Resource SV Ubers Viability Rankings

I think you overestimate Iron Bundle's power, It probably doesnt even 2 hit ko kyogre with freeze dry, and while fast it isnt strong enough or bulky enough

252 SpA Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Depends. Is it bulky or is it fast Kyogre? Because fast is almost a guaranteed 2HKO, but bulky it needs life orb/specs/Tera Ice to acheive said 2HKO. I indeed feel C/C+ rank is deserving because of frailty but also because it does have a niche in outspeeding the Bikes. It's indeed overrated due to having more usage than it should with only 124 Special attack.
 
252 SpA Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Depends. Is it bulky or is it fast Kyogre? Because fast is almost a guaranteed 2HKO, but bulky it needs life orb/specs/Tera Ice to acheive said 2HKO. I indeed feel C/C+ rank is deserving because of frailty but also because it does have a niche in outspeeding the Bikes. It's indeed overrated due to having more usage than it should with only 124 Special attack.

124 special attack is serviceable with specs and life orb. The problem is hydro Pump isn't very reliable, and Bundle doesn't have the bulk to afford missing even a single hydro Pump. Bundle dies in many games without getting even a single kill for this reason. There are tons of other wallbreakers who also provide defensive utility, and just outclasses Bundle in power.
 
So, I've been playing around a little and got a couple noms to make, first time this gen.

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-> S-
Yea, I don't think this pokemon belongs in the S ranks. Sure, it's fairly strong and brings valuable defensive utility being one of the few real steel types we have. However, I think the fact that most of it's checks line up entirely with Koraidons makes things really annoying for it. You can cheat past them with Tera bullshit (You're gonna notice a pattern lmao fuck tera), but having to do that to get use out of Zacian in a lot of matchups sucks. Stuff like Skeledirge, Toxapex, Corv, Dondozo, and Lando-T as well as soft checks like Arc-Water and Arc-Ground + Scarfers like Koraidon make it so Zacian-C can find itself stuffed a lot of the time. I Still think it's incredible, partially off the backend of it's defensive value, but I don't think it belongs with the other absolute cheaters in S rank, as those guys cheat past their checks for free oftentimes even without tera depending on the set.

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-> S-
Arc-Fairy has been a strong part of the tier since it dropped, being one of chosen Koraidon "checks" alongside like 5 other pokemon in the dex! However, if it was only that this would be little more than a puff piece, so of course there's more right? Right you are. CM Arc-Fairy is one of the more annoying setup sweepers in the tier, w Judgement EP you cover everything besides Corviknight and Tera Steel Giratina-O (you beat that anyways lmao), and can find itself snowballing very easily. This pokemon generally does the same thing with it's support sets, but it's variety is surprisingly good with it's flex slots. Judgement and recover aside, you got alot of options. SR, Taunt, Wisp, Twave, Healing Wish, EP, and even perish song are all option to pick from. All of these change around what you'd use to challenge this thing, most of which assist your backline in some way. Overall, it's a phenomenal pick. That said, like Zacian-C I don't think it belongs in the S tier, as those mons are actually horseshit in how easily they run away with games.

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-> B+
I'm going to disagree with Mana's appraisal of Kingambit and actually nom it higher. I think Sucker provides some valuable defensive utility, and can be used to cheat past Wisp Arc-Forms w Tera Fire. Small fry? I agree, what I think it also has is the value of being a soft flutter check. Resisting shadow ball and not being weak to moonblast is an uncommon trait and forcing it to respect dying to sucker is valuable, as is it messing with Pex with enough dead bodies on it's side. Korai is an ok check but forcing damage on that thing isn't particularly hard and +2 suckers will hurt it pretty badly.

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-> C+
This thing messes with Ting Lu builds heavily, cm is free and nuzzle is very free aswell on a chunk of the arc forms that'd try to CM against you. Alternatively, 3A w mystical fire psyshock is also nice. IMO it leaves something to be desired defensively since it's not remotely a koraidon check so you shouldn't use it like one, but with how important the Ting Lu spikes war has become in the tier, having a mon that lets you not give a shit about it, letting you run fatter Ting Lu's is very nice, and I think C undersells that value.
 
Not Ok with Iron Bundle position. Under electrik terrain it outspeeds near everything (faster than Koraidon scarf remember). And its typing is excellent in a meta dominated by dragon-types (Miraidon, Koraidon, Giratina) and ground types such as Arceus ground, Ting-Lu, Groudon...
Its bulk let it resist non-boosted Zacian. And overall, because of its speed it is an excellent revenge killer.
 
Summary of changes

New Mons Added:
:orthworm: from UR to C
:enamorus: from UR to C-
:garganacl: from UR to C-
:greninja: from UR to C-


Drops:
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from S to A+
:arceus: from A+ to B+
:Groudon: from A+ to A
:eternatus: from A to A-
:mewtwo: A- to B+
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from B+ to B
:corviknight: from B+ to B
:Gothitelle: from B to C+
:calyrex-ice: from B to B-
:cresselia: from B- to C+
:giratina: from B- to C
:palkia-origin: from B- to C+
:great-tusk: from C+ to C
:samurott-hisui: from C+ to C
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from C to C-
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from C to C-
:Blissey: from C to C-
:Palkia: from C to C-
:urshifu: from C to C-
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from C- to D
:Dialga: from C- to D
:Iron-Treads: from C- to UR
:spectrier: from C- to D
:zamazenta-crowned: from C- to D


Rises:
:landorus-therian: from B to A
:Flutter-Mane: from B+ to A-
:rayquaza: from B to B+
:kingambit: from C to B+
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from C+ to B-
:iron-bundle: from C to C+
:walking-wake: from C- to B-
:basculegion: from C- to C+

The sheet detailing everyone's vote can be found here. Some brief justification for the more noteworthy changes.

Arceus-Ground falling out of S: While it remains very good especially as a lategame cleaner, it has fallen off slightly as a result of type synergy, as it does not effectively check miraidon and thus can stack weaknesses with common teammates. Still a very good Pokemon, but not as good as the initial VR had it as.

Arceus dropping to B+: Things arent quite clicking for Ekiller right now, with the bulk in the tier capable of tanking at least one boosted hit, the nerf to recovery pp, and the rise of pokemon like Lando-T and Basculegion that can annoy it, this is simply not the right meta for Ekiller to shine in at the moment. It would still be fantastic if using it didnt mean not using one of Arceus-Fairy or Arceus-Ground though, which offer far more general utility, and in Arceus-Ground's case, a very similar niche as a physical set up sweeper.

Landorus-T rising to A: Intimidate remains one of the best abilities in the game, and being a spikes immune 'answer' to Koraidon is incredibly valuable. Coupled with easy momentum with U-Turn and Taunt to mess up opposing walls, Lando-T is here and here to stay. Losing toxic and defog did hurt it but it has rebounded back to where it tends to end up anyway.

Kingambit rising to B+: Possibly the most threatening mon in lategame scenarios, Kingambit finds itself in B+. While plenty of things in the tier can take on a Kingambit from full, they are very rarely things that remain at full health throughout a game, and with Sucker Punch Kingambit might only need a single turn to swing a game on its head, which it can normally afford to do with its Tera intact.
 
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Are we allowed to ask questions about the shifts? If so, I’m extremely curious about the divisive nature of Palkia-O amongst the council, as it dropped to C+, but had votes even amongst the council members to move it up as high as B+. If we’re not allowed to ask questions, feel free to delete this.
 
Are we allowed to ask questions about the shifts? If so, I’m extremely curious about the divisive nature of Palkia-O amongst the council, as it dropped to C+, but had votes even amongst the council members to move it up as high as B+. If we’re not allowed to ask questions, feel free to delete this.

You can always ask questions. Palki-O is in a weird spot, I quite like it (hence i voted for it to move to B). However, the first tiebreak we use in determining a mon's placement is if there is majority support for a particular rank. Given 4/7 members voted for it to go to C+, it wouldnt have mattered if the rest of us voted for it to go to D or to S, it would go to C+.
 
However, the first tiebreak we use in determining a mon's placement is if there is majority support for a particular rank. Given 4/7 members voted for it to go to C+, it wouldnt have mattered if the rest of us voted for it to go to D or to S, it would go to C+.
Ubers finds new and innovative ways to make me angry!

anyways, justice for Eternatus; it's good and people are just using it as a Toxic bot when the offensive set is extremely threatening.
 
Are we allowed to ask questions about the shifts? If so, I’m extremely curious about the divisive nature of Palkia-O amongst the council, as it dropped to C+, but had votes even amongst the council members to move it up as high as B+. If we’re not allowed to ask questions, feel free to delete this.
Palkia is in a weird spot where it is theoretically good, which is why you see high votes for it among council members, but its also very hard to justify over Miraidon and Eternatus as offensive special dragon. I don't think Walking Wake is better than it as it is currently rappresented by the VR, but i do overall agree with the people that rank it quite low.
 
I once again am gonna say Blissey should rise not fall. I think C- is a shame for it as it's one of the best special walls in the tier and one of the few pokemon that can repeatedly switch into specs Miraidon.

Not only that but it's one of the best and only mons in the tier to carry heal bell, which allows it to support its team like no other mon in Ubers and can give a lot of mons recovery. it's got rocks for role compression and I think it just generally does a hell of a lot more than every other C- mon and even C mons.
 
I once again am gonna say Blissey should rise not fall. I think C- is a shame for it as it's one of the best special walls in the tier and one of the few pokemon that can repeatedly switch into specs Miraidon.

Not only that but it's one of the best and only mons in the tier to carry heal bell, which allows it to support its team like no other mon in Ubers and can give a lot of mons recovery. it's got rocks for role compression and I think it just generally does a hell of a lot more than every other C- mon and even C mons.
Blissey becomes more and more abusable the stronger the threats it checks become. Oh you're the only Draco switchin on the opposing team? You've now been chipped by U-turn and/or Volt Switch. Oh you're trying to beat CM Miraidon by running Calm Mind yourself? Taunt shuts you down multiple times as hard. Softboiled losing 8 PP made it a done deal that this Pokemon would not ever see real success.
 
Blissey becomes more and more abusable the stronger the threats it checks become. Oh you're the only Draco switchin on the opposing team? You've now been chipped by U-turn and/or Volt Switch. Oh you're trying to beat CM Miraidon by running Calm Mind yourself? Taunt shuts you down multiple times as hard. Softboiled losing 8 PP made it a done deal that this Pokemon would not ever see real success.

I still think it's better than anything else in C-. I think you're underestimating how useful Heal bell is and calm mind Miraidon is so much easier to check then specs Mirai imo with Blisseys teammates.
 
I still don’t understand why Froslass and Meowscarada are hanging on in C tier. There powerful and relevant meta threats that set spikes in Groudon, Ting-Lu, and Clodsire that are actually bulky enough to live a bit (or multiple) and offer a valuable Electric resistance. Meanwhile, Froslass and Meow have hideously poor typings, require a focus sash, and can’t really do anything against Giratina-O, the premier hazard remover.
 
I still don’t understand why Froslass and Meowscarada are hanging on in C tier. There powerful and relevant meta threats that set spikes in Groudon, Ting-Lu, and Clodsire that are actually bulky enough to live a bit (or multiple) and offer a valuable Electric resistance. Meanwhile, Froslass and Meow have hideously poor typings, require a focus sash, and can’t really do anything against Giratina-O, the premier hazard remover.

They operate as suicide leads for HO teams, which Groudon, Ting-Lu and Clodsire do not.
 
What caused Rayquaza to rise?

Balance is the dominant playstyle in SV right now and Rayquaza does very well into it. It's a pretty threatening Dragon Dance sweeper as well with its STAB Dragon Ascent being hard to resist and Espeed being a valuable tool on any offensive mon. It's a vanilla good mon that was honestly pretty underrated when the VR dropped. As it claimed more important wins more people started to realize it was indeed a good mon and it rose.
 
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I 8TRUC THE SPAMMER OF BULLSHIT THINK THAT HATTERENE SHOULD BE GIVEN A RISE IN THE VR REASONS YOU MAY ASK REASONS I SHALL PROVIDE:
1- i think -C is a rank that is given to pokemon that has a purpose on a very specific team style and that too is a niche role ,take gen8 xatu for an example, however i think such is not true for hatterene as unlike xatu n shit its actually great at what it does and it performs the function that is has in a very good manner (unlike xatu beaten by knock ndm) and also unlike xatu hatt is not confined to a very specific sub-genre of teams such as HOOH SEMI STALL hatt is functionable on all HO,BULKYOFFENSE,STALL (not so much on balance but thats normie playstyle anyway)
2- hatt is cute
3-Hatterene trully makes mu vs tinglu very easy winning a spike war which is crucial in a meta with soo little removal
4-hatterene destroys most common stalls in ubers because they are not ready for it
5-hatterene can also somewhat check koraidon (not good at this please dont kill me for adding this) specially taunt flame charge set after opponent tera is burned
6-hatterene is not passive as shit as nuzzle can provide good utility vs incoming zac/arceus-f
7-hatterene blocks stalltwo more about y that is imp later
8-hatt allows teammates like tina to forgo defog and actually use good moves (not always dont kill me for adding this)
9-hatt allows HO to not lose momentum and keeping off hazards (more on that later)
10-hatterene block cheap stored power arceus (more on y that is important later)
11-hatt can also serve as a tr setter lead for trick room teams (dont do this tho i dont recommend it dont kill me its just what ppl are doing)
NOW THAT I 8TRUC SPAMMER OF BULLSHIT HAVE PROVIDED 10 REASONS I SHALL TELL YOU HATTERENE'S ROLE IN DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES 1 BY 1 STARTING WITH HO:
oh my gawd these tryhard noob tspike spammers are everywhere they ruin my team what can i possibly do ;-; NO PROBLEM RUN HATTERENE
now some of you will ask not just use eternatus and absorb tspike to that i say cool do it.HOWEVER,hatt has the ability to do this while not losing momentum unlike eternatus who lets in ting lu which gets up 3 spikes ww your set up guy and everything becomes messy for your HO ting lu in vs your HO is never good i expect yall to know this if you give him free turns hell be a bitch but HATTERENE DOES NOT LET THIS HAPPEN it can also nuzzle shit and check korai somewhat(dont kill me hes bad at this) if you toxic ting lu with etern good for mirai yes but if you get in cb/lorb korai in free vs lu for atleast 2 times per game great for your team .set to use on these types of teams: https://pokepast.es/aa5f731509e7c193
THE USE ON STALL:
hatterene in my opinion is a sleeper pick on stall i might as well go ahead and say it is more influential than shit eternatus on stall hell he might even be better than arceus-water hell he might even be better than skeledirge (dont kill me i trully stand by eternatus part tho that guy is not it) next we shall discuss its uses on the manly playstyle that is stall
1-beats stalltwo every staller hates stalltwo i do too but hatterene destroys stalltwo taunt(bounced back) burn(hhaha bitch) psystrike(that tickles)recover(you only got 8 of those mf) in return you cm to +6 so they have to switch to the limitted checks to hatt like arc-f(allows hazard spam by clod or regen cycling of pex or rocks by bliss or defog by corv basically opponent loses momentum)arc-g(bliss gets up rocks,corv defogs arc-water can rocks etc)zacian (mystic fire takes 50 from him nuzzle paras it stall doesnt use nuzzle tho pex regen cycling mola regen cycling arc ground set oppurtunity if it has lost the initial boost arc-w rock arc-g rocks tera tina defog)
2-allows teammates to not run boots ; u can use chansey now you can use helmet on pex now you can use dondozo with lefties/helmet now you dont have to defog soo often that the game goes for 10000 turns if you are using arceus n shit natus can run lefties(eww natus tho)
3-check niche future sight users with protect like slowking haha slowking noobs get rekt
4- hatterene also lives hits from shit in a pinch like ray/arc/korai etc
5-makes stall mirror tilt heavily in your favour
6-blocks tina hazard spam (fuck u tina hazard spammers use real breakers like a man does)
sets to use on these teams : https://pokepast.es/fda04e29aac04bb7 mystical fire is replaceable with protect healwish etc
THE USE ON BO:
hatt has a very beautiful niche on BO as it can:
1-provide tina-o with a free slot over defog dual status tina is op use him guys
2-provide ogre longevity vs spikes teams so it can fire more hits
3-para zac/arc-f so that your guys can abuse the shit out of it
4-wins the hazard war (very important for BO)
5-healwish and bring a teamate back to life
6-serve as a wincon late game
7-beats stall2 (annoying for BO)
THIS IS MY CASE INFRONT OF YOU I HOPE YOU CAN SEND HATT TO A BETTER TIERING BECAUSE ITS PRETTY POGGERS BYE YALL :)
 
Why is Koraidon ranked higher than Miraidon?
It's a very slight difference in placement so if people were to argue Miraidon over Koraidon it's not a huge deal, we had 2 votes for Miraidon > Koraidon on the slate even, but personally I put Koraidon slightly higher for its versatility and imo better speed control set which is super valuable in a Zacian + DD Arc meta among other things. CB, LO, and SD Lum sets are all good on Koraidon, I've even built with boots before, so it has a lot it can do and very little drawback. Setting sun to be a soft ogre check is also nice since Miraidon loses to scarf spout. This isn't to say anything bad about Miraidon tho, since it does still have its versatility with boots, choice, and setup sets, and I think it's a better breaker generally, but I think Koraidon is slightly easier to splash on a team, gives slightly better mu's as a pivoit, and also for mons that close in strengths being able to support proto mons like flutter wake and tusk is also a plus for Koraidon since the quark drive mons kinda suck.
 
Question: What makes Walking Wake better than Palkia-O?
PalO is faster and bulkier, also stronger but ig booster energy, sun, or specs can get around that. But not only PalO, the reason for it being C+ is Miraidon and Etern, at least from what I've seen above, but both also outclass Walking Wake. What brings Walking Wake to a higher tier than PalO, and to an extent Palkia, as Palkia is also bulkier as well as stronger, although slower and lacks a useful ability.
 
Question: What makes Walking Wake better than Palkia-O?
PalO is faster and bulkier, also stronger but ig booster energy, sun, or specs can get around that. But not only PalO, the reason for it being C+ is Miraidon and Etern, at least from what I've seen above, but both also outclass Walking Wake. What brings Walking Wake to a higher tier than PalO, and to an extent Palkia, as Palkia is also bulkier as well as stronger, although slower and lacks a useful ability.

To preface this, I did vote Palkia-O to be higher than Walking Wake, but the logic is that Walking Wake fits more naturally onto teams, due to its very good synergy with both scarf and band koraidon, whereas Palkia-O would prefer sun to not be up and can struggle to beat things like Ting Lu if the sun is up. On top of that, Walking Wake in the sun is faster than Palkia, as well as things like DD Arceus-Ground and Miraidon, which Palkia is not.
 
To preface this, I did vote Palkia-O to be higher than Walking Wake, but the logic is that Walking Wake fits more naturally onto teams, due to its very good synergy with both scarf and band koraidon, whereas Palkia-O would prefer sun to not be up and can struggle to beat things like Ting Lu if the sun is up. On top of that, Walking Wake in the sun is faster than Palkia, as well as things like DD Arceus-Ground and Miraidon, which Palkia is not.
Thank you for clarification. However, why not just slap a scarf Korai on your team? They overlap with the dragon type, too.
 
Thank you for clarification. However, why not just slap a scarf Korai on your team? They overlap with the dragon type, too.
You totally can and it’s not rare for Walking Wake to be partnered with a Scarf Koraidon. It’s generally just a strong breaker that Koraidon can pivot into to threaten its checks like Skeledirge, Lando, and Groudon.
 
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