I have always avocated for its ban, and I think it's enough now. We've reached a metagame where HO is too problematic, and as people said it earlier, the mouse brings hazard control to HO, without sacrificing a mon for it, because it can setup a dragon dance while removing hazards!! Moreover, its very good speed stat makes less scarf options to outspeed it after Tidy Up. And the icing on the cake, you are almost forced to run a Rocky Helmet (and don't get knocked it off ofc) on your team if you wanna be safe against the mouse, which is restricting the building as hell.
It is probably a consensus for almost all the RU community, the turtle is the most threatening mon in HO. And while I agree with feen saying that Maushold is the first mon which should undergo a tiering action, I think we won't avoid discussing again about the turtle. This mon is bulky as hell for a HO mon, so you can't even punish a free setup, and it's not even only reliant to tera. In fact, mixed sets with eq came out with the presence of Volcanion and Hoodra, and that is a problem, because this mon can break as much as a mon using tera, but without burning it. And almost impossible to revenge kill in one hit with its bulkiness.
Even if most people complain about it's ability to flinch at the right moments, I think that they are exaggerating about the strength of Yanmega. Firstly, Yanmega is "broken" only because of Throat Spray Speed Boost set, and is insanly dependant to tera (ground), otherwise it just doesn't break some mons as Hoodra. Moreover, it's super weak to rocks, and with a action on Maushold, which is its favorite HO partner, it makes it really harder to put on the battle field. And yes, Air Slash have a 30% chance to flinch, but guys it's pokemon, there are secondary effects that make the game less boring, and this one is not that absurd (if an Air Slash flinch makes your blood boil, you would instantly rage quit against Dire Claw Sneasler...). Although I understand that when a secondary effect is just stupid as hell, it forces action, I saw too many people complain about it when it's not a that big deal. Where were you when Togekiss was perma flinching last gen??
Reva has always been an awesome HO mon for months and months in SV RU, due to its access to Shift Gear, combined with an awesome double STAB and decent ground coverage. It's a pretty good tera user, by covering its weakness (especially x4 ground weakness),or/and in order to catch some mons with Tera Blast. Again, it can flinch at decisive moments with Iron Head, but it can miss Gunk Shot too!! Without joking, I find it absolutly fine, we have some good answers, even some without the need of tera (Hippo and Slowbro for example), so there's no action needed for it imo.I don't see any other mon to discuss about, HO seems to be overpowered indeed, but I find the rest of the metagame really fine, and I think we targeted the two real problematic mons, which after undergoing tiering action, will make HO really fine and the metagame more enjoyable.
P.S. I saw people mentionning Mimikyu, so I'm gonna add something for it.
Ok this mon is almost mandatory for good HO and is annoying with Red Card set for example, but it is also a good anti-HO mon tahnks to its ability, so imo action on it is totally idiot unless it's broken, and spoiler it's not at all.
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- Blastoise is an awesome, awesome HO goon, capable of running far more than just the standard Timid Ice Beam / Surf / Tera Blast Electric stuff people know and hate. I have advocated for Blastoise to run mixed sets with Earthquake for a long time, and with Hisuian Goodra in the tier now, it definitely warrants consideration. I also think Slowbro sinking in usage makes Dark Pulse much easier to drop, making Blastoise a lot more comfortable as a Tera Hog... However! I think people kind of forget that this set is fairly limited in what it can do, and even mixed Blastoise struggles into fairly splashable mons like AV Cyclizar and Wish Umbreon. I'm happy the community kept Okidogi in the tier as it also functions as a competent Blastoise semi-check at times, though HO is all about trading and positioning so it can be tough to get it into place right, of course.
- The little mouse that could. I know Maushold is really obnoxious as it functions as a Population Bomb nightmare, essentially mandating a Rocky Helmet user or Tera Ghost / Steel of some kind... but it also just kinda sucks if we're being real. It does one thing and one thing only: Tidy Up, Encore, Population Bomb, Bite/Bullet Seed. It's either Ghost or Normal, Fire is dead with Moltres gone. You shouldn't let it Encore you on a SD, simply put. People kind of forget that Rocky Helmet is generally good and this thing folds the moment you force it into a 50/50 with something like Sucker Punch or other priority. I also think Maushold is generally just so hard to pilot at times even if you lose your Rocky Helmet to a different goon, though my main point of HO being worse now than before is we got rid of the main Knock Off HO staple in monke, and stuff like DD Necrozma just isn't real most of the time.
- This one has baffled me, as people kind of imply it'll always get a Shift Gear and Iron Head Flinch on an incoming Hippowdon, winning games that it had no place in winning. The only thing this mon does differently at times is run something like Tera Grass Tera Blast, which is admittedly a funny idea but Quagsire and Gastrodon are so niche that you kinda deserve to lose if they're willing to load that unset. Iron Head is definitely annoying, but we have far better flinch fishers in the tier, and Gunk is a powerful, but prone to missing, STAB that people refuse to drop for something like Jab. I think this is maybe the best contender to leave honestly since Shift Gear is admittedly really good, and it has notable advantages to Blastoise with its typing and flinch chance, but I still think it's fine as is.
- My beloved balance staple. I think people hate on this because it's haha funny when you get flinched on your special wall, but I swear to you I've lost more to Air Slash misses than I've won to Air Slash flinches guys. It's also taking 50% to rocks unless you fail to keep them up, which can admittedly be tough into Maushold HO teams for sure... but it's 50%. That is a ton of damage for a sweeper to take before it clicks a move. I think people are also acknowledging that it should almost exclusively run Ground now, as I fail to see the merit in Electric with Hoodra in the tier and Empoleon and Fezandipiti remaining relevant. If this gets banned, I get it, but it's really not 30% flinching its way through most games. Also, don't ever hard cyc into this thing, people fail to realize you die to two buzzes unless you're like max/max.
I’m sorry ForreNation, but in this day and age, we have little use for “role compression”, especially since forre kinda sucks at it anyways
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)
, 
and 
to this year's April, May and June where I spammed a lot of Palossand spikestack in particular with mons like 
, Calm Mind 
and MGLO 
. I want to talk about the different pokemon that fit well on spikestack and how I build it! It might be a long post so bear with me!
+ 
which while good I feel can cause awkward structures where you need to play very aggressively for mons like 
and 
. Sure both of them are checked by 
but then you open up a hole to 
and 
or possibly 
! So in this section I wanna both state some of the popular picks on these kinds of teams as well as mons that are good on spikes but are less popular.
: I of course cannot start a topic on spikes and NOT mention this cute sand castle. Equipped with a unique Ground /Ghost typing and solid bulk, it has anchored many a spikes teams in the past meta. Yet it's influence in the metagame is waning, with 
generally being the preferable ground and spikes not being as good as they once were. (Spin Blocker)
, 
, 
and the newcomer and best defog user in the tier- 
: This is, as I stated before, the crucial part of many spikestack teams, acting as a secondary answer to the myriad of physical threats in the tier ESPECIALLY those that the sand castle has trouble checking without burning tera-- 
, CB 
: The omnipresent motor vehicle finds itself biking into as the 3rd crucial member of most spikestack teams. It fills the gap where Chesnaught and Palossand can't in the special waters like Empoleon and 
. Spikestack teams enjoy Cyclizar not only as a defensive presence but also its AMAZING utility. Rapid Spin to remove entry hazards from your side of the field and Knock Off to remove the ever present Heavy-Duty Boots in one slot? Count me in! (Spinner)
>:( ), Wish + U-turn (better), Encore (Serene Grace Iron Head makes lefties heal THAT much) or offensive sets such as Superachi (Calm Mind + 3 Attks) Defensive Calm Mind (Calm Mind Wish 2 attks) or even mixed! All of these somewhat check the Fairy-types-- Fezandipiti (not really empoleon) and Gardevoir (Hoodra can make it tricky).
, 
, 
, 
, 
(this mon also acts as a pseudo Spin blocker). 
: Another Water /Ground type! A lot of functions are similar to 
but they are different in many ways. 1. Quagsire's higher defense stat 2. Quagsire's unaware ability (though I prefer Water Absorb) and 3. Quagsire's access to Toxic. All three of them give Quagsire its own niche on many spikestack teams. Use it more!
: Uhh I am not quite sure if people still like it but I think its useable. Its typing is of course excellent (wow a lot of these spikers are carried by their typings) and Prankster Thunder Wave and Spikes are never bad. Though I think slower breakers work best with it, such as Volcanion, 
: This one is a bit...peculiar. It can't keep Cyclizar away reliably without crippling it with Thunder Wave or hitting it with Superpower (thus being unable to run something like Taunt). However that doesn't mean it's not good on spikestack structures. Its one of the more reliable answers to the slow Calm Mind psychics- Slowbro and Reuniclus (if it opts for Taunt) as well as bulky Calm Mind 
and Fezandipiti. So I think it deserves a spot. Use it more!
: Please refer to 
: Probably the most niche spiker in the tier. Tho it acts as an excellent stop gap to Psychics and Gengar, so I think it deserves a place. This one generally fits on more fast pace teams, though I have used a bulky set with pain split to some success. Not quite sure what I can really say about it.
: It stops bike from spinning. The End. (It fits solely on stall teams).
: I think the best Gengar on spikestack teams is utility variant with Wisp + Hex + Sludge Bomb and one of Encore, Knock Off , Taunt, Psychic Noise or Focus Blast with at least 36 HP evs (it stops something).
: Very similar to Gengar except I wouldn't run STAB Hyper Voice here nor any HP EVs. Wisp Hex Focus Miss..I mean Focus Blast and U-turn or Knock Off make the set. It can also run Choice Scarf here!
: 
: EW WHAT IS THAT UGLY SPRITE. Anyways probably the 2nd best way to keep spikes up, pair with Overkwil or Gligar and profit.
: One of the best abusers of spikes. That TINY bit of damage can allow it to incinerate Jirachi and Draco Meteor Hersculegion into dust. Taunt allows damage to stick, meaning even Gastrodon can lose to it.
This thing is SO good on spikes teams just because it provides SO much to them. And I am NOT talking about those bulky sets. I am talking about Calm Mind sets. Calm Mind Jirachi, whether it is superachi, cm + wish, cm + Encore or cm + healing Wish, is superb on spikes teams and I cannot do justice to it here (I hope I can make a post on why cm rachi is super good on these structures but only time can tell). It puts such immense pressure on the opponent with all the guessing its sets. Went into bisharp? Oops got Aura Sphere'd, thought Quagsire was checking it? Nope eat that Grass Knot, Empoleon? Thunder'd, Reuniclus? Shadow Ball'd. Its AMAZING. Use it more!
: Click U-turn all game, sponge hits, then when their Goodra is in range, click Calm Mind. Win. Profit.
: Now I strictly only mean offensive Empoleon. Those passive ass Knock Flip Turn set aren't putting any pressure. If you use Empoleon on spikestack I suggest some anti cm users measure, such as Deoxys Defense!
: Force Jirachi in like twice, Thunder Wave it. Profit. ( I do not mean Thunder Wave Cress, the cress should be CM).
Honestly, this is the ultimate HO lead, due to its great speed stat of 112, which lets it get the jump on all other common HO leads and outspeed both thundy-i and maushold, allowing it to revenge kill them. The moveset I've been using is stealth rock, taunt, rock blast and cc. Rocks and taunt are self explanatory, but rock blast allows it to beat sash froslass and kleavor leads while cc helps it beat terrakion and lycanroc dusk leads, while suprise ko'ing cyclizar that thinks it can rapid spin on it. It also means if its preserved, it can be quite the deadly cleaner by dealing quite great damage with its 115 base attack stat. Something that people should really consider as a lead on HO teams more often.
Salazzle is a mon that most people probably don't even know is ranked in the RU VR, but it is, and honestly it is quite a good mon, but not with its usual sets. The set I'm talking about is scarf salazzle, which is quite the devestating mon against a weakened team. It crucially outspeeds every relevant scarf mon (sadly people don't see scarf barra as viable, but there loss) and can hit them for big damage. It has knock off to annoy walls switching in, or can use toxic to cripple anything switching in due to corrosion, but the main draw I believe of it isn't those two moves. No, what makes salazzle great is dragon pulse, which allows it to smack cyclizar for great damage. Tera dragon dragon pulse 2hit ko's AV bike and OHKO's boots bike, which for a special attacker is big. From here, you can decimate any team with proper prediction that doesn't have a Hoodra on their team, which is constantly chipped down by its attacks and will eventually fall (especially if you have toxic, as now they are on a fast timer). Great mon that decimates offensive teams and does well into bulkier structures.
Do you hate yanmega? Do you hate suicune? Do you hate rain? Do you hate random calm mind mons decimating your team? Well, do I have the mon for you, vaporeon. Vaporeon is honestly amazing in this meta, and idk why people think this mon is bad. Yes, it does compete with umbreon to an extent, but they have such different roles and things they check that frankly, it doesn't matter a whole lot. Vaporeon is the mon that I would give the title of best yanmega check (yes, check, because yanmega can still bullshit its way through most mons, even chansey, which gets worn down by hazards too much for me to give it that title, though it is close). Yanmega has no moves that super effectively hit vaporeon and +1 air slash never 2hit ko's vaporeon if its physical defense and only 4hit kos it if its special defense (though I personally wouldn't recommend special defense vapo, as it takes too much from weak physical attacks then). From here, vapo can haze away the throat spray boost, which makes yanmega a lot more dealable with. It can then wish itself up and scald yanmega till its ko'd. Now, what about the other mons? Suicune? Well, water absorb means vincune (the scariest set in my opinion) can't hit vapo at all, while vapo haze's away the boosts. Vapo can't beat suicune 1v1 as it still is pp stalled, but with something like cyclizar, its basically a won game. Slowbro and other cm mons? While a lot of them have psychic noise, which is annoying, the main issue with these mons isn't necessarily there damage, though they do quite a lot after boosts, its that they are unkillable on both sides of the spectrum after accuring a boost or two. Vapo prevents this, allowing teammates to deal heavy damage and knock them out. With slowbro seeing calls for a ban again (I personally think its fine, just a top tier mon), it most certainly helps a lot against this mon and the other random cm stored power mons that appear on ladder that decimate unprepared teams. Rain? Self explanatory, water absorb nullifies the main way rain deals damage, boosted scalds hurt, support with something that can deal with electric, boom, match won. Vapo can win against a lot of mons, and with some support (Hoodra is a great partner to it, as it takes the special hits that vapo can't take really well while being healed by vapo's wishes) it can be a crucial member of a team.
