered with game mechanics anyway.
Sleep Clause could be taken as a gentleman's agreement that is forced out on the simulator for example.
Edit: Here have a vid on how they tampered with Gen 3 switches
People in Melee on Sheik ditto would for example sometimes gentleman no chain grabbing.
Even when you enter tournaments, you do usually fill up a sheet with your team, it's no different and it doesn't have to 100% emulate what only happens on console, it isn't the first time Smogon specifically has tempered with game mechanics anyway.
Sleep Clause could be taken as a gentleman's agreement that is forced out on the simulator for example.
Edit: Here have a vid on how they tampered with Gen 3 switches
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Ahhhhh yup. thanks
I haven't seen any Toedscruel anywhere yet. How is it compared to classic Tentacruel?
Toedscool is one of the funniest little guys they introduced. Every time I see it, I hear Squidward's foot steps sfx.
Slightly worse defensive typing, a wack ass ability, it's probably worse.
It does get both forms of spikes though, so that's neat.
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Grass/Ground is kind of an awful defensive typing and its base 100 Speed isn’t very meaningful because it’s geared towards utility and all of its status moves have negative priority. If it got Defog, it’d have a real niche as the only mon that can remove hazards in Gholdengo’s presence (besides Maushold, whose viability lies somewhere between “lol” and “lmao”). As it is now, its only real purpose is putting Gholdengo and Garganacl to sleep.
That's sad, its ability seems pretty neat. Funny how regular Tentacruel would deal with Gholdengo better than Toedscruel.
I would say boots are fairly mandatory, unless you're super dilligent about preventing rocks going up/clearing them. The ability to guarantee taking 1-2 hits due to multiscale is what makes ddnite so threatening. And clearing them is an uphill battle right now due to all the gholdengo running around.
Bro bulky teams were the only teams that could beat bundle. Nothing on offence could remotely take it stabs more than once, and everything other than Dragapult was outsped, so if it came in on almost anything on offence it was getting a kill, and probably ending the game if you didn't have a Dragapult. That's why it was fucked up.
I haven't posted on Smogon in years. Typically I'm anti ban on most things since I like a little bit of broken sh!t. But the MonkE...that guys gotta go. It's broken with Tera. It makes games so stressful and difficult to play around him if you're not running 3 burn/toxic mons. Hitting the guy for him just to take 20 because he Teras into a poison, steel, or water type is so stupid. In my opinion it is just as, if not more, restricting as Palafin and Flutterman were. Monkes gotta go...
been using it a bit as hypothetically compresses a spiker, spinner, and electric immunity into a single slot but it's a funky mon. Does get access to knock+ground stab as well, so can make progress access gholdengo as a spinner / alternatively can spore it thanks to the ability. But in a koko-less meta with a pair of other excellent ground spinners and multitude of spikers, it's hard to fit and feels like dead weight a lot.
While I agree it was funny seeing little robot-santa-mon one-shotting everything bar Blissey, I don't think I'll ever reminisce it's time in OU, it was too restrictive and it's best sets weren't even the choiced ones. I don't think this discussion has any place in this thread anymore.
On another note, I think ghouldengo is a superbly useful mon with a considerable presence, but my gut feeling says it should not be banned, I think with the meta shift cause by the latest bans will cause some shake-ups that may put it in a less-than-favorable position
On another note, I think ghouldengo is a superbly useful mon with a considerable presence, but my gut feeling says it should not be banned, I think with the meta shift cause by the latest bans will cause some shake-ups that may put it in a less-than-favorable position
The electric immunity is less of an upside in a meta where basically few good Electric types exist. Those Electric types that are available have 4x SE coverage moves (e.g. Ice Punch). Its weaknesses (Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice) are all extremely common in this metagame, and its resistances really offer nothing that other Ground Pokemon don't already provide.
Ok so I wrote about it earlier today, and then played with it all day and I was absolutely correct.
Dondozo @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Chilling Water
- Avalanche
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This thing just full-stops everything. Any physical attacker is actually worthless against this thing. You might think SleepTalk is too risky, but when not a single physical attacker can 2HKO you theres really no risk. This thing is an absolute monster that eats dragons and grounds alive. Avalanche does just enough damage to beat any dragon that crosses you.
Tera Fairy allows you to surprise electric attackers trying to go for a revenge kill with a neutral hit, and instead do hefty damage to them while also keeping yourself able to check things like the Donphan Paradoxes, Physical Valiant, and Chien-Pao. When paired with a good SpDef wall like Blissey, it just sits there and slowly wears down any physical attackers that cross your path.
Leftovers is good for avoiding some 3HKOs, but Heavy-Duty Boots might be better in this spike stack heavy meta.
Dondozo @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Chilling Water
- Avalanche
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This thing just full-stops everything. Any physical attacker is actually worthless against this thing. You might think SleepTalk is too risky, but when not a single physical attacker can 2HKO you theres really no risk. This thing is an absolute monster that eats dragons and grounds alive. Avalanche does just enough damage to beat any dragon that crosses you.
Tera Fairy allows you to surprise electric attackers trying to go for a revenge kill with a neutral hit, and instead do hefty damage to them while also keeping yourself able to check things like the Donphan Paradoxes, Physical Valiant, and Chien-Pao. When paired with a good SpDef wall like Blissey, it just sits there and slowly wears down any physical attackers that cross your path.
Leftovers is good for avoiding some 3HKOs, but Heavy-Duty Boots might be better in this spike stack heavy meta.
Not that dondozo isn't great, it is, but why are you running chilling water on an unaware mon. No physical attacker is breaking dondozo, so you're not really looking to switch out, so it seems pretty bad. I was finding sleep talk wasn't actually needed, when I was using it, so I was running waterfall, body press, curse rest with lefties. That was in the prior meta though so possible boots are better now.Ok so I wrote about it earlier today, and then played with it all day and I was absolutely correct.
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Chilling Water
- Avalanche
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This thing just full-stops everything. Any physical attacker is actually worthless against this thing. You might think SleepTalk is too risky, but when not a single physical attacker can 2HKO you theres really no risk. This thing is an absolute monster that eats dragons and grounds alive. Avalanche does just enough damage to beat any dragon that crosses you.
Tera Fairy allows you to surprise electric attackers trying to go for a revenge kill with a neutral hit, and instead do hefty damage to them while also keeping yourself able to check things like the Donphan Paradoxes, Physical Valiant, and Chien-Pao. When paired with a good SpDef wall like Blissey, it just sits there and slowly wears down any physical attackers that cross your path.
Leftovers is good for avoiding some 3HKOs, but Heavy-Duty Boots might be better in this spike stack heavy meta.
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