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Team Ethics

You know what'd be a fun experiment? Start with a team (say, the first in the RMTs or something. Doesn't matter how it's chosen). Then, every game you lose, copy your opponent's team (to the best of your ability). See how high you get on the ladder.

Or, another way, just copy your opponent's team for the next battle.
 
Yeah, I agree with what other people have said here. Copying another person's team isn't unethical. However, what is unethical is copying a team straight out of the archive or RMT (I'm talking same movesets and everything, not just the same 6 pokemon), and then claiming it as your own when someone calls you out on it. That's like taking a recipe from a cookbook and claiming it as your own. While you wouldn't get in trouble for it here, it would certainly be looked down upon, at least IMO.
 
I can see another way in which it might be unethical, althought it doesn't really fill the "usage" criteria. Posting a team that someone else posted as an RMT has been deemed unacceptable on Serebii, and I imagine it would apply here as well. Why someone would do that is beyond me, but if someone was desperate for respect or something, they might stoop that low.
 
it's "unacceptable" because it's redundant, and there really is no purpose of doing it, not so much because it is considered unethical
 
Using another person's team to learn from it should not be viewed as something bad. We all learn how to make a Pokemon Team and playing with them differently, and using other people's team to better understand how team synergy work is one example. As already been mentioned by other people, the biggest "no-no" in ethics would be claiming someone else's work as your own. You should thrive on learning how to improve your skill rather than stealing as you will never start to develop.
 
LonelyNess said:
It's actually a common misconception I think that you have to learn yourself through playing with terrible teams how to make good ones. Quite the opposite in fact, playing with tried and true teams is actually more benificial to learning how to make your own teams because they already have the necessary synergy built in.

There are two variables when learning how to play Pokemon, prebattle teambuilding, and in battle strategy. When you take out one of those variables by using a team you KNOW is good, then you can begin to learn a hell of a lot faster. It's what I and a majority of tutors do with their tutees to help them learn the ropes of the game. Not only that, but some strategies may look really good on paper but be terrible in practice. When you have a team ready made for you, you can learn through practice what about the team is good, rather than always having to theorymon your way to a team.

I guess what I'm trying to say is using other people's teams can be a very helpful learning device for people struggling with the game.
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This.

I played OU for months using teams I came up with. And while I feel I did very well considering how subpar my team was, I didn't really show any sign of improvement in the team building aspect. Then I decided I wanted to get into UU and I used a team I saw posted on here. I (relative to my skill level) shot up in win percentage and finally started to get a grasp on what makes a team good. And like LonelyNess said, you can't really learn what makes a team good until you use a good team. I've since made tons of changes to the team I copied and now I feel like I may now be learning how to make a good team of my own. (Now I just need to work on coming up with EV spreads. >_< )
 
In my opinion? It only comes down to if you think you would feel "guilty" or something, and if you care what a select few people would think.

Personally, I say do what you want, and have no regrets.
 
Eh, even if you don't specifically "copy" a team, you probably are anyway. There's a large amount of players out there, along with a set number of Pokemon that are commonly used, it's possible you could have the same team as someone else out there. So technically you shouldn't feel guilty, unless you copied someone just to spite or better them. Besides, its not really the team that makes the trainer better, its how you use said team. I could use the same team as the top ranked trainer in the world. But if I lack the experience and knowledge to use it then it's not gonna do me any good.
 
For learning, sure its fine. Preferably with permission. I wish i had someone make me a team when i was starting up.
For laddering etc it is totally unregulated and unregulatable (if that is a word). So really it comes down to whatever is ok by yourself; for me i could never do it, id just be too ashamed.
 
I will admit to testing out teams that I have seen in a RMT or even asking someone if they would share a team with me that they used against me or that I saw in a warstory because I like the team and I wanted to try it out for myself. If the person says that they don't want to give you the team then it is no big deal and you move on. If they let you try it out you have to be very good at giving credit to the person who made the team if and when someone asks you.

Trying out someone else's team can help you learn different playstyles let you try a concept that you thought was cool but would never actually build a team around yourself. The important part of all of this is that in the end you really should just learn from someone elses team and then try and do something better yourself. Like someone said earlier, copying another top team and then using it to ladder to the top spot is kind of like cheating. All you would be doing is showing that you know how to battle and you would be getting credit for someone elses hard work.
 
I would say no, however, it seems like it would not be a team personal to you. Would it not be more satisfying to win with a team you compiled?
 
blaarg8891 said:
I would say no, however, it seems like it would not be a team personal to you. Would it not be more satisfying to win with a team you compiled?
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I don't use other's teams for satisfaction and personal pleasure, I (and most likely others) use other's team to learn the metagame and learn how to make our own teams.
 
Nothing I can say will say something better than every other post, but imo using or as many people will accuse you of 'stealing' a team, is not bad but is for all reasons already mentioned, just good to get used to the tier or find your favorites. I have been harassed many times in every tier by people accusing me of using archived teams, when in fact I have had no success without first using one. There is nothing "original" about using your own team, if that is the argument. You might be using a Standard set, or a set you have seen, or a compilation of six Pokes that has been used before. At this point in the metagame, almost every combination of Pokemon has been used before, at least the common ones in each tier respectively. So, we all technically "copy", but others think it is somehow a sin to use someone else's team, when in fact there is a word for this: playtesting. Duh. So, (1) using other people's teams is not bad, EVER, and (2) people accusing these people of stealing are morons, because the only reason for why it might be bad is to name it as your own.

My personal example of this what I started UU off when Honchkrow and Gallade were still in the tier (not too far off), and I made a team extremely similar to the team xianglongfa has archived. Coincidence or did I steal it? It was by happy chance that I thought: Oh, Honchkrow is dangerous, Raikou is dangerous, Rhyperior is dangerous, and so on and so forth. I put it together, and yet somehow it belongs to the guy with the archived team. There were distinct differences obviously in EV's, sets, etc. but the point is, there really is nothing wrong with playtesting a team, and if you happen to notice: "hey, he is using LR's team" or whatever, there is nothing bad about that, as if they beat you, the team is simply better than yours or they are a better player themselves.
 
DarkCyberElf said:
They are a better player themselves.
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I do agree with the fact that when you copy a team of someone thats number 1 on the leaderboard, you don't automatically achieve the same.

It's not the team you're using, it's how you use it!​

There are almost 500 pokémon, so the chance that you have the exact same team with the exact same moveset as someone else is relatively small. Even with those pokémon like Scizor that virtually anyone uses.
 
I think it is totally okay usually, unless you take credit for it if you did steal it.

I find it more satisfying to make my own teams though.
 
Hmm, I sometimes do that since most of my teams are not well thought or are just gimmicks or made for fun.

Usually I pick an already made team which gets my attention in a way or other.

Then, I play a couple of matches with it to test it around and edit some stuff out to make it go along with my playstyle. Sometimes I even completely remade a Team...
 
Many people use teams in the RMT setion when they first start playing. I never did, but i thnk it has alot to do whether you find the Shoddy server first or the forums first. But i never could use someone else's team, and after a while you shouldn't REALLY need to.
 
Well my current ladder team was one I was working on for a while. I sussed out my not entirely standard Swampert lead, then I decided I wanted to try out Scizor and Lucario, and that they'd work well as dual revenge killers. I had an almost entirely standard Lucario, but wasn't sure how to EV Scizor. Then I had TTar to trap and Latias to help it sponge special hits.

At this stage I saw Jibaku had a RMT that had these five Pokemon so I used his team to tweak my Scizor EVs and copied Rotom for the 6th slot. It was a perfect fit, covering my 3 fighting weaks, giving me another great revenge killer and opens up for Lucario sweeps.

In the end my team was rather similar to Jibaku's, sure I was using entirely my own Swampert, had tweaked EVs of other Pokemon to suit me better and so forth, but in the end the teams were pretty similar, so it'd probably appear I copied outright, when the reality was someone else had just done what I was trying to to already, so why be wrong for the sake of being different?
 
I think copying teams in general is fine if the team's been posted as a RMT or just shared with friends. However, if you go stalking someone just to copy the team, that seems a bit silly. Anything else imo is fair enough.
 
I guess I don't find it unethical as much as I think it gets you nowhere. For example, I may not be the best team builder out there, but I'm trying to learn. I'm not going to do that by copying other teams, so it does me absolutely no good and likely hurts me in the end when I discover that the team I decided to steal has difficulty with certain other teams, then I have no experience with tweaking teams, so I'm back to square one. Hence, I think it's kind of dumb to do, but I'm not against it because it'll just bite you in the ass someday.
 
I have always created my own teams. I think you develop your own style much more efficiently if you do things the way you want. Taking other peoples' teams doesn't really give you the same satisfaction when you win. Shortcuts won't help you here.

It is only beneficial if you're doing it to get a basic understanding of Pokemon, especially if you've never battled before. However, I still think it'd give you a greater experience if you do things on your own from the get-go (after reading appropriate articles detailing the complexity of competitive battle of course.)

It's not unethical, but I certainly think it's far less rewarding, and to certain degree, completely pointless as it takes some of the fun out of the game (which is the point of this after all.)
 
Using a recipe book to cook dosen't mean you'll be enjoying your meal.

But at the same time, you can learn to cook by copying those recipes. Afterwards, you start doing it on your own.

Metaphors are cheesy, and I pretty much repeated what's been said.

It's all a matter of presonal values.
 
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