Swampert Watch Your Mouth!

[Disposable Puppets]

This is a team that has been in the building stages for awhile. It has gone through many different variations with one of the latest ones being seen in this rate my team here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66402

When no one answered that thread, I figured that I was on my own trying to fix this team and the team that you see before it is the result of all the tweaking. It's by no means perfect so I've come here for all the help I can get.

Team at a glance:

Skarmory-Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP/200 Defense/28 Speed/30 Special Defense
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind
Stealth Rock

Skarmory as a lead works well but it is exceptional against slower leads such as Metagross and Swampert. Against these leads I am guaranteed Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes so the match has really started out well in my favor. These entry hazards will help in the early and late game and with it's bulk, Skarmory can always come back in and set up more all the while acting as a phazor as well.

Tyranitar-Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
Crunch
Stone Edge
Pursuit
Superpower

ScarfTar is so amazing for this team with it's ability to switch into Starmie, Celebi and Latias (three pokemon that Cursepert hates) and basically take them out of comission with either Crunch or Stone Edge. I chose superpower over earthquake so I can hit Blissey and Shuca Heatran harder as they can be a nuissance.

Heatran-Leftovers
Timid
252 Special Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
Fire Blast
Dragon Pulse
Toxic
Substitute

Your classic substitute Heatran. His job is to lure out pokemon like Latias, Salamence and Gyarados and either cripple them with toxic, or, in the first two's case, hit them hard with Dragon Pulse. He is also my main switch in to Jirachi and Celebi as those are two problem pokemon if he's not there.

Rotom-H-Choice Scarf
Timid
252 HP/216 Speed/42 Special Attack
Thunderbolt
Trick
Overheat
Shadow Ball

My Spin-Blocker and Revenge Killer. He is my primary answer to Gyarados and Lucario, being able to outspeed them both and revenge them with Thunderbolt and Overheat respectively. Trick helps slow down sweepers such as Suicune and Jirachi as well, and is one of my only hopes to stop them.

Roserade-Leftovers
Calm
252 HP/56 Defense/120 Speed/80 Special Defense
Grass Knot
Rest
Hidden Power Fire
Toxic Spikes

Bulky Waters are a real pain in Swampert's ass. Non-Lead Roserade can be a great switch into them as it can absorb their attacks while hitting them with a Grass Knot to the face. It can even lay down Toxic Spikes so the bulky waters still feel his prescence even after he's gone. Rest is for healing and works great with Natural Cure so he can be ready to spring into action the next time he comes in.

Swampert-Leftovers
252 HP/216 Special Defense/42 Defense
Waterfall
Curse
Rest
Sleep Talk

The star and center of my team, Curspert. Cursepert has quickly become one of my favorite pokemon in the metagame. With my Special Defensive EV spread and a few curses under his belt, this guy is not going to die easily. He is my first switchin to Tyranitar and Heatran and generally does a good job walling them, all the while setting up his own curses.

This team has been mildly successful but I think it can get even better with your help. I'm open to pretty much anything so suggest away!

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Defensive Threats:

Blissey - Blissey is setup bait for Swampert. Not too threatening. Tyranitar can also Low Kick it

Bronzong - More Set-Up Bait for Swampert. Just have to watch out for Explosion and Trick

Celebi - Heatran can come in and get a free sub on it. Tentacruel can setup Toxic Spikes on it and hit it with Sludge Bomb. Rotom-H can Trick/Shadow Ball it and Tyranitar can hit it with Payback if its still alive. Jirachi can also set up on it.

Cresselia - Tyranitar can hit it with Payback. It's also setup bait for Swampert as it can't really do anything back to Swampert except maybe psycho shift a burn, but that's what Rest is for.

Donphan - Setup bait for Swampert.

Dusknoir - More setup bait for Swampert

Forretress - Heatran can come in unharmed and get a free sub. Rotom-H can come in on its Rapid Spin and Trick the Scarf or Overheat depending on the situation. Swampert really doesn't fear much of what it can do except Explosion so it can set up on it as well.

Gliscor - Lead Gliscor are taken care of Tyranitar's Ice Beam. Swampert can handle the rest easily.

Gyarados - Rotom-H is my main answer to it. Tentacruel can also come in for relatively nothing because Defensive Gyarados usually only has waterfall as an attack.

Hippowdon - Skarmory can come in, taunt it and set up spikes all day on it. Swampert can also deal with it too, but roar is really annoying.

Jirachi - Setup bait for Swampert. Heatran can also come in and get a free sub.

Rotom-A - More setup bait for Swampert. Heatran can come in and get a free sub.

Skarmory - Heatran can come in and get a free sub

Snorlax - Rotom-H can Trick Choice Scarf on to Snorlax. Swampert can also set up alongside it and hope to beat it.

Suicune - Very threatening. Rotom-H can trick it a scarf but sometimes I still don't have an effective way of dealing with it if its already calm minded a few times.

Swampert - Lead Swampert is easily taken care of by Skarmory, who can Taunt it and set up entry hazards. Ones without roar are setup bait for my own Swampert

Tentacruel - Rotom-H can block the rapid spin and either trick it or blast it with thunderbolt.

Tyranitar - Setup bait for Swampert. My own Tyranitar can also low kick it.

Vaporeon - Tentacruel can come in and set up toxic spikes on it.

Zapdos - Ones without roar are setup fodder for Swampert.

Offensive Threats:

Azelf - Tyranitar can take care of Azelf all day. Rotom-H also outspeeds and can revenge it

Breloom - Very annoying. Ones without Seed Bomb can be handled by Rotom-H since its immune to focus punch. I generally let Swampert take the sleep and then switch to Rotom. If it comes in on Tyranitar and my chesto berry is still intact, I just ice beam it.

Dragonite - With sandstorm and stealth rock, it's going to be losing 31% of its health everytime it switches in. Add in life orb damage and its losing 16% so after two turns it could potentially be half dead. While it may be a threat, it generally doesnt last long. If it has roost thats another problem and i can just trick a scarf onto it, rendering it useless. Lead variants are handled by Tyranitar's ice beam.

Dugtrio - The only members it can trap and kill are Heatran and Tyranitar. While these are major parts of my team, I generally don't worry about Dugtrio as I hardly ever see it.

Electivire - Rotom-H and Swampert can wall its attacks

Gallade - Could be a threat. Rotom-H can shadow ball it but it probably wont KO and it will get KOed itself. Tentacruel could stop variants that don't have Psycho Cut

Gengar - Gengar can be a troublesome threat. Tyranitar has to fear Focus Blast so it isnt a very could counter. Rotom-H can revenge it and Swampert can attmept to set up on it if need be

Gyarados - Ones without taunt are whirlwinded away by Skarmory. Rotom-H can handle it too

Heatran - Swampert can handle it with ease if it doesnt have hidden power grass. If it does, I can fall back on Tentacruel and Tyranitar

Heracross - Rotom-H can outspeed it and kill it with Overheat. Other than that, it can't really do anything to Tentacruel

Infernape - Tentacruel can wall it all day. Rotom-H can also revenge it if its low on HP (which it hopefully will be as spikes and stealth rock will be taking its tole on it)

Jolteon - Tyranitar can wall it with its huge Special Defense stat. If Tyranitar is down, Heatran can take hits well

Latias - Tyranitar and if its down, Heatran from behind a sub and Rotom

Kingdra - I have Tyranitar on my team to change the weather if it gets set up. Tentacruel also blocks most of its attacks and can hit it with Sludge Bomb

Lucario - Rotom-H is a great check since it can take a hit from Crunch, which is unlikely that it would be used on a switch unless they are trying to KO Rotom-H. Swampert can take a hit from it if need be and if it hasnt swords danced yet. If Rotom-H goes down, I could be in trouble. I'd have to rely on Tentacruel to slow it down

Machamp - I hate Machamp. I generally lose Rotom-H to it as I trick it a scarf. Then I can play around with it later on in the game.

Magnezone - Ones without Hidden Power Grass or Explosion are setup fodder for Swampert.

Mamoswine - Skarmory and Rotom-H are pretty good checks for it.

Metagross - Skarmory walls it all day long. Rotom-H can help out oo.

Porygon-Z - This thing hits like a nuke, but that's to be expected expected from 135 Base SAtk and an essential 120 base power STAB attack. Rotom-H can revenge kill it or trick it a scarf, Tyranitar can hit it with low kick (although hidden power fighting is annoying) and Jirachi can calm mind on it.

Salamence - I basically deal with it the way I deal with Dragonite. Wear it down through Sandstorm and Life Orb and try and draw an outrage somewhere so Heatran or Skarmory can come in. Rotom-H can also revenge kill it if its on low enough health.

Scizor - Skarmory, Heatran and Rotom-H make sure he isnt a big problem. Tentacruel also resists every single attack it has as well.

Starmie - Rotom-H is always my first switch in to Starmie. Thanks to the bulkier spread, Starmie is much easier to switch in to. If Rotom-H is down, then I have to switch to Tyranitar and deal with it from there

Togekiss - Rotom-H is the penultimate counter to Togekiss. Thunder Wave spamming Togekiss get very annoying, though. I generally Trick my Scarf on Thunder Wave spammers. Heatran isnt too bothered by it either

Tyranitar - Skarmory and Swampert don't fear it that much.

Weavile - Setup fodder for Swampert.

Yanmega - Rotom-H is an excellent counter. It resists all common attacks seen on Yanmega and threatens with Thunderbolt. If all else fails, Heatran and Tentacruel can take hits from it and kill it. Rotom-H generally wins easily, though.

Zapdos - Heatran can take a hit and poison it. Otherwise, Swampert can set up on it.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

Hey. Cool team but I have some suggestions. First off I notice it's pretty hard for you to deal with grass types if toxic spikes aren't up, and roserade can even absorb them. It seems as though a celebi with grass knot and hp fire can really fuck you up, even though celebi is seen less and less from experience nowadays. I think a substitute heatran would support your team better than jirachi would, because it abuses toxic spikes a hell of a lot better, while handling opposing cm jirachis, and can hit latias for reasonable damage if you opt to run dragon pulse. It also makes a better switchin to celebi IMO. I was thinking of replacing rotom but then you'd lose a spin blocker and gyarados answer. Also pump more speed onto taunt skarmory or else it's just worthless to run taunt. Run like 132 for other taunt skarms. Hope i helped gl.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Hey Sprinkles, thanks for the rate.

On Skarmory, I've taken your advice and given it 132 speed evs.

I have a question with the Heatran for Jirachi thing. Subbing in a Heatran for Jirachi has been one of the things I've been considering but the one thing that keeps me from doing it is losing the Wish support that Jirachi gives me.

I guess what I'm asking is do I absolutely need wish support on this team? I would say that I do because I have two important members in Tentacruel and Rotom-H who don't have any way of healing themselves. The thing is, if I lose Jirachi, I lose wish and I can't really see a way of working it back in there unless I replace Tentacruel with Vaporeon and then replace Skarmory for Forretress so I can have both spikes and toxic spikes. I can't see the team being as efficient that way though.

Some more thought on it would be appreciated.

Zach: That actually makes sense. I'll change that to Lum Berry.

 

[Zach]

Wish Support doesn't seem to me *absolutely* needed for this team, but it is obviously helpful. I also have one quick nitpick: why are you using Chesto Tyranitar without Rest? If you are not using Rest, I recommend a Lum Berry.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

when i play, i rarely find time to wish. i just play conservatively with my members (sometimes) and just utilize resistances more than anything. i guess you could try that, but then you lose skarmory's stall breaking potency as well as reliable healing if you use forry> skarm

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Yeah, now that I think about it, I can't really think of too many times where I actually pulled off giving Rotom-H or Tentacruel a wish. I'll go ahead and try out that Heatran instead of Jirachi.

Edit: Heatran is working out great so far. I've found that not only is it a great lure for the dragons, but it is a great trick scarf absorber as well because I gain another check to Lucario and MixMence. I'll definitely be keeping Heatran.

 

[iKitsune]

This team desperately needs a solid counter to CM Suicune it will walk all over this team without a moments hesitation particualrly as it sets up with such ease against Tentacruel. Tentacruel is just horrible, any team that has to resort to using it imo is doing something very wrong it will never spin against stall and will be complete deadweight in the match up other than its ability to set up toxic spikes. Which plenty of other pokemon can do. Instead of it I'd like you to consider a Roserade it can still set up Toxic spikes but it also helps you a lot against bulky waters which you seriously need to stop as Swampy will never sweep against them.

I realise this leaves you weak to Ape but with prediction it can be beaten and for this team it is definitely the lesser of two evils, especially as Rotom can always revenge it and you will have SS going.

This is the set for Roserade I suggest:

Roserade @Leftovers
252hp/252spe/ 4spa (im sure there is something less crude than this - help me out?)
Timid

Grass Knot/Energy Ball
Leech Seed
HP ICE/Fire
Rest

Hopefully that should work really well. Ive seen it used before and ive always been impressed, this may just be the team to take perfect advantage of it.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

You bring up some good points ikitsune. I'll definitely try out that Roserade.

As for the evs, I was looking at the Roserade analysis and there are two alternate ev spreads they give to yours under the "spikes" moveset.

They are 252 HP/136 Special Defense/120 Speed

and 252 HP/56 Defense/120 Speed/80 Special Defense

would either of these spreads work? or do I need the full 252 speed even though it's not a lead?

 

[Excellence]

Looking at this team, Specs or Scarf Gengar seems like the perfect counter to it. Focus Blast beats Tyrannitar, Focus Blast beats Heatran, Energy Ball beats Swampert, Shadow Ball beats Rotom, Thunder Bolt beats Skarmory, and Thunder Bolt beats Tentacruel. If Rotom is down or locked into something that cannot kill it you are going to have a lot of trouble.

The threat of Ground-type attacks to this team is also really high. I would suggest adding in a Pokemon with Levitate or even Shuca Berry somewhere to help you survive and revenge kill. Rotom won't last forever a lot of opponents run their own Scarfed Pokemon, usually faster than Rotom.

I would consider Dragonite over Heatran because it can pretty much do the same thing while also making use of all the entry hazards you have on your team.

Dragonite @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Moveset:
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
ExtremeSpeed
Fire Punch

That Dragonite can switch into things that want to hurt Skarmory, Dragon Dance once perhaps twice then proceed to hurt things. All the entry hazards you have in place would also enable it to pick off weaker pokemon using ExtremeSpeed. It also has a great deal of Bulk to it making it even better suited to throw an opponent off who tries to counter it without using an ice attack.

Nice team.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

24 hour bump (actually more like 48 hour bump lol). Anybody else have any suggestoins?

From what I've found, Roserade has been good but not great. While it does slow Suicune down, it generally dies pretty fast and doesn't get to do all that it wants to do. I'm going to test it some more though as it has been useful in some battles.

Additionally, Machamp and Breloom have been very annoying pokemon for me and I really have no way to deal with them. Any advice on dealing with them would be appreciated.

 

[iKitsune]

Glad to hear Roserade works OK, Im sure both spreads are fine just pick the one you feel suits best. Most teams as im sure you realise struggle a lot with Breloom and Machamp, they are complete monsters.

Instead of focussing on how you handle these threats directly i think its more important you work on trying to revenge kill them and shut them down before they make their appearance. First of all Tyranitar as a lead for this team does very little, in fact it just aggravates your weakness to machamp who is often a lead. It doesnt really serve to shut down any problem pokemon as you dont need to beat sleep leads or Azelf leads, OK it lures the odd gliscor but its role is not a necessity. Instead i would prefer to see it used as a Scarfer in your team. This way it gives you foolproof measures against LO Starmie, LO/Specs/Expert Belt Latias, currently very threatening against your team but also capable of stopping your sweep with swampert.

On it I would suggest Superpower over EQ this way it can damage Breloom with its sub down, Breloom is still going to be a problem but Heatran can revenge as can Rotom. The lead spot is now free so Skarmory can, somewhat unorthodoxly fill the spot, run the exact same set but use SR over taunt of course change the speed ev if you do this as taunt wars no longer matter. For this team if the opponent gets sr up its not important but if you manage to get both SR and Spikes up in the first 2 turns the opponent will be easy to sweep with swampert. If you face machamp whirlwind it and deal with it when it comes back in, at least this way you wont be on the back foot so much against it. I see Infernape being somewhat of a nuisance but you now have two revenge killers and leads can be handled by Swampy.

I honestly think thiese change will greatly help this team and i really hope you succeed.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Thanks Ikitsune, I'll definitely try out those changes. I can already see them paying off.