Alrighty here are my vr takes. I have not touched a game in venu meta because i was very busy trying to figure out how to use surf to eat up a morpeko as a cramorant, so if anything is invalidated by venu thats why.
S -> A+
Looking at the VR, all the mons in S - A+ are ones that I should be considering on every team, and I don't think that tomb is Mesprit/Sandslash/Lax level. It's not the most splashable Mesprit switch-in anymore - I've been using Magneton for that since encore/uturn/sr/psynoise feels like its emerged as the #1 Mesprit set. On top of that, Hitmontop can 2HKO tomb with Triple Axel, so now your fighting check loses to a fighting type.
EDIT: switched nom from A -> A+. Yo Cho has shown me the way. I guess this is what happens when you pre-write noms and then realize you lose to the mon you were writing about. I even had it nommed to A- originally (eww ik). I still think it's valid to say that people have more experience playing around tomb and that Hitmontop gives it one less opportunity to switch in and set up. I originally wanted to nom it down because of that, and I think those points are still worth bringing up because I think Top was not on the radar when tomb originally rose to S, even though me underestimating Spiritomb is exactly why it deserves to be S.
A+ -> B+
5th best electric. I think it comes down to the fact that the teams relying on grass types and other spdef wall (Lax) to beat electrics are as Mowtom-proof as you get. Its offensive and defensive typing are good, but it doesn't have the speed stat or bulk to do what you want a grass-type to do. You're going to stack Mowtom with a real Basc/Electric switch, and its the only Electric in the meta that doesn't check the other electrics easily (besides Jolteon/Lanturn, sometimes). Tera Blast Poison is good to be fair, but now you lose really hard to Basculin.
Keep A+
I think this mon is fine where it is. I agree with zause that its best set is AV, even though I still have to go helm sometimes since I need a poison switch-in. If it's rising, it better be going to S- with something like Lax, since I don't think anything* is on the same level as Mesprit.
A+ -> S
This one, however, might be on Mesprit level. I think it's always good and decently splashable. Even when your opponent has a check to Poison/Fighting, this meta is easy to chip stuff down in, and surely you can answer a surprise tera poison without your now-dead Mesprit. It has a surprising amount of flexibility for a mon locked into SD/CC/Gunk, since trick, sub, and trailblaze can all be used to round out its kit.
A- -> A
2nd best removal. I think that being able to threaten Taxel/CC/Spin makes it worth considering on most teams, especially if you can't afford to run the somewhat passive sandslash.
A- -> A+
I LOVE MAGNETON. I think this guy is the best Mesprit switch, and threatens almost every mon with Flash Cannon and Electric moves. There is not a single mon in the meta that is comfortable switching into Flash Cannon and Electric moves. Except Lanturn. I've lost to lanturn on ladder before.
UR -> A+
Close enough. Welcome back Floatzel. I think that Basculin is harder to deal with offensively since scarf makes it the fastest mon in the tier, and it has real coverage unlike Floatzel. However, it is noticeably weaker, and defensive grasses can actually switch into this mon reliably because Tera Water Adapt Wave Crash sucks. Psychic fangs also abuses the best tera in the meta (poison).
B+ -> B
Nah. The only niche this has over Mesprit is being ghost and its speed stat. It needs specs to make its 80BP moves feel like they do damage, and then it's still a fairly easy to switch into normal type. Scarf is weak snd np dkiss is gunk shot food. It offers good utility in Dbond and Trick, but this is the Encore tier, you aren't running Mismag exclusively for dbond.
B+ -> A-
I think that Weezing is the fast utility poison, and Muk is the slow defensive poison. They are both good but they offer very different roles. Sometimes you want a Heasel switch that can cripple mons with wisp and chip with helmet. Other times you want a something that is 4-5hko'd by most mons and can spread poison back. Weezing is more widely applicable, but I don't think we should be sleeping on Muk either.
Keep UR? C?
Does Liquid Ooze give it enough of a niche to deserve a ranking? With Bello gone I don't think so, and I don't think IDBP and Encore give it enough of a niche over Muk or Weezing (especially since Muk has just better stats) but it's not the most unusable mon. I think it might be too bad for C tier though, and I'm only talking about it to open discussion because I could see it being ranked.
B+ -> A-
Polter is one incredible move from a mon that can also force Lax to rest with its other moves, and there really isn't a better sucker punch user in the tier. On top of that, it has an incredible utility and some form of recovery between horn leech, sitrus harvest, and rest natural cure.
B+ -> B
Not sure if I'm sleeping on Persian or not, but it's not a mon I consider building with. Yes, it does pop off whenever I see it because its more or less a slightly worse dark type Mesprit, but I don't think it's good enough for B+.
B+ -> B-
These two are not really forces in the meta. Virizion's chance came when Floatzel left, and it hasn't seen any notable appearances since then. Poison being so good into the meta isn't good for Viriz, and to an extent, Thwackey too. I don't think Gterrain or grassy glide are good enough for Thwackey to be B+.
B -> B-
It's a stall mon. It's not splashable. It has utility, but it's not a good utility mon since it only comes in on special attackers that aren't fire or steel. It's equal to Articuno imo.
B -> B+
I don't think the gap between Pa'u and Baile (the fire one) is that big, and for what the mon does with QD and tera, I think it's better suited for B+.
B -> C (or just UR it it might be that bad)
I'm a Poli hater. It's only good resistances are fire and water, and those mean nothing when it's weak to Flying, Psychic, Grass, Electric, and Fairy, which is a list of types carried by literally every special attacker in the tier. Basculin is also going to be running PsyFangs. Frankly, if you want a tera hog that checks Bascu, run Dipplin or Shaymin or something because they have real resistances.
B -> stay here
I think Lurantis is best rn as a physdef grass defogger, with one of superpower/leaf storm and knock. It's bulky and it has recovery. If you are slotting superpower/leafstorm/defog this mon is C-tier, but it's the 3rd best removal mon imo. (also, notably a pre-venu opinion)
252 Atk Adaptability Tera Psychic Basculin Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lurantis: 114-136 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lurantis: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
B- -> A-
This is criminal. Sableye has prankster encore, wisp that can hit the #1 water pivot now, prankster recover, and knock. This is the utility that gets you into the A ranks, unlike whatever Mismagius offers. It has a perfect typing to switch into the tier's physical attackers on top of that. It found its way onto the team Fish/Esteb4n brought W1, and that team alone should be enough for this mon to at minimum rise to B+.
B- -> B
Our spikers are few, and Froslass has an amazing typing that threatens every SR setter not named Regirock. I'm not sure if that's worth it rising a rank objectively, but I think it's more usable than Cuno/Cryo/Orthworm*
C -> B+
This is the breakout star of ZUPL. Mabo saw a lot of usage (especially for a C-tier guy) and after trying to prep for a Mabo spammer, it's very hard to switch into. Now, it does not OHKO Mesprit which is cringe, but that's the biggest knock against it.
C -> B+
As someone who singlehandedly lost to Victreebel I have to nom this mon higher as a defensive pick with Strength Sap. Now take this down a couple pegs for Venu.
C+ -> B
I think Medi fits more in line with Typhlosion, and Magmortar than with Drifblim, Shiftry, and Hitmonchan. Psychic is a goated offensive type in this meta and is worth considering as a breaker.
C+/C -> B-
I mean, we'll take what we can get in terms of rockers/spikers and grounds. Neither mon is perfect but they has the necessary utility and typings to be considered for a serious team.
UR -> C
During Week 7, I found myself in a spot where I needed a rocker that didn't compound a grass weakness and could double as a backup Weezing. Mesprit should have been the default answer, but I really liked the extra Whimsicott assurance that Torkoal provided, and it was better into pads Hitmontop. You just run it like any physdef sandslash, weezing, or mesprit, and it has EQ for the poisons and Lava Plume to burn physical attackers. It wasn't bad at all and I think it rounded out the team perfectly. I'm not sure if one showing (vs gterrain) is enough to get a mon ranked, but I think it's more useful than Toedscruel and Komala imo. And besides, it popped off and by doing exactly what I brought it on for.
S -> A+EDIT: switched nom from A -> A+. Yo Cho has shown me the way. I guess this is what happens when you pre-write noms and then realize you lose to the mon you were writing about. I even had it nommed to A- originally (eww ik). I still think it's valid to say that people have more experience playing around tomb and that Hitmontop gives it one less opportunity to switch in and set up. I originally wanted to nom it down because of that, and I think those points are still worth bringing up because I think Top was not on the radar when tomb originally rose to S, even though me underestimating Spiritomb is exactly why it deserves to be S.
A+ -> B+5th best electric. I think it comes down to the fact that the teams relying on grass types and other spdef wall (Lax) to beat electrics are as Mowtom-proof as you get. Its offensive and defensive typing are good, but it doesn't have the speed stat or bulk to do what you want a grass-type to do. You're going to stack Mowtom with a real Basc/Electric switch, and its the only Electric in the meta that doesn't check the other electrics easily (besides Jolteon/Lanturn, sometimes). Tera Blast Poison is good to be fair, but now you lose really hard to Basculin.
Keep A+I think this mon is fine where it is. I agree with zause that its best set is AV, even though I still have to go helm sometimes since I need a poison switch-in. If it's rising, it better be going to S- with something like Lax, since I don't think anything* is on the same level as Mesprit.
A+ -> SThis one, however, might be on Mesprit level. I think it's always good and decently splashable. Even when your opponent has a check to Poison/Fighting, this meta is easy to chip stuff down in, and surely you can answer a surprise tera poison without your now-dead Mesprit. It has a surprising amount of flexibility for a mon locked into SD/CC/Gunk, since trick, sub, and trailblaze can all be used to round out its kit.
A- -> A2nd best removal. I think that being able to threaten Taxel/CC/Spin makes it worth considering on most teams, especially if you can't afford to run the somewhat passive sandslash.
A- -> A+I LOVE MAGNETON. I think this guy is the best Mesprit switch, and threatens almost every mon with Flash Cannon and Electric moves. There is not a single mon in the meta that is comfortable switching into Flash Cannon and Electric moves. Except Lanturn. I've lost to lanturn on ladder before.
UR -> A+Close enough. Welcome back Floatzel. I think that Basculin is harder to deal with offensively since scarf makes it the fastest mon in the tier, and it has real coverage unlike Floatzel. However, it is noticeably weaker, and defensive grasses can actually switch into this mon reliably because Tera Water Adapt Wave Crash sucks. Psychic fangs also abuses the best tera in the meta (poison).
B+ -> BNah. The only niche this has over Mesprit is being ghost and its speed stat. It needs specs to make its 80BP moves feel like they do damage, and then it's still a fairly easy to switch into normal type. Scarf is weak snd np dkiss is gunk shot food. It offers good utility in Dbond and Trick, but this is the Encore tier, you aren't running Mismag exclusively for dbond.
B+ -> A-I think that Weezing is the fast utility poison, and Muk is the slow defensive poison. They are both good but they offer very different roles. Sometimes you want a Heasel switch that can cripple mons with wisp and chip with helmet. Other times you want a something that is 4-5hko'd by most mons and can spread poison back. Weezing is more widely applicable, but I don't think we should be sleeping on Muk either.
Keep UR? C?Does Liquid Ooze give it enough of a niche to deserve a ranking? With Bello gone I don't think so, and I don't think IDBP and Encore give it enough of a niche over Muk or Weezing (especially since Muk has just better stats) but it's not the most unusable mon. I think it might be too bad for C tier though, and I'm only talking about it to open discussion because I could see it being ranked.
B+ -> A-Polter is one incredible move from a mon that can also force Lax to rest with its other moves, and there really isn't a better sucker punch user in the tier. On top of that, it has an incredible utility and some form of recovery between horn leech, sitrus harvest, and rest natural cure.
B+ -> BNot sure if I'm sleeping on Persian or not, but it's not a mon I consider building with. Yes, it does pop off whenever I see it because its more or less a slightly worse dark type Mesprit, but I don't think it's good enough for B+.
B+ -> B-These two are not really forces in the meta. Virizion's chance came when Floatzel left, and it hasn't seen any notable appearances since then. Poison being so good into the meta isn't good for Viriz, and to an extent, Thwackey too. I don't think Gterrain or grassy glide are good enough for Thwackey to be B+.
B -> B-It's a stall mon. It's not splashable. It has utility, but it's not a good utility mon since it only comes in on special attackers that aren't fire or steel. It's equal to Articuno imo.
B -> B+I don't think the gap between Pa'u and Baile (the fire one) is that big, and for what the mon does with QD and tera, I think it's better suited for B+.
B -> C (or just UR it it might be that bad)I'm a Poli hater. It's only good resistances are fire and water, and those mean nothing when it's weak to Flying, Psychic, Grass, Electric, and Fairy, which is a list of types carried by literally every special attacker in the tier. Basculin is also going to be running PsyFangs. Frankly, if you want a tera hog that checks Bascu, run Dipplin or Shaymin or something because they have real resistances.
B -> stay hereI think Lurantis is best rn as a physdef grass defogger, with one of superpower/leaf storm and knock. It's bulky and it has recovery. If you are slotting superpower/leafstorm/defog this mon is C-tier, but it's the 3rd best removal mon imo. (also, notably a pre-venu opinion)
252 Atk Adaptability Tera Psychic Basculin Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lurantis: 114-136 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lurantis: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
B- -> A-This is criminal. Sableye has prankster encore, wisp that can hit the #1 water pivot now, prankster recover, and knock. This is the utility that gets you into the A ranks, unlike whatever Mismagius offers. It has a perfect typing to switch into the tier's physical attackers on top of that. It found its way onto the team Fish/Esteb4n brought W1, and that team alone should be enough for this mon to at minimum rise to B+.
B- -> BOur spikers are few, and Froslass has an amazing typing that threatens every SR setter not named Regirock. I'm not sure if that's worth it rising a rank objectively, but I think it's more usable than Cuno/Cryo/Orthworm*
C -> B+This is the breakout star of ZUPL. Mabo saw a lot of usage (especially for a C-tier guy) and after trying to prep for a Mabo spammer, it's very hard to switch into. Now, it does not OHKO Mesprit which is cringe, but that's the biggest knock against it.
C -> B+As someone who singlehandedly lost to Victreebel I have to nom this mon higher as a defensive pick with Strength Sap. Now take this down a couple pegs for Venu.
C+ -> BI think Medi fits more in line with Typhlosion, and Magmortar than with Drifblim, Shiftry, and Hitmonchan. Psychic is a goated offensive type in this meta and is worth considering as a breaker.
C+/C -> B-I mean, we'll take what we can get in terms of rockers/spikers and grounds. Neither mon is perfect but they has the necessary utility and typings to be considered for a serious team.
UR -> CDuring Week 7, I found myself in a spot where I needed a rocker that didn't compound a grass weakness and could double as a backup Weezing. Mesprit should have been the default answer, but I really liked the extra Whimsicott assurance that Torkoal provided, and it was better into pads Hitmontop. You just run it like any physdef sandslash, weezing, or mesprit, and it has EQ for the poisons and Lava Plume to burn physical attackers. It wasn't bad at all and I think it rounded out the team perfectly. I'm not sure if one showing (vs gterrain) is enough to get a mon ranked, but I think it's more useful than Toedscruel and Komala imo. And besides, it popped off and by doing exactly what I brought it on for.
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New -> A-
New -> A-
New -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> A-/B+
B- -> B+
C+ -> B
C -> B-
S -> A+
A+ -> A-
A -> A-
B -> B-
B -> B-
C -> C+
A+ -> A
A -> B+
B- -> B/B+
C+ -> B-
UR -> B
Farigiraf from B+ to A-
Pyroar from C to C+
Basculin from UR to A
Zangoose from UR to C
Vikavolt from A- to B+
Ditto from B+ to B
Lycanroc from B+ to B
Exeggutor-Alola from B to B-
Probopass from B- to C+
Sandaconda from B- to C+
Tinkatuff from C+ to UR
Appletun from C to UR
