HP is better because it improves both defenses at once.
That said, what kind of set do you want to use on it? Those builds you listed are very subpar, and an optimized build probably has EV shifting and stuff.
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Pokémon Sylveon
- Thread starter cartercr
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HP is better because it improves both defenses at once.
That said, what kind of set do you want to use on it? Those builds you listed are very subpar, and an optimized build probably has EV shifting and stuff.
Oh, thanks, now I got it (:
So, I was thinking of something more offensive, like Moonblast, Shadow Ball, Calm Mind and not sure about the last move. Which nature do you think is better?
You could use one of the CM sets listed in the OP.
Alternatively, you can play around with the EVs. Try different EV spreads based on what suits your team. Or do something like use SubCM with Wish>Sub.
If you wanted offensive then 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe Modest is listed in the OP, but I seriously doubt that's even close to optimized. Just run enough Speed to outspeed whatever you need to, enough Special Attack to nab certain KOs, and dump the rest in HP or something.
(I personally have serious doubts on that set but it seems decent enough on paper.)
Ok guys, this is my first post and I've made it my goal to make Sylveon as well rounded as possible as I really want it to be part of my team.
I'm currently running:
Bold/130 HP/252 Def/126 SpD
Item: leftovers
Draining kiss
Shadow ball
Reflect
calm mind
The idea here was to get both defences balanced out so Sylveon could take hits from either side. Shadow ball is for neutral damage against most, reflect could be used against known physical attackers and calm mind would naturally be used to boost SpA/SpD for draining kiss. The only problem I find with this set is that sometimes it's difficult to set up for a stronger draining kiss because of it's low base speed stat.
So here's a set I'm thinking of trying out
Bold/?? Def/ ??SpD (not sure about these honestly)
Item: Life orb
Draining kiss
Moonblast
Shadow ball
Reflect/Calm mind
I definitely want to keep draining kiss (if that wasn't obvious already) so I don't think EVs should be invested in HP as the healing isn't percentage based. Think it would be best to add bulk just by investing in both defenses. I'm thinking life orb would be good to reduce the number of turns needed to set up and would remove the need to invest EVs in SpA (base 110). The HP lost from life orb would hopefully be recovered from a stronger draining kiss right off the bat, moonblast is there as a stronger stab option, and the last 2 move slots are for the same purpose as the above set. Not sure if this is a viable but I think with the right EVs this could definitely make for a balanced sylveon. Would appreciate any feedback/insight =)
edit:
Just thought of this set also!
Bold/252 Def/252 SpA
Item: Assault Vest
Draining kiss
Shadow Ball
Moonblast
Psyshock
I think this set manages to balance out both defenses for good bulk and the assault vest allows for room to max out EVs in SpA (for a nice total of 350). I think the moves are pretty self explanatory here!
I'm currently running:
Bold/130 HP/252 Def/126 SpD
Item: leftovers
Draining kiss
Shadow ball
Reflect
calm mind
The idea here was to get both defences balanced out so Sylveon could take hits from either side. Shadow ball is for neutral damage against most, reflect could be used against known physical attackers and calm mind would naturally be used to boost SpA/SpD for draining kiss. The only problem I find with this set is that sometimes it's difficult to set up for a stronger draining kiss because of it's low base speed stat.
So here's a set I'm thinking of trying out
Bold/?? Def/ ??SpD (not sure about these honestly)
Item: Life orb
Draining kiss
Moonblast
Shadow ball
Reflect/Calm mind
I definitely want to keep draining kiss (if that wasn't obvious already) so I don't think EVs should be invested in HP as the healing isn't percentage based. Think it would be best to add bulk just by investing in both defenses. I'm thinking life orb would be good to reduce the number of turns needed to set up and would remove the need to invest EVs in SpA (base 110). The HP lost from life orb would hopefully be recovered from a stronger draining kiss right off the bat, moonblast is there as a stronger stab option, and the last 2 move slots are for the same purpose as the above set. Not sure if this is a viable but I think with the right EVs this could definitely make for a balanced sylveon. Would appreciate any feedback/insight =)
edit:
Just thought of this set also!
Bold/252 Def/252 SpA
Item: Assault Vest
Draining kiss
Shadow Ball
Moonblast
Psyshock
I think this set manages to balance out both defenses for good bulk and the assault vest allows for room to max out EVs in SpA (for a nice total of 350). I think the moves are pretty self explanatory here!
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You know, in all honesty, I don't really like coverage moves on CM Sylveon, particularly SubCM variants. Being one of those bulkier boosters whose goal is to set up multiple boosts and sweep, I feel like Sylveon should be able to just power through things with Moonblast / Hyper Voice alone. Additionally, I think something like Shadow Ball honestly gets somewhat redundant coverage bar MGengar and Metagross(?), simply because the lack of SE coverage on anything else makes you unable to really break anything that Fairy STABs couldn't. And tbh, I don't think this thing ever really sweeps, at least from my experiences. I think the most favorable CM Sylveon out there is one that can also function somewhat as a support unit, while still being able to power through certain threats when needed.
Now, if there's one SubCM Sylveon I do like, it's one with Baton Pass. Baton Pass is a really cool pivoting move when you're in a pinch, and even moreso for Sylveon--because it can pass boosts rather than just dry passing, the support for teammates only increases. This also lets you still make use of your hard-earned boosts if Sylveon itself can't sweep (which is very likely). Sylveon doesn't wall everything--oftentimes it just needs to switch in and gtfo the next turn. From what I've seen, Baton Pass is easily the best way to get this done.
Now, if there's one SubCM Sylveon I do like, it's one with Baton Pass. Baton Pass is a really cool pivoting move when you're in a pinch, and even moreso for Sylveon--because it can pass boosts rather than just dry passing, the support for teammates only increases. This also lets you still make use of your hard-earned boosts if Sylveon itself can't sweep (which is very likely). Sylveon doesn't wall everything--oftentimes it just needs to switch in and gtfo the next turn. From what I've seen, Baton Pass is easily the best way to get this done.
Adapted from a decade old GSC strategy:
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Def / 240 HP / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
Cleric support and status absorption. 240 HP EVs to minimise residual damage, and 16 Speed to beat Tyranitars running 4 Speed EVs.
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Def / 240 HP / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
Cleric support and status absorption. 240 HP EVs to minimise residual damage, and 16 Speed to beat Tyranitars running 4 Speed EVs.
So I have been mucking around with the Pixilate ability to see what can come out of it
Item: Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 56 HP / 80 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 120 Sp. Def (I am unsure about these numbers, but what I used was very similar)
Nature: Modest
- Swift
- Moonblast
- Hyper Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
From calculations I have done, this thing can take down a 252+ Sp. Def / 252 HP Goodra in one hit with Hyper Beam, and can absolutely demolish a Hydreigion (I was getting around 450% damage dealt to it with the calcs). The main issues I am seeing with this setup is that it is pretty useless once it takes down a dragon with hyper beam, but if there is an item that allows that recharge turn to not occur, it would be worth foregoing the plate.
Regarding the spread of EVs, a small amount is put into defence as most of the poison and steel attacks are physical ones, so it gives a little bit of a safety net.
As for the moves, you can't really argue with a 60 power (plus the extra added on by HA and STAB (if it allows it), as well as if it is super effective) that never misses. I would replace dazzling gleam if I had to, but I am unsure what to replace it with, so ideas are welcome.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, this was all just some experimentation on my behalf, and am open for criticism, both helpful and not.
Item: Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 56 HP / 80 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 120 Sp. Def (I am unsure about these numbers, but what I used was very similar)
Nature: Modest
- Swift
- Moonblast
- Hyper Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
From calculations I have done, this thing can take down a 252+ Sp. Def / 252 HP Goodra in one hit with Hyper Beam, and can absolutely demolish a Hydreigion (I was getting around 450% damage dealt to it with the calcs). The main issues I am seeing with this setup is that it is pretty useless once it takes down a dragon with hyper beam, but if there is an item that allows that recharge turn to not occur, it would be worth foregoing the plate.
Regarding the spread of EVs, a small amount is put into defence as most of the poison and steel attacks are physical ones, so it gives a little bit of a safety net.
As for the moves, you can't really argue with a 60 power (plus the extra added on by HA and STAB (if it allows it), as well as if it is super effective) that never misses. I would replace dazzling gleam if I had to, but I am unsure what to replace it with, so ideas are welcome.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, this was all just some experimentation on my behalf, and am open for criticism, both helpful and not.
Hyper Beam is a terrible move, even with the pixilate boost. Foregoing your item slot for one attack, one time is not necessary. No dragon is going to keep their dragon in on a Sylveon. They'll switch to their fairy resist on your Hyper beam, and you basically wasted your item, and have a worthless move for the rest of the game.
Also, you can't run 4 offensive attacks on the same set. Even 2 is a bit excessive. There's literally no use for having Moonblast and Dazzling Gleam on the same set. Moonblast is 100% better than both Hyper Beam, Swift and Dazzling Gleam. The only reason to use Pixilate is for Hyper Voice, once that comes out.
Your ev spread also looks...really strange. What is that meant to accomplish exactly? 252 hp/252 sp.atk is the general spread on offensive sylveon, and 252 hp/252 def is the standard for wall sylveons.
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What I was going for was to utilise the strengths of Sylveon (namely Sp. Atk), and get the most out of it. The Defence ones were there to hopefully save its ass when it gets hit by a physical attack. Again, all of this was experimental, and what you said has helped out a fair bit. Thanks!
If you just really want to use Pixilate, then try the following in PokeBank OU:
Sylveon@leftovers
252 Def/ 252 HP / 4 Spd
Bold nature, Pixilate/Cute Charm (if you're running pre-pokebank)
-Hyper Voice/Moonblast (if you're running pre-pokebank)
-Wish
-Protect
-Calm Mind
I've seen this posted a while back, and while I ordinarily don't like Mono-attacking sets, I feel like with fairy's solid coverage, this could have lots of potential. You might find some success for it.
The problem with silveon is that Florges outclasses it in literally every category. Her base 68 defenses and astronomical base 154 special defense provides her with the ability to absorb attacks like jupiter's gravity well. On the offensive side, Florges gets 112 special attack paired with a not so impressive but better than sylveon, base 75 speed. They essentially share move pools as well, but rather than shadow ball, Florges has access to harder hitting, more versatile grass moves.
lol
Florges as worse physical bulk, only marginally better special bulk (which doesn't actually matter unless you're against a Specs Hydreigon with Flash Cannon or something), and a tiny movepool. Grass-type moves suck shit, especially when you don't have STAB on them. You see any good offensive Grass-types in higher tiers? You got Venusaur (last gen), Roserade, and Celebi. What do the latter two who can actually go offensive this gen have in common? High-powered STAB Leaf Storm (as in--REALLY high powered). Florges's best Grass-type move is Energy Ball, which doesn't do anything other than OHKO Gastrodon. And the Special Attack is only 2 points better, and it's not like Sylveon is using Speed anyways.
Sylveon, meanwhile, has Pixilate Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, Psyshock, and a ton of other options that usually aren't worth a slot but sometimes are.
There's no reason to use Florges over Sylveon.
Well, it's sylveon, for one. For two, it only gets... energy ball, petal blizzard and petal dance, the last is highly NOT recommended IMO. Also, syvleon has 20 ( I think) more Hp, which means it can take more damage from physical attacks. Also pixellate hyper voice, and the fact that sylveon's special bulk almost matches Floges's.
Hyper voice really isn't anything to to be concerned with and psyshock is best reserved for psychic types. There are also much better candidates for shadow ball than sylveon, and with offensive nuances ruled out, Florges can take hits like a steel magnolia, giving her more room to do what they both do well; clerical support.
Sylveon can take hits just as well as Florges really, since no one is really going to be spamming Special attacks on either, and Sylveon can actually take a physical attack or two. Pixilate Hyper Voice is a 117 BP Special Fairy-type move that goes through Substitute, of course that's something to be concerned with. Psyshock is not really run on a lot of Sylveon anyways, but at least it's something. And Shadow Ball makes Sylveon a better mon offensively, because it actually has a little bit of coverage, and is good on defensive sets too.
None of the shadow ball sylveons I've seen really panned out. Sylveon, like Florges, is best as a cleric, and with the same special defense as lugia, Florges can take hits better than sylveon.
Let's see... Grass still doesn't help florges with poison or steel types, while shadow ball at least hits them neutrally. Both are still NVe on fire, while ghost is at least neutral against most. Psyshock is most useful against other special walls., but you should know that already. though I will give florges aromatherapy, sylveon will eventually have heal bell.
Florges can take Special hits a little bit better. But Sylveon can take a couple physical hits if it needs to. The Special defense stat itself is useless without the HP (see: Shuckle). Sylveon can also viably run Calm Mind, it's just that you haven't seen a good CM Sylveon yet. I haven't seen a well-played Sableye either. Does that mean anything? No.
Let's look at bulk:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA Bold:
Sylveon: 394 HP, 251 Def, 291 SpD (99894 physical, 114654 special)
Florges: 360 HP, 258 Def, 339 SpD (92800 physical, 122040 special)
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD Calm:
Sylveon: 394 HP, 161 Def, 394 SpD (63434 physical, 155236 special)
Florges: 360 HP, 167 Def, 447 SpD (60120 physical, 160920 special)
The Special bulk difference is really negligible since no one really spams Special moves on either one anyways. But the physical bulk difference is noticeable, Sylveon can survive more hits that will be aimed at it than Florges will, letting it switch into stuff like Scarfed Garchomps.
I run a Calm Mind sylveon and as long as it can survive a turn or two it does fine. Shadow ball is definitely needed for types like Chandelure, steel-types (god forbid but it does happen), and fire types. Calm Mind sylveon often puts blissey at about/nearly half at +4 or +5 which is usually achievable believe it or not.
The only pokemon I don't think sylveon can face period are Mawile, Muk, +2 Garchomp w/ Poison Jab, and Metagross (unless meteor mash misses which does happen, but then it has other things). Probably others (*cough* Klefki *cough*) but then again Sylveon should never be pit against these anyway.
The only pokemon I don't think sylveon can face period are Mawile, Muk, +2 Garchomp w/ Poison Jab, and Metagross (unless meteor mash misses which does happen, but then it has other things). Probably others (*cough* Klefki *cough*) but then again Sylveon should never be pit against these anyway.
I really like the move set, but I think this could also work well with a more offensive spread. Mono Attacking with Sylveon can hit many enemies surprisingly hard, having the challenge of figuring out how to get around Rest Talk Heal Bell would be a major thorn too. I think the same moves with more offensive threat would also be a good set.
I haven´t seen anyone list this set and in theory I think it would work pretty well. I'm breeding an Eevee right now to try it out:
Sylveon Leftovers
Bold 252 HP/252 Def/6 SpDef
Cute Charm
Wish
Substitute
Baton Pass
Moonblast
I see Sylveon a decent Wish and Sub passer with its bulk and its "low" speed actually helps it out with Baton Pass taking the hit itself instead of the Wish receiver. With his set you can potentially be passing on a 200 wish and 100 sub, which isn´t bad at all tbh. I'm probably overlooking something here and that's why this set isn't recommended.
Sylveon Leftovers
Bold 252 HP/252 Def/6 SpDef
Cute Charm
Wish
Substitute
Baton Pass
Moonblast
I see Sylveon a decent Wish and Sub passer with its bulk and its "low" speed actually helps it out with Baton Pass taking the hit itself instead of the Wish receiver. With his set you can potentially be passing on a 200 wish and 100 sub, which isn´t bad at all tbh. I'm probably overlooking something here and that's why this set isn't recommended.
I think Sylveon is a very underrated threat.
I run
252 HP/252 DEF Bold
-Hyper Voice
-Calm Mind
-Wish
-Baton Pass
You would be surprised at how many teams this can sweep. The things about Sylveon is that there are good many teams out there that only have 2 or 3 stab physical moves, and 1 of those is always fighting type, usually another one of those is bug, and dark is another common physical stab.
A lot of times I will bring in Sylveon on a special attacker and get 2 or boosts real quick because sylveon is not seen as a threatening set up poke, and at that point, I pretty much OHKO everybody who can 2HKO me. I was shocked at how often people just forfeit once they let me set up. I agree with what others have said that you dont really need, and are worse off with coverage moves, at least as a sweeper. Shadow Ball wont help you sweep really, Hyper Voice is so good its all you need, nobody is immune. If you have a really bulky foe you can always go to +6 and kill them, cuz nobody that bulky can kill you, especially since I run wish.
Which brings me to the other great thing about sylveon, sweeping is just a side project. this thing has so much value to a team. It takes similar % from special attacks to blissey or sp-def invested pokes like heatran or tyranitar. It passes wishes at the very least. One of my favorite things to do is to boost up with calm mind, and the opponent will toxic or burn me, thinking they've got me cornered and on a time limit. but then I just get to +4/+4 or so and pass to my toxic orb swords dance gliscor and its gg. Usually my games end up with sylveon sweeeping or passing calm minds to gliscor who sweeps, or gliscor just sweeps on his own.
And I cannot tell you how many times hyper voice going thorugh subs has saved me. Sylveon has become my go to switch against subseeders and baton pass chains. I just come in. boost with them, or boost while they think they are whittling me down with leech seed. I wish to stay healthy. and then once im at +4/+4 or so, I kill them through their sub (its great that its no completely common knowledge that sylveon can hit through subs) and its probably gg at that point.
a general strategy that I've been using that I think is very effective in this metagame- using fully defense invested set up sweepers. My Gliscor runs max HP, some speed and defense. The two of them are very hard to stop from setting up because they take random attacks that you dont think they would and still have the power to hit back for the kill. and the beauty of max defenses and healing moves like roost and wish is that your sweep isnt ruined by phazers either.
the only problems i run into are when i cant kill something at +6, which is shameful, but rarely happens. MY gliscor has just EQ and Rock Slide to attack with, so somebody like Bronzong is gonna wall me at +6, skarm can too but odds are i will win with my 45% or so rock slide get a few flinches
I run
252 HP/252 DEF Bold
-Hyper Voice
-Calm Mind
-Wish
-Baton Pass
You would be surprised at how many teams this can sweep. The things about Sylveon is that there are good many teams out there that only have 2 or 3 stab physical moves, and 1 of those is always fighting type, usually another one of those is bug, and dark is another common physical stab.
A lot of times I will bring in Sylveon on a special attacker and get 2 or boosts real quick because sylveon is not seen as a threatening set up poke, and at that point, I pretty much OHKO everybody who can 2HKO me. I was shocked at how often people just forfeit once they let me set up. I agree with what others have said that you dont really need, and are worse off with coverage moves, at least as a sweeper. Shadow Ball wont help you sweep really, Hyper Voice is so good its all you need, nobody is immune. If you have a really bulky foe you can always go to +6 and kill them, cuz nobody that bulky can kill you, especially since I run wish.
Which brings me to the other great thing about sylveon, sweeping is just a side project. this thing has so much value to a team. It takes similar % from special attacks to blissey or sp-def invested pokes like heatran or tyranitar. It passes wishes at the very least. One of my favorite things to do is to boost up with calm mind, and the opponent will toxic or burn me, thinking they've got me cornered and on a time limit. but then I just get to +4/+4 or so and pass to my toxic orb swords dance gliscor and its gg. Usually my games end up with sylveon sweeeping or passing calm minds to gliscor who sweeps, or gliscor just sweeps on his own.
And I cannot tell you how many times hyper voice going thorugh subs has saved me. Sylveon has become my go to switch against subseeders and baton pass chains. I just come in. boost with them, or boost while they think they are whittling me down with leech seed. I wish to stay healthy. and then once im at +4/+4 or so, I kill them through their sub (its great that its no completely common knowledge that sylveon can hit through subs) and its probably gg at that point.
a general strategy that I've been using that I think is very effective in this metagame- using fully defense invested set up sweepers. My Gliscor runs max HP, some speed and defense. The two of them are very hard to stop from setting up because they take random attacks that you dont think they would and still have the power to hit back for the kill. and the beauty of max defenses and healing moves like roost and wish is that your sweep isnt ruined by phazers either.
the only problems i run into are when i cant kill something at +6, which is shameful, but rarely happens. MY gliscor has just EQ and Rock Slide to attack with, so somebody like Bronzong is gonna wall me at +6, skarm can too but odds are i will win with my 45% or so rock slide get a few flinches
Then what about the popular Aegislash? Without shadowball fairy type moves tickle it. And swords dance boosts faster than calm mind. Then you baton pass to gliscor? What's swords gliscor gonna do to fast threats with ice beam? Like the popular greninja? Gliscor isnt exactly great in the speed department. So dont you think gliscors sweeps are easily stopped? Don't mean to be a party pooper just wondering.
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