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Pokémon Sylveon
- Thread starter cartercr
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Hardly. Sylveon is much too slow to sweep without somehow boosting its speed and Echoed Voice takes 3 turns to reach insane power. On its second turn its still not as powerful as Hyper Voice (though not by much to be fair), if your opponent can't find a way to stop Sylveon by the third turn they were probably kinda bad anyway. There's not even any surprise in it lol. Choice Specs Hyper Beam would be better, definitely would surprise anyone expecting Sylveon to use Wish or something similar but it's still very gimmicky.
Choice Scarf could work better with Echoed Voice, especially in the lower tiers where Sylveon might fall. If you can get to turn 3 (208 BP not including STAB lol) you can probably get to turn 4 which means you get a no drawbacks move stronger than a STAB explosion. It seems really, really gimmicky but if you think of Echoed Voice as a stat boosting move, which it basically is, you get to combine a Choice item with a stat boosting move that inflicts damage at the same time! Pretty neat. Wish Eevee got Switcheroo though, it makes sense! :/
Sylveon needs any help it can get differentiating itself from Florges, that's the simple truth, and its offensive sets might be its best bet there.
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With Sticky Web support, you might have something to help Sylveon's lower speed, but even then, Gardevoir/Mega Gardevoir is the superior option in the offensive special attack department (and Togekiss for that matter). The annoying thing about Sylveon's speed in regards to sweeping, it's too slow to make proper use of its speed, and yet too 'fast' for a Trick Room strategy.
Even if Sylveon did manage to outrun stuff with some support, it would still cringe from the likes of Bullet Punches, which won't care about how fast Sylveon is. I think you're better off sponging the hits and Wish support, but hey, I'm all for testing different sets on Sylveon.
Even if Sylveon did manage to outrun stuff with some support, it would still cringe from the likes of Bullet Punches, which won't care about how fast Sylveon is. I think you're better off sponging the hits and Wish support, but hey, I'm all for testing different sets on Sylveon.
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Once Hypervoice (175BP after ability boost) is available, I think Sylveon could become one of the stronger special attackers in Gen VI, somewhat comparable in speed, and more specially bulky than Magnezone of Gen V, with Sylveon dealing more damage despite sporting 20 less SpA as long as it's using Pixelated Hyper Voice. Unlike M-Gardevoir, Sylveon can hold an item while having access to Pixelate, and is slightly bulkier (but obviously slower). Theoretically, it could boost its damage further with Choice Specs, and with SR/Spike support, there are few things that can avoid a OHKO from Hyper Voice short of special walls and those that resist Fairy. Alternatively, Choice Scarf makes it a fairly bulky Special Sweeper and makes up for its lack of speed.
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Shadow Ball
ability: Pixelate
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (same speed as Scarf Magenzone)
Alternatively, the slower, bulkier, specs user:
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Shadow Ball
ability: Pixelate
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe (again, some EVs should be taken from HP to Speed to depending on comparable speed tiers)
Hidden Power Fire would only be for prediction against a switch-in Scizor as there's no way you can stay in if it comes out, or ground for other Steel/Poison type threats, but for the most part, this set would be sticking to Hyper Voice spam, as it's the only move that gets boosted by Sylveon's ability (even resisted, it's stronger than your other options if they're only neutral).
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Shadow Ball
ability: Pixelate
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (same speed as Scarf Magenzone)
Alternatively, the slower, bulkier, specs user:
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Shadow Ball
ability: Pixelate
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe (again, some EVs should be taken from HP to Speed to depending on comparable speed tiers)
Hidden Power Fire would only be for prediction against a switch-in Scizor as there's no way you can stay in if it comes out, or ground for other Steel/Poison type threats, but for the most part, this set would be sticking to Hyper Voice spam, as it's the only move that gets boosted by Sylveon's ability (even resisted, it's stronger than your other options if they're only neutral).
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First off, who runs Quick Attack on Sylveon? Secondly, Sylveon fits more as a supporter than a head on attacker. It's got the bulk and access to Wish to make it so, while also having access to a 117 BP move thanks to Pixelate that allows it to hit hard even with little SpA investment. It's definitely too good for RU.
Which Sylveon set is the best and most effective, thus far?
I wasn't saying it should run quick attack just it isn't that good coverage wise. I was only testing out sylveon in game. I will not say it isn't good :(
Fairy type Hyper Voice + Shadow Ball = near perfect coverage.
why run hyper voice if for 5 more base power you can get moonblast
Because Pixelate changes Normal type moves to Fairy and increases their Base Power by 1.3?
It is established that those type changing abilities gives + 0.3 to the moves power plus STAB; like Life Orb without item, but limited to Normal moves.
Also, Hyper Voice bypasses substitutes and is a multi-target move in Doubles.
sorry, I thought it just turned them into fairy type moves. while not very good, hyper beam would be lethal ...... 150 x 1.8 = is roughly 275 base power.
i love u Sylveon *-*
Hyper Beam is a terrible, terrible move and should never be run unless you like to lose. Giving an opponent a free turn to set up is asking to get destroyed.
I wasn't saying it was any good, I was just saying how powerful it was. try and read my posts better
So, uh...here's a completely insane idea that's probably dumb but I figured I'd mention it:
Physical Sylveon
Ability: Pixielate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def (offensive) 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def or 252 Def/4 SpD (defensive)
Item: Honestly, I'm not sure. Depends on personal preference, I imagine.
~ Quick Attack
~ Double Edge / Return / Protect
~ Curse / Protect
~ Baby-doll Eyes / Wish / Moonblast / Hyper Voice
As you can see, I'm kind of bad at this whole moveset thing. The general idea is similar to Curse Umbreon, but with the not insignificant advantage of STAB +30% priority in Quick Attack and a very hard hitting option in Double Edge/Return. Standard play, switch it in on something that can't really hurt it (choiced Dragon if you're really lucky) and grab a Curse boost on the switch (of note, set does have some surprise factor which means the switch-in may be poorly equipped to handle this set). BDE potentially lets you take the switch-in's initial attack at -2, or the fourth slot can be used for Wish for actual recovery, combined with Protect if desired although this makes offensive options very thin on the ground unless you drop Curse and lose power which is likely a poor idea since mono attacking sets tend to require heavy boosting. Double-Edge vs. Return is power vs. no recoil, as usual. Moonblast may be used since it'll hit pretty hard even without investment, making use of Sylveon's solid special attack.
It's probably little more than a gimmick, but I figured the power boost from Pixielate and the total exclusivity of high physical Fairy damage from this set (especially the priority, since Fighting types usually only fear Talonflame for that) might make it more potent than Curse Umbreon in some circumstances.
EDIT: Hyper Voice is an improvement over Moonblast once it becomes usable, naturally.
Physical Sylveon
Ability: Pixielate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def (offensive) 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def or 252 Def/4 SpD (defensive)
Item: Honestly, I'm not sure. Depends on personal preference, I imagine.
~ Quick Attack
~ Double Edge / Return / Protect
~ Curse / Protect
~ Baby-doll Eyes / Wish / Moonblast / Hyper Voice
As you can see, I'm kind of bad at this whole moveset thing. The general idea is similar to Curse Umbreon, but with the not insignificant advantage of STAB +30% priority in Quick Attack and a very hard hitting option in Double Edge/Return. Standard play, switch it in on something that can't really hurt it (choiced Dragon if you're really lucky) and grab a Curse boost on the switch (of note, set does have some surprise factor which means the switch-in may be poorly equipped to handle this set). BDE potentially lets you take the switch-in's initial attack at -2, or the fourth slot can be used for Wish for actual recovery, combined with Protect if desired although this makes offensive options very thin on the ground unless you drop Curse and lose power which is likely a poor idea since mono attacking sets tend to require heavy boosting. Double-Edge vs. Return is power vs. no recoil, as usual. Moonblast may be used since it'll hit pretty hard even without investment, making use of Sylveon's solid special attack.
It's probably little more than a gimmick, but I figured the power boost from Pixielate and the total exclusivity of high physical Fairy damage from this set (especially the priority, since Fighting types usually only fear Talonflame for that) might make it more potent than Curse Umbreon in some circumstances.
EDIT: Hyper Voice is an improvement over Moonblast once it becomes usable, naturally.
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Had to make an account and ask this question:
I dont have B/W2, and since the only way to get an Hyper Voice Sylv, is to get it from B/W2. As i've gotten into IV breeding, and my current Pix-Sylveon is 6 IVd, I've turned into the perfectionist, but are IVs truly that important? If you have outstanding in Gen 5, will that eevee be alright to bring into X/Y? (That means average IVs are 25+? I believe?).
2nd question: I saw in another post on the OU Analysis, that Pixilate increases Fairy type moves by 30% after changing the move-type, and then incorporates STAB, now, from what I understand Pixilate increases the BP of the normal type move by 30% FIRST, and then changes to Fairy for the STAB. Which is correct?
I dont have B/W2, and since the only way to get an Hyper Voice Sylv, is to get it from B/W2. As i've gotten into IV breeding, and my current Pix-Sylveon is 6 IVd, I've turned into the perfectionist, but are IVs truly that important? If you have outstanding in Gen 5, will that eevee be alright to bring into X/Y? (That means average IVs are 25+? I believe?).
2nd question: I saw in another post on the OU Analysis, that Pixilate increases Fairy type moves by 30% after changing the move-type, and then incorporates STAB, now, from what I understand Pixilate increases the BP of the normal type move by 30% FIRST, and then changes to Fairy for the STAB. Which is correct?
Once I get access to Pokebank, I have a Sylveon I plan to use with Sticky Web support.
Modest/Timid/Calm @ Leftovers/weakness policy/something else
Wish
Heal Bell
Hyper Voice
Shadow Ball
252 in SpA and split rest in SpD and HP.
Pixilate Hyper voice, as has been said, is damn powerful. With Shadow Ball, you get perfect coverage. With Heal Bell and Wish Sylveon also becomes a powerful Cleric. With Sticky Web, she will outspeed a decent amount of things.
Modest/Timid/Calm @ Leftovers/weakness policy/something else
Wish
Heal Bell
Hyper Voice
Shadow Ball
252 in SpA and split rest in SpD and HP.
Pixilate Hyper voice, as has been said, is damn powerful. With Shadow Ball, you get perfect coverage. With Heal Bell and Wish Sylveon also becomes a powerful Cleric. With Sticky Web, she will outspeed a decent amount of things.
How does Sylveon get Hyper Voice? You guys are confusing it with Echoed Voice, the move it actually gets. Any who, I like this set the most
Slyveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
~ Calm Mind
~ Moon Blast
~ Shadow Ball
~ Wish
Its perfect coverage. It utilizes Sylveons great HP stat to heal itself or a team member on a switch out. I think this is the set that will be most successful.
Slyveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
~ Calm Mind
~ Moon Blast
~ Shadow Ball
~ Wish
Its perfect coverage. It utilizes Sylveons great HP stat to heal itself or a team member on a switch out. I think this is the set that will be most successful.
Eevee and evolutions get Hyper Voice from a move tutor in Gen 5. They're all talking about it because it will be Sylveon's best move when Pokebank comes out.
Hello.
I suck at maths so I can't do the calcs on my own. But do you think the last resort attack might be stronger than Hypervoice considering the ability boost? Last resort is physical, so I don't know if being 55 points stronger (at start) compensates the lower attack compared to Special attack.
I know it's probably not worth it for most people due to Last Resort requirements, but it still might be useful and surprise some special walls.
I suck at maths so I can't do the calcs on my own. But do you think the last resort attack might be stronger than Hypervoice considering the ability boost? Last resort is physical, so I don't know if being 55 points stronger (at start) compensates the lower attack compared to Special attack.
I know it's probably not worth it for most people due to Last Resort requirements, but it still might be useful and surprise some special walls.
Sylveon I feel is under-appreciated. Given its base stats and typing, it serves as a better typed Vaporeon, not to mention the access to calm mind makes it a offensive threat, and then of course gives it the livability to wish or CM pass. I feel like if VGC 2014 are bound to the kalos dex, that Sylveon is gonna be our favorite little fairy...if Klefki worship isn't as strong as well all thought.
Mix attack
Ability: Pixielate
EVs:
Item: Life orb
~ Quick Attack/ Giga Impact
~ Psyshock/shadow ball/Dig
~ Work up
~ Moonblast / Hyper Voice / Hyper beam
It just a crazy idea I was thinking of, its not really meant to be taken seriously
Ability: Pixielate
EVs:
Item: Life orb
~ Quick Attack/ Giga Impact
~ Psyshock/shadow ball/Dig
~ Work up
~ Moonblast / Hyper Voice / Hyper beam
It just a crazy idea I was thinking of, its not really meant to be taken seriously
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