Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

[GeneralNameless]

Nice.
Someone should also check how Shell Side Arm interacts with Ice Face. I'm gonna guess its going to continue to impress us and always hit special, though any tester should set up with Curse or Belly Drum to make sure they're favoring the attack stat because Eiscue's base defense is quite good.

 

[Rarycaris]

Does Shell Side Arm correctly take Wonder Room into consideration? What about effects which modify base power of moves depending on whether they're physical or special? (I think Muscle Band and Wise Glasses do this)

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Isn't jungle healing meant to heal the status effects of you and your partner as well as healing 25%.

Right now it doesn't on showdown

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1135509059

 

[thelandlordsmm]

Is Expanding Force a 50% boost or double?

 

[OPStellar]

Oh, boy, this is going to be fun.

So you know how Shell Side Arm is based on Special Attack, but the damage dealt is based on the target's weaker defense (similar to how the 'Download' Ability functions)?
This can help us tell whether Ice Scales doubles a Pokémon's special defense or halves the attacking stat of the attacking Pokémon, and stuff.
You get the idea.
Applying a similar process to Fur Coat, we might discover some interesting things.

 

[idea]

We already know ice scales doesn't double special defence since it reduces the damage taken from special moves that target defence OPStellar

 

[Tmi489]

We already know ice scales doesn't double special defence since it reduces the damage taken from special moves that target defence OPStellar

regardless, SSA will target whichever move deals more damage; so (if it takes account abilities) a phys SSA on BH eternatus could reveal Ice Scales and VV, or at least reveal what it doesn't have

 

[Pokeron]

Meteor Beam + Power Herb grants +1 Spa and fires of the beam, just tested with Starmie on Route 10.


Sorry if itd already known

 

[Count Bleck]

Unsure if this was known, but Corrosive Gas does not affect the user. It does however affect all others on the field, ally included. So as far as singles is concerned, its a damageless knock off.

 

[Marty]

More Shell Side Arm testing!

I started by using a Slowbro with 141 Attack and 141 Sp. Atk to attack a wild Ditto Transformed into something with 6 Defense and 6 Sp. Def. I expected the Special version only, but it randomly chose Physical or Special every time I reset. So I went to find a wild Wooper and caught it a few dozen times to check its HP.

If this is confusing, basically when all the rolls are the same for Physical and Special damage, Shell Side Arm will pick one at random. This may or may not be a good thing since the physical version is also contact.

Other things of note: Muscle Band and Choice Band don't affect what category Shell Side Arm uses. Slapped them on the 141/141 Slowbro against the 6/6 Ditto and it kept using the Special animation half the time.

 

[Tmi489]

.

kinda related, but do we know if SSA interacts with abilities (fur coat, ice scales, fluffy), the latter of which is interesting bc it lowers contact moves

 

[Rarycaris]

Related: does physical SSA trigger Rocky Helmet or Iron Barbs etc? I would assume it's designated as non-contact regardless of stat used, but worth checking.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Related: does physical SSA trigger Rocky Helmet or Iron Barbs etc? I would assume it's designated as non-contact regardless of stat used, but worth checking.

If it uses the physical animation, it's contact.

 

[Count Bleck]

Very interesting...this implies that SSA will be boosted by Tough Claws if its physical. In that case, would it take into account its abilty before deciding which does more?

 

[OPStellar]

More Shell Side Arm testing!

I started by using a Slowbro with 141 Attack and 141 Sp. Atk to attack a wild Ditto Transformed into something with 6 Defense and 6 Sp. Def. I expected the Special version only, but it randomly chose Physical or Special every time I reset. So I went to find a wild Wooper and caught it a few dozen times to check its HP.

If this is confusing, basically when all the rolls are the same for Physical and Special damage, Shell Side Arm will pick one at random. This may or may not be a good thing since the physical version is also contact.

Other things of note: Muscle Band and Choice Band don't affect what category Shell Side Arm uses. Slapped them on the 141/141 Slowbro against the 6/6 Ditto and it kept using the Special animation half the time.

I'm pretty sure the damage dealt is what's special or physical, not the attacking stat.
For example, if this Pokémon was burned (halving its attack), but the opponent's Physical defense was the weaker one, it would still deal damage based on their Defense.
Right? (plz test)
If this is the case, then Ice Scales on any Pokémon should halve the power of Shell Side Arm, right?
Again, I think in metagames. I am sorry for how not simple it is to figure these mechanics out.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Is Expanding Force a 50% boost or double?

DaWoblefet ran some damage rolls with Expanding Force, from which we can determine that if the adjustment is as simple as replacing Expanding Force's BP, the only values it can be increased to that are consistent with all the observed rolls are 123, 124, 125, and 126. Notably, 123 plus an ordinary terrain boost gives 160, which I believe is more indicative of an alternative explanation: If Expanding Force has the matching terrain, it rejects the ordinary Psychic Terrain boost modifier of about 1.3x, and replaces it with an alternative boost of 2.0x.

We could narrow this possibility down for sure with a complicated setup in which Wise Glasses Analytic Starmie receives two Helping Hand boosts on the same turn leading up to the move, but I don't have the means to test that.

[EDIT] no, turns out the tests that led to that conclusion were predicated on a transcription error

 

[viol and bass]

Other things of note: Muscle Band and Choice Band don't affect what category Shell Side Arm uses. Slapped them on the 141/141 Slowbro against the 6/6 Ditto and it kept using the Special animation half the time.

I thought we'd previously established that the game decides the category based on which will do more damage. If it's ignoring Choice Band in its calculation, then that assumption was wrong. Choice Band with equal attacking stats and equal defensive stats means a physical attack would do more damage, but it's rolling special half the time. Does this indicate that the calculation is in fact based purely on the opponent's defensive stats? Or just that it ignores modifiers?

Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood the table. Since it is kind of using actual damage output, I think it must be ignoring the choice band's modifier?

 

[LatiosRider]

Does Terrain Pulse get boosted by Mega Launcher? I noticed Clawitzer does learn it via tutor.

It appears that Terrain Pulse is indeed boosted by Mega Launcher. I tested in-game with a Clawitzer with 164 Special Attack targeting my Psychic Surge Indeedee-F with 246 Special Defense.

While Psychic Terrain was up, Terrain Pulse did 31 and 32 damage, and after it wore off, it did 24 and 25 damage. Those damage rolls can only happen if Terrain Pulse gets the 50% boost from Mega Launcher. So basically as long as a terrain is up, Clawitzer has an effective base 195 coverage move combining the Mega Launcher and terrain boosts.

 

[Lectrys]

I'd still like to know the answer to this:

Also, are Poison-types and/or Steel-types immune to Corrosive Gas? (We could have either a Thunder Wave situation or a Glare situation here.)

 

[Gliwick]

Does Burning Jealousy burn you the turn you acquired boosts via Spectral Thief? Power/Guard/Heart Swap?

 

[LatiosRider]

I'd still like to know the answer to this:

I checked in-game. My Gengar was able to corrode the item of both my Magnezone and Eternatus, so Corrosive Gas works on Poison and Steel types. Which I guess makes sense since it's targeting the item, not the Pokemon.

 

[Rarycaris]

Does Corrosive Gas cause the item to be outright destroyed, or does it work like Knock Off?

 

[LatiosRider]

Does Corrosive Gas cause the item to be outright destroyed, or does it work like Knock Off?

If you mean will the item be gone after an in-game battle unlike with Knock Off, I can't really test that. In the battle itself though, the item is destroyed. You can't use Recycle, and you can steal an item using Thief, which I tested in-game with Gengar and Garbodor.

 

[Hematite]

Out of curiosity, can anyone confirm whether Shell Side Arm's only options are full physical or full special?
This post seems to suggest that it can also mix and match Defense and Special Attack (like Psyshock) or Attack and Special Defense:

Here’s a relevant calc:

Lvl 55 0- Atk Slowbro Poison Jab vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Chansey: 225-265 (57.9 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This assumes Slowbro is Poison-type and Poison Jab is 90 BP. This also assumes SSA actually does pull from the Attack stat when calculating against the opposing Defense stat. Now, here’s the same scenario but with the Adamant nature and Attack EVs:

Lvl 55 252+ Atk Slowbro Poison Jab vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Chansey: 348-409 (89.6 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

The Chansey in the wild most likely had less Defense IVs because they consistently got OHKOd.

I haven't really seen anyone follow up on this, either to confirm it or deny it - it seems like most people are still operating under the assumption that this isn't possible/that it always uses matching Attack and Defense stats, but I'm not sure if this was actually proven wrong or if it was just overlooked.
I would really like to see this tested if possible!

 

[Vengeance417]

Out of curiosity, can anyone confirm whether Shell Side Arm's only options are full physical or full special?
This post seems to suggest that it can also mix and match Defense and Special Attack (like Psyshock) or Attack and Special Defense:
I haven't really seen anyone follow up on this, either to confirm it or deny it - it seems like most people are still operating under the assumption that this isn't possible/that it always uses matching Attack and Defense stats, but I'm not sure if this was actually proven wrong or if it was just overlooked.
I would really like to see this tested if possible!

That's essentially my theory after testing this a few days ago. For the sake of bringing this topic back up, I'll recall what happened during those tests.

I had a Galarian Slowbro at Level 55, and my targets were Level 60 Chansey. My first test was to have my Slowbro use a Modest nature and max Special Attack EVs and no Attack investment. My Special Attack was in the 170s, while my Attack was in the 110s. I wanted to see if Shell Side Arm worked like (but not exactly like) Psyshock, where the attack pulls from the Special Attack stat and attacks the opponent's Defense if it happened to be lower than the Special Defense. During this test, Shell Side Arm used the physical animation, and my Slowbro OHKOd the Chansey, confirming my suspicion. I'm not convinced that when Shell Side Arm shows the physical animation, it's directly pulling from the Attack stat itself because let me pull up this calc again:

Lvl 55 0- Atk Slowbro Poison Jab vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Chansey: 225-265 (57.9 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Again, this assumes Slowbro is Poison-type, has an Attack stat of 100, and Poison Jab is 90 BP. This is nowhere close to an OHKO, but my opponent Chansey was OHKOd regardless while I was using 252 Special Attack, a Modest nature, and 0 Attack EVs.

My next test was to see if Shell Side Arm only ever pulled from the Special Attack stat at all, considering it's listed as a Special move in its description (similar scenario with Psyshock and Necrozma's Photon Geyser). I used a bunch of Hondew Berries to remove the SpA, used an Adamant mint, and pumped 252 Attack EVs. The stat numbers this time were the same as before but in reverse, with the Attack being in the 170s while the Special Attack was in the 110s.

Once again, Slowbro used the physical animation for Shell Side Arm and OHKOd Chansey.

Here's the calc for Shell Side Arm vs Chansey when the Attack stat is factored in:

Lvl 55 252+ Atk Slowbro Poison Jab vs. Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Chansey: 348-409 (89.6 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (the Chansey in the wild most likely had less Defense IVs than 31 because they consistently got OHKOd)

From my perspective, this move is extremely smart. It seems to be using Galarian Slowbro's highest attacking stat, whether it's from its Attack or Special Attack stats, and translates that higher stat number to either physical or special damage depending on which defensive stat from the opponent is the lesser of the two. It's like a much better version of Photon Geyser that adapts to the situation at hand. I'd also like to see more people test this out to see what they think about all this.