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Resource SV Ubers Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Aberforth
- Start date
TFW Koraidon does the sun setter job better and Ting-Lu being the better defensive spiker lol
Blanks the hell out of Gambit and does well into Caly-I, I’d think
It's a solid midgame breaker/cleaner with ESeed/Sash SD sets. While it's very Tera reliant, +2 Sneasler does shred through a lot of common balance structures, and frees up its teammates to clean/will outspeed the entire tier after an Unburden boost and sweep. Other sets do exist but that's by far its biggest niche.
You'd think so but
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. +3 0 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 134-162 (41.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It's actually a solid surprise sweeper thanks to IronPress being fucking stupid. Only tour use tmk is alongside Orthworm where it Shed Tails into Zama, giving it a free ID. Stone Edge can pick off Ho-Oh and it can feasibly get away with Agility to try act as a sweeper of sorts. Standard Sub IronPress sets can work too, they've just not been used much outside the odd ladder game here and there.
Wheres bolt? (Ik not ubers but still)
Not considered viable. The tier is in a position where it is incredibly capable of taking fast electric type attacks and strong dragon moves, relative to Raging Bolt's power, and stacking two pokemon of the same type like that makes the structure more prone to weaknesses against things like Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Fairy, and opposing Mirai/Koraidons.
Just use Miraidon?
EDIT: NEVERMIND... NEW TECH JUST DROPPED.... 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Raging Bolt: 344-416 (75.7 - 91.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
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Why did Flutter Mane drop to B and Iron Bundle rose to B+?
Why is dawn wings necrozma now viable?
to C or C-
Ok perhaps a very biased take, but I would argue Dawn-Wings has some very real niche options over the obviously superior Dusk-Mane. Meteor Beam Trick Room sweeper is a very real and potent set, and paired with a means of luring out Ting-Lu (I don't know, something like the number one mon in the tier and Ting-Lu's #1 reason for high viability) it's really effective. I got a #6 peak with a Dawn-Wings team which I think is super solid and provides a proof of concept of sorts, I'm by no means saying Dawn-Wings is super insane or the better Necrozma, I do, however, believe it has it's merits over Dusk-Mane.
It has unique merits as a Trick Room wincon because Meteor Beam lets it both boost to +1 and attack on the same turn, letting it make better use of its Trick Room turns than Dusk Mane who needs a turn of setting up Trick Room AND then needs to click SD to boost. Obviously it’s better than Lunala at TR too due to lower speed and higher special attack. Still very niche though since Caly-Ice is the best TR setting wincon in Ubers, but it has merits over even that and can be used in conjunction with it.
Why is Zama-C now C?
Why is Chien Pao above Kyurem-B?
Why has Arceus-grass risen?
Zama just folds to Zacian-C's close combat or tera groundbast, folds to korai, fold to mirai, etc etc.
I haven't used chien pao much but Kyrem B is an amazing wincon with tera electric to avoid para +electric stab is amazing + no dozo shenanigans
Arceus Grass is just there for kyo and groudon-who aren't very amazing rn and imo the other arc forms like fairy, ground and ekiller just do everything better
Why is Chien Pao above Kyurem-B?
Why has Arceus-grass risen?
Zama just folds to Zacian-C's close combat or tera groundbast, folds to korai, fold to mirai, etc etc.
I haven't used chien pao much but Kyrem B is an amazing wincon with tera electric to avoid para +electric stab is amazing + no dozo shenanigans
Arceus Grass is just there for kyo and groudon-who aren't very amazing rn and imo the other arc forms like fairy, ground and ekiller just do everything better
quickfire round
Zamazenta-C is a niche option that lets you check physical overload offense with Dauntless Shield + ID + Body Press sets; you can easily come in on stuff like E-killer/NDM etc and setup in their face and then they gotta expend the likes of Miraidon or Groundceus to take you down which you can deal with if you Terastallize, but it's still Zama-C so no higher. Chien-Pao is a tyrant in preview because Dark/Ice never stopped being oppressive and people running more and more Groundceus only works out in its favor. It's higher than KyuB cause the latter often needs to setup before it's threatening and is forced to be Loaded Dice to be effective, making it much easier to gauge the damage it will do on preview (Tera types unaccounted). Grassceus is just a personal choice kind of deal, many times are seen with 2 Ground-types and maybe even a Water type these days and even the things it's "bad" into like Koraidon and Ho-Oh don't wanna take a status move (BW Stone Edge isn't real despite what that one ladder player will tell you). It's still a super minor raise all things considered.
Flutter Mane dies to a slight breeze and offers next to nothing defensively despite being a menace and tying Scarf and +1 Koraidon/Miraidon. Bundle on the other hand puts a lot of pressure on balance teams thanks to Encore and getting momentum with Flip Turn, the latter being major in a tier where chip damage is getting harder to accrue with Boots Spam getting more and more traction. Also: see above about Ground-types and Waters being spammed aka the Ice/Water with Freeze-Dry has a field day. Oh, it's also faster than Scarf Koraidon which makes it a bitch to revenge kill.
Thnx for the explanation but doesn't Ho-Oh also beat the grounds and korai deals with waters? I dunno just seems odd.
But for somthing more important: Kingambit AND Arceus-Water to A-. I just don't see the point of water-types without drizzle with korai and miraidon running around-kyo acts like a soft korai check in a way with drizzle to combat orichalcum pulse. And Kingambit is also really good-while koraidon is a pain for it and Ho-Oh is pretty good too Sucker+Iron Head shenanigans are cool and can be a goodcleaner late game. Also:
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Koraidon: 261-307 (76.5 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (no allies fainted)
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Koraidon: 205-242 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
1 sd and a weakened Korai away from a sweep.
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 358-423 (86.2 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
same with Ho-Oh: and it can K.O a full health Ho-Oh too (althought not easily)
these pokemon cannot take unboosted no allies fainted iron heads/kowtow cleaves in the early game for fear of a K.O from sucker later. Also, Terastallizing koraidon can lose you the game. AND it beats NDM-as well as miraidon not resisting sucker (dies easily)
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 397-468 (104.1 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
oh, and outside of arceus-fairy none of them want to take a sucker without investment
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Arceus: 384-453 (86.4 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
With anything under that bulk without a rocks immunity/resistance dies.
Gotta love how iron bundle is the closest thing here to an actual miradon answer. Guessing that is why its been creeping up the VR lately aside from the fact it has unresisted coverage.Another VR update happened, slate is here to see individual votes.
Rises:
Kyogre: A --> A+ (5)
Calyrex-Ice: B --> A- (3)
Landorus-Therian: B --> A- (5)
Deoxys-Speed: B --> B+
Iron Bundle: B --> B+
Kingambit: B- --> B+
Grimmsnarl: B- --> B
Orthworm: C --> B
Arceus-Dark: C+ --> B-
Iron Treads: C --> B-
Arceus-Grass: C --> C+
Sneasler: C- --> C
Zamazenta-Crowned: D --> C
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Drops:
Eternatus: A --> A-(4)
Flutter Mane: B+ --> B
Giratina-Origin: B+ --> B
Ribombee: B+ --> B
Groudon: B- --> C+
Lunala: B- --> C
Skeledirge: B- --> C
Zekrom: B- --> C
Mewtwo: C+ --> C
Toxapex: C+ --> C
Arceus-Poison: C --> C-
Giratina: C- --> D
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: C- --> D
Walking Wake: C --> UR
Gothitelle: C- --> UR
Pecharunt: C- --> UR
Hello! Today I would like to make a nomination for a mon that seems to have a lot of potential in my opinion...
Zamazenta
: UR --> C/C+
First of all, I would like to credit Skyiew, after all, without Skyiew vs Lasen (UPL Week Seven) this Pokémon would have never come to my attention. Also, the climb was made before their version of the team was uploaded to the UPL team dump, so my version has some slight alterations.
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Here's the team I've been using for a few days now
So what did I learn? Why do I think Zamazenta is a Pokémon worth of a spot in the Viability Ranking?
Let's state the obvious first. Zamazenta is a very naturally tanky Pokémon thanks to his base stats and ability, and unlike Gen 8, he actually gets to capitalize off his typing and bulk offensively thanks to Body Press. His +1 defense boost on entry + access to Iron Defense allows him to comfortably check most if not all physical sweepers in the tier, for example he gets to boost in front of E-Killer Arc, NDM and Calyrex with ease while also taking on their moves without much difficulty. Also, Rest + Chesto Berry gives him a powerful safety net versus status conditions and just makes 1v1ing other sweepers that much easier.
So why not use Kingambit instead?
While Gambit can also check those three Pokémon without much effort thanks to his favorable type matchup and ability to outrun them under Trick Room, Zamazenta has the means for an amazing matchup vs the two strongest mons in the tier in Korai and Mirai, something Gambit is less consistent at. Koraidon allows him to set up without much thought, as Korai would need two crits in a row to actually break through the dog, while getting easily KOd after 2 Iron Defenses. Meanwhile, Miraidon is not capable of ever OHKOing Zamazenta without some sort of SpA boost, but Zama can KO it back after only one Iron Defense and a very small amount of chip damage or a lucky roll.
+3 252 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Miraidon: 298-352 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
But there's also one very important reason as to why his matchup versus the bikes is so good.
So why not use Zamazenta-Crowned instead?
There is a very short answer for that: his stat spread. Even though Crowned is *way* bulkier in both the physical and special spectrum, it loses a total of 10 speed points, which might not sound like a lot, but ends up being a very underwhelming speed stat in a metagame with so many common 400+ speed Pokémon, it's not even enough to outrun Eternatus of all things. Meanwhile, default Zama has an insane base speed of 138, which at max gives you a total of 411 speed, enough to outrun most relevant Pokémon, but most importantly, Koraidon and Miraidon. There's only 3 mons that can outspeed him at base, Zacian-C, Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S, only ONE of those can consistently revenge kill Zama. His strong Body Press and very respectable speed make up for a sweeper with potential. Also, the Steel Type from Zama-C can end up being detrimental, as it just gives you a worse matchup vs common mons like Groundceus, Koraidon and the not-so-common but still relevant Overheat Mirai.
Checks and Counters
Of course, this Pokémon isn't secretly unstoppable, after all, it's a fighting type with mediocre coverage in a tier where the best Pokémon is already a fighting type. However, for a Pokémon that doesn't seem too oppressive offensively, it doesn't have too many counters, the only ones that come to mind off the top of my head are Skele, Fairy-Arc and Gliscor. Even then, Fairy-Arc can be broken through thanks to a combination of Tera Fire and Toxic Spikes support from Glimmora. Zama *can* break through Gliscor eventually thanks to Crunch defense drops, but your opponent can easily play around it through a few good switches, so it doesn't end up being very realistic. Then there's the tier's Ghost Types, which are all very hard to break through with Zama, but still possible, after all, Rest + Tera Fire allow you to not care too much about Giratina's status moves (Dragon Tail sucks tho) and Crunch enables you to beat Lunala and NDW after a bit of chip. I should probably mention Ho-oh, who truly is the fakest check of all time. Thanks to Tera making you immune to burn and the option to cure your status condition with Rest, Ho-oh would need two crits in a row to break through Zama, while he consistently threatens a 3HKO to max defense max hp Ho-oh, not to mention the threat of a Crunch Defense drop. Whirlwind might sound bad at first, but the huge amounts of chip Zama can provide vs Ho-oh enables his teammates to come out afterwards and get a kill with consistency. The offensive Ho-oh variant straight up stands no chance. Offensively-oriented resists don't really do much to him ultimately, Pokémon like Eternatus and Rayquaza end up being 2HKOed after two boosts and don't really threaten to KO Zamazenta, so they don't tend to be problematic when it comes to late game sweeps. An eye should be kept on Deoxys-A and Flutter Mane, as those two make it impossible for Zamazenta to do much.
What are other options?
I haven't gotten the chance to toy with much else other than this one team with this one specific set, however, there's two things I've considered. First is Stone Edge, a no brainer. This move would allow you to 2HKO Ho-oh without having to click Iron Defense at all, or in the worst case scenario, at least you could bait a Tera that MAYBE could enable you to hit it with Body Press for neutral damage later (Tera Grass or Tera Ground are the best options by far). Ultimately, I think I still prefer Crunch just because of how increasingly common Lunala and NDW are becoming in the ladder for some reason, but it could still be a possibility, after all, it also allows you to hit Skele for a decent chunk. And then there's Tera Fighting. It will give you a worse matchup into a lof of things, like Zacian-C and Photon Geyser NDM just to name a few, however, it will allow you to 2HKO both Gliscor and Ho-oh after two Iron Defense boost, which could in theory come in handy in specific matchups. I have yet to try it tho, so this is more of a theoretical scenario than anything else.
Conclusion and replays
Zamazenta is a very one dimensional mon, a late game sweeper that thrives against teams that lean more into the physical side offensively speaking. That being said, what Zamazenta brings to the table is STILL extremely valuable, he is so much more than just a matchup fish and is capable of OHKOing so many would-be checks (like Miraidon and even fat Kyogre) after only two Iron Defenses. Although not consistent enough to ever become a staple of the Ubers tier, I still think this Pokémon has an array of excellent traits that are deserving of a spot in the Viability Ranking.
Replay 1
Replay 2
Replay 3
Replay 4
Zamazenta
: UR --> C/C+First of all, I would like to credit Skyiew, after all, without Skyiew vs Lasen (UPL Week Seven) this Pokémon would have never come to my attention. Also, the climb was made before their version of the team was uploaded to the UPL team dump, so my version has some slight alterations.
- - - - - Here's the team I've been using for a few days now
So what did I learn? Why do I think Zamazenta is a Pokémon worth of a spot in the Viability Ranking?
Let's state the obvious first. Zamazenta is a very naturally tanky Pokémon thanks to his base stats and ability, and unlike Gen 8, he actually gets to capitalize off his typing and bulk offensively thanks to Body Press. His +1 defense boost on entry + access to Iron Defense allows him to comfortably check most if not all physical sweepers in the tier, for example he gets to boost in front of E-Killer Arc, NDM and Calyrex with ease while also taking on their moves without much difficulty. Also, Rest + Chesto Berry gives him a powerful safety net versus status conditions and just makes 1v1ing other sweepers that much easier.
So why not use Kingambit instead?
While Gambit can also check those three Pokémon without much effort thanks to his favorable type matchup and ability to outrun them under Trick Room, Zamazenta has the means for an amazing matchup vs the two strongest mons in the tier in Korai and Mirai, something Gambit is less consistent at. Koraidon allows him to set up without much thought, as Korai would need two crits in a row to actually break through the dog, while getting easily KOd after 2 Iron Defenses. Meanwhile, Miraidon is not capable of ever OHKOing Zamazenta without some sort of SpA boost, but Zama can KO it back after only one Iron Defense and a very small amount of chip damage or a lucky roll.
+3 252 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Miraidon: 298-352 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
But there's also one very important reason as to why his matchup versus the bikes is so good.
So why not use Zamazenta-Crowned instead?
There is a very short answer for that: his stat spread. Even though Crowned is *way* bulkier in both the physical and special spectrum, it loses a total of 10 speed points, which might not sound like a lot, but ends up being a very underwhelming speed stat in a metagame with so many common 400+ speed Pokémon, it's not even enough to outrun Eternatus of all things. Meanwhile, default Zama has an insane base speed of 138, which at max gives you a total of 411 speed, enough to outrun most relevant Pokémon, but most importantly, Koraidon and Miraidon. There's only 3 mons that can outspeed him at base, Zacian-C, Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S, only ONE of those can consistently revenge kill Zama. His strong Body Press and very respectable speed make up for a sweeper with potential. Also, the Steel Type from Zama-C can end up being detrimental, as it just gives you a worse matchup vs common mons like Groundceus, Koraidon and the not-so-common but still relevant Overheat Mirai.
Checks and Counters
Of course, this Pokémon isn't secretly unstoppable, after all, it's a fighting type with mediocre coverage in a tier where the best Pokémon is already a fighting type. However, for a Pokémon that doesn't seem too oppressive offensively, it doesn't have too many counters, the only ones that come to mind off the top of my head are Skele, Fairy-Arc and Gliscor. Even then, Fairy-Arc can be broken through thanks to a combination of Tera Fire and Toxic Spikes support from Glimmora. Zama *can* break through Gliscor eventually thanks to Crunch defense drops, but your opponent can easily play around it through a few good switches, so it doesn't end up being very realistic. Then there's the tier's Ghost Types, which are all very hard to break through with Zama, but still possible, after all, Rest + Tera Fire allow you to not care too much about Giratina's status moves (Dragon Tail sucks tho) and Crunch enables you to beat Lunala and NDW after a bit of chip. I should probably mention Ho-oh, who truly is the fakest check of all time. Thanks to Tera making you immune to burn and the option to cure your status condition with Rest, Ho-oh would need two crits in a row to break through Zama, while he consistently threatens a 3HKO to max defense max hp Ho-oh, not to mention the threat of a Crunch Defense drop. Whirlwind might sound bad at first, but the huge amounts of chip Zama can provide vs Ho-oh enables his teammates to come out afterwards and get a kill with consistency. The offensive Ho-oh variant straight up stands no chance. Offensively-oriented resists don't really do much to him ultimately, Pokémon like Eternatus and Rayquaza end up being 2HKOed after two boosts and don't really threaten to KO Zamazenta, so they don't tend to be problematic when it comes to late game sweeps. An eye should be kept on Deoxys-A and Flutter Mane, as those two make it impossible for Zamazenta to do much.
What are other options?
I haven't gotten the chance to toy with much else other than this one team with this one specific set, however, there's two things I've considered. First is Stone Edge, a no brainer. This move would allow you to 2HKO Ho-oh without having to click Iron Defense at all, or in the worst case scenario, at least you could bait a Tera that MAYBE could enable you to hit it with Body Press for neutral damage later (Tera Grass or Tera Ground are the best options by far). Ultimately, I think I still prefer Crunch just because of how increasingly common Lunala and NDW are becoming in the ladder for some reason, but it could still be a possibility, after all, it also allows you to hit Skele for a decent chunk. And then there's Tera Fighting. It will give you a worse matchup into a lof of things, like Zacian-C and Photon Geyser NDM just to name a few, however, it will allow you to 2HKO both Gliscor and Ho-oh after two Iron Defense boost, which could in theory come in handy in specific matchups. I have yet to try it tho, so this is more of a theoretical scenario than anything else.
Conclusion and replays
Zamazenta is a very one dimensional mon, a late game sweeper that thrives against teams that lean more into the physical side offensively speaking. That being said, what Zamazenta brings to the table is STILL extremely valuable, he is so much more than just a matchup fish and is capable of OHKOing so many would-be checks (like Miraidon and even fat Kyogre) after only two Iron Defenses. Although not consistent enough to ever become a staple of the Ubers tier, I still think this Pokémon has an array of excellent traits that are deserving of a spot in the Viability Ranking.
Replay 1
Replay 2
Replay 3
Replay 4
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Would like to ditto support for ranking Zamazenta, probably as a C-/C at best (it feels far less splashable than Zamazenta-C which currently is in C). Having faced it a few times, it’s a frustratingly good end game sweeper, especially on Ho-Oh less teams as it can 1vX a lotta end games against physical offense/non-Scarf Miraidon/Kyogre (or hey they’re just dead). It’s absolutely a niche pick in what it does but it does have its places on the right kinda offence builds. It feels as usable as something like Skarmory or Great Tusk, which is where C- comes from to me.
UR -> DGouging Fire is Ubers as of yesterday, and unfortunately Ubers is filled to the brim with great Dragon Types. Obviously Koraidon is far better than it, but if you want a boosting Dragon type, Rayquaza and Black Kyurem are right there. Even as a Protosynthesis sun abuser it's outclassed by Flutter Mane. Altogether I don't see why you'd ever use Gouging Fire is you.want to win.
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Imo, there is no reason to actually use it, its slower than so many mons, gets decimated by many offensive threats like scarf koraidon, miraidon eternatus, and more. Honestly, if you are completely outclassed you do not deserve a spot on the VR, therefore I believe gouging shall be UR.
Gouging Fire is Ubers as of yesterday, and unfortunately Ubers is filled to the brim with great Dragon Types. Obviously Koraidon is far better than it, but if you want a boosting Dragon type, Rayquaza and Black Kyurem are right there. Even as a Protosynthesis sun abuser it's outclassed by Flutter Mane. Altogether I don't see why you'd ever use Gouging Fire is you.want to win.
gouging fire is techincally Ubers so it should be D-Ranked and blacklisted from discussion like mons like reshiram.
Oh yeah, thats fair.
anyways, change of topic, If I recall correctly, dialga has a niche in AG that gave it a VR rankings of B- over there, can it do the same thing in Ubers tho? Because iirc the niche was to 1v1 miraidon or something along the lines?
I'm pretty sure it's a Choice Specs attacker that doesn't struggle into Extreme Killer, but I don't think that role is THAT useful to justify using over Miraidon (besides Stealth Rock resistance I guess?) since Extreme Killer isn't as popular compared to NDAG (where it's on a vast majority of teams because of Calyrex-S).
It's that it 1v1s miraidon; rather in the tier dominated by ekiller and calyex-shadow its resistance to espeed and psyshock, as well as neutral damage from dragon moves makes it a more effective special attacker than mirai.
Returned to the tier recently and wanted to make some nominations.
S -> A+
Should not be in the same tier as the bikes.
A -> B+/B
Extremely fraudulent mon. Takes your Arc slot, weak to hazards, lets Mirai in for free and hits like a wet paper bag when sun is up. Ladder is obviously not the most accurate representation of the metagame, especially considering how dead it is atm, but it didn't even crack top 20 in usage last month. Far too niche for the ranking it's currently at and deserves to be lower.
B- -> C
C -> B-
Clod is forced to click recover every turn, which is way too passive for even stall. Gliscor is a better hazard setter and SpD bird is a better Ogre/Mirai switch in (once you tera it). Blissey, while limited to stall, is actually viable in that archetype, able to hit the field without losing all momentum.
C- -> C
C -> C+
Skarm should not be under Mola, it provides a lot of utility (takes knocks, sets spikes, rocky helmet chip) by comparison.
Corv is also good, pressure is a really strong ability but there's very few mons you actually end up needing to PP stall, taunt on Gliscor usually tends to be enough and I'd rather have spikes than pressure. It can serve as a pivot so that makes it viable on more teams than Skarm, but imo that should result in both moving up a tier rather than Skarm staying down.
C -> C-/UR
Passive, outclassed as a TSpiker, and serves as a free switch for NDM. Has much lower usage than half of D rank since DLC2 dropped.
UR -> C+
Daddy garg has basically one role, whipping out his belt for Ho-Oh, but it fills a unique enough niche that it's worth ranking. It's not something that fits on every team (IDef Arc is better at checking Caly and Kyub and also takes on NDM, but you need to give up your Arc slot for it). I can't justify anything higher than C+, but it's a legit great mon that absolutely deserves to be rated over crap like Arceus-Grass or Great Tusk.
S -> A+Should not be in the same tier as the bikes.
A -> B+/BExtremely fraudulent mon. Takes your Arc slot, weak to hazards, lets Mirai in for free and hits like a wet paper bag when sun is up. Ladder is obviously not the most accurate representation of the metagame, especially considering how dead it is atm, but it didn't even crack top 20 in usage last month. Far too niche for the ranking it's currently at and deserves to be lower.
B- -> C C -> B-Clod is forced to click recover every turn, which is way too passive for even stall. Gliscor is a better hazard setter and SpD bird is a better Ogre/Mirai switch in (once you tera it). Blissey, while limited to stall, is actually viable in that archetype, able to hit the field without losing all momentum.
C- -> C C -> C+Skarm should not be under Mola, it provides a lot of utility (takes knocks, sets spikes, rocky helmet chip) by comparison.
Corv is also good, pressure is a really strong ability but there's very few mons you actually end up needing to PP stall, taunt on Gliscor usually tends to be enough and I'd rather have spikes than pressure. It can serve as a pivot so that makes it viable on more teams than Skarm, but imo that should result in both moving up a tier rather than Skarm staying down.
C -> C-/URPassive, outclassed as a TSpiker, and serves as a free switch for NDM. Has much lower usage than half of D rank since DLC2 dropped.
UR -> C+ Daddy garg has basically one role, whipping out his belt for Ho-Oh, but it fills a unique enough niche that it's worth ranking. It's not something that fits on every team (IDef Arc is better at checking Caly and Kyub and also takes on NDM, but you need to give up your Arc slot for it). I can't justify anything higher than C+, but it's a legit great mon that absolutely deserves to be rated over crap like Arceus-Grass or Great Tusk.
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