SV UU Metagame Discussion

[Pabloaram]

- Bulk up sets seem ok, and pivot sets always seem to find a way. I’m not sold on it yet, but this wouldn’t be the first time zarude was underrated at the start of a meta.

Got SD now so is a bit more threatening even that 105 speed is a bit slow

 

[Lizzie]

Goltres is not being overhyped, its even more ridiculous than last gen mainly due to tera. Not only can it use tera to further bolster its already ridculous double dance sets by using it to trigger weakness policy, but it can also use it to boost its stab or break through things it should not be able to like tyranitar. Being obnoxiously bulky is just the icing on the broken cake here

I mean I don't really get what you mean here, the only possible way this can break through ttar is tera fighting and at best it trades vs tink regardless of what set you run on it. It's good but there is pretty good counterplay and revenging it isn't particularly unreasonable imo. As of this moment I think its actually completely overshadowed by hydreigon but hydreigon is definitely broken so who knows what happens long term.

 

[Vengeance417]

+ +

Been playing a few games since the mons dropped and I love this core so much. Been running SpDef Protect on my AMuk and it's the most obnoxious set ever. Rillaboom's Grassy Surge gives it an EQ resistance followed by an extra 6% healing on top of Leftovers, giving you 24% health back total when you Protect after coming in. Protect also allows you to scout Choiced moves, too. Mola's WishPassing also means this mon rarely ever dies, and gives it a nice physically-defensive teammate to fall back on. Rocky Helmet Mola also appreciates Rillaboom's terrain giving it passive healing, as well.



Yeah, this mon is crazy. I'm using Choice Band Tera Normal Extreme Speed and it just cleans teams after wallbreaking with its Fire/Rock STABs. I've also seen Life Orb sets, and while it has longevity issues and needs heavy support to keep itself going, it's very hard to come in on, even for some resists. Had my physdef Mola take 72% from Adamant Banded Head Smash. Fire/Rock 120 BP+ STABs are, not surprisingly, very difficult to tank if you're not an Intimidate Aqua Tauros, which I might see start picking up in usage. I think its poor defensive utility and bad weaknesses to common types will hold it back from being too brainless to pilot, but it's extremely powerful.

 

[Bice]

Lifeismyth are you proud of yourself for making shocks rise

Anyway, here's my first impressions from the few games I've played:

Ban This Shit Immediately
- This thing is morbidly obese and super hard to kill, especially once it gets going. Fairy+Ground coverage is effectively unresisted (unless you're Heattom (lol)), and it can stay healthy with Draining Kiss. Only things that can really hurt it are also broken as shit, such as...
- Pretty much everyone knew that upon dropping this thing was gonna be crunk. Flare Blitz with zero drawbacks hurts under the sun, and Head Smash has even more nuking power at the cost of accuracy. It retains ESpeed from its Kantonian counterpart, letting it pluck off weakened targets and patching up its meh speed.
- I haven't experimented much with Hustle sets, instead opting for a Chlorophyll set to be used under the sun, but either way H-Lilligant hits fast and hard. As Slip mentioned above, Wide Lens + Hustle hits super hard even without Victory Dance, and it gets Sleep Powder as well. It's basically Iron Leaves that trades stats for a slightly better typing and the ability to put things to sleep.
- A nightmare from the SS UU days has returned with a vengeance, this time with actual coverage thanks to Tera. I'd imagine Double Dance sets are gonna be super powerful on Hyper Offense and it has pretty good bulk to boot.
- Haven't experimented much with it but seems busted, unresisted STABS + sig move with a 20% chance to paralyze = ouch owie.

Sus But Probably Not QB Worthy
- While Torkoal enables a lot of dangerous sweepers, on its own it kinda sucks. Unlike Pelipper, who had good longevity, a great typing, and reliable recovery, Torkoal is very easy to wear down and is forced to either get chunked by rocks or hamper its sun-setting capabilities. Drought might be banworthy, especially if Ninetales comes back with DLC, though it's tough to say ATM.
- Who thought Stone Axe was okay? This guy hits hard, has decent utility, and a good typing, though it's not the bulkiest and 85 speed sucks. Still, I'd imagine it'll be pretty good on offense.
- Surprise surprise, one of the biggest fat annoyances in OU is doing the exact same things it was doing before, just in UU. Its bulk and longevity puts it on my radar, though it might be an essential glue mon for the tier.
- Espathra... 2! In all seriousness, I'd imagine that it has the capability to be a pain with Stored Power sets, but having to manually set up + having less initial offensive presence than its brothers stings. I'm also mandating that everyone nickname their G-Articunos "playboi garti"
- I know people are kinda panicking with this guy in the tier, but losing valuable utility moves like Knock Off and Defog really hurts it and makes it a lot more manageable. I think it'll be a nice offensive AV pivot.

ok time for updated takes
- A bit less broken than I thought thanks to its absolutely horrendous typing, though basically nothing walls it. I do think Tera types other than Fire and Rock are unexplored; Grass could be a good way to flip its weaknesses while also taking advantage of RHelm Hippo and Waters, while Normal lets it bolster ESpeed and punish frail waters like Greninja.
- Honestly kinda mid, especially with Chlorophyll. Struggles hard with 4mss given that Grass/Fighting has poor offensive coverage, forcing it to choose between Ice Spinner to hit more things and Sleep Powder for utility. Also for some reason they didn't give it Rapid Spin??? ig RU can have it,,,,,,,,
- Frankly disgusting and should be quick-banned, it has immense snowball potential and good all-around bulk. It basically has everything an Unaware mon could ask for (recovery, good stats, boosting methods) and pairs super well with fellow Unaware mon Quagsire.
- Sun kinda sucks as an archetype, there are very few good abusers and those that fit well on sun work just as well on similarly offensive teams without having to dedicate a shitton of resources. It being innately hazard weak does it no favors, even with the nuclear dog in the tier.

also can ou hurry up and get rid of tera plsthx

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1895841560

We're off to a good start...

 

[G-Luke]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1895841560

We're off to a good start...

Dogshit team feat dogshit plays tbh. That Skeledirge could be Blaze and the mat h would have gone exactly the same

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

Dogshit team feat dogshit plays tbh. That Skeledirge could be Blaze and the mat h would have gone exactly the same

I've noticed the competence level isn't as good as in OU... is this normal?

 

[Cheryl.]

I've noticed the competence level isn't as good as in OU... is this normal?

Considering something like Forretress is still in UU despite godly hazard removers like Cyclizar dropping a few months ago, yeah, UU low ladder is somehow worse than OU’s. It picks up decently once you get into 1500 level though.

 

[ausma]

quick thoughts

- as it turns out, without one of its best, omnipresent checks it's fantastic. scarf is absurdly strong and it makes great progress w/ stone axe also being very powerful in its own right. definitely appreciates how much removal options r in the tier. haven't tried boots or sd but scarf is legit as hell and scarf x-scissor is really strong w/ knock support and hazard stacking. at the very least i think it will remain good just because of scarf alone

sort of overhyped imo. it really wants your tera and there are a weirdly abundant amt of mons that can pivot into it and dispatch it. it really hates knock and can get overwhelmed with voltturn too. that being said i think it brings a pretty interesting presence in the tier and a neat tool for bulky offense thanks to being an offensive unaware user and packing wisp to force your respect.

unburden wins big this drop. rillaboom being available gives grafaiai and lucha much more potency, esp alongside its self-sufficient bulk, typing, and utility in knock/u-turn/leech. grafaiai itself is actually quite strong as an unburden user and there's a very legitimate reason to consider it over hawlucha because of its mu into skeledirge between gunk shot for tera fairy and knock/tera blast for its regular typing. you want ground tera blast from my experience; it pairs very well with stab gunk shot and it blasts open the steels grafaiai otherwise struggles to handle.

one of the best rkers now available because of espeed, and its stab combo is really hard to switch into. stab teras are a bait; tera grass and normal r the best ones imo. your stabs are already absurdly strong which generally makes them overkill, while grass both gives you a more reasonable defensive typing/leverage into your best checks in quagsire/gastro, whereas normal plays more into espeed. i feel like with tera there's a lot to unpack with this mon. you could do something like morning sun 3 attacks or mess with wisp/rocks to be more of a utility attacker. while im not sure if it's particularly broken i think it is really good.

the broken 3 to me. all are enabled to a particularly disgusting extent by screens. cresselia with tera poison just makes it near unkillable with screens if you give it any leverage, which is pretty hard not to do. iron hands is really dumb because it takes trades like little else, and even with dirge around you can just tech it with tera fire which from what i've tried isn't really too bad, but it feels like it definitely needs more time before i'm more certain on it. moltres-galar is really silly to me even with ttar and tinkaton being as prevalent as they are, mainly because tera + tera blast allows it to essentially pick and choose its answers. the 4mss is pretty real on its dual dance set though so i could see it maybe not being stupid but it's felt really egregious for me.

to be honest, i genuinely wonder if light clay is actionable and what you guys think of it? i feel like dual screens with the influx of obscene threats now available in the tier between the aforementioned 3, torn-t, braviary-h, enamorus-t, and unburden goofiness could possibly make a discussion on it worthwhile again. just throwing things around though and im not very sure how i feel abt it atm but screens archetypes have felt very egregious to handle to me.

 

[ochoagenalyn]

Some early thoughts.

• Iron Hands is pure evil..... especially under screens/terrain, you need to bring a Skeledirge or Quagsire otherwise at least 2 of your mons are getting destroyed.
• Kleavor is great, also don't use Azelf/Mew as leads - Meowscarada fills in that role much better imo.
• Screens/HO are the most common, but I see some balances with Dirge pop around too. Bulky sweepers like Cresselia, Enamorus, and mew are common so it's best to pack some Encore or phazing in your team.
• Best H-Arcanine set is Boots with head smash/espeed/rocks/flare blitz; hazards are far too common to run any other item.

 

[GoldenCyber]

Nahh ban G-Molt please, that mon was already crazy good last gen with its set-up options and Berserk. Now imagine dealing with the same mon but with Tera.

Skeledirge dropping is wild. That mon is obnoxiously fat, and can bypass most checks with tera.

UU is going to be a complete madhouse

 

[ThatOneApple]

Kronk (Skeledirge) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off



Goat-Chien (Wo-Chien) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Foul Play
- Rest
- Sleep Talk



MEEP! (Quagsire) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Spikes/Stealth Rock
- Recover

This core is pain to break from my personal experience, get a good fairy and removal and it can sit on pretty much everything

 

[Twilight]

Sets I used

Iron Hands @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 116 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute

Personally, I only have Hydreigon and Iron Hands on my list of Pokemon which are probably too much for the tier and should go sooner than some of the other things. Iron Hands is just too bulky and strong to reliably deal with. I've been using a max Phys Def SD set and it finds so many opportunities to set up or just soft-check so much and win the 1vs1. Tera Fire helps vs Skeli and you could customize to run a more SpD set if you wanted to as well. Hydreigon does the exact same thing as before with Tera Steel + NP Sub. This still blows apart most of the tier with little effort and renders most defensive Pokemon into fodder. Earth Power lets you hit Iron Hands and Alomuk but Flash Cannon is otherwise necessary to hit Enamorous-T and Skeli if it Teras to Fairy.

I hate it. That is all. It's probably fine tbh and the tier might adapt to it like physical mons running Tera Fire more to avoid Wisp for example. It does a good job of shutting down most offensive threats, which at least makes the tier less degenerate. It's just crazy how it does that while also being a strong win condition itself with Torch Song. At least Hydreigon currently exists so I can mald less against it.

I think both of them are kinda overhyped tbh, especially Enamorous-T anyways. The ID + CM sets have potential but we have the means of limiting it from just going infinite and winning out. Cresselia is kinda in the same boat for me, where like yeah Tera Poison has one weakness but this Pokemon is also piss weak unless it is like +3. I have not seen it under screens as Ausma mentioned in their post so perhaps that is another story. Usually slapping Taunt on stuff like Tornadus-T and Alomuk, Encore shenanigans, Trick, etc. Even just powerful breakers have helped me keep them in check easily.

It lost Knock and Defog but it is still very good. Taunt sets literally shut down so much shit on both the defensive and offensive sides of the tier thanks to Regenerator + the Speed tier. NP sets can be very dangerous too with it having the coverage to deal with Flying resists. AV is probably okay if you really need it to function as a pivot into some SpA Pokemon.

Best mon in the tier no cap. Scarf is a great revenge killer and Band makes it into a solid breaker. Boots sets have a lot of versatility in the last slot from Taunt to Spikes/TSpikes. It can function as a lead for HO too. Faster than Greninja is a blessing and it also has priority. Flower Trick is also just an insane move lol.

Personally, I believe Gapdos should be given a chance and I think it is possible to play around. It mainly wants to spam Brave Bird on Choiced sets to attempt to claim as many kills as it can as Fighting resists are quite abundant. I find it can wear itself down pretty quickly as a result. Stuff like Hippowdon, Slowbro, and Alomomola are good initial pivots to scout and can Helmet chip, though no Regen on Hippo makes it a little harder there. I think BU + Roost/Taunt sets have the potential to be more annoying though.

Pleasantly happy with my experience using Alomuk. I think it does a good job of handling foes like Gengar, Greninja, Meow, etc. It is actually one of the better responses to NP Hydra assuming no EP as Drain Punch lets it win out. I personally have been using Taunt in the last slot but you could also consider stuff like Toxic. You could also do a fourth coverage and run AV with Wish support maybe.

I feel like Hippo is just one of the best defensive glues you can opt for right now. Helps against Hands, Sun, Harcanine, Gapdos, etc. Whirlwind lets you ease the matchup against the double dance stuff and Stone Edge helps against the Thundies. Of course, you kinda want a mixed spread to more reliably handle some of these matchups but Hippo has always been pretty flexible in that regard.

Slowbro is still better than Slowking. Can't change my mind.

I have not run into screens yet and I personally don't have too much fun playing them so probably won't give it a try for a bit. I have not seen GalarTres so I genuinely am not sure where that mon falls but I know what it was capable of last gen so I can kinda see it. To respond to ausma's point on Light Clay, I don't see the harm in the item being banned tbh if there is enough proof that it is an issue. It was banned last gen as well so it's not like it is unheard of. We already had a lot of good set up Pokemon like Tyranitar and have only gained more dangerous ones tbh. However, to reiterate, I haven't seen or played against screens so I can't provide an actual strong opinion as of now. The tier is still developing and my opinions on some stuff might change but I'm pretty confident about Hydra and Hands at the very least.

 

[Moutemoute]

Will make a serious post later, but rn had to post this cuz' uu ladder players are copping on Donphan..

 

[AJ]

I mean it’s way too early to tell, but as of right now the best and most dominant Pokémon that dropped in my opinion are meowscarada kleavor and skeledirge. Too early to see if these Pokémon are broken but definitely need to keep an eye out on them. Iron hands iron leaves and hydreigon were all previously banned so I doubt any of them will be bad. Will be cool to see how they factor into new meta gameplay.

 

[turtledoggo1]

First real-ish time playing UU this gen and got pretty high on ladder (1720 until i fell lol). Wanted to share some thoughts on the experience since it was quite fun and brings me back to SS NU days lol. This meta is honestly really enjoyable, a lot more balanced than what I originally anticipated. Perhaps it was because I was overprepping though (with both Scream Tail + Tink on a team to spam Encore), but I wouldn't say there was a single mon that was super overbearing or "op" in the games I've played. I also love how I can ladder at like 2 AM and still climb high ladder quickly, which is super cool. Anyways, here's some thoughts on mons playing UU for first time this gen.

At first I thought this was pretty broken (maybe it is lol) but after some time playing with, and against it, it has actually felt pretty healthy. I particularly enjoy its priority and useful resistances, which can pick off and threaten many "broken" attackers that are roaming the ladder. I prefer Boots + Morning Sun to CB or Scarf, as I think in this hazard-centric meta it dies quite quickly, though it also probably just depends on the team structure (balance)

I haven't actually found Hydreigon to be too crazy to deal with. Even when I wasn't spamming double encore Fairies, it didn't pose * that * big of a threat to my teams, and I often found it would be quite easy to revenge kill/scout/threaten out. Can definitely see how it'd become overbearing later down the line tho, but I think it feels pretty fine right now imo

I really enjoyed using this with Spikes and H-Arcanine, as I think they're all pretty complimentary together. Specs is devastating, and is pretty decent at Spin-blocking too (well, servicable). I've found though, that its speed can be quite dissapointing at times, and there is definitely a prediction factor many games with Cyclizar/Hydreigon/Wo-Chien etc... all being quite annoying. Still, very cool.

These things can get out of hand so quickly it's crazy. At the same time tho, it probably just depends how they're played around (and the team)- since I always forget about their weak armor abilities and just attack with a SE physical attack. Seem pretty fishy but once they get going, damn it's scary.

So much better than I expected it to be, and can get crazy value for a misplayed turn/wrong prediction. I don't have much to say but yeah, it's terrifying (and so powerful in such little punch). From what i've also seen so far, is that the most common set is Loaded Dice + Spore and one wrong move can mean endless barrage of attacks...

Lumping these two fighters together but I haven't found them very impactful in the games I've played so far. Perhaps the former will become more prominent once more Pokemon get banned, and both will probably be more explored later on too, but I've found them semi-okay to be able to pivot around and revenge later on. They're both still terrifying tho, just not as terrifying as I initially expected.

Honestly so good, and so much better than I thought when looking at the tier. It just absorbs hits and is super annoying with Knock + Poison (touch). Gets worn down kinda easily though.

I feel like there's not a single game where this doesn't have some type of value. The speed tier is insane, crazy pivot, revenge killer, can be a hazard setter (though that hasn't felt super good to me), and in general, fills so many roles.

Perhaps it's the fact I'm still quite new to this tier (since these were like, always used), but damn, Encore is absolutely insane. It keeps in check so many explosive mons (Goltres/Cresselia/Hydreigon, etc...) and in general, I think both are super good right now. I wanted to highlight Scream Tail in particular, since I didn't see very much on ladder, which I think is a shame, since it keeps so many dangerous mons at bay.

But yeah, this post kinda just turned into a cluster of random mons I wanted to talk about lol. Wanted to make a post tho, since I always find these posts interesting to read whenever a new meta emerges. Overall super fun meta, I've been having a huge amount of fun, most fun in a while with mons.

 

[gulch]

Perhaps it's the fact I'm still quite new to this tier (since these were like, always used), but damn, Encore is absolutely insane.

But yeah, this post kinda just turned into a cluster of random mons I wanted to talk about lol. Wanted to make a post tho, since I always find these posts interesting to read whenever a new meta emerges. Overall super fun meta, I've been having a huge amount of fun, most fun in a while with mons.

While I think this is partly a byproduct of wild west shit going on, UU this gen has always been very tight with Encore, turns out that most of the biggest threats are setup mons in a meta where you can be any type you want. In fact, it was partly the reason Grafaiai was even viable in ye olden days. Glad you're enjoying the meta!

 

[Bice]

Kronk (Skeledirge) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off



Goat-Chien (Wo-Chien) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Foul Play
- Rest
- Sleep Talk



MEEP! (Quagsire) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Spikes/Stealth Rock
- Recover

This core is pain to break from my personal experience, get a good fairy and removal and it can sit on pretty much everything

Wanted to add that Alolan Muk is a fantastic partner to this core, takes on most fairies really well (except Tinkaton, and even that is soundly handled by Quagsire) and Skeledirge greatly appreciates its ability to spread poison so it can smack the opponents with Hex. In exchange, the core (especially Wo-Chien) handles the physical attackers that Muk hates.

sprite credit
smokin joe rudeboy (Muk-Alola) @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Touch
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Protect
- Taunt / Drain Punch / Toxic

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

This mon is absolutely a monster! 49% chance of hitting a poison with pjab and 30% with any other move makes it such a bigger threat. Knock off + pjab is a really scary move combination as it makes u vulnurable to hazards and also eating poisons. Smth like decid-h, hippo, slither wing, wo chien, ttar, florges, sylv can switch into knock off but they also have to suffer the poisons... which can make them really not smth you want to switch into

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1896848007-zn3r5uxdxn3xbqub4lqbg6lqhfve5eipw (this replay shows the power of muk-a, being able to click knock on many things and force progress by spreading passive damage, and its ability to wall slowking which gives it free turns to whatever it wants)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1896844504-36t2g4413k0e3yw9ai5ttv745fl4tp3pw (this shows muk-a ability to just trade with a lot of things well, it has great bulk which allows it to even take powerful hits and just return with knock offs and 49% poisons via poison jab. It also shows how good the typing is at stopping would be threats such as slowbro-g, cress, enamorus, gengar, and even neutral hits it can eat very well as shown in it taking absolutely nothing from 2 torch song from skeledrige even while being burnt)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1896502303-cv1eqzpogpygyxmnce7c5ve33i44op4pw (this replay shows how hard it is for some teams to switch into muk-a. Sure tinkaton can switch in but its losing its item and even quag which should be able to take it on 1v1 loses its item and gets poisoned as a result. It also makes pokemon that would be stall threats much easier to deal with thanks to the poisons that it spreads such as on skeledirge making blissey able to 1v1 it)

This is really an amazing pokemon that I want you guys to try out, it has amazing utility and its hard as balls to switch into. EVen ttar, bisharp, or hydreigon dont want to switch in as you can just drain punch them and recover your health.

Muk-Alola @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Protect
- Drain Punch

This is the set Im running, it really is amazing what it can do!

 

[somethingaboutsomething]

can we ban iron hands already?

 

[carbonlifeform]

Yooooooo! With Iron Hands un-banned (at least for now), I thought I'd pop in to share some experiences from running my favorite new `mon in OU and get some input on how things differ with the threats down here and some adaptations that seem like they might be useful to keep Iron Hands manageable because, man, I do not want it to be stuck in UUBL Hell.

First up, some of my favorite techs in OU that seem like they won't work out down here:

• Low Kick over Drain Punch. Low Kick reached 100-120 BP against so many of the top threats in OU that it was often times worth giving up the extra recovery to take less damage overall by getting 1/2HKOs instead of 2/3HKOs. Not gonna take the time in calc to do the comparisons here until the meta settles down, but I'm guessing that won't be the case in UU.
• Heavy Slam (especially with Tera Steel). Even if the weight factor is more in Hands' favor, it looks like there are lots more active Steel resists down here. Though this may wind up being a necessity on certain sets to handle Enamorus-T and Scream Tail (and Gardevoir to a lesser extent)
• Ditching Electric attacks altogether to focus on coverage feels unwise down here. Losing your best tool for Gyarados, Quaquaval, Slowbro/king, Alomomola, and probably others feels short-sighted.

Some techs that seem still useful and possibly stronger:

• AV Hands is a bear to bring down, even without Tera, the only question is what coverage moves are best for it in this meta.
• My favorite anti-offense set (ID/BP with Whirlwind and coverage of your choice) could have some value here.
• More defensive sets with Lefties + Protect + Drain Punch + coverage have been the thing to carry me most recently, and while Drain Punch + Ice Punch + EQ doesn't seem as strong down here, there's probably something to be discovered

A couple of other things I'm noting:

• Defog is actually useful down here, and TFlame appears to be the top defog option. That makes Flame Body a huge issue, especially against predicted Drain Punches, which means Punching Gloves are a borderline necessity on offensive sets.
• Alternatively, Tera Fire *could* be a lot stronger defensively in UU to avoid burns, especially on AV or, even better, AOA sets with Booster Energy that just could not work in OU. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of targets I'm seeing where Fire Type coverage would be more useful than Ice (assuming Drain Punch is already in the kit), and it's a shame for Iron Hands to pick a Tera Type with only defense in mind. Also makes you weaker into the water types.
• Volt Switch could be an actual option for more defensive sets with no analog to Great Tusk present to block it and then destroy your whole career.
• I have no clue what Speed benchmark I should be shooting for. In OU, I nearly always aimed for 173 speed (148 EVs) to creep anything trying to creep 4 Spe Corviknight. Any equivalents down here?

Some threats that are well-primed to handle Iron Hands in UU:

• Dirge dropped (at least for now) and is a brutal check to Iron Hands, especially with Tera Fairy. Against SpDef versions, you can 2HKO with minimally-invested EQ before it clicks the funny button, but afterwards there's just not a lot to be done. PhysDef versions are always hell.
• Wo-Chien can also set on pretty much anything post-tera with Ruination and Leech Seed both using Iron Hands' massive HP pool against it.
• I can't see Rotom-H being any easier to handle than Washtom is in OU, with it actively resisting/being immune to Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, EQ, and Heavy Slam. Easier to wear down over a match than Dirge or Wo-Chien, but Wisp is still death for Iron Hands
• PhysDef Rocky Helmet Gastro seems well-equipped to take on anything except SD variants
• Enamorus-T can come in even against +2 Iron Hands, click Tera Fairy, and out-heal anything except Heavy Slam/Iron Head with Draining Kiss because Tera Fairy Draining Kiss is the most obscene thing on the planet.
• Scream Tail can encore you into a fighting move or SD and proceed to do Scream Tail things.
• Red Card Mimikyu can remove SD/Booster Energy boosts and is hard for Hands to switch back into once it has an SD up.
• Unless/until Garchomp/Treads fall, Krookodile seems like the offensive ground type that could be most primed to rise to help handle Iron Hands with strong EQ pressure, even if it can't switch directly in. Intimidate also adds utility in scouting against an aggressive tera use to avoid the EQ KO.

Some partners that could push Iron Hands over the top:

• SD Iron Hands + Band Meowscarada just delete stuff together, though Heatom is better prepared to handle the duo than Washtom was.
• Defensive Iron Hands sets, on the other hand, love Arboliva to amp up passive healing and mitigate EQ damage without relying on tera.
• Krookodile could also be a good partner for Iron Hands. I had some solid success running Iron Hands with Tera Ground Scarf Chomp to clean up matches once Ground-immunes were gone. Moxie can make Krookodile even stronger in that role situationally.
• Talonflame and Heatom both cover Iron Hands' weaknesses to ground and fairy while providing useful pivoting and status (I ran Iron Hands with Tflame a lot in OU, especially alongside Tera Steel AV Iron Hands, and that tandem is just beautiful together)
• Zoroark-H is good at luring in Iron Hands' counters and deleting them with Grass Knot/Shadow Ball.
• HWish Gardevoir. Nobody wants to see Iron Hands come back from the brink of death to clean up a weakened team.

 

[MrE]

Second how good AMuk is, him and Thund-t are my favs out of the drops from OU, Thund-T is a bit silly down here though with 145 spatk.

 

[Moutemoute]

Alright I played quite a few games so this is the moment I'm talking about my feeling about the tier/shifts and what may be too much for the tier.

Too good to stay ?

Iron Hands was already insane before it was banned and I think it's still too good for the sanity of this tier. It's almost impossible to OHKO it and it's able to dent a lot of the tier thanks to its movepool. Skeleridge need to be aware of Earthquake's variants and can't really beat Tera Fire variants, even with a massive investment in physical defense. Its typing isn't too bad either and allows me to check things such as Meowscarada, Scizor and Hydreigon. It's really hard to play around this Pokémon without dedicated answers and that's why I think it's a nuisance for the tier, especially in an offensive metagame filled by offensive threats. It's one of the best Pokémon atm imo.

Hear me out, Skeledirge is the best Pokémon in this tier. It can be played in any team which isn't a HO, it's able to check so much Pokémon in the long run thanks to its bulk and Slack Off while also being able to act a dangerous win condition, like bruh. Torch Song is so dumb it's kinda crazy. I played mostly specially defensive variants but I tried offensive ones (max HP / SpA) with Slack Off + 3 attacks and it's able to pressure a lot of things during the whole game. I'm not entirely sure it's broken but god damn it's an insane Pokémon and I feel like it checks too much things..it's a glue mon right now but I think it may be too good.

Hydreigon was disgusting when it was banned because Sub Nasty Plot sets didn't have great answers..well this hasn't changed at all ! I have not seen a lot of people complaining (yet) about it but I feel like it's a menace under the radar. It's able to setup vs a lot of passive Pokémon and it's one of the best check to the omnipresent Skeledirge. Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon is still insane to deal with. We have threats with more things (quite a few actually) but even when I'm taking this into account, I feel like this Pokémon isn't healthy for the tier. I really would like to hear people's opinion on this Pokémon !

Really great !

My old friend Breloom.. back in SM it was so hard to deal with this Pokémon and it's still really great right now. It has great checks such as Glowbro or Enamorus-Therian and many offensive Pokémon can threaten it (even if some of them can't really revenge kill it due to Mach Punch) but even I take this into account, I feel like Spore + 3 attacks has so much potential. Of course Breloom is frail and quite slow but it's able to pressure effectively a lot of Pokémon if it can outspeed them or force a switch. Spore is..Spore, annoying to play against. Enamorus-T can mess with it thanks to Overcoat but need to play around Rock Tomb while Glowbro doesn't like Spore and have to run Safety Goggles to counter it at 100%.

Armarouge's brother joined the tier ! Ceruledge is a really good Pokémon because Bitter Blade is an insane move and allows Ceruledge to have a better staying power. I've been messing with SD variants alongside Weak Armor and Bulk Up ones with Flash Fire and both of them are good imo. The second one allows Ceruledge to be a good check to Skeledirge, especially when it's paired with a good Tera. Tera Normal is surprinsingly fun since it allows Ceruledge to counter Skeledirge (immunity to Ghost-type moves and Fire-type attacks thanks to Flash Fire). This Pokémon also has some underrated tool such as Destiny Bond which can be clutch imo.

Another S tier contender imo. Meowscarada is a fabulous offensive threat. Its speed tier is insane since it allows it to outspeed Greninja, Cyclizar or Tornadus-T. On the other hand it has many tools it can abuse such as Knock Off, Flower Trick, U-turn, Spikes and Toxic Spikes or even Sucker Punch. It has already proved its viability as a great user of both Choice Scarf and Choice Band or a good offensive pivot thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots. This Pokémon may become an issue soon once all the broken Pokémon are gone, but for now, it's a top tier threat.

And now ?

That's all for me for today. There is a lot of Pokémon I would like to talk about such as Arcanine-H, Glowbro, Cresselia, Enamorus-T or Tornadus-T but I feel like this post is already quite nice and it's quite late in France atm. It's good to see that old staples such as Tinkaton, Salamence or Greninja are still really great in this new format while other such as Wo-Chien are not as common. I'm looking forward to see how the metagame gonna develop but I feel like it's gonna be a ton of fun !

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Alright I played quite a few games so this is the moment I'm talking about my feeling about the tier/shifts and what may be too much for the tier.

Too good to stay ?

Iron Hands was already insane before it was banned and I think it's still too good for the sanity of this tier. It's almost impossible to OHKO it and it's able to dent a lot of the tier thanks to its movepool. Skeleridge need to be aware of Earthquake's variants and can't really beat Tera Fire variants, even with a massive investment in physical defense. Its typing isn't too bad either and allows me to check things such as Meowscarada, Scizor and Hydreigon. It's really hard to play around this Pokémon without dedicated answers and that's why I think it's a nuisance for the tier, especially in an offensive metagame filled by offensive threats. It's one of the best Pokémon atm imo.

Hear me out, Skeledirge is the best Pokémon in this tier. It can be played in any team which isn't a HO, it's able to check so much Pokémon in the long run thanks to its bulk and Slack Off while also being able to act a dangerous win condition, like bruh. Torch Song is so dumb it's kinda crazy. I played mostly specially defensive variants but I tried offensive ones (max HP / SpA) with Slack Off + 3 attacks and it's able to pressure a lot of things during the whole game. I'm not entirely sure it's broken but god damn it's an insane Pokémon and I feel like it checks too much things..it's a glue mon right now but I think it may be too good.

Hydreigon was disgusting when it was banned because Sub Nasty Plot sets didn't have great answers..well this hasn't changed at all ! I have not seen a lot of people complaining (yet) about it but I feel like it's a menace under the radar. It's able to setup vs a lot of passive Pokémon and it's one of the best check to the omnipresent Skeledirge. Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon is still insane to deal with. We have threats with more things (quite a few actually) but even when I'm taking this into account, I feel like this Pokémon isn't healthy for the tier. I really would like to hear people's opinion on this Pokémon !

Really great !

My old friend Breloom.. back in SM it was so hard to deal with this Pokémon and it's still really great right now. It has great checks such as Glowbro or Enamorus-Therian and many offensive Pokémon can threaten it (even if some of them can't really revenge kill it due to Mach Punch) but even I take this into account, I feel like Spore + 3 attacks has so much potential. Of course Breloom is frail and quite slow but it's able to pressure effectively a lot of Pokémon if it can outspeed them or force a switch. Spore is..Spore, annoying to play against. Enamorus-T can mess with it thanks to Overcoat but need to play around Rock Tomb while Glowbro doesn't like Spore and have to run Safety Goggles to counter it at 100%.

Armarouge's brother joined the tier ! Ceruledge is a really good Pokémon because Bitter Blade is an insane move and allows Ceruledge to have a better staying power. I've been messing with SD variants alongside Weak Armor and Bulk Up ones with Flash Fire and both of them are good imo. The second one allows Ceruledge to be a good check to Skeledirge, especially when it's paired with a good Tera. Tera Normal is surprinsingly fun since it allows Ceruledge to counter Skeledirge (immunity to Ghost-type moves and Fire-type attacks thanks to Flash Fire). This Pokémon also has some underrated tool such as Destiny Bond which can be clutch imo.

Another S tier contender imo. Meowscarada is a fabulous offensive threat. Its speed tier is insane since it allows it to outspeed Greninja, Cyclizar or Tornadus-T. On the other hand it has many tools it can abuse such as Knock Off, Flower Trick, U-turn, Spikes and Toxic Spikes or even Sucker Punch. It has already proved its viability as a great user of both Choice Scarf and Choice Band or a good offensive pivot thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots. This Pokémon may become an issue soon once all the broken Pokémon are gone, but for now, it's a top tier threat.

And now ?

That's all for me for today. There is a lot of Pokémon I would like to talk about such as Arcanine-H, Glowbro or Tornadus-T but I feel like this post is already quite nice and it's quite late in France atm. It's good to see that old staples such as Tinkaton, Salamence or Greninja are still really great in this new format while other such as Wo-Chien are not as common. I'm looking forward to see how the metagame gonna develop but I feel like it's gonna be a ton of fun !

Yeah I agree on the brokens but moutemoute, what is your opinion on ?
To me its even worse to deal with than

as double dance sets are somehow dumber than they were last gen, as tera blast gives it an extra coverage option to pick over plot sometimes, and tera can be used to its advantage in general to make it easier for it to set up on its double dance set. It can still pull the same broken double dance substitute sets from last gen.

 

[Lizzie]

Alright I played quite a few games so this is the moment I'm talking about my feeling about the tier/shifts and what may be too much for the tier.

Too good to stay ?

Iron Hands was already insane before it was banned and I think it's still too good for the sanity of this tier. It's almost impossible to OHKO it and it's able to dent a lot of the tier thanks to its movepool. Skeleridge need to be aware of Earthquake's variants and can't really beat Tera Fire variants, even with a massive investment in physical defense. Its typing isn't too bad either and allows me to check things such as Meowscarada, Scizor and Hydreigon. It's really hard to play around this Pokémon without dedicated answers and that's why I think it's a nuisance for the tier, especially in an offensive metagame filled by offensive threats. It's one of the best Pokémon atm imo.

Hear me out, Skeledirge is the best Pokémon in this tier. It can be played in any team which isn't a HO, it's able to check so much Pokémon in the long run thanks to its bulk and Slack Off while also being able to act a dangerous win condition, like bruh. Torch Song is so dumb it's kinda crazy. I played mostly specially defensive variants but I tried offensive ones (max HP / SpA) with Slack Off + 3 attacks and it's able to pressure a lot of things during the whole game. I'm not entirely sure it's broken but god damn it's an insane Pokémon and I feel like it checks too much things..it's a glue mon right now but I think it may be too good.

Hydreigon was disgusting when it was banned because Sub Nasty Plot sets didn't have great answers..well this hasn't changed at all ! I have not seen a lot of people complaining (yet) about it but I feel like it's a menace under the radar. It's able to setup vs a lot of passive Pokémon and it's one of the best check to the omnipresent Skeledirge. Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon is still insane to deal with. We have threats with more things (quite a few actually) but even when I'm taking this into account, I feel like this Pokémon isn't healthy for the tier. I really would like to hear people's opinion on this Pokémon !

These are the mons that have stood out to me so far as well. I feel the meta is overall fairly balanced and you can reasonably prepare for most things, and i've not found any of these to be completely gamebreaking. When it comes to iron hands, I feel it's counterplay is a lot more reliable than it was pre home and it's limited to fewer viable sets which also makes it easier to prepare for. Ultimately the biggest problem I have with this mon is that while you can check it it's so bulky that it sticks around forever and ultimately gets multiple oppurtunities to fish for hax. Unless you're running quag I feel like this mon just spams thunder punch so freely and if it ever gets the para it's looking for you can just get run through. I'm honestly not 100% sold on this being banworthy but it feels like the most obvious potential ban so far.

I think dirge is a pretty complicated mon in the tier. I really felt it wasn't a problem at first but as time went on I started feeling more and more like I was just enjoying using the broken mon and didn't want it banned lol. I do think dirge clearly brings a lot of positives to the tier, it's probably the best defensive mon we've had so far, but there's an overwhelming feeling in a lot of balance vs balance or bo vs bo games that the game literally just comes down to whose skeledirge wins faster. Ultimately I do feel like there's a lot of counterplay to this mon, hydreigon does pretty well vs it, cyclizar can come in and threaten knock off pretty freely, and in general pivoting + encore or pivoting + status can hold it off, but you could easily make a case that it's overcentralising and warping the tier around itself, and I'm not sure where I stand on it.

On paper hydreigon does the exact same thing it did when it got banned but having played with it and against it it feels much more manageable. Notably sub sets get taken on by mons like alomuk, iron hands, and to some extent even mons like breloom and hisuian decidueye. I've had more success using nasty plot 3 attacks with earth power, but this set still has problems breaking through some of the mons above, and in general it feels like a struggle to get this on the field sometimes. The meta is faster and there's stronger attacks flying around. I still think this has the potential to be completely dumb but it's being held back somewhat rn.

Other Thoughts
This might be the most boring pick ever for favourite drop but it feels great to use this mon again, it's typing is so nice at the moment and it can be a pretty nice win con. I still like running colbur cm the best because I find colbur really nice for scouting meowscarada, and I've found it benefits a lot from the support of the next mon here.

Rillaboom is kind of a weird mon atm. It has some pretty nice applications on bo thanks to it's solid bulk and ability to hit hard, but it's not really anything special without its ability. Grassy terrain is just great, whether it's healing 12% per turn with tinkaton or easily tanking iron hands eq with skeledirge. I also experimented with rillaboom ho a bit, it felt pretty mu fishy but I had fun using it.

I feel like this is the scarfer the tier has been waiting for, the damage output is insane at times and it's typing is actually kind of cool defensively. It can still struggle vs some teams, I found it hard to break mola when I used it, but if you like nuking things with brave bird then this is the mon for you.

Easily the most disappointing mon I've used so far, I found it very rarely hit the field and did almost nothing when it did come out, maybe I'll have better luck with therian.

Overall I'm just loving the tier rn, it has this weird balance that I find really enjoyable, and I hope it maintains a similar sort of identity as it progresses.