Pokémon Talonflame

[SJCrew]

Also switching out a Pokemon immediately after boosting is a big waste.

Incorrect. Boosting stats is a means to an end, not an objective. If the Talonflame can accrue damage on potential checks with SD + U-turn while incurring minimal risk setting up, the feint is worth its while. To 'waste' boosts is a state of mind that newer, greedier, players put themselves in when they think that every boost should result in a sweep. A wall broken or a free switch into another dangerous teammate in place of an active teammate that cannot get the job done is a long term value that results in more wins than blindly hoarding a numerical increase.

 

[Ryan Reed]

Talonflame would have to hit it first with either OH or FB, which is why it's safer sticking to just BB priority. Heliolisk is fast enough to beat it to the punch and KO with Volt Switch/ electric move of choice.

 

[RockStarFish]

I've found a bit of success using a support Talonflame set.

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Def / 128 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Tailwind

128+ Spe investment puts it at 352 Speed; enough to outpace 252+ base 110's. 252 Atk allows it to still deal with a number of dangerous offensive Pokémon with Brave Bird if you can predict the switch-in, such as Terrakion, Latios, Gengar, Espeon, Gyarados without Intimidate, MoxieMence, and (sometimes) MegaXard. It also retains enough power to beat its usual prey with Brave Bird.

96 HP EVs put it at 321 HP; an odd number so it can switch into SR three times, and it's just above a multiple of 16 for more efficient Leftovers recovery. If you want to use Life Orb over Leftovers for more oomph at the cost of HP, run 88 HP EVs instead so you take less LO recoil.

The rest of the EVs are put into Defense so it can take priority attacks a fraction better, particularly Azumarill's Aqua Jet, which fails to OHKO unless it's holding a Choice Band (and Talonflame actually stands a chance to win 1-on-1 if the Aqua Jet isn't item-boosted).

Will-O-Wisp + U-turn really shines on this set. Any competent player is going to switch in a counter the moment they see Talonflame, but this set can cripple the counter (most commonly Rotom-W and Tyranitar, I've noticed) with Will-O-Wisp, then safely U-turn out unless the counter is a Scarfer. 232/0 Rotom-W takes a minimum of 47% from U-turn and the two turns of burn damage it takes in forcing Talonflame out, and 252/0 Tyranitar takes a minimum of 51%.

If you're looking to go on the offense, you can use priority Tailwind before U-turning out to a bulky wallbreaker, such as a Mega. After Tailwind, only Scarf Deoxys-S and priority outspeed Talonflame, and the only priority attack that can OHKO Talonflame is CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet, so U-turning away is very easy.

You need good prediction to use this Talonflame set to its full potential, but it's a nightmare in the right hands and with the right partners.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I've found a bit of success using a support Talonflame set.

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Def / 128 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Tailwind

128+ Spe investment puts it at 352 Speed; enough to outpace 252+ base 110's. 252 Atk allows it to still deal with a number of dangerous offensive Pokémon with Brave Bird if you can predict the switch-in, such as Terrakion, Latios, Gengar, Espeon, Gyarados without Intimidate, MoxieMence, and (sometimes) MegaXard. It also retains enough power to beat its usual prey with Brave Bird.

96 HP EVs put it at 321 HP; an odd number so it can switch into SR three times, and it's just above a multiple of 16 for more efficient Leftovers recovery. If you want to use Life Orb over Leftovers for more oomph at the cost of HP, run 88 HP EVs instead so you take less LO recoil.

The rest of the EVs are put into Defense so it can take priority attacks a fraction better, particularly Azumarill's Aqua Jet, which fails to OHKO unless it's holding a Choice Band (and Talonflame actually stands a chance to win 1-on-1 if the Aqua Jet isn't item-boosted).

Will-O-Wisp + U-turn really shines on this set. Any competent player is going to switch in a counter the moment they see Talonflame, but this set can cripple the counter (most commonly Rotom-W and Tyranitar, I've noticed) with Will-O-Wisp, then safely U-turn out unless the counter is a Scarfer. 232/0 Rotom-W takes a minimum of 47% from U-turn and the two turns of burn damage it takes in forcing Talonflame out, and 252/0 Tyranitar takes a minimum of 51%.

If you're looking to go on the offense, you can use priority Tailwind before U-turning out to a bulky wallbreaker, such as a Mega. After Tailwind, only Scarf Deoxys-S and priority outspeed Talonflame, and the only priority attack that can OHKO Talonflame is CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet, so U-turning away is very easy.

You need good prediction to use this Talonflame set to its full potential, but it's a nightmare in the right hands and with the right partners.

At a glance, I'm a fan. A set that makes full use of Talonflame's best qualities and cripples many of Talonflame's counters without sacrificing any real functionality. Fantastic. Heatran still solidly walls this set and SR is as always, a problem but it's not like Heatran is a mon that isn't lacking in checks of its own.

 

[alexwolf]

I've actually gone outside the box a bit and have been using Me First. Probably not as useful as Will-o-Wisp, but Ice Fanging a Gliscor and Dragon Tailing a Goodra have been priceless. Probably not as good on a Band set as it would be on others though.

Why would any competent Gliscor player use Ice Fang against Talonflame? Toxic, Knock Off, or just Roost stalling it until it dies from recoil are way better options. Follow Me would be useful against Pokemon that don't fear Talonflame's other three moves and want to hit Talonflame with a move that hurts them too. Which are those Pokemon, from a quick check i did in the usage statistics for the top 50 common Pokemon in PokeBank? None. Which means that Me First is 100% useless unless i am missing something.

Now if Talonflame had access to Mirror Move it would be a completely different case. Sand Rush Excadrill just killed something with Earthquake and is threatening to sweep your team? Priority Mirror Move to the rescue. Terrakion looking too threatening and is too healthy to go down to Brave Bird? Mirror Move saves the day. Kyurem-B got a kill with Outrage but is too healthy to die to Brave Bird. You get the point...

 

[Hidious]

Another problem with me first is that dragons usually have something better against you anyway. For example, garchomp has stone edge. Lots of dragon users will outspeed you with a dd or scarf, so me first becomes useless. However, a choice band brave bird will always do good damage and may be able to finish off some of those dragons before they can do a lot of damage to your team. I guess if you know they are banded and locked into a dragon move it could be great, but it is still way too situational to take up a slot. An emergency WoW has much more practicality.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

I've found a bit of success using a support Talonflame set.

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Def / 128 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Tailwind

This thing looks pretty good man. Will-o-wisp plus brave bird can basically do something productive to anything, although heatran (as always) makes this set extra sad. How often do you find yourself using tailwind?

 

[RockStarFish]

This thing looks pretty good man. Will-o-wisp plus brave bird can basically do something productive to anything, although heatran (as always) makes this set extra sad. How often do you find yourself using tailwind?

In the current team I'm using, Talonflame gets a lot of use setting Tailwind so a Choice Band Crawdaunt can soften up the opponent's team for a late-game clean. Even though Crawdaunt only get two turns per Tailwind to let loose, it's got enough power to get at least one KO. They're both backed up by an Excadrill who keeps the field clear of hazards for Talonflame, and has fantastic defensive synergy with Talonflame and Crawdaunt.

Talonflame also makes a good lead, since it can put a lot of pressure on common leads via threat of Flare Blitz (Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine) and U-turn breaks Focus Sashes and nabs a free switch against common Sash leads (Smeargle, Deoxys-S/D, Galvantula). And leading means one less time that Stealth Rock can screw it over.

 

[meteor64]

Why would any competent Gliscor player use Ice Fang against Talonflame? Toxic, Knock Off, or just Roost stalling it until it dies from recoil are way better options. Follow Me would be useful against Pokemon that don't fear Talonflame's other three moves and want to hit Talonflame with a move that hurts them too. Which are those Pokemon, from a quick check i did in the usage statistics for the top 50 common Pokemon in PokeBank? None. Which means that Me First is 100% useless unless i am missing something.

Now if Talonflame had access to Mirror Move it would be a completely different case. Sand Rush Excadrill just killed something with Earthquake and is threatening to sweep your team? Priority Mirror Move to the rescue. Terrakion looking too threatening and is too healthy to go down to Brave Bird? Mirror Move saves the day. Kyurem-B got a kill with Outrage but is too healthy to die to Brave Bird. You get the point...

Hey, I'm not the one using the Gliscor, ask them. At any rate, I never alluded to Me First being anything particularly useful, but that 4th slot really is filler. I was just toying around.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

How good is Lagging Tail/Full Incense Talonflame with Fly? It would get priority on the first turn but strike last on the second, so it would be invincible. Well, unless the opponent has priority or Thunder, which is everywhere these days, but I have no competitive experience so I can't tell whether that is completely crippling or something that your teammates can work around. Well, I know for one thing that Azumarill can 2HKO even a 252/252 Relaxed Talonflame with Aqua Jet, and even if you have Quick Guard and spam it against a Choice Banded one, it can just switch out. Well, if this is even a viable strategy it would probably be best with two layers of Toxic Spikes.

 

[Punchshroom]

How good is Lagging Tail/Full Incense Talonflame with Fly? It would get priority on the first turn but strike last on the second, so it would be invincible. Well, unless the opponent has priority or Thunder, which is everywhere these days, but I have no competitive experience so I can't tell whether that is completely crippling or something that your teammates can work around. Well, I know for one thing that Azumarill can 2HKO even a 252/252 Relaxed Talonflame with Aqua Jet, and even if you have Quick Guard and spam it against a Choice Banded one, it can just switch out. Well, if this is even a viable strategy it would probably be best with two layers of Toxic Spikes.

Has this been proven? I was under the assumption that both turns of Gale Wings Fly have priority, which is unlike that of DiveCats (Prankster Assist -> Fly goes first, 2nd turn unPrankstered Fly follows regular priority modifiers like Quick Claw or Full Incense).

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Has this been proven? I was under the assumption that both turns of Gale Wings Fly have priority, which is unlike that of DiveCats (Prankster Assist -> Fly goes first, 2nd turn unPrankstered Fly follows regular priority modifiers like Quick Claw or Full Incense).

Well, you're right, it turns out they are. Never mind.

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

I'm not sure if this is entirely relevant or not, but an Adamant Talonflame needs 164 Speed EV's to outspeed Max Speed Jolly Mega-Kangaskhan, and can thus avoid Sucker Punch with priority Brave Bird/Acrobatics.

 

[Uvood]

I'm not sure if this is entirely relevant or not, but an Adamant Talonflame needs 164 Speed EV's to outspeed Max Speed Jolly Mega-Kangaskhan, and can thus avoid Sucker Punch with priority Brave Bird/Acrobatics.

When you run adamant (which imo, is the best nature, since you have to get out as much as possible from that weak 81 base attack) 164 speed is essential. If you are running less, you risk a gamble with Kanga, and that is too much of a risk considering how good it is. The only other benchmark worth something is 208, which hits 340, and allows you too outspeed and kill any variant of Mega Pinsir, ensuring that as long as Talon is alive, there will never be a Pinsir sweep.

 

[Flamebot]

I'm really liking this set I know iknow no Sword dance but Talonflame is a better revenge killer than a set up sweeper (IMO)

Talonflame@Preferred item
Ability:Gale wings
124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe or 252 atk /252 Spe/ 4 hp
Nature: Adamant

Brave bird/Acrobatics
U-turn
Flareblitz
Roost

This set is based purely on revenge killing. Brave bird/Acrobatics both have priority so if you are not flying gem stick with Brave bird. Talonflame outspeeds ALOT of things, this allows U-turning to save him more than if he had a lesser Bst speed. U-turn is mainly used to switch out on things like Ttar and Bulky water types that can take a BB because as I said before I think Talonflame is a better Revenge killer.
Flareblitz is ofcourse used for Pokemon that resist Brave bird and/or pokemon weak to fire.
Now, I know since I'm focusing purely on Revenge killing with Talonflame it's wierd to run roost (So of), but Honestly Talonflame can still sweep, and counters alot of things so sometimes hes still staying in even after a revenge kill, so thisallows Iit to heal off recoil damage.

I know this set isn't the greatest, but it works very well for me.Sorry if anyone has mentioned this set yet.

 

[elnimio]

I hate this asshole pokemon. If you don't have a specific counter to it on your team, you're always gonna get destroyed by it. I'm running both a Choice Band Stone Edge user AND a Rotom-W in hopes of stopping it. To be honest, this guy is way more overpowered than Kangaskhan IMO.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

All you need is rotom-w. Mkanga requires at the very least 2 pokemon

 

[mizore_s]

I hate this asshole pokemon. If you don't have a specific counter to it on your team, you're always gonna get destroyed by it. I'm running both a Choice Band Stone Edge user AND a Rotom-W in hopes of stopping it. To be honest, this guy is way more overpowered than Kangaskhan IMO.

Almost every Rock type in the game can tank a hit and OHKO back. Rhyperior is one of the best choices, and he also threats another popular VI Gen Pokemon, Aegislash (physical variants). Take a look:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 93-111 (25 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 93-111 (25 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 75-88 (17.2 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO

 

[The Great Gastly]

I've actually gone outside the box a bit and have been using Me First. Probably not as useful as Will-o-Wisp, but Ice Fanging a Gliscor and Dragon Tailing a Goodra have been priceless. Probably not as good on a Band set as it would be on others though.

I've been running Me First as well, it is highly situational, but so are any other moves you may run in that last slot!

Nice to see a fellow player who thinks like I do. :]

 

[colton815]

i dont see why gale wings is at all necessary on a pokemon that can reach a speed of 351 with even a neutral nature. heres the set i would use.

ability: flame body
item: life orb
nature: adamant
ev spread: 252 atk/252 speed/ 4hp

moveset:
swords dance
brave bird
flare blitz
roost

 

[thunderant]

i dont see why gale wings is at all necessary on a pokemon that can reach a speed of 351 with even a neutral nature. heres the set i would use.

ability: flame body
item: life orb
nature: adamant
ev spread: 252 atk/252 speed/ 4hp

moveset:
swords dance
brave bird
flare blitz
roost

Gale wings is necessary to outspeed scarf Pokemon

 

[Tressed]

i dont see why gale wings is at all necessary on a pokemon that can reach a speed of 351 with even a neutral nature. heres the set i would use.

ability: flame body
item: life orb
nature: adamant
ev spread: 252 atk/252 speed/ 4hp

moveset:
swords dance
brave bird
flare blitz
roost

My question is why you wouldn't want Gale Wings on any Flying type Pokemon. EV Talonflame to outrun what you need to hit with Flare Blitz or priority users you want to beat with Brave Bird and put the remaining EVs into bulk. Flame Body isn't that good, especially if you aren't running any bulk.

 

[TheMohZone]

i dont see why gale wings is at all necessary on a pokemon that can reach a speed of 351 with even a neutral nature. heres the set i would use.

ability: flame body
item: life orb
nature: adamant
ev spread: 252 atk/252 speed/ 4hp

moveset:
swords dance
brave bird
flare blitz
roost

you sound like the people who thought that Gale Wings was pointless at the very start of the gen when we found it. those same people though MegaGengar was balanced, MegaKangaskhan would suck and MegaCharizardY was completely outclassed by MegaCharizardX.

those people now dine exclusively on a diet of words.

The whole reason Talonflame is the Metagame runner it is is because of Gale Wings. with this ability, your Guaranteed to go first with alot of moves, obviously, so you only need a few Speed EVS and can invest in bulk. cause not only is Talonflame not powerful without a boost =, its also frail without some Bulk and priority Roost.

 

[Talpr0ne]

i dont see why gale wings is at all necessary on a pokemon that can reach a speed of 351 with even a neutral nature. heres the set i would use.

ability: flame body
item: life orb
nature: adamant
ev spread: 252 atk/252 speed/ 4hp

moveset:
swords dance
brave bird
flare blitz
roost

Gale Wings is needed for revengekilling Scarf Pokémon such as Genesect, or setup sweepers focused on speed, such as Volcarona or Diggersby. Plus Flame Body is worthless because most moves that target Talonflame(Stone Edge, Thunderbolt, Hydro Pump) don't make contact.

 

[Tressed]

Talonflame doesn't really need speed because of gale wings, so I'd give it just enough speed to outspeed jolly excadrill, because flare blitz ohko's it and you don't want to get killed by rock slide.

Imo you want at least enough to outrun Mega Pinsir, which also lets you beat Mega Kanga, as both of their priorities will wreck you otherwise.