1. Shed Tail Banned, Cyc comes back 100%. It's a UU Pokemon at most without ST, I feel.
2. Same thing with Hound. LR gets banned, Hound comes back 100%, though I'm pretty sure it'll be and NU Pokemon.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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2. Same thing with Hound. LR gets banned, Hound comes back 100%, though I'm pretty sure it'll be and NU Pokemon.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught in Rain: 174-205 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
(fixed)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 144-169 (37.8 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 162-192 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught on a critical hit: 72-85 (18.9 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 96-114 (25.2 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. Bulletproof Chesnaught: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 67-79 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 152-182 (40 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 228-270 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 230-272 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-217 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 84-100 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- 13.4% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 124-147 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 166-196 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 16 Atk Quaquaval Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 192-226 (50.5 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 16 Atk Quaquaval Aqua Step vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 63-75 (16.5 - 19.7%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 292-348 (76.8 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 142-168 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 316-376 (83.1 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 284-336 (74.7 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 199-235 (52.3 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Breloom Bullet Seed vs. Bulletproof Chesnaught: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 123-145 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 61-72 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252 Atk Breloom Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 246-289 (64.7 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 211-249 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 99-117 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 162-192 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught on a critical hit: 72-85 (18.9 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 96-114 (25.2 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. Bulletproof Chesnaught: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Libero Cinderace U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 67-79 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 152-182 (40 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 228-270 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 230-272 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-217 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 84-100 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- 13.4% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 124-147 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 166-196 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 186-219 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 16 Atk Quaquaval Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 192-226 (50.5 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 16 Atk Quaquaval Aqua Step vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 63-75 (16.5 - 19.7%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 292-348 (76.8 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 142-168 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 316-376 (83.1 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 284-336 (74.7 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 199-235 (52.3 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Breloom Bullet Seed vs. Bulletproof Chesnaught: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 123-145 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 61-72 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252 Atk Breloom Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 246-289 (64.7 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 211-249 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 99-117 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Bro don't be like that, I mean, sure it helps stall a lot, but it also breaks stall HARD, and that is what has let it stay in OU, is a better stall mon AND stallbreaker than lando, and of course, I really appreciate its ability to break stall :D
For real tho, its a good mon, status absorber, durable, possible defogger that can beat Gholdengo, has taunt, and even has a better desing than lando
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Chesnaught: You forgot Tera Water.
Gliscor: I am a Stall enjoyer in fact. The reason I don't want this guy in is because he got Spikes in PLA. Its a Spikes setter hard to wear down for defensive teams, so that's a no in my book. Also, he makes Alola Muk's life miserable more than any other Mon (except Band Ice Punch of course).
Also, forgot to mention one Mon I want back in a Heatran meta: Alolan Golem! That stupid fire frog will have to Tera to avoid death.
Bro, chesnaught, magearna, hisuian samurrot, gliscor, any more mons with spikes? Holy fuck the hazard meta is gonna get so crazy, depending on the amount of defoggers we get, we maybe have to start looking at Gholdengo
also added the tera water, my b
I do wonder if the Spike spam is deliberate or just a haphazard balance decision. We lost a couple of the "easy choice" mons for Spikes like Ferrothorn, but it's not like Hazard stacking matters that much in VGC and I believe it's meh in BSS due to smaller team size. Defog went from a wide distribution move to pretty limited on-top of Gholdengo, and in general while Hazard Removal has good users, they're relatively small in number so far.
Gliscor is different to others. He is the only Spikes user that recovers passively, without doing anything. Other hazard setters can be statused or knocked, Gliscor has to be actually killed to stop launching Spikes. Defensive teams struggle to do that. If only we had a better Magic Bounce user...
Hatterene @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Mystical Fire
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
Here is your better Magic Bounce User, it lures gliscor, also counters chesnaught, and Magearna needs to fight instead of spam, you can even change Psyshock for Draining Kiss/Dazzling Gleam to counter the new sammurrot
now give me hahas
If Gliscor gets to the point where Tera Ice Hatterene is legitimately viable just to deal with it (and lando) I think that might be the point where we stop and ask if Gliscor is truly okay.
i lowkey miss having all the legendaries in OU whenever it's the start of a new generation. i know some of them are overly obnoxious and others objectively unhealthy and straining on the metagame, but to me, it's just not the same without them. maybe i've just gotten so used to having shit like zapdos, lati twins, heatran, genies, tapus, UBs, melmetal, etc. in the meta but i always hate to see them go whenever dexit cuts take place for a new game
with that being said, i desperately hope we don't see ferrothorn return to this metagame without massive distribution to defog and rapid spin. i shouldn't really have to explain why, ferrothorn/gholdengo hazard stacking cores are what keeps me up at night thinking about. unless we ban gholdengo beforehand then i'd like it to sit this generation out for once
true but you also have to ask yourself as to why anyone would run tera ice on a slow, bulky pokemon whose goal is to repeatedly come in and block hazards
In the first days of SV I actually used Tera Flying Scarf Trick + Morning Sun Espeon with enough EVs to outspeed Jolly Breloom, with the rest dumped in bulk. It had limitations, such as having to commit to be the Tera Mon almost always and not hitting hard enough, but it did the job, my side of the field almost never had hazards.
Plus torn can go tera electric to beat zapdos and shed weaknesses so that could be problematic. Torn does have Z Nasty Plot in natdex though remember.Yeah this one is hard to judge, it's still a really good mon and would be healthy for the tier but Tera can help it offensively and defensively, allowing any team to easily fit a bulky Regenerator of any type. It keeps Nasty Plot and although accuracy is still an issue, it will be tough to switch into and this will be worsened by Tera. I've seen it's the best mon in Natdex right now so I wouldn't be surprised if this will apply to post-Home OU, too - and whilst I'm not convinced yet, it is possible that Tera will be the thing that pushes Torn over the edge.
Also I miss Victini being able to be able to smash through stuff with good predictions and being able to just give pex the middle finger by using final gambit.
Gliscor and Ferrothorn are missed, as they don't need roost for recovery and can be insane glue mons that can double as premier offensive threats. Bulky Offense/Balance definitely misses these two
This is where transfer move removal makes me sad, because now I can't suggest memes like Skill Swap Defog Mew. Set up with Cosmic Power while Gliscor takes the free turns to throw Hazards or SD, then once you have enough, Steal his Poison Heal, and then Defog as he runs from his built-up Toxic Counter or sacs himself, while Demon Mew is set up to throw a (not necessarily useful but funny) Stored Power or Body Press (doubly funny if Gliscor Poisoned you earlier). I'm also just on a high for weird tech like SS after throwing it on a Lure set in Gen 8 for Victini.
Real Talk though, I always hate mons like Gliscor who undo progress just by existing, not even necessarily having to make the right moves against the opponent. Stall isn't fun to fight but I can at least respect the need for positioning and read ability to keep the cores intact that long, Gliscor just does or does not sit on something and then does whatever it wants while doing so.
Genuine question: How would Tera preview really help? The controversial element of Tera is its ability to give mons ways to get around their checks, either through an offensive or defensive Tera. Seeing the type at the start of the battle doesn't give you the ability to change your own tera types to counter theirs, and in the end of the day it still comes down to whether you have the right checks or not. Sure, it would allow for players to make better switches/predictions knowing their tera, but the unpredictability is still there, and the mon that abuses tera will probably still break through if it has the right tera. Just because I know they have a psychic volcarona doesn't mean I can prevent my Clodsire from dying to two psychics, nor does knowing they have a tera water garg allow me to deal with it any better. While it would limit defensive teras somewhat, they can still play mindgames on whether they'll tera that turn or not, and offensive teras don't care anyways.
Maybe i'm dumb idk what do yall think
Maybe i'm dumb idk what do yall think
Now that y'all brought up Gliscor, I hope he gets added in the DLC, it's been years since he's been in a main game (Excluding the horrid BDSP remakes) and he'd been a nice addition to Gholdy's reign 
No you're not dumb but this is a very good point, but Tera preview allows you to see each of the opposing mons tera type. Real life scenario, you see Great Tusk switching in on Rotom-W, realistically Tusk can't do much on Rotom-W unless it's offensive CB. But lets say you see lefties (most likely a defensive set) you know from team preview that this tusk has Tera Water. You know the user is switching in to Tera Water, so there's no use going for the Hydro Pump OHKO. It changes that guess work factor completely where you see a switch which seems to be in your favor but now with preview you know it's a complete bluff and it's better to go with a different move.
you are asking us if we "want"it?
are you suggesting that it may stay banned even if shed tail gets banned?
without shed tail this pokemon is almost useless in OU.
both great tusk and iron thread outclass it as pokemon with access to knock off+rapid spin, and quaquaval outclasses it as a pokemon with access to rapid-spin+ u-turn, and meowscarada out classess it as a pokemon with knock off+u-turn.
sure, it may be the only pokemon in the metagame with access to all 3 of these moves at once, but this barely gives it a niche.
aside from speed the rest of its stats are below average at best.
it's bulk is almost non-existent(even gollurk is bulkier than this thing).
its attacks.....aren't going to help it all that much.
it is doomed to drop from OU, you should be asking this question to the UU forums since they will be the ones who will have to deal with it if it gets unbanned.
I'm counting with dlcs adding more Pokémon like in crown tundra.
Now to return to the current meta, I'm going to be honest, the "defogless" meta looks like a good thing to me. For me it was an outdated move that made the game less interesting. My issue with defog is that it removes hazards on both sides, something that resets progress for both players and kinda limits the own defog user in teambuilding and created silly exchanges where the SR setter and the defoger were looking to PP stall each other. On top on that the move isn't even consistent with itself since it removes the hazards on both sides but it just removes the opponent screens. Now, even if rapid spin buff, mortal spin, tidy up (trades losing your hazards for two buffs so it is a way to make progress) and court change are alternatives, we have an issue with the distribution of those vs the distribution of possible hazard setters, but if I had to pick between bringing back the old defog distribution or give more mons access to the alternatives I would pick the latter since I believe that it is better for the game.
We talking about possible additions from home? Well I wanna focus on the Hisui mons
And there you go thanks for watching, other than those I'm excited for Hoopa-U, getting to unleash those BandTeraDark Hyperspace Fury will be lit. Also fun tip, if you really hate rain then in the Home-Meta use Tera Fire Volcanion, between being immune to water being very bulky it also resists common coverage like Ice and Grass Rain teams will hate you especially because those RainBoosted Steam Eruptions.
Edit2: Added Braviary, thanks to WillhemTheOkay for quoting me otherwise I had forgotten about Braviary. Added Zoroark as well, think I'm done this time.
I can see both Samurott and Decidueye having a niche in OU, Owl has a good match up against both S Rank mons and Otter can set up hazard while hitting hard thanks to sharpness, poor Typhlosion though, it got the worse of the bunch, still I think it will be decent in lower tiers since Fire/Ghost is a solid combo
Forgot this one, Braviary is looking hella fine as well. You have a choice between Immediate Nuclear power with SF+Orb or Unresisted Damage with Tinted Lens, my thoughts ? TLens is the better one. My logic is with TLens its like a side graded Espartha, you trade the Speed Boost for not being resisted by anything, you have a psychic which boost your speed, you Calm Mind once to get some initial power and If any Darks come you Tera and kill them. Is not as good but I can see it being a scary threat with right conditions. Here's a set I thought of:
Braviary-Hisui (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 120 Def / 136 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Esper Wing
- Tera Blast
- Stored Power
Braviary-Hisui (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 120 Def / 136 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Esper Wing
- Tera Blast
- Stored Power
Forgot about this one as well, geez. Zoroark is a straight up upgrade from the original, so many mindgame will make it a really annoying mon to fight, pity it got nerfed back to it's original BST but it's still a decent mon to use
Goodra I think it's borderline broken. It can't be CritHaxed or poisoned so unless you have a Garga or a Ting-Lu I think AA+Body Press set can be ridiculous.
Goodra-Hisui @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Acid Armor
- Body Press
- Draco Meteor
- Rest
Goodra-Hisui @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Acid Armor
- Body Press
- Draco Meteor
- Rest
It's a better Hawlucha, nuff said. Even then SD sets are looking very dangerous with that combo of DireClaw+Poison Touch.
It's fucking stupid, it doesn't has a single safe switch in even stuff which could in Theory be a Counter/Check like Corviknight can get wrecked by TeraNormalFacade or GutsBoosted Coverage. Might not get banned but I think it will be a great mon A- minimum
Even after LRespects gets the boot I believe it will be a decent mon. Water/Ghost is a strong stab combo and resists take a hefty chunk if it's Adap or is under Rain, it has a choice of being a ridiculous strong Wallbreaker (Special or Physical) with Adap+Tera or a rain sweeper so I think has some decent viability
What a peculiar mon, I don't know what to make of it, I'm thorn between a possible Contrary set or a special sweeper, but I think the special one will be better mainly because it lacks coverage and needs to go mixed or go Tera to not get stopped by the Unaware mons.
Very strong mon, wish it was a little faster though, Stone Axe alone give it a niche but Scarf FCutter sets will be a funny meme
I think it will be another decent mon. It has two great abilities to wither give it another immunity or extra physical bulk also it has access to CalmMind+Stored Power combo, I can see it having a niche in OU since it looks a good abuser of Tera
Haha, BandTeraRockHeadSmash go brrr. It hates Chomp and Tusk but it's the only Rock Head mon who's able to take full advantage of it's ability you can even pick some priority to go with it
Hustle sets look scary, but, missing in a critical moment is even scarier, I think Cholo will be the better ability because of that, could be wrong, still will be a good thanks to physical Quiver Dance, still you can't touch Dengo and Dirge without Tera so that might detract it from being too good, also it has defog so it can do it a pinch.
Better than the original since you don't get stopped by Grounds but it still Electrode so unless you want some fast screens or want to blow stuff up with TeraGrassChroloblast I don't think it will make waves.
Garbage, don't bother, just use normal Avalugg.
Poor Qwil, in my opinion all it's missing is flipturn and it could be a good pivot, it has a decent bulk, workable speed, hazards and a decent defensive type, maybe in the DLC's or future versions.
And there you go thanks for watching, other than those I'm excited for Hoopa-U, getting to unleash those BandTeraDark Hyperspace Fury will be lit. Also fun tip, if you really hate rain then in the Home-Meta use Tera Fire Volcanion, between being immune to water being very bulky it also resists common coverage like Ice and Grass Rain teams will hate you especially because those RainBoosted Steam Eruptions.
Edit2: Added Braviary, thanks to WillhemTheOkay for quoting me otherwise I had forgotten about Braviary. Added Zoroark as well, think I'm done this time.
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It is worth mentioning that a lot of PLA movepool additions did not carry over to SV; namely Recover on Gardevoir, Mesprit and Cresselia, Ice Beam on Gardevoir, Mach Punch on Lucario, Spikes itself on Hisuian Decidueye. So there is no guarantee that Spikes would carry over to Gliscor in a future game because of PLA.Chesnaught: You forgot Tera Water.
Gliscor: I am a Stall enjoyer in fact. The reason I don't want this guy in is because he got Spikes in PLA. Its a Spikes setter hard to wear down for defensive teams, so that's a no in my book. Also, he makes Alola Muk's life miserable more than any other Mon (except Band Ice Punch of course).
Also, forgot to mention one Mon I want back in a Heatran meta: Alolan Golem! That stupid fire frog will have to Tera to avoid death.
Gonna jump in with the Home discussion so I’m just gonna talk about what I think will be good, viable, or broken.
The Broken
(Single)
The four horsemen of the OU apocalypse, no shot they are staying. In fact GF in their infinite wisdom decided to buff them. Lando-I has always been broken but now it has NP AND Tera to work with. Magearna gained two potential checks in Skele and Clod. This is meaningless in Mag terms. Clod is just WP Stored Power bait, Skele can barely take on Specs or Stored Power. This is all without even factoring in Tera which makes it even more busted than it already is. Spectrier was never designed for Gen 9. Originally, Spect had no coverage, but they decided to give this thing Draining Kiss cuz f u. Garg is a thing but Spect has always ran Sub-CM sets. Darkfu had its main STAB nerfed, but it doesn’t matter when it also gained SD. Clefable and Mandi not being in the tier is just additional fuel to the fire.
These two will most likely get banned (the latter assuming Tera doesn’t get banned). Enam has 135 SpA, 106 Sped, and perfect coverage. Nothing wants to switch into Mblast/EP/Mystical/Psychic at once. Valiant on crack. The only thing I can see balancing this thing is the speed and its rock weakness, but the coverage is insane. Eleki was balanced by the simple fact of not having any coverage. Eleki is an example of a mon that was never meant to be in Gen 9. Tera eliminates its one weakness and makes it unwallable.
The Staples
The OGs of SS OU. They will def be one of the best mons in the meta. Torn lost Knock and Defog, but gained Bleakwind Storm, an improvement from Hurricane. Nasty Plot, Boots, and AV are all improved by Tera. Whatever it is to boost its dmg or to eliminate its Rock weakness. Tran is Tran. Sets Rocks, is impossible to fully-counter, and checks a bunch of stuff. Tera enhances its dmg output and defensive prailess. Ghold, Skele, and non-Fighting STAB Valiant are new victims for it.
(RS)
Torn-T losing Knock means Zapdos can now consistently switch into it. Electric/Flying STAB is stronger than ever, especially with Tera. Lando-T got big nerfs and competition with Tusks, but it will be a top pick regardless. It received Taunt, letting it act as a disruptior on top of its old roles from last Gen. People forget about how much role compression it has. Ground/Electric immune, Pivot, Rock setter, and just being a glue. Tera potential consists of Tera Flying, Water, Fairy, etc, depending on what it is tasked on checking. Watershifu was already great, but the addition of SD will change the way it is played. Its presence will demand more bulky waters and Future Sight support from the Slowkings. Sneasler is a mon with 130/120 offenses, a broken signature move, and Poison Touch U-Turn. It being a fighting type adds insult to injury. G-King, Pex, and Ghold seem to be the best counterplay to it as they resist both of its STABs while being immune to Poison. Dire Claw however, has a 30% chance to para or put them to sleep, limiting the safest switch-in to be Ghold. Its role seems to be a cleaner that chips down teams in the early-to-mid game similarly to Zera last gen.
G-King gets a massive buff with Chilly Reception. Its also the perfect Valiant check. OHKOs with Sludge Bomb, its SpD is high enough to eat a Sball, and Regen. Its also still a pain in the ass to switch into, even less so with the Recovery move nerfs. It might also be the only thing that can “check Enamorus” among other things. Be prepared for Glowking/Watershifu/Pult cores to arise again for the second gen in a row. Volcanion is slept on hard whenever Home is discussed. All you need is one word, Tera Water Volcanion. Makes its Steam Eruption busted, removes its sr weakness, and removes its ground weakness. Plus, with rain becoming even stronger with the new additions, Volcan will be an important part of staving off rain or being a big part of it. Speaking of Rain, Basculegion is the next big rain abuser since Mega-Pert and Barra. The perfect speed tier for abusing Swift Swim, powerful Wave Crashes, decent enough bulk, and priority. Outside of Rain it can be Crawdaunt 2.0 and abuse CB Adaptability boosted Wave Crash. Also Tera Water is broken. Rilla might have been nerfed but Grassy Terrain is still the best one. Think about how many mons would benefit from a good setter. Tusks, Skele, Meow, Gambit, Ghold, Pex, Dozo, Volc, Moth, Garg, etc. Even if it ends up losing Grassy Glide, it still has boosted Wood Hammers, U-Turn, and Knock Off. Tera also can shed off its defensive typing or make its STABs even better.
The Good
Enamo-T is underrated. With the same sky high SpA with great bulk and a fantastic defensive typing to boot. Fairy/Flying resists and is immune to some important types, those being Ground, Fighting, Dragon, Grass, and Dark. With CM + Three Attacks, it is essentially a fatter Hatt without Magic Bounce. Goltres with Tera + Screens is a beast, and plus its in a meta with less Toxic, No Koko, and No Clef. With how much offense was buffed this gen, Goltres may find itself to be OU this gen rather than just being good in OU. Hisuian Samu shows alot of promise with its new signature move. An offensive move that sets spikes. It is also not to shabby offensively or defensively. Packing strong STABs boosted by Sharpness, SD, and Sucker Punch. Its bulk is not good but the defensive typing lets it get 1-2 switch ins vs Ghold, Gren, and Gambit to get off a layer of spikes. I could see either SD, Sash lead, or AV becoming a thing. Hustle historically has been unreliable, so I don’t see it being the big thing. Instead it will be a staple on Sun teams with its speed tier, Victory Dance, and strong STABs + coverage. Sleep Powder is just extra on an already offensive threat. Tera Fighting for stronger CC or Tera Ice to completely eliminate Amoonguss or Zapdos.
The Niche
Tera Dark CB Hyperspace Fury is something out of nightmares. This shit has Pao’s atk stat (factoring in Swords of Ruin) with even better Dark STAB. No Tapus and just the minimal amount of fairies in the tier makes its STAB very spammable, Tera Dark also removes its 4x U-Turn weakness and lets it resist Dark. However it is still slow and not that bulky, so it won’t be a staple. This next one is for you 1DLK. Ches is Ferro but with recovery, and an immunity to Sball, Sludge Bomb, Focus Miss, Pyro, and Gyro. With Tera Steel, Fairy, or Water, it could act as a check to Pult and Ghold. Its defensive typing as a whole lets it check Tusks, Meow, Gambit, Watershifu, etc. Less fairies, less Defog distribution, and no Ferro has also helped Ches immensely, There is a possibility of it having a worthwhile niche in OU. The other Grass/Fighting starter. Hisuian Decid looks to be a niche Defogger. The biggest thing about it is its a Defogger that beats Ghold AND doesn’t rely on Boots. MiR and Sball fail to 2HKO Decid, meanwhile it threatens with Scrappy Triple Arrows. Its not just a glorified anti-Ghold Defogger, its a Defogger that resists rocks, has U-Turn, has Knock, checks Meow, Tusks, and Gambit. Also Triple Arrows is a broken move with a high crit chance, dfse drop, and a small flinch chance. If it was on an already good fighting type and not on Decid, they’d skyrocket or get banned.
This is not G-Zap’s gen. Defog distribution is much lesser and its duty of punishing Defog is already taken by Ghold who also is a great check to it. It still has a role of punishing Tusks and Lando, but its niche is not much in demand. Better Flamigo everyone. Thundy-T is gonna return to its standard role as a rain abuser. With Tera Flying it can now use Flying STAB, and it also punishes the bulky waters that will arise due to the new rain abusers. Ursaluna seems promising, but the lack of defensive utility and its competiton with Offensive Tusks makes things rough. The increased use of spikes cuts down its amazing bulk. I could still see this thing as a viable slow wallbreaker that is immune to ghost and electric and absorbs status. Basculegion-F is another new rain abuser. Water/Ghost has very few switch ins. It has to compete with its male-counterpart, but it will find a niche to separate from it.
Other Thoughts
-Ghost competition is way to abundant for H-Typhlosion to find a place.
-Hisuian Avalugg sucks lmao
-H-Arcanine is too slow for OU, however UU or RU can appreciate a decently fast Head Smash mon.
-Overqwil seems promising in UU or RU, not sure if it will find a niche in OU.
-H-Electrode sucks, but it will be good in NU maybe.
-H-Goodra doesn’t have alot of defensive utility to reach OU but you never know.
-Cress got simultaneously buffed and nerfed. It seems too Tera reliant but perhaps with Trick Room or Scarf Trick Lunar Dance sets, it could find something in the meta.
-Hisuian-Braviary seems like a threatening snowballing machine with Specs Tinted Lens Esper Wing……In RU.
As for mons that could be unbanned
-Ban Last Respects and bring back the Hound.
-Keep Flutter Mane, Palafin, Chi-Yu, and Bundle far away from OU.
-Espa would be broken regardless unless they ban Tera.
-Pao could have a chance of staying with the increased power level and the addition of Tran and Watershifu to keep it in check.
-If the issue was Espa the whole time, then Cyclizar might have a chance to stay.
-Ape is the most likely to stay besides Hound. The increased power level and Torn might be able to power through the monkey.
The Broken
The four horsemen of the OU apocalypse, no shot they are staying. In fact GF in their infinite wisdom decided to buff them. Lando-I has always been broken but now it has NP AND Tera to work with. Magearna gained two potential checks in Skele and Clod. This is meaningless in Mag terms. Clod is just WP Stored Power bait, Skele can barely take on Specs or Stored Power. This is all without even factoring in Tera which makes it even more busted than it already is. Spectrier was never designed for Gen 9. Originally, Spect had no coverage, but they decided to give this thing Draining Kiss cuz f u. Garg is a thing but Spect has always ran Sub-CM sets. Darkfu had its main STAB nerfed, but it doesn’t matter when it also gained SD. Clefable and Mandi not being in the tier is just additional fuel to the fire.
These two will most likely get banned (the latter assuming Tera doesn’t get banned). Enam has 135 SpA, 106 Sped, and perfect coverage. Nothing wants to switch into Mblast/EP/Mystical/Psychic at once. Valiant on crack. The only thing I can see balancing this thing is the speed and its rock weakness, but the coverage is insane. Eleki was balanced by the simple fact of not having any coverage. Eleki is an example of a mon that was never meant to be in Gen 9. Tera eliminates its one weakness and makes it unwallable.
The Staples
The OGs of SS OU. They will def be one of the best mons in the meta. Torn lost Knock and Defog, but gained Bleakwind Storm, an improvement from Hurricane. Nasty Plot, Boots, and AV are all improved by Tera. Whatever it is to boost its dmg or to eliminate its Rock weakness. Tran is Tran. Sets Rocks, is impossible to fully-counter, and checks a bunch of stuff. Tera enhances its dmg output and defensive prailess. Ghold, Skele, and non-Fighting STAB Valiant are new victims for it.
Torn-T losing Knock means Zapdos can now consistently switch into it. Electric/Flying STAB is stronger than ever, especially with Tera. Lando-T got big nerfs and competition with Tusks, but it will be a top pick regardless. It received Taunt, letting it act as a disruptior on top of its old roles from last Gen. People forget about how much role compression it has. Ground/Electric immune, Pivot, Rock setter, and just being a glue. Tera potential consists of Tera Flying, Water, Fairy, etc, depending on what it is tasked on checking. Watershifu was already great, but the addition of SD will change the way it is played. Its presence will demand more bulky waters and Future Sight support from the Slowkings. Sneasler is a mon with 130/120 offenses, a broken signature move, and Poison Touch U-Turn. It being a fighting type adds insult to injury. G-King, Pex, and Ghold seem to be the best counterplay to it as they resist both of its STABs while being immune to Poison. Dire Claw however, has a 30% chance to para or put them to sleep, limiting the safest switch-in to be Ghold. Its role seems to be a cleaner that chips down teams in the early-to-mid game similarly to Zera last gen.
G-King gets a massive buff with Chilly Reception. Its also the perfect Valiant check. OHKOs with Sludge Bomb, its SpD is high enough to eat a Sball, and Regen. Its also still a pain in the ass to switch into, even less so with the Recovery move nerfs. It might also be the only thing that can “check Enamorus” among other things. Be prepared for Glowking/Watershifu/Pult cores to arise again for the second gen in a row. Volcanion is slept on hard whenever Home is discussed. All you need is one word, Tera Water Volcanion. Makes its Steam Eruption busted, removes its sr weakness, and removes its ground weakness. Plus, with rain becoming even stronger with the new additions, Volcan will be an important part of staving off rain or being a big part of it. Speaking of Rain, Basculegion is the next big rain abuser since Mega-Pert and Barra. The perfect speed tier for abusing Swift Swim, powerful Wave Crashes, decent enough bulk, and priority. Outside of Rain it can be Crawdaunt 2.0 and abuse CB Adaptability boosted Wave Crash. Also Tera Water is broken. Rilla might have been nerfed but Grassy Terrain is still the best one. Think about how many mons would benefit from a good setter. Tusks, Skele, Meow, Gambit, Ghold, Pex, Dozo, Volc, Moth, Garg, etc. Even if it ends up losing Grassy Glide, it still has boosted Wood Hammers, U-Turn, and Knock Off. Tera also can shed off its defensive typing or make its STABs even better.
The Good
Enamo-T is underrated. With the same sky high SpA with great bulk and a fantastic defensive typing to boot. Fairy/Flying resists and is immune to some important types, those being Ground, Fighting, Dragon, Grass, and Dark. With CM + Three Attacks, it is essentially a fatter Hatt without Magic Bounce. Goltres with Tera + Screens is a beast, and plus its in a meta with less Toxic, No Koko, and No Clef. With how much offense was buffed this gen, Goltres may find itself to be OU this gen rather than just being good in OU. Hisuian Samu shows alot of promise with its new signature move. An offensive move that sets spikes. It is also not to shabby offensively or defensively. Packing strong STABs boosted by Sharpness, SD, and Sucker Punch. Its bulk is not good but the defensive typing lets it get 1-2 switch ins vs Ghold, Gren, and Gambit to get off a layer of spikes. I could see either SD, Sash lead, or AV becoming a thing. Hustle historically has been unreliable, so I don’t see it being the big thing. Instead it will be a staple on Sun teams with its speed tier, Victory Dance, and strong STABs + coverage. Sleep Powder is just extra on an already offensive threat. Tera Fighting for stronger CC or Tera Ice to completely eliminate Amoonguss or Zapdos.
The Niche
Tera Dark CB Hyperspace Fury is something out of nightmares. This shit has Pao’s atk stat (factoring in Swords of Ruin) with even better Dark STAB. No Tapus and just the minimal amount of fairies in the tier makes its STAB very spammable, Tera Dark also removes its 4x U-Turn weakness and lets it resist Dark. However it is still slow and not that bulky, so it won’t be a staple. This next one is for you 1DLK. Ches is Ferro but with recovery, and an immunity to Sball, Sludge Bomb, Focus Miss, Pyro, and Gyro. With Tera Steel, Fairy, or Water, it could act as a check to Pult and Ghold. Its defensive typing as a whole lets it check Tusks, Meow, Gambit, Watershifu, etc. Less fairies, less Defog distribution, and no Ferro has also helped Ches immensely, There is a possibility of it having a worthwhile niche in OU. The other Grass/Fighting starter. Hisuian Decid looks to be a niche Defogger. The biggest thing about it is its a Defogger that beats Ghold AND doesn’t rely on Boots. MiR and Sball fail to 2HKO Decid, meanwhile it threatens with Scrappy Triple Arrows. Its not just a glorified anti-Ghold Defogger, its a Defogger that resists rocks, has U-Turn, has Knock, checks Meow, Tusks, and Gambit. Also Triple Arrows is a broken move with a high crit chance, dfse drop, and a small flinch chance. If it was on an already good fighting type and not on Decid, they’d skyrocket or get banned.
This is not G-Zap’s gen. Defog distribution is much lesser and its duty of punishing Defog is already taken by Ghold who also is a great check to it. It still has a role of punishing Tusks and Lando, but its niche is not much in demand. Better Flamigo everyone. Thundy-T is gonna return to its standard role as a rain abuser. With Tera Flying it can now use Flying STAB, and it also punishes the bulky waters that will arise due to the new rain abusers. Ursaluna seems promising, but the lack of defensive utility and its competiton with Offensive Tusks makes things rough. The increased use of spikes cuts down its amazing bulk. I could still see this thing as a viable slow wallbreaker that is immune to ghost and electric and absorbs status. Basculegion-F is another new rain abuser. Water/Ghost has very few switch ins. It has to compete with its male-counterpart, but it will find a niche to separate from it.
Other Thoughts
-Ghost competition is way to abundant for H-Typhlosion to find a place.
-Hisuian Avalugg sucks lmao
-H-Arcanine is too slow for OU, however UU or RU can appreciate a decently fast Head Smash mon.
-Overqwil seems promising in UU or RU, not sure if it will find a niche in OU.
-H-Electrode sucks, but it will be good in NU maybe.
-H-Goodra doesn’t have alot of defensive utility to reach OU but you never know.
-Cress got simultaneously buffed and nerfed. It seems too Tera reliant but perhaps with Trick Room or Scarf Trick Lunar Dance sets, it could find something in the meta.
-Hisuian-Braviary seems like a threatening snowballing machine with Specs Tinted Lens Esper Wing……In RU.
As for mons that could be unbanned
-Ban Last Respects and bring back the Hound.
-Keep Flutter Mane, Palafin, Chi-Yu, and Bundle far away from OU.
-Espa would be broken regardless unless they ban Tera.
-Pao could have a chance of staying with the increased power level and the addition of Tran and Watershifu to keep it in check.
-If the issue was Espa the whole time, then Cyclizar might have a chance to stay.
-Ape is the most likely to stay besides Hound. The increased power level and Torn might be able to power through the monkey.
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To add on to this, I really like Hisuian Braviary. (even though it isn't OU)
With 112 Special Attack and both Sheer Force and Tinted Lens, Hraviary is built to be a Hurricane spammer. In fact, compared to SV's current best Hurricaner, Iron Jugulis, Hraviary with Sheer Force + Life Orb does slightly more raw damage than Specs Jugulis despite the 10 SPA disadvantage.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Braviary-Hisui Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 905-1063 (208.5 - 244.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Jugulis Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 848-1002 (195.3 - 230.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Jugulis lowers it speed to get a Quark Drive boost, it will outdamage Hraviary
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Jugulis Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 848-1002 (195.3 - 230.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Jugulis lowers it speed to get a Quark Drive boost, it will outdamage Hraviary
So yea, not OU but I still think its pretty cool.
Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Esper Wing
- Shadow Ball / Roost
- Calm Mind
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Esper Wing
- Shadow Ball / Roost
- Calm Mind
Braviary-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens / Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying / Ghost / Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Esper Wing
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam / Tera Blast / U-Turn
Ability: Tinted Lens / Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying / Ghost / Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Esper Wing
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam / Tera Blast / U-Turn
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H-Zoroak so bad that it didn't even was included on the list
Personally I don't think Hoppa-U will stay on the tier even if tera gets banned.
Also, Cyclizar was banned not only because of Espartha, it was banned because it could pass a sub to Espartha and one or even two subs to other sweepers in the same match, while Orth just has one chance most of the time.
I don't think Annihilape will be healthy with the HOME additions. Maybe this needs more checks to arrive then just Torn-T.
Ghost/Fighting STAB is way too broken, even more than the infamous BoltBeam. And even if it's not fast enough, Ape has great abilities, movepool, stats and kinda broken signature move.
Also, Lando will be everywhere giving this thing Defiant boosts, and Tera will still be legal (for now).
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As for the HOME adds, I just want to spam Rilla + Sneasler core, even if Gholdengo is a pain.
Ghost/Fighting STAB is way too broken, even more than the infamous BoltBeam. And even if it's not fast enough, Ape has great abilities, movepool, stats and kinda broken signature move.
Also, Lando will be everywhere giving this thing Defiant boosts, and Tera will still be legal (for now).
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As for the HOME adds, I just want to spam Rilla + Sneasler core, even if Gholdengo is a pain.
honestly it kinda sucks that species clause prevents me from using regular zoroark and hisuian zoroark on the same team because good lord the mindgames you could play with those two. dark and normal/ghost have pretty good defensive synergy, and even if your opponent susses out that it's a zoroark through stuff like hazard damage or frisk or something that doesn't indicate typing/movepool, they still have to guess which one it is. definitely a gimmick team but it would have been a really fun one
TCTphantom
formerly MX42
Honestly I would be more worried about Urshifu Rapid Strike than Enamourus Incarnate. Swords Dance is one hell of a buff to it and makes it pretty hard to switch into. Combine that with Future Sight support and outside of a small pool of Bulky Waters, what is switching into an SD Urshifu R? It still has its CB set to fall back on as well. It also likes Terra and Terra Blast a lot too. Compared to Enamourus I think it is more likely to be too much for the tier.
Also in terms of unbans.
-Last Respects is dumb, plz kill
-Flutter Mane, Palafin, Chi Yu, and Bundle are all still too much
-Espathra is toxic
-Cyclizar will probs stay banned unless Shed Tail is kill
-Pao and Ape imo are borderline cases that could be unbanned in theory.
-Honestly there is a solid chance one of the Zamazentas manages to creep into OU. If Terra does get further restricted or banned these two seem like they could in theory drop. Both have their own silly sets (Terra Dark Iron Defense+BP could be dump on Crowned, Hero with band is a bit spoopy for Offense) but I think they honestly have a better shot of staying OU than Urshifu S or Mag.
- Status