Tapu Fini Discussion

Its best set will probably be a fast support stall breaker with defog since it has no recovery :/



Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt
- Moon Blast/Scald
- Defog
 
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IcyMan28 said:
There may even be a role for Nature's Madness + Brine shenanigans.
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This is actually what I came in to ask about. What do you guys think of Tapu Fini as a Wall Breaker? Its immune to Toxic and other status that walls typically carry, can prevent opponents from Resting, and Guardian of Alola + (unresisted) Brine is pretty much a guaranteed 2 hit KO in most instances, right? Then you can fill her remaining move slots with coverage (like Ice Beam for resisting Grass and Dragons) or support.
 
If it ONLY had reliable recovery this thing would have been pretty good setting up Calm Minds. It's still a good Poke courtesy of it's nice bulk, solid defensive typing and fantastic ability. One of the better guardians.
 
You know, its actually possible to combo Nature's Madness with Brine. Brine deals double damage to any pokemon 50% or below, and Madness puts them right at that margin at best. Only ones who can avoid the Brine follow up would be pokemon with Leftovers, faster recovery mons, or Water absorbers/ Storm Drainers.
 
Count Bleck said:
You know, its actually possible to combo Nature's Madness with Brine. Brine deals double damage to any pokemon 50% or below, and Madness puts them right at that margin at best. Only ones who can avoid the Brine follow up would be pokemon with Leftovers, faster recovery mons, or Water absorbers/ Storm Drainers.
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Doesn't almost every 'Mon run odd HP? That would leave them with 51% from full, unless I'm blatantly missing something :( It might not always be relevant due to hazards and what not, but it is definitely something to keep in mind, I would think.
 
Pretty excited for this one, the typing is just so amazing.
I can see it thriving on balance teams as a pretty solid check to waters, darks and dragons in general adding in some nice utility with defog.
Do anybody knows what would activate first between the poison from Toxic spikes and the Terrain? It wont make or break it but I think it's pretty important.

Also, I think that with the burn damage nerf (1/8 to 1/16 dmg) running surf / pump / brine won't be that much of an issue.

Offensive sets will probably be outclassed by Primarina who actually packs a decent spatk.
 
Valiant Scizor said:
Doesn't almost every 'Mon run odd HP? That would leave them with 51% from full, unless I'm blatantly missing something :( It might not always be relevant due to hazards and what not, but it is definitely something to keep in mind, I would think.
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Another reason to use the Tapu Z-Crystal? Maybe?

I am looking forward to pairing Tapu Fini with Zygarde in Doubles. They cover each other fairly well. Well, except for the dampening of Zygarde's Dragon moves, but I rarely run dragon moves on a doubles Zygarde in Showdown anyway.
 
Man, it's such a shame this thing lacks Recover. Then I'd pretty much go to town with a mono attacking set (Calm Mind | Recover | Refresh / Taunt | Surf or Moonblast), or just running any defensive set at all. So I guess like with Heatran, this thing will require a little Wish babying or careful switching and planning if you're not running that at all. Not being able to burn or inflict Toxic immediately (making Toxic a waste of a lot) is pretty damn stupid too.

That said, it's pretty decent with what it's got. Not a total immediate powerhouse like the other three Tapus, but its main use lies in its decent speed (compared to Heatran and Clefable and other traditionally bulky mons), fantastic typing, great bulk, and limited but good movepool. On top of my head, fini can probably run an offensive CM set ala FastCune (with something like Leftovers or Wacan Berry), a fast Taunt set ala stallbreaker Heatran (w/ Life Orb or Leftovers), or just play a super defensive Defog/Taunt pivot.

toshimelonhead said:
Taunt + Haze + Misty Terrain + Nature's Madness is going to be great to help against Baton Pass chains.
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If history repeats itself (especially if some fuck manages to find a way to make Eevee work lmao), traditional Baton Pass chains won't last that long and, and meanwhile having three of those moves is awfully super specific.
 
Kinda like Heatran in the "great defensive typing with no reliable recovery" and thus the Max HP/Max Speed set with Defog/Taunt will be pretty good. Nature's Madness is cool on that set, but then you have to give up either water coverage that's not Scald (herp derp Misty Terrain why) or Moonblast, and those are both good STAB, so dunno if it's worth it?
 
I imagine something like this will be standard

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Speed
Timid
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Protect
- Hydro Pump / Taunt

Utility. Can clear hazards and hit back hard enough to be worth anything, thanks to misty terrain. Protect + Leftovers + status immunity should suffice for sustain. Last slot is anti-set-up-bait. Taunt is going to be a bit better for putting a thorn into the side of opposing defensive Pokemon that seek to take advantage, while Hydro Pump can blast some key fairy resists that might want to use you to set up. After choosing Taunt one could choose to forgo sustain for Nature's Madness. It and taunt together should be able to dismantle pretty much any wall, but I only see it being of value against full stall.

But, also - because of how strong misty terrain is, I think a specs set is very viable. In fact, it could be better than utility/stall breaking.

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
252 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid
- Moonblast
- Hydro Pump
- HP fire
- Defog

Again, the 1.5x boost to Moonblast makes this much stronger than what 95 SpA would normally be. Much more like 150 SpA.
 
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Ash Borer said:
I imagine something like this will be standard

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Speed
Calm
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Protect
- Hydro Pump / Taunt

Special wall that can clear hazards and hit back hard enough to be worth anything, thanks to misty terrain. Protect + Leftovers + status immunity should suffice for sustain. Last slot is anti-set-up-bait. Taunt is going to be a bit better for putting a thorn into the side of opposing defensive Pokemon that seek to take advantage, while Hydro Pump can blast some key fairy resists that might want to use you to set up. After choosing Taunt one could choose to forgo sustain for Nature's Madness. It and taunt together should be able to dismantle pretty much any wall, but I only see it being of value against full stall.

But, also - because of how strong misty terrain is, I think a specs set is very viable. In fact, it could be better than utility/stall breaking.

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
252 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid
- Moonblast
- Hydro Pump
- HP fire
- Defog

Again, the 1.5x boost to Moonblast makes this much stronger than what 95 SpA would normally be. Much more like 150 SpA.
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In your first set, I'd use a Timid Nature instead of a Calm one (it also seems like a total waste to invest so mush in Speed and nothing in SpDef to give it a Calm Nature), Taunt over Protect (yes, Protect would give you an additional turn of Leftovers, but it would also waste a turn of Misty Terrain), with Nature's Madness and Brine/Surf for attacking moves.

As for the Specs set, Misty Terrain doesn't actually boost Fairy-type moves, so it's completely outclassed by other mons like Keldeo, Latios, etc.
 
GnralLao said:
As for the Specs set, Misty Terrain doesn't actually boost Fairy-type moves, so it's completely outclassed by other mons like Keldeo, Latios, etc.
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wait, what? All of the other terrain moves give a boon to a certain attacking type? I thought that was a change in gen VII?

Anyways, wasting turns of misty terrain is irrelevant. You're not going to want to stay in for many turns at all, the opponent will switch in a counter. The idea is to a buy a turn or two, and keep yourself healthy, then switch out. Also why the hell would you ever run Brine, that move has been worthless for 3 generations.
 
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Ash Borer said:
wait, what? All of the other terrain moves give a boon to a certain attacking type? Is it water that misty terrain boosts perhaps?
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Nnnnope, that's why everybody's a little down about Fini. It only blocks status (which is somewhat counterproductive) and reduces Dragon moves, that's it.
 
Ash Borer said:
wait, what? All of the other terrain moves give a boon to a certain attacking type? I thought that was a change in gen VII?

Anyways, wasting turns of misty terrain is irrelevant. You're not going to want to stay in for many turns at all, the opponent will switch in a counter. The idea is to a buy a turn or two, and keep yourself healthy, then switch out. Also why the hell would you ever run Brine, that move has been worthless for 3 generations.
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Nature's Madness brings the opposing mon below half of its max HP (that is, with a little prior damage) and Brine hits for double power. It's probably gimmicky though, so Surf/Moonblast are probably better options.
 
Nature's Madness + Taunt is a nice combo but it seems a shame to invest heavily in speed when it has such good defenses. I think I'd rather go for a defense/special defense boosting nature and just run a little speed to hit a common benchmark.
 
Tapu Fini seems to me an upgraded version of Cresselia, but with some perks over it. Fairy/Water typing is a good thing to have alongside Moonblast and Misty Terrain is good to avoid status. The loss of Levitate is huge, but you have Defog on a pokemon not weak to SR and resistant to Knock Off. I can see well:
(1) a CM set with little-to-nothing Spe investment
(2) a Scarf set with a powerful Moonblast and a huge Spe investment
(3) many support sets (with Taunt, Screens and so on)

Sorry Cresselia, your time in OU ends here with Tapu Fini. =(
 
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The defensive one with decent Special Attack and okay Speed.

Since Nature's Madness removes 50% of the target's current HP I'm going to consider it a utility, a move for when Koko doesn't have something else that can seriously hurt its opponent (I wouldn't be surprised if many sets exclude it). We'll start with utilities getting Heal Pulse, Mean Look, Soak, Defog, Aqua Ring, Calm Mind, Taunt, Protect, dual screens, and Substitute. For attack it has a choice of STABs and some coverage with Ice Beam/Blizzard and Shadow Ball.

Fini has mostly what it needs to do its job (better recovery would have been nice).
 
mew-2Chainz said:
Cresselia was never OU though(?)
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Cresselia in ORAS was between C- and D rank (now D rank). It is a low tier monster, but marginally viable despite the Knock Off weakness and the vulnerability to Toxic. Tapu Fini fixes these problems with a better typing and a sort of Safeguard in the form of the Terrain.
 
After some brainstorming, I think Scald is not completely useless on Tapu Fini after all - it can be used to "counter" Tapu Bulu. As a Grass type that replaces Misty Terrain with a terrain that boosts Grass moves, Tapu Bulu seems like a perfect Tapu Fini check. However, by setting Grassy Terrain, Tapu Bulu removes Misty Terrain and thus becomes susceptible to status. If it gets hit by Scald on the switch-in there is the possibility of getting a burn and having its big physical attack stat halved (the burn damage itself is not a big deal due to Grassy Terrain plus possible leftovers).

And even under Misty Terrain, Scald can still burn Pokémon that do not touch the ground and do not care about Moonblast, like Skarmory.
 
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