Mechanics Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

Fairly dumb question inbound:
If a mon gains a fire weakness via Tar Shot, does Wonder Guard still block damage from fire moves? (assuming the mon wasn't initially weak to fire)
No, Tar Shot changes it into a weakness and it counts for Wonder Guard. This can also be seen in the move selection screen where effective becomes super effective.

EDIT video: https://streamable.com/vowgr - Coalossal vs magic powder Ditto-Shedinja
 
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DaWoblefet

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I think this has been confirmed outside of the thread, but here are the base powers for using Fling with TRs:
  • Status moves, Low Kick, Grass Knot, Metronome, Reversal, Gyro Ball, Heavy Slam, and Electro Ball: 10 BP
  • Stored Power: 20 BP
  • All other TRs: the base power of the attack it is trying to teach
Even more simply: if the move's base power is -- in-game, it's 10 BP; otherwise, it's the BP listed for that particular TR.
 
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Even more simply: if the move's base power is -- in-game, it's 10 BP; otherwise, it's the BP listed for that particular TR.
Reading around suggests that Fling still has a maximum base power of 130 (same as Iron Ball), even if the TR's base power is higher than 130. Can you confirm?
 
I tested a couple things with Perish Body:
  • Perish Body is indeed not affected by Soundproof.
  • Perish Body does not activate if the attacker already has a Perish Count. Even if the ability holder of Perish Body does not have a Perish Count (say after switching out and switching back in), a new Perish Count will still not be set for anyone.
 

DaWoblefet

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More testing notes from a wide variety of topics (some may be known from other places in the thread or are identical to past generation behavior):
  • Clangorous Soul will only fail to undergo its effect if all of its stats are at +6.
    • If all of the user's stats are +6, then it will consume PP, attempt to say "<Pokemon>'s <stat> won't go any higher!" for each stat, and not reduce the user's HP.
    • If all of the user's stats are +6 and the user has Contrary, Clangorous Soul will lower all stats like normal and apply the HP reduction.
    • If all of the user's stats are -6 and the user has Contrary, Clangorous Soul will consume PP, attempt to say "<Pokemon>'s <stat> won't go any lower!" for each stat, and not reduce the user's HP.
  • Court Change will swap the effects of Mist, Tailwind, G-Max Wildfire, and all three Pledge combo field effects.
  • G-Max Terror afflicts the "Can't Escape" Mean Look-esque flag to both targets in doubles. If Gengar switches, the "can't escape" flag disappears, unlike how G-Max Sandblast or G-Max Wildfire behave.
  • If a Contrary Eject Pack Pokemon sees its stats lowered with an effect like Liechi Berry, Swagger, Iron Defense, etc. it will switch out.
  • Yawn is not passed via Baton Pass.
  • Wandering Spirit works on allies. I remember reading somewhere that it wouldn't work, but it does.
  • If Wandering Spirit swaps Emergency Exit onto the user on a hit that brought it below 50% HP, Emergency Exit will NOT activate, and it will not activate again from another damaging hit, unless it is brought above 50% again with something like Heal Pulse.
    • Similar behavior exists with Skill Swap; Skill Swapping Emergency Exit when the Skill Swap user is under half HP doesn't make you immediately switch out.
  • Emergency Exit cannot happen during the middle of a multi-hit attack, like Rock Blast. The Rock Blast must finish its number of hits first.
  • Red Card cannot trigger if the holder was KOed.
  • If a Clear Body Pokemon is behind a Substitute, the Substitute is the effect that blocks stat drops, not Clear Body.
  • If an Innards Out Pokemon is Dynamaxed, it will deal damage to the target equal to its base HP on being KOed, not its Dynamaxed HP. (e.g. KOing a Pyukumuku with 200 Dynamaxed HP would cause Innards Out to deal 100 damage back).
  • Forced slot switching still exists. In doubles, if two Pokemon on the side same are KOed on the same turn and there is only one remaining Pokemon left, you must send it out into the left slot.
  • Standalone Water Pledge still ignores Storm Drain.
  • If a Pokemon is Choice locked into Trick, then Tricks an opponent and receives another Choice item, it can freely choose another move to lock into.
    • Similarly, if a Pokemon is Choice locked and is then Tricked a different Choice item after it has moved for the turn, it is free to select another move to relock into.
  • Grip Claw extends G-Max Sandblast to 7 turns. Binding Band increases G-Max Sandblast's damage, but does not increase its duration. G-Max Wildfire is unaffected by either item.
 
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Givrix

The Golden Boy
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[...]
  • Grip Claw extends G-Max Sandblast to 7 turns. Binding Band increases G-Max Sandblast's damage, but does not increase its duration. G-Max Wildfire is unaffected by either item.
G-Max Wildfire doesn't have any trap effect (it's the same effect as sea of fire - Fire pledge + Grass pledge), but what about G-Max Centiferno ? Do these items affect it ? Since it mimics the effect of Fire Spin, and G-Max Sandblast is the counterpart of Sand Tomb, I believe it works but I can't test it for now.
 

DaWoblefet

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G-Max Wildfire doesn't have any trap effect (it's the same effect as sea of fire - Fire pledge + Grass pledge), but what about G-Max Centiferno ? Do these items affect it ? Since it mimics the effect of Fire Spin, and G-Max Sandblast is the counterpart of Sand Tomb, I believe it works but I can't test it for now.
Yes, G-Max Centiferno is also affected by both items. I was similarly pretty confident it would not work with G-Max Wildfire, but I had seen the claim made on other sites and wanted to make a mention of it.
 

Anubis

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Small dump; I've been busy testing Dragon Darts and hope to put out some information about this move in the next week.

[8:56 AM] Jibaku: What happens if you
[8:56 AM] Jibaku: 1) Do the Dragon Darts glitch and then
[8:56 AM] Jibaku: 2) On the next turn, have Oranguru Instruct the Dragapult and the Dragapult uses Counter
[9:01 AM] SadisticMystic: Dragapult doesn't get Counter, but Sudowoodo does get Counter + Mimic, and can acquire Dragon Darts that way
[9:02 AM] SadisticMystic: If you need to go through a legality check to set up the necessary 2-player battle, that's probably the way you'd do it
If Dragapult is Host's 1st mon, it can KO itself with Instruct + Counter. I think it's actually treated as using DD against itself since Counter hasn't done anything yet.
Turn 1 | Turn 2
I tested if this lack of immunity would work for self-directed Dragon Darts onto a Fairy-type but only expected things happened (Fairy is immune to self-targeted Dragon Darts and it reports the untargeted mon).

[5:42 PM] The Immortal: you know how taunt blocks max guard? what about disable? if you disable the status move, is the max guard for the slot disabled?
You can use Max Guard based on a disabled move.

[06:15:44] ~The Immortal: does plasma fists make the opponent's max strike turn into max lightning
Yep.

[18:46:33] +Kris: what happens if you transform into a hacked wishiwashi school without Schooling, then go below 25% HP
A mon that transforms into a Wishiwashi-School without the Schooling ability retains the schooling forme at low HP.

[18:43:48] +Kris: is aura wheel always electric or always dark on a hacked morpeko-hangry that doesnt have hunger switch
The hacked Morpeko-Hangry's Aura Wheel appears as Dark Type, does neutral damage vs. Wishiwashi and NVE vs Silvally-Dark.

TI also asked me some stuff about how hacked Zacian-C and Silvally (without RKS or Memory) appear in Team Preview.
Zacian-C shows up Crowned, and neither of us could see any difference in the Silvally sprites (Fairy in the previous image, Dark in this video).
 
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If Dragapult is Host's 1st mon, it can KO itself with Instruct + Counter. I think it's actually treated as using DD against itself since Counter hasn't done anything yet.
Not to mention that Counter, as a Fighting-type move, would have failed against Dragapult itself thanks to its Ghost-type.
 
if a pokemon with stalwart uses a move like thunderbolt against a pokemon that has lighting rod but is in a semi-protected state like fly, phantom force, dive or dig will the move hit it?
and what happpens if its behind a substitute?

taking that lighting rod always draws in electric type moves, will it draw them when the pokemon selfs try to go into semi protected state via using a move like dig or others?

-Magnet Pull and Stalwart? this kind of situations?
where Duradullon uses a steel move against a steel pokemon with magnet pull that uses dig?
__________________________________________________


also did something maybe changed in the steel electric and magnet pull deparpment when it comes to abilities and moves interactions? new power ups, resistance, immunities?

do electric type abilities activate when switching in Electric terrain?
 
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Currently Wandering Spirit on PS will swap abilities before a move lowers stats, allowing you to get hit by a move, swap into Defiant/Competitive, and get the boost to boot. (Turn 3: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1057023529)
This doesn't happen ingame.

Video: https://streamable.com/xqff1
Low Sweep lowers Speed before Wandering Spirit swaps abilities. You don't see it, but Pawniard had Defiant.
EDIT: Just remembered defiant doesn't activate on allies. The message order still stands
EDIT 2: Here is a clearer video showing Defiant and hitting the enemy: https://streamable.com/8vokn
 
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Rapid spin... Snap Trap works like Clamp and Rapid spin should get rid of it.
can Rapid Spin remove Octolock too?
or are there other moves that can free You from Snap Trap and Octolock without problem?
 
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Anubis

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I'd like to take a moment to discuss Dragon Darts. This is a move with some pretty complicated mechanics alone; combine it with host mechanics, Stalwart, Electrify, and Instruct and it gets wild!

  1. I did about a dozen tests and realized it was pointless to track left/right slots in terms of who was being attacked. Dragon Darts forces you to select one target from either opponent mon or your ally. From here on, I'll use Mon #1 to refer to the Pokemon you clicked on, and Mon #2 to refer to the ally of the Pokemon you clicked on.
  2. "Immunity" was the original term we used to include semi-invulnerability, Fairy-type immunity, and Telepathy since these were known to cause Dragon Darts to change its targeting. Then I found out that a lot of different conditions cause Dragon Darts to fail, so I'll now be using failure condition to refer to any reason a move may fail to connect to its target.
  3. I will be referring to SadisticMystic's list of steps that Gen 7 games use to check whether a move is successful. I believe that the relevant checks are in the correct order for Gen 8, but DaWoblefet has made it a priority to research this entirely in gen 8.
  4. Host Mechanics refers to the glitch where Instructing a Stalwart Pokemon makes it target the Host's first Pokemon sent out. I take advantage of this in several cases to flip the targeting mid-turn and demonstrate what would have happened if I had clicked on the other Pokemon instead.
  5. In my videos, most of the Dragapults are labeled "Clear Body" or "Stalwart" to designate what ability they have. Unless specified, the Pokemon remain in the positions they were in when first sent out. In general, the Host's first Pokemon will be on their left side.

It helps me to conceptualize the move as 3 separate parts. I don't know that the game actually does it in this exact way, but it does explain what we observe. Mechanics in spoiler tags are likely default mechanics for other moves or abilities.

Part 1: Targeting
The Pokemon that is clicked is unconditionally included in a list of targets as Mon #1. Its ally is Mon #2, provided it's not the same as the Pokemon using Dragon Darts.
  • Every attack will attempt to follow the order: Mon #1 -> Mon #2 [1].
  • Mon #1 is added as a target even if it's the Dragon Darts user. [1]
  • Mon #2 is not considered a target if it is the Dragon Darts user. [1]
  • Targeting your ally does not consider Dragapult as Mon #2; if the move fails, the darts don't hit Dragapult instead. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] An exception to this is if a non-Stalwart Dragapult gets Ally Swapped into its ally slot and becomes Mon #1 (since Mon #1 is added unconditionally). [1, 2]
  • Instruct + Stalwart Host mechanics behaves the same as if you had clicked on the Host's first Pokemon regardless of where it is on the field. [1]
    • If the Host's first Pokemon is not on the field, the glitch doesn't happen and the previous targeting is repeated. [1, 2]
  • If Stalwart is in play, the Pokemon you clicked on will be Mon #1 as long as it's on the field, even if it changes position via switching or Ally Switch. [1]
    • If the Host's first Pokemon leaves the field, Mon #1 is the Pokemon that is now in that slot. [1]
  • If Stalwart is not in play and the Pokemon you clicked on switches out or changes position, then it defaults to the Pokemon that switched into that slot. [1]

Part 2 is all about deciding who takes the damage.
21. check for move type changing due to Aerilate/Pixilate/Refrigerate/Normalize/Galvanize/Liquid Voice
23. check for move type changing due to Electrify/Ion Deluge/Plasma Fists
25. check for target redirection by Lightning Rod/Storm Drain
26. check for target redirection by Follow Me/Rage Powder
41. check for move failure due to target in Fly/Dig/Dive/Bounce/Sky Drop/Phantom Force/Shadow Force
46. check if move is blocked by Protect/Detect/King's Shield/Spiky Shield/Baneful Bunker
50. check if move is blocked by Mat Block
51. check for ability-based immunities, part 1 (Lightning Rod/Motor Drive/Volt Absorb/Telepathy/Wonder Guard)
52. if non-status move or Thunder Wave, and target does not hold Ring Target, check for type chart immunity (Fairy)
66. check for move accuracy
67. check if move is blocked by target's Substitute
73. perform move

Part 2a: Redirection
  • If redirection happens via Lightning Rod, Rage Powder, or Follow Me, Dragon Darts behaves the same way as a single-target attack. Other targets are dropped. Stalwart ignores anything here.
  • Lightning Rod draws attacks away and displays the activation message if the Pokemon was not the targeted Mon #1. [1, 2]
  • If there are multiple Lightning Rod or multiple Follow Me/Rage Powder, the fastest one draws in the attack. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
  • If Follow Me (presumably Rage Powder) and Lightning Rod compete for an attack, Follow Me wins out. [1, 2, 3]
  • Follow Me while the ally uses Mat Block sets off Mat Block. [1, 2]

Part 2b: Failure Conditions
This is the most complicated part of Dragon Darts, so let me explain with examples of observed behavior:
  • If only one of Mon #1 or Mon #2 have a failure condition and the other is valid as a target, the valid target gets hit twice. [1, 2, 3, 4] The same applies to when Mon #1 is Dragapult due to Host mechanics glitch or Ally Switch. [1, 2, 3]
    • Blunder Policy activates if at least one target is eliminated due to accuracy.
  • If Mon #1 and Mon #2 both have failure conditions, each step of SadisticMystic's list is checked laterally in the order Mon #1 -> Mon #2, and a Pokemon is eliminated when it meets criteria. The "last Pokemon eliminated" is reported as the reason that Dragon Darts failed.
    • If both Mon #1 and Mon #2 have the same failure condition, the game reports Mon #2 as the reason it failed since it's the "last Pokemon eliminated." For example, Dragon Darts into two Fairy Pokemon reports Fairy #2 as being unaffected. [1] Mat Block works differently; more on that later.
      • If multiple failure conditions are stacked and both Pokemon have the same failure conditions, the one earliest in SadisticMystic's list to eliminate both Pokemon is used. For example, if both Pokemon have Fly (41) + Wonder Guard (51) + high evasion (66), the game will only ever report Mon #2's Fly as the reason for failure since that is the first condition that eliminates both Pokemon from being attacked. [1]
    • If Mon #1 and Mon #2 have different failure conditions, we again see that the last Pokemon to be eliminated is reported. Dragon Darts vs a Flying opponent (41) and a Fairy opponent (51) always reports the Fairy type as the reason the move failed regardless of positioning or targeting since Fairy is checked later than semi-invulnerability. [1] Another example for Fairy (41) and evasion (66) shows that it's always evasion that is reported. [1]
    • Lateral checking doesn't seem to be new behavior; DaWoblefet reports that Storm Drain always activates before Water Absorb regardless of positioning on the field.
Part 3: Distributing Damage
If there is only one Pokemon left to take damage, it takes 2 hits. If there are two Pokemon left to take damage, each take 1 hit. If there are no Pokemon left to take hits, the failure messages were handled in Part 2.

=====

I'm not having enough fun with Dragon Darts and need more info!

Mat Block
This move announces its messages a little differently than other failure conditions. Dragon Darts into double Protect, double Wonder Guard, and double evasion all report Mon #2 as the mon that avoided the attack if the move fails to connect.
  • Mat Block reports Mat Block for both Mon #1, then Mon #2. [1]
  • If Mat Block is stacked with Protect, Mon #1 is only reported if it is the Mat Block setter, while Mon #2 is always reported. [1, 2]
  • Mat Block with a redirection move sets off Mat Block for the new target only. [1]
What if a target that would take 2 darts faints from the first targeted dart?
Attack ends; no second dart. Move doesn't recalculate and add back an opponent that was eliminated.

What happens if Dragon Darts user has Parental Bond?
You only get 2 hits. Shooting your kids out of your head is not good parental bonding.

What happens if Dragon Darts attacks Substitute?
Nothing special.

What happens if Dragon Darts doubles into a Soaked Mimikyu?
Soaked Mimikyu takes both hits. Electrify Dragon Darts shows that it keeps Water typing until the end of the attack. (This is actually a different sim bug I found because we currently change the typing right after the Disguise breaks [another video of Fury Attack]).

What happens if Dragon Darts attacks Wide Guard?
It's been previously shown by idk who that Wide Guard doesn't affect DD.

What about Eject Button?
The faster Eject Button activates. [1, 2] This isn't new behavior compared to Surf either. [1]

Why does ally Telepathy announce when Dragapult hits its own side, but ally Wonder Guard or Fly don't?
You tell me. Telepathy, Wonder Guard.

Stalwart + Electrify + Lightning Rod has 3 darts!
My guess is that Stalwart makes DD act like it hits both mons, triggering Lightning Rod's ability, but the fact that only one mon is left to take damage means it eats both hits. Something similar happens with accuracy and Blunder Policy.

What if both Dragapult and its ally have Telepathy and it uses Dragon Darts on itself via Ally Swap?
Unfortunately, Dragapult is not protected by its own Telepathy.

=====

Here is my spreadsheet of ALL MY TESTS and the results. I have a large number of videos there that I didn't link here, but you can use for additional examples.

=====

Credit should always be given, so here I thank peach. She spent a lot of time listening to my ideas, helping me brainstorm new tests to formulate our theory, and organizing my spreadsheet. I'll see you in grief counseling.

=====

Part 2 here.
 
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Maybe stupid question, but... in double battles, does GMax Toxtricity GMax move paralyze only the target, both opponents (basically the same as Pikas GMax attack), or all mons (except Toxtri, of course) including yours?
 
Maybe stupid question, but... in double battles, does GMax Toxtricity GMax move paralyze only the target, both opponents (basically the same as Pikas GMax attack), or all mons (except Toxtri, of course) including yours?
The attack will attempt to paralyze or poison its target and nothing else.
 
The attack will attempt to paralyze or poison its target and nothing else.
Ok, thank you. So it´s not that viable (the toss between Poison and Para, plus the fact that the effect only affect the target (which you would probably want to ko anyway, as to use your G-Max turns to maximal effect), so... In the end, I think that the classic Max Lightning is the better option in this case.
 
In general, considering dmaxing Toxtricity means losing his ability as well (as Max Strike and Lightning from Boomburst/Overdrive won't be sound based anymore), he shouldn't be your Dynamax to begin with unless you really need it to survive an attack or something anyway.
 
The attack will attempt to paralyze or poison its target and nothing else.
Now that´s weird. I just got the usual Pokemon Newsletter, where they talk about G-Max Toxtri, and they specificaly say, that it´s G-Max attack paralyzes or poisons ALL opponents.
 
Now that´s weird. I just got the usual Pokemon Newsletter, where they talk about G-Max Toxtri, and they specificaly say, that it´s G-Max attack paralyzes or poisons ALL opponents.
I'm going off the data I know, i'd be happy to be proven wrong don't worry :)
 

Anubis

HONK
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Maybe stupid question, but... in double battles, does GMax Toxtricity GMax move paralyze only the target, both opponents (basically the same as Pikas GMax attack), or all mons (except Toxtri, of course) including yours?
I'm going off the data I know, i'd be happy to be proven wrong don't worry :)
G-Max Stun Shock does status both opponents.

A couple other things:
Thanks to Tempo420 on PS, we see that Wandering Spirit activates on the first hit of a multi-hit move.

This led TI to ask if we were handling secondaries vs abilities wrong, and apparently we are since Fire Lash's Def drop happens before Cotton Down activates.
 
If Wandering Spirit user gets hit physically by a water move from a water pokemon with ability Dry skin , Storm Drain , Water absorb it then gets their abilities? Good against clamp users.
Grass pokemon with Sap sipper uses horn leach against it and then the second turn it's immune to grass moves.
A fire type with Flash fire the same.

If Wandering spirit gets hit by a Sturdy user with a move that would normally KO it, will the ability get copied before that happens and make the Wandering spirit user stay with only 1hp on the field or will it faint?
 

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