Mechanics Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

EDIT: Seems it's just a visual bug. I just tested it and it did no change. Caught an Applin to test with 41HP. It healed 2 HP which is the normal amount.

The message triggers, but the ability doesn't.

That being said, I'm interested on this visual bug. Does the Ripen message pop up with all items that can be "used" (triggering the use animation) by a Pokémon (e.g. Focus Sash, Normal Gem)? Or is it just the berries and "usable" recovery items (Leftovers)?

If it's the latter, then Ripen should have an effect on Leftovers, but for some reason it doesn't.
Yeah the Ability pops up. I can't really tell how much it heals since I wasn't the user of it.
 
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The message triggers, but the ability doesn't.

That being said, I'm interested on this visual bug. Does the Ripen message pop up with all items that can be "used" (triggering the use animation) by a Pokémon (e.g. Focus Sash, Normal Gem)? Or is it just the berries and "usable" recovery items (Leftovers)?

If it's the latter, then Ripen should have an effect on Leftovers, but for some reason it doesn't.
I tested, Ripen does not pop up for items like the Focus Sash or Normal Gem, but it does pop up for the Berry Juice (which is not considered a Berry). I believe this whole situation is because the game has one "script" for what happens when an item that restore's the holder's HP is consumed. The Berry eating animation is likely determined by what the holder's item is, but the check for Ripen was likely just shoved in there without actually checking if the held item was a Berry (this is consistent with other rushed features of this game).
 
I tested, Ripen does not pop up for items like the Focus Sash or Normal Gem, but it does pop up for the Berry Juice (which is not considered a Berry). I believe this whole situation is because the game has one "script" for what happens when an item that restore's the holder's HP is consumed. The Berry eating animation is likely determined by what the holder's item is, but the check for Ripen was likely just shoved in there without actually checking if the held item was a Berry (this is consistent with other rushed features of this game).
Well both Leftovers and Berry Juice are uh, food items, in a since. But if your theory is correct, would Ripen also pop up on items like Shell Bell?
 
Well both Leftovers and Berry Juice are uh, food items, in a since. But if your theory is correct, would Ripen also pop up on items like Shell Bell?
Tested. It doesn't activate for Shell Bell, as it seems Shell Bell uses a different "script" entirely. Unlike Berry Juice, no animation is played to show that an item is used. The only animation played is for the HP recovery. Shell Bell is also not consumed after use like the other items.
 
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Mario With Lasers

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I tested, Ripen does not pop up for items like the Focus Sash or Normal Gem, but it does pop up for the Berry Juice (which is not considered a Berry). I believe this whole situation is because the game has one "script" for what happens when an item that restore's the holder's HP is consumed. The Berry eating animation is likely determined by what the holder's item is, but the check for Ripen was likely just shoved in there without actually checking if the held item was a Berry (this is consistent with other rushed features of this game).
While I'm just extrapolating here, this "rush" may be also the reason why we lost Hidden Power. It's likely all Normal-type moves that change type under certain conditions (Hidden Power, Judgment, Weather Ball, Multi-Attack and I'm forgetting something) use the same internal mechanic in the coding, so during Dynamax they all change to Max [Type]. This would make Hidden Power completely borked with Dynamax so it got cut.
 
While I'm just extrapolating here, this "rush" may be also the reason why we lost Hidden Power. It's likely all Normal-type moves that change type under certain conditions (Hidden Power, Judgment, Weather Ball, Multi-Attack and I'm forgetting something) use the same internal mechanic in the coding, so during Dynamax they all change to Max [Type]. This would make Hidden Power completely borked with Dynamax so it got cut.
I'm not sure about it. Weather Ball, Metronome and Nature Power already behaved like this with their Z-crystals (They'd all require Normalium-Z, then turn into whatever Z-move was appropriate).
 
I'm not sure about it. Weather Ball, Metronome and Nature Power already behaved like this with their Z-crystals (They'd all require Normalium-Z, then turn into whatever Z-move was appropriate).
Also didnt someone earlier ask how it was handled if hacked in? And ir displays as the proper typing, just graues out to show its inaccessible
 
Clangorous Soul is implemented by using the Heal% field. This field reads "50" for moves like Recover, "25" for Life Dew, and "-33" for Clangorous Soul. The only other move with a negative value in this field is Struggle (-25), and Magic Guard doesn't block that--I don't think it'll block this either, same as it doesn't stop you from losing HP to use Substitute or Belly Drum.
 
Endeavor with Dyna/Gigantamax Pokemon:

So the endeavor mechanics for Dynamax pokemon this generation are pretty interesting. Based on my algorithm, the way the game determines final state HP of a pkm is as follows:

Step1: convert current HP to undynamaxed HP. This value should be ceiled and not floored. (referred as base_hp from now on)
Forumla: base_hp = ceil(curr_dynamax_hp/dynamax_multiplier)

Step2: subtract the HP of the pokemon that is using endeavor from the base_hp calculated in step 1. If the HP of the pokemon using endeavor is more than base_hp, the move will have no effect.
Forumla: damage = base_hp - endeavor_hp

Step3: subtract this calculated damage (from Step 2) from curr_dynamax_hp to get the final state HP of the pkm
Formula: final_hp = curr_dynamax_hp - damage

Examples:
1/135 HP pokemon with endeavor vs 238/300 HP Dynamax Level 10 opponent
238 undynamaxed = 119
119 - 1 = 118 damage
238 - 118 damage = 120 Final HP

12/135 HP pokemon with endeavor vs 47/186 HP Dynamax Level 0 opponent
47 undynamaxed = ceil(47/1.5) = 32
32-12 = 20 damage
47-20 = 27 Final HP

Thanks to Anubis for helping me test this algorithm. Proof of interaction attached (My Discord name is thecommondude)

View attachment 209443View attachment 209444
In addendum to this post, I have generalized HP based damages of moves on dynamaxed pokemon.
All the moves below use the converted base HP value of dynamaxed current HP. This value is calculated always by ceiling dynamax HP divided by dynamax boost:

base_hp = ceil(dynamaxed_hp/dynamax_boost)

This being established, the working of the moves is quite simple.

Pain Split :
First convert the dynamaxed HP to base_hp. Add this to the HP of the undynamaxed pokemon. Divide this value by 2 and floor the value. Then subtract this value from the base_hp to derive the HP gain/loss on the dynamaxed mon. Then add/subtract the gained/lost HP to the dynamaxed HP of the pokemon to get the final HP.

Example from Anubis (Post: here)
174/346 HP at dynamax level 10 (2x boost in HP) equates to ceil(174/2) = 87 base_hp
When pain splitting with a 160 HP pokemon: average HP = floor((87+160)/2) = 123
HP gain on dynamax pokemon = 123-87 = 36
Final HP on dynamax pokemon = 174+36 = 210
HP loss on undynamaxed pokemon = 160-123 = 37
Final HP on undynamaxed pokemon = 160-37 = 123

The same logic applies and works on the second example in that post

Super Fang:
First convert dynamaxed HP to base_hp. Divide this value by 2 and floor it. Subtract this floored value from the original dynamaxed HP value to get the final HP.

Example from Anubis (Post: here)
> 0 Dynamax level Chewtle ended up with 112/168 HP (base 112 HP) after Super Fang
0 dynamax = 1.5x boost
ceil(168/1.5) = 112 base_hp
floor(112/2) = 56 damage
168-56 = 112 final HP
A similar logic can be applied for the second example he gave. But this is hardly an interesting example to look at. Max HP stuff is always boring to me, so lets look at an example where the opponent is NOT at max HP. Some cool calcs in the screenshots below :]

1575337794912.png


1575337872702.png


Hopefully this is enough proof of my logic working. This obviously also works for endeavor (check the quoted post for the workings on that). I have also written some python code to compute final HPs in case of all 3 of these move scenarios. Happy to share that with anyone here who may be interested
 

DaWoblefet

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While I'm just extrapolating here, this "rush" may be also the reason why we lost Hidden Power. It's likely all Normal-type moves that change type under certain conditions (Hidden Power, Judgment, Weather Ball, Multi-Attack and I'm forgetting something) use the same internal mechanic in the coding, so during Dynamax they all change to Max [Type]. This would make Hidden Power completely borked with Dynamax so it got cut.
the same rush I felt when seeing how many moves should be blocked by soundproof or bulletproof but aren't...
Dragon Darts, Snipe shot, mud shot, shard, shot and shoot moves... Bulletproof begs for this kind of coverage taking octazoka and rock blast...

Can someone test Dynamax Cannon on Komo with Bulletproof? if that too isn't block I will start to cry. Hope they fix it next games realy.

Also did someone test if Max Guards protect againtst sound moves and how they react to G-moves?
Do Max Guard block G and Max moves the same way?

How does Copperjahs G-max move react with terrains? when they are on field or if they want to activate after it?

Hmmm we know weight moves and Sky Drop don't work on Dynamax/Gmax mon but what about Seismic Toss?

Someone checks the cut off moves to see what would happen if they come back when it comes to Dynamax
(ps. hope they add effects especially that Twister and Dragon Rage, where both special moves...
especialy taking Rage and other moves that next time could get power and effect buffs)

How would Sonic Boom, Wring out work on Dynamax? would they even work taking the size?
Would Embargo work on a Dynamax pokemon?

Should Odeur Sleuth or Foresight work on a Dynamax ghost type?
I think Dynamax should protect from that.

Will Smack Down work on a Dynamax pokemon with Levitate? Gravitate should but Smack Down?

Do other moves hit seminvulnerable turn protected users? anchor shot and dive? drum beating and dig?
 
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It's known that Feint will bypass Max Guard but not lift the protection effect from it; Phantom Force, however, gets blocked by Max Guard entirely.
Feint doesn't lift the effect of Max Guard, but if the Pokemon is simultaneously protected by Wide Guard or Quick Guard, are the effects of those moves removed? Or does Max Guard prevent any and all protection effects from being lifted?

Additionally, I don't believe this has been answered yet, but what happens when Aegislash-Blade uses Max Guard (or the Max Guard variant of King's Shield)?

the same rush I felt when seeing how many moves should be blocked by soundproof or bulletproof but aren't...
Dragon Darts, Snipe shot, mud shot, shard, shot and shoot moves... Bulletproof begs for this kind of coverage taking octazoka and rock blast...
That's different entirely. Those abilities not doing what you wish they did is different than a new ability "activating" when it's not supposed to, and still not doing anything.

Also did someone test if Max Guards protect againtst sound moves and how they react to G-moves?
Do Max Guard block G and Max moves the same way?
Max Guard does not discriminate between Max Moves of G-Max Moves. Sound moves have no relation to Max Guard and are always blocked.

Hmmm we know weight moves and Sky Drop don't work on Dynamax/Gmax mon
Sky Drop is not in the game. It likely wouldn't work if it was, but we have no proof of this.

How would Sonic Boom, Wring out work on Dynamax? would they even work taking the size?
Would Embargo work on a Dynamax pokemon?

Should Odeur Sleuth or Foresight work on a Dynamax ghost type?
I think Dynamax should protect from that.
You can speculate what you want, but that won't change the fact that those moves are not in the game. You should look here before asking questions about a particular move.
 
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but High Jump Kick (and possibly also Jump Kick by extension) now FAIL if there is no target to hit and the user does NOT take crash damage.

it not failed , it could not hit nothing because there was nothing to hit after Rotom fainted before move was even used.
it didnt missed because of accuracy? try a semi invulnerable move to check it better.
____________________________________________________

By the way does Magic Armor reflect Pressure, Spite? pp reducing moves and abilities too???
 
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Someone mentioned this earlier, but I just wanted to confirm what I read. In Max Raid Battles, is it possible to lower the raid boss' HP past the point where a shield would come up? Or would a move that would normally KO only do as much damage up to when the shield would activate? On the same note, can a raid boss take burn, toxic, weather, trap, etc. damage while it has its shields up?
 
In Max Raid Battles, is it possible to lower the raid boss' HP past the point where a shield would come up?
No, not until the next mon attacks it.
Or would a move that would normally KO only do as much damage up to when the shield would activate?
Bingo
On the same note, can a raid boss take burn, toxic, weather, trap, etc. damage while it has its shields up?
Yes on burn, toxic, and weather, likely yes for trap but haven't seen that yet.
 

Anubis

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A lot of assorted answers to dev questions:

Urkerab's questions for doubles:
Do G-Max Befuddle, G-Max Malodor, G-Max Stun Shock or G-Max Volt Crash set status on the other foe, even if it has a Substitute? What if it is already statused?
All of these set status on both opponents, even if they have Substitutes up. If the other foe already has a status, it does not get a new status.
Does G-Max Centiskorch set Fire Spin? What if the other foe has a Substitute? What if it has Flash Fire?
Yes, it does seem to set Fire Spin, or at least it does damage at the end of every turn and calls it Fire Spin.
If G-Max Centiferno attacks one opponent in doubles, an ally with Flash Fire is still afflicted by Fire Spin.
G-Max Centiferno can trap the target and the ally through Substitute, but if either foe uses Substitute successfully after being hit, it removes the Fire Spin effect (as Substitute removes volatile trapping effects).
If that's unclear, here are the videos demonstrating what happens.
Does G-Max Sandblast set Sand Tomb? What if the other foe has a Substitute? What if it's not grounded?
Yes, it seems to set Sand Tomb (same sort of thing as Centiferno above).
The logic is very similar to G-Max Centiferno -- a Flying-type ally is still afflicted by Sand Tomb even with Substitute up.
Using Substitute successfully after getting hit by G-Max Sandblast removes the trapping effect.
Does G-Max Snooze affect the other foe if it has a Substitute?
In 8 uses, I only got the Yawn effect to go off twice. Both times, it only affected the target. It didn't get the other foe whether Substitute was up or not. I don't know what the actual chance of Yawn going off is and need to test this further. I also don't know if there's a chance the ally gets afflicted.
Does G-Max Sweetness cure your ally, even if it has a Substitute? What if it has Sap Sipper? What if the user has Sap Sipper?
In my test, both the user and ally had Sap Sipper. G-Max Sweetness still cured both user and ally of status, even while the ally had a substitute up.
Do G-Max Volcalith or G-Max Wildfire continue to do damage even if the foes switch?
Both continue to do damage even when the foes switch out.
urkerab on Discord said:
Does G-Max Depletion's Spite-like effect affect both foes?
Yes, it affects both foes, even behind Substitute.

Kris
Kris on Discord said:
Would u be willing to try testing Instruct on a Pokemon using a Dynamax move (but the pokemon itself is not dynamaxed)
so like a regular bulbasaur using Max Overgrowth
Instruct, Disable, and Encore all fail for a hacked-on Max Move.
Kris on Discord said:
i saw something about g-max chi strike becoming up to 150 base power [and something similar about G-Max Malodor].
G-Max Chi Strike with Focus Punch was 100 BP.
G-Max Malodor with Gunk Shot or Belch were both 95 BP.

The Immortal asked me to confirm that hacking in a Ghost Type Silvally without RKS or a memory made it behave as a ghost-type, and it does -- which is apparently different from Gen 7. I also was asked if it's possible to start games with hacked forms like Darmanitan-Galar-Zen or Zacian-Crowned without the item. All of these appeared to revert to the original form in-game.

Q: How much does Gorilla Tactics boost by?

In-battle: Gorilla Tactics Galarian Darmanitan (Lv. 50, 178 Attack) versus Coalossal (Lv. 50, 123 Def) using Brick Break.
Expected damage rolls with no ability and damage rolls are consistent with SM: (82, 84, 84, 86, 86, 88, 88, 90, 90, 92, 92, 94, 94, 96, 96, 98)
Damage rolls 1.3x boost (Life Orb): (107, 109, 109, 112, 112, 114, 114, 117, 117, 120, 120, 122, 122, 125, 125, 127)
Damage rolls 1.5x boost (Choice Band): (124, 124, 126, 128, 128, 130, 132, 134, 134, 136, 138, 140, 140, 142, 144, 146)
Recorded hits in-battle: 130, 128, 138 - consistent with 50% boost, above the range for a 30 or 33% boost

Gorilla Tactics likely boosts by 50%, and for sure boosts significantly more than 30%.
I talked to GMars briefly since this was assumed to be a 1.5x Attack boost but not confirmed. I ran some testing using level 50 Darmanitan-Galar with 157 attack, Ice Punch (75 BP) vs level 50 Wobbuffet with 71 Defense.
As a 1.5x attack modifier: 166, 163, 162, 160, 159, 157, 156, 154, 153, 151, 148, 147, 145, 144, 142, 141
As a 1.5x BP modifier: 165, 162, 160, 159, 157, 156, 154, 153, 151, 150, 148, 145, 144, 142, 141, 139
As a 1.5x damage modifier: 166, 163, 162, 159, 159, 157, 154, 153, 153, 150, 148, 145, 145, 144, 141, 139
142
142
144
144
145
145
145
145
147
148
151
151
151
153
153
154
157
159
159
160
162
162
162
162
166
All the numbers were consistent with the attack modifier, and the 147 damage was not possible as BP or damage modifiers, so I believe it's currently implemented correctly as a 1.5x attack modifier.

And lastly I have some more numbers showing that Dry Skin and G-Max Wildfire affect Dynamaxed Pokemon based on the base HP before Dynamax.
After G-Max Wildfire damage:
Dynamaxed Arctovish with base HP 197 dropped from 196/295 HP -> 164/295 HP (32 HP lost which is 197/6)
Wobbuffet dropped from 279/297 HP to 230/297 HP (49 HP lost which is 297/6)
Dry Skin Croagunk with base HP 15/118, Dynamaxes to 23/177 HP
When hit by Max Geyser, heals to 52/177 HP (29 HP healed which is 118/4)
Then healed by Rain, recovers to 66/177 HP (14 HP healed which is 118/8)

Dry Skin Croagunk with base HP 19/118, Dynamaxes to 29/177 HP
When damaged by Sun, HP drops to 15/177 (14 HP damage which is 118/8)
 
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Regarding Centiferno, I don't know if this has already been documented, but there is a quirk where the Fire Spin effect lasts for 4-5 turns even AFTER Centiskorch has fainted or is off the field, which is unlike actual Fire Spin or other partially trapping moves, unless they have been changed. I assume it's the same with Sandblast, but it needs to be tested.
 
Regarding Centiferno, I don't know if this has already been documented, but there is a quirk where the Fire Spin effect lasts for 4-5 turns even AFTER Centiskorch has fainted or is off the field, which is unlike actual Fire Spin or other partially trapping moves, unless they have been changed. I assume it's the same with Sandblast, but it needs to be tested.
Does this mean Centiferno can stack on top of regular trapping moves? As in, can a Pokemon be trapped in a Sand Tomb/Whirpool/Infestation etc. and Centiferno at the same time?

Based on what we know about about Dynamax, the following list things most likely use the base HP as well, but I don't believe they've been tested:
  • Aftermath
  • Rough Skin/Iron Barbs
  • Leftovers
  • Sitrus/Figy Berry
  • Poison Heal
 

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