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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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i have a question
what's the point of running 252 speed on
when its still slow and all the bulky mons its outspeeds it does so uninvested besides uninvested great tusk or rotom wash i dont see the point.my set i use is
technician @ lifeorb tera:fighting
ADAMANT 252 hp 252 atk 4def
sworddance
mach punch
spore
bulletseed
the only reall benefit of breloom is that its the only physical setup sweeper that cam beat dodonzo
If you use rock tomb/bulldoze you can outspeed fast mons at -1.i have a question
what's the point of running 252 speed on
my set i use is
technician @ lifeorb tera:fighting
ADAMANT 252 hp 252 atk 4def
sworddance
mach punch
spore
bulletseed
the only reall benefit of breloom is that its the only physical setup sweeper that cam beat dodonzo
but if they're cloaked, or if you match up against the one person who still runs clear body dragapult, you're screwed anyway
Here's the point where I'd list all the mons that won and lost from the Chi-Yu ban, but I think pretty much everything won from it being gone. Even its biggest enabler, Corvikinght, arguably wins out more by it leaving since Chi-Yu can't use it as an entry point to unleash devastating offense. I guess Daushbun is another loser from it being gone, but iirc even Vertex said that it wasn't that good, so I'd say this result is a net positive for the meta.
I am glad that Annihilape is gone. Granted, I greatly struggle fighting this Pokemon compared to others, who seem to struggle less vs this Pokemon. I run mostly balanced teams and I could never quite beat it without sacrificing at least 1 Pokemon, which usually ended up being Corviknight, so the opponent's Chien-Pao / Dragonite would have a field day vs my teams, as would those cheesy Revival Blessing teams. I had to walk on a bit of a tightrope w/ my Iron Valiant in order to beat Dragonite / Revival Blessing. At the very least, I did learn quite a bit about the importance of positioning by doing this, so maybe it was a net positive after all.
Interesting that Espathra received more ban support than Chien-Pao. I kinda think it is uncompetitive as a match-up fish Pokemon, but then again, a lot of Pokemon are match-up fishy so maybe it is fine, idk. Chien-Pao is kinda good vs all teams tho and something like Rocky Helmet Corviknight isn't really a counter + can be stretched thin throughout a game staving off other big threats like Chomp, Great Tusks, etc. I guess Dondozo beats it, but I don't like using Dondozo over Pex as Pex's ability to pivot in and out more freely thanks to regenerator is quite strong. Also no cap, Chilling Water is kinda a useful move to put the opponent's Great Tusk, D-Nite, Quaqua, etc. in a bind. Ehh, guess we will have to wait and see.
I am glad that Annihilape is gone. Granted, I greatly struggle fighting this Pokemon compared to others, who seem to struggle less vs this Pokemon. I run mostly balanced teams and I could never quite beat it without sacrificing at least 1 Pokemon, which usually ended up being Corviknight, so the opponent's Chien-Pao / Dragonite would have a field day vs my teams, as would those cheesy Revival Blessing teams. I had to walk on a bit of a tightrope w/ my Iron Valiant in order to beat Dragonite / Revival Blessing. At the very least, I did learn quite a bit about the importance of positioning by doing this, so maybe it was a net positive after all.
Interesting that Espathra received more ban support than Chien-Pao. I kinda think it is uncompetitive as a match-up fish Pokemon, but then again, a lot of Pokemon are match-up fishy so maybe it is fine, idk. Chien-Pao is kinda good vs all teams tho and something like Rocky Helmet Corviknight isn't really a counter + can be stretched thin throughout a game staving off other big threats like Chomp, Great Tusks, etc. I guess Dondozo beats it, but I don't like using Dondozo over Pex as Pex's ability to pivot in and out more freely thanks to regenerator is quite strong. Also no cap, Chilling Water is kinda a useful move to put the opponent's Great Tusk, D-Nite, Quaqua, etc. in a bind. Ehh, guess we will have to wait and see.
What a wonderful thing to come back to
Now I can rise on the ladder because these mons are why I'm 1400 forever and not my own impatience and lack of lateral thinking r-right?
Now I can rise on the ladder because these mons are why I'm 1400 forever and not my own impatience and lack of lateral thinking r-right?
Dirge when its biggest check leaves the tier
Bulkarona, skeledirge to name a few. Let’s not try to get it banned when 3 mons just got banned today. Chien is fine imo
Just from my day of laddering.
Grimsnarl teams are definitely better now, nothings really keeping it from setting screens and parting shot is a lot less punishable
ceruledge is probably the best fire type now.
was Garg always running Tera ghost ? That feels new and I’m not sure what kills it in this meta he was taking some pretty heavy SE attacks for less than 50%
Seeing a lot more toxapex lately, hate pex but it’s nice to see it adjusting.
Defensive Tera is a lot more viable when it’s not Pokémon they 2HKO everything around.
Grimsnarl teams are definitely better now, nothings really keeping it from setting screens and parting shot is a lot less punishable
ceruledge is probably the best fire type now.
was Garg always running Tera ghost ? That feels new and I’m not sure what kills it in this meta he was taking some pretty heavy SE attacks for less than 50%
Seeing a lot more toxapex lately, hate pex but it’s nice to see it adjusting.
Defensive Tera is a lot more viable when it’s not Pokémon they 2HKO everything around.
I think Annihilape might eventually get a second chance as more mons become available, like Melmetal in Gen 8.
It will, and it should, probably be suspected later on after these initial bans. In general, physical attackers are easier to check thanks to things like iron defense, rocky helmet, flame body, will o' wisp etc., and if you've noticed there are generally more physically defensive mons walking around compared to specially defensive ones. Although with Choice Banded Terastallized Pao it feels like you're never bulky enough to take 2 hits...
I feel like Espathra's still really easy to snowball with if your opponent isn't packing Ting-Lu (or Kingambit if Tera Fairy) given it can just fuck around with Protect and CM until Stored Power is stupidly strong and drops everything not named Dark type. Then again, considering that Cyclizar got the axe (thank God), we not have a situation where it's honestly strapped for moveslots. It needs CM and Stored Power on bulky setup sets, and definitely appreciates Roost, but now it also wants Protect or Substitute so it can scout and/or secure easier setup, and of course you'll need to fit in Dazzling Gleam/Tera Blast to beat Darks. I'm not gonna pretend that it isn't warping in its own right, but I can safely say that it's pretty neutered w/o Shed Tail.
Chien-Pao, on the other hand, was borderline stupid and stays borderline stupid. With Adamant sets cropping up, more and more of its soft checks like Dondozo and Iron Hands are gonna start having a hard time against it. Dark STAB off 177 Atk with Tera is always gonna be a terror to handle. Even then, it's not Chi-Yu; you can switch into it with measures like the aforementioned Hands and Dozo, but even shit like Rotom-W, Bulky Volc and the rare (and really not that good) Quavo can come in on Ice Spinner, whereas all the Fighters and Ting-Lu in the tier can handle Crunches pretty well. I wouldn't particularly mind seeing it quickbanned, but it seems like one of those 'mons where it's not objectively clear whether it's actually that busted or not. I'd guess that we'll see a Chien suspect test in the coming months or when Home drops and we get shit like Sneasler, Hamurott, and Harcanine, but until then, I'd say it's fine, but just barely fine.
If we ever get shit like Lele and Blace back (or if Tera gets banned) then absolutely Annihilape should be tested again. But then again, if those massive Special Attackers don't come back to absolutely fuck it over, we'll still have to contend with the same incredible bulk that broke it in the first place. Personally, I've sustained enough head trauma at the beefy hands of the monke that I'd be apprehensive to bring it back after home, but only time will tell.
You should still invest EVs into speed for Breloom since there are still speed tiers Breloom can outspeed. Like Bulky Dragonite or Defensive Rotom Wash.i have a question
what's the point of running 252 speed on
my set i use is
technician @ lifeorb tera:fighting
ADAMANT 252 hp 252 atk 4def
sworddance
mach punch
spore
bulletseed
the only reall benefit of breloom is that its the only physical setup sweeper that cam beat dodonzo
Wow, how did you know my Birthday was Tuesday?
I think we'll at least get enough from home its worth a second chance. we're getting a huge number of flying/psychic/fairies.
Zapdos, Typshlosion, braviary, enamorous, to an extent gren, mew, Torn, G-moltres, Magearna, hoopa are all potentially OU viable and are returning.
Plus G-slowbro might be able to 1v1 it if not rage fist unboosted, but idk.
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Ceruledge being the best fire type is kind of a leap, you still have Volcarona, Iron Moth, Skeledirge, Slither Wing, even Toarkoal is arguable as overall more solid fire mons. Ceruledge being a great fire type while also being an answer into all but Skeledirge is a boon, but I fail to see why it is suddenly THAT good.
EDIT I even forgot Cinderace, who is likely the best fire type imo
Serious question, if your Team gets bodied by Parting Shot Grimmsnarl, why no Clear Amulet ?(+Tauros or Brick Break Mon)
Also I read too commonly that Garganacl is oppresive. Run Covert Cloak people, it is a good item.
Also I read too commonly that Garganacl is oppresive. Run Covert Cloak people, it is a good item.
Finally, Nemo is fucking banned. It might be a bit late but I think ou can properly celebrate new year now. I love how the council felt the exact same way about Chi Yu as regular users do. Everyone here thinks that little fucker is broken and every single council member felt that way too. Before, I thought that Lizard was only broken because of shed tail and I didn't even know that thing had regenerator at the time during the last survey and I'm glad to see it gone. I am surprised to see the monkey banned though then again I never have a problem in it because I spam my trusty rocky helmet Garchomp
Should have just put 'does this even need an explanation' in the part about Chi Yu in the ban announcement thread
Meh I was kinda referring to it in an offensive standpoint and I still stand by it being the best offensive fire type (slither wing isnt a fire type)
and again that was just what I saw in the 10-20 matches I’ve played today
personally my problems haven’t been with salt cure. But garg tera typing into one of 4 types and just eating everything you can throw at it
any advice on dealing with cm hatterene? i have a hard time keeping it in check because it can't be toxiced, making it feel like the only way to deal with it is to trick scarf or to hit it REALLY hard. i might be missing something though.
Sources confirm that Chien Pao is currently being searched by the internacional police for multiples war crimes, tax fraud AND evasion
Ceruledge is pretty mid and should honestly be UU. It's nowhere near Volcarona and Iron Moth as fire type wallbreaker/sweeper. And Skeledirge is almost as good offensively thanks to Torch Song, and Skeledirge is a great Tera abuser.
If you want a physical fire type wallbreaker. use Cinderace.
If your on a balance/stall team, you have to knock off her leftovers, then salt cure her, or removing her boost with pex and play chicken for 10000000 turns untill she does something wrong
if your on an offensive team, hit it with with the hardest supereffective hit you have and pray it kills (gunk shot from libero cinderace, gigaton hammer from the rare tinkaton, the extemly rare poison jab from iron valiant, brelooms max roll bullet seed) those kinds of things
i still dont see the piint in reference to bulky dnite because if it tries to setup you can just spore it and sd into mach
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