Team Shanoa - Stall Team ranked #6 (UU)

[pi face]

This is a team that I’ve been working on since when the new OU list was presented.
I’ve always been found of defensive teams, and when new UU came I was really excited to try all those new walls.

With the final version of the team, playing yesterday, I achived the 6th place on the ladder (not that this is important, but records attracts attention so… :\)

Before I present it, keep in mind that I wanted all kinds of spikes (most stall teams only opt for one kind, mainly TS – so I wanted to have an advantage over them), a wisher OR cleric (so I could abuse Rest), a spin blocker and a resist to all kinds of attack (this last one wasn’t extremely necessary, depending of the type I was weak against, of course). And this is how I got here…


TEAM SHANOA

Ps. The team is called like this because the nicknames are all based around the last Castlevania game for DS, Order of Ecclesia, which Shanoa is the main character. An awesome game by the way.

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash *** Acerbatus
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
- Spikes

Leading the team is Froslass, and she is the first part of all my passive damage. Looking at all the possible spikers in new UU, one of those I thought was okay to use: Froslass, Roserade, Cloyster or Omastar.
Roserade can be very bulky on the special side, Cloyster is also a spinner and Omastar was there just in case (his poor typing was really a let down).

In the end I chose the suicide Froslass anyway, since as you can see, I already have an Toxic Spiker absorber in Nidoqueen, and because 2 layers of spikes right of the bat is EXTREMELY useful against an offensive team. So Froslass it is.

I chose 2 attacks instead of one + Taunt because, since I lack a spiner, I decided that beating opposing lead Froslass is extremely handy.

Acerbatus: Glyph that calls forth the power of spite (spite: a malicious desire to harm, annoy, frustrate, or humiliate another person);
And that is exactly what Froslass does, annoy people with spikes and frustrate with Destiny Bond mindgames.

Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers *** Queen of Hearts
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Roar
- Rest

Next comes Nidoqueen, the second part of my residual damage, physical wall, Toxic Spike absorber, phazer, and physical wall all in one! Nidoqueen is really useful and I never thought that she would perform as good as she does.

Looking at all the Toxic Spikers, I’d want one that can absorb opposing Toxic Spikes itself. Drapion, Nidoqueen and Roserade were all the non-sucky ones. In the end, it was between Nidoqueen and Drapion, since both can also Roar/WW. I finaly chose Nidoqueen because, looking back at my team, I didn’t have any electric resistance (and the Cro Raikou set could cause a lot of punishment), so Nidoqueen it was.

The Evs allow me to take high physical punishment and counter all the fighting types in the tier. The moveset is kinda obvious – Earthquake for STAB and to hit Raikou/Blaziken/Gallade and the like hard, Toxic Spikes to stall, Roar to phaze. Rest was chosen to recover health and because of my next pokemon, as you’ll see.

Queen of Hearts: Defensive gear that reduces “heart consumption” by half.
Think of heart consumption as the opposing pokemon health – TS + Roar cut the job I have to do. And Nidoqueen is a physical defensive beast!

Miltank (F) @ Leftovers *** Rue
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP/36 Atk/220 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Return
- Stealth Rock
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell

God, Miltank is so sturdy - and she’s the final part of my passive damage, laying down Stealth Rock.
Remember when I said I wanted a Wisher or a Cleric? Yeah, in the end I’ve opted by Miltank and its Heal Bell, not only because she is one of my favorites (don’t you love this cow?) but also because she can take all kinds of neutral/unboosted physical hits.

There wasn’t any specific poke I wanted here – But this slot was really between Chansey and Miltank, as both can Stealth Rock, Heal Bell or Wish in the case of Chansey. I’ve opted by Miltank in the final stages of the team because I found a special defensive duo that could take almost all kinds of special hits. And Miltank can actually kill things with Return.
Speaking of which, this moveset is also pretty self-explanatory: Return since I don’t need paralysis, SR for passive damage, Milk Drink to never die and Heal Bell for team support.
I also chose Scrappy since I already have an excellent Ice/Fire resist in other pokemon.

For the record, Heal Bell is an amazing move and even better than a Wisher in this team in my opinion. Against freeze hax, t-wave teams, toxic and all that stuff this helps a lot.

Rue: A medicinal herb. This is used in a quest for you to have acess to healing potions. And Miltank is used to heal the entire team.

Mismagius (F) @ Leftovers *** Umbra
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/104 Def/56 Spd/96 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split
- Perish Song

After all the work my other pokes have to get through to setup entry hazards, I’d need a spin blocker.
At first, Spiritomb immediately came to mind. The Crotomb set is great and all, but people found a way to get around him, and he doesn’t really counter Gallade with that set, not to mention I wouldn’t have an ground immunity which is extremely bad since it’s the most common attack in all the other tiers at least, and should be common here too…
So in the end, I chose Mismagius, and she is just as good in spin blocking in my opinion, and also has amazing immunities.

The evs can look kinda messy, but they worked for me so far… 56 Spe + Timid allow me to outspeed all base 80s: in other words, Medicham, Gallade and Blaziken. The first two I can just kill with Shadow Ball (I never saw a Shadow Sneak Gallade) and Mismagius can also finish off an weakened Blaziken if I have no more ways to play around him.
Max HP is for survivability and the rest were split into Def and Sdef so I could take hits from lings like Hitmontop and Claydol.

Now onto the moveset, which isn’t very standard… Shadow Ball is basic stab and for Claydol/Medicham/Gallade as mentioned earlier. Will-o-Wisp, even when I have TS, comes in handy when TS are not setup and for general physical attackers that are immune to it (Drapion, Registeel, Staraptor trying to get a free swich into SB etc).
Pain Split is for recovery and it isn’t as bad as people seems to talk about it, at least for Missy since she is kinda fast and can use it before getting hit.

Last, is Perish Song. I ran HP Fighing before, but it wasn’t useful in almost any way without CM to boost my attack… So I put another reliable move for stall teams, that can finish off that last poke CM Clefable, Curse Regirock, Curse Miltank and all that stuff that can get around Toxic.

Umbra: Glyph that commands the malice of the dead.
Well, Mismagius is a ghost.

Milotic (F) @ Leftovers *** Lorelai
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- HP Electric
- Toxic
- Recover

Milotic is awesome and is responsible for beating a lot of important threats. She is primary my special wall of sorts, but can take a lot of physical punishment too. Her amazing typing and reliable recovery move allow her to beat almost all fire and ice types with ease.

The Evs allow Milotic to never be 2HKOed by Adamant CB Flare Blitz Blaziken, and the rest was put into her amazing Sdef. For you to have an idea, Choice Specs neutral Espeon’s Psychic is barely a 3HKO.

Anyway… Surf is STAB and Ice Beam because… it hits Grass types and Altaria? I don’t really know, I put Ice Beam there just because. Considering HP Electric since Feraligatr can be a bitch, but I don’t know.
Recover is obvious healing, and Toxic for things immune to TS and Slowbro/king/other Milotic if I don’t have TS down yet.

HP Electric put to solve Sub Feraligatr problems, and it worked very well so far

Lorelai: Water nymph whose voice and beauty lure victims to a watery grave.

Registeel @ Leftovers *** Melio Scutum
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/100 Atk/156 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest

Last comes Registeel, and he is just as important as the other members. He was the last one a picked, and looking at my team, I had no Flying, Ghost and Dark resist. Registeel then came in covered all those things.

Since I already had Stealth Rock and Thunderwave would be useless and for nothing especificaly, I chose Curse. With it, I can try a sweep with all those residual damage, not to mention I beat Crotomb and CM Clefable one on one when necessary. And Mismagius.

I used to run Resttalk with only Iron Head as an attack, but Raikou proved to be a bitch to all of my team, so I added Earthquake > Sleep Talk and let Miltank do her job when necessary.
The attack Evs are kinda arbitrary. If someone has a better EV spread, please go ahead and say it.
Together with Milotic, Registeel cover almost all special attackers.

Melio Scutum: a superior shield glyph. Almost nothing can get past it.

Final thoughts:​

The team may not be perfect, but I like it to death. It’s hard to stall efficiently with all those powerhouses, but it’s possible if you play around them. Hope you enjoyed it, and can give me suggestions so I can improve it.

- Ps. I’m considering Cloyster > Froslass (Spikes, Rest, Rapid Spin, Ice Beam/Shard), since it can easily setup spikes on things like slowbro and milotic before I can Toxic them, and I at least could have a spiner. Thoughts?

 

[pi face]

THREAT LIST:

Abomasnow: usualy leads, I setup spikes and then try do break its subs with Ice Beam. Registeel kills him then. If It’s poisoned, this is a non-issue.

Ambipom: usualy a lead slower than my Froslass, which guarantee 1~2 layers of spikes minium, 3 if no Payback/Taunt. Otherwise, Registeel and Miltank.

Arcanine: Milotic, Miltank and Nidoqueen help if it’s all physical.

Azumarill: Milotic mainly. Miltank and Registeel can take Double-edge.

Blaziken: Choiced version I have to predict around with Nidoqueen/Mismagius and Milotic. Mixed is stopped completely by Milotic.

Charizard: Milotic stops all versions. Nidoqueen uses Roar on BD versions if SR isn’t around.

Crobat: usualy leads, I Ice Beam as they Taunt, then go to Registeel. Plot versions are more complicated, but I think Milotic can kill it, although I never saw one.

Entei: Milotic. Getting hit by all kinds of passive damage are also a problem to it.

Espeon: Not very common, but Registeel and Milotic mostly. Toxic Spikes are really bad for it.

Exeggutor: Never saw one, but Mismagius can survive a Solar Beam and Shadow Ball it back. Smart switching to wear it down with TS and LO damage are key.

Feraligtr: I have to Toxic it with Milotic if TS are not in field, and stall with Recover and Miltank’s Milk Drink. Spikes damage are very helpful here. HP Electric would be really helpful.

Floatzel: HP Electric would be VERY useful. Toxic Spikes + Spikes can be life savers if he has Taunt. Other than that, I guess Floatzel can be problematic, but I can play around it with Miltank too. The ones I saw were only Rain sweepers which were easier to stop.

Gallade: Nidoqueen if no Psycho Cut, Mismagius if no Shadow Sneak. Spikes + TS are key here also.

Honchkrow: Registeel, Miltank. Nidoqueen can take Superpower and Roar him to take more SR damage.

Houndoom: Milotic and I can just attack him so he doen’t setup.

Lickilicky: Misgagius WoWs it if it isn’t poisoned. Miltank and Registeel can kill it somewhat.

Ludicolo: This is a problem. Milotic can Toxic and then switch to Registeel which is only 3HKOed by LO Rain Surf, and stall it with Rest. Mismagius can take a hit and Shadow Ball/Pain Split. Yeah.

Magmortar: Milotic. He has the same problems as Entei.

Marowak: Mismagius mainly, Miltank outspeeds, and so does Milotic unless it is Jolly I think. If Froslass is alive, she can revenge too.

Medichan: Choice versions have to be played around with Nidoqueen/Mismagius/Registeel while passive damage also adds up. Other versions are slower than Mismagius.

Mesprit: Milotic and Registeel.

Mismagius: Registeel, Miltank does a lot with Return, I can play mindgames with Milotic between Surf and Toxic if she has no CMs. Nidoqueen survives Shadow Ball and can Roar.

Moltres: Milotic. Toxic can be healled by Miltank. Stealth Rock just says “sup”.

Pinsir: Passive damage just kills it alone. Choice versions have to be played around, but Mismagius just take it fine. Registeel can take a big hit and attack it back. Considering more speed on Mismagius to outspeed non-Scarf versions.

Porygon-2: Milotic, Registeel.

Raikou: Registeel, Nidoqueen can Roar it. Toxic Spikes.

Regice: Passive damage is awlful for him. Other than that, Registeel.

Regigigas: Registeel, Miltank somewhat, can be Roared away, Toxic Spikes helps.

Regirock: Registeel, Milotic.

Registeel: non-Rest versions will just die eventually, not to mention they like to come into Missy just to get WoW’d. Resting one I have to Roar away/kill with Registeel/Perish as last poke.

Roserade: Registeel stops this completely.

Sceptile: SubSeed is annoying only if I don’t have TS in field. Specs is stopped by Registeel.

Slaking: Mismagius, Registeel. Miltank can come into anything and Milk Drink as it is forced to switch/do nothing.

Slowbro: Toxic Milotic, Shadow Ball/Perish Missy.

Slowking: same as above.

Shaymin: Registeel stops Life Orb ones. SubSeed aren’t a problem with Toxic Spikes, otherwise they are really annoying, but I can outstall with Registeel.

Smeargle: Roar, mainly.

Spiritomb: Registeel wins one-on-one, I can Roar it or Perish if it is the last poke.
Staraptor:between Nidoqueen, Missy and Registeel it is stopped completely.

Tangrowth: Registeel, Nidoqueen’s Roar, Toxic (Spikes), Milotic’s Ice Beam can kill it if weakened. Yeah, this thing just sits there.

Torterra: Miltank is a life savior here. Life Orb Wood Hammer form Rock Polish Torterra can’t 2HKO, while I can Milk Drink as it kills itself alone with Toxic Spikes/Life Orb/Wood Hammer recoil.

Typhlosion: Milotic and the same problem as all the other fire-types

Umbreon: Mean Look ones are complicated. Depends on the situation. Curse ones I can Roar then Perish, or beat it in a Curse war with Registeel.

Ursaring: thank god this thing dies alone. This is the only time I regret getting rid of Hp Fighing on Missy. Anyway, the key is to not let it setup and play around while his own Poison kills it. Worked fine the only time I saw it.

Uxie: Registeel, Milotic.

Zangoose: Same as Ursaring. And Nidoqueen helps a lot here.

Claydol: Mismagius stops anything it wants to do. Milotic can kill it if it’s a little weakened.

Clefable: Registeel wins Curve vs. CM wars. If it has Encore, the battle will take a while… but I can Roar it out to make other pokes take passive damage. Perish Song finishes her if she is the last poke.

Rotom:Registeel mainly. If it’s the Resttalking one, Thunderbolt is barely a 3HKO on Milotic.

Hitmontop: Mismagius WoWs it and blocks spin. Nidoqueen also walls the technician one.

Froslass:usualy leads, I just Shadow Ball it. If not, Registeel and Milotic. Miltank can also take a hit.

Altaria:Milotic + Registeel

Hitmonlee: Nidoqueen + Mismagius

Ninetales:: Milotic can take a +2 Energy Ball. Other than that, residual damage and not let it setup.

Venusaur: Registeel for offensive versions, Froslass can Ice Beam it if it’s alive. Defensive ones are just annoying r_r

Chansey: Toxic Spikes, Miltank heals any attempt do status my team.

Magneton: It can’t even trap Registeel…

Rhydon: Milotic, Nidoqueen/Registeel and Mismagius for Choiced versions. Rock Polish ones get worn down the same way as Torterra.

So there you have it, all BLs, some NFEs and the top 10 of old UUs.

 

[Heysup]

I have faced this team at least 3 times, and won once. First to say, Toxic spikes are VERY broken in this new metagame, so dont be too confident yet.

The only thing i see is that you rely on milotic too much, and one mispredict, and there goes your wall. You may also want to watch out for Rampardos, as it OHKOS Milotic with an SD. Again, Toxic Spikes>All pokemon in general so its hard to fix a stall team >_<.

 

[Verystrait-42]

This team wrecks people. I do seem to have problems with SD drapion if nidoqueen is gone.

 

[Wyzra]

Very nicely built. I myself use three of these Pokemon in similar roles in my own stall team: Froslass, Nidoqueen and Missy, although the focus of our teams is very different. I'm just wondering how do you deal with enemy Resters?

 

[TVboyCanti]

HeySup, Tspikes are the easiest entry hazard to get rid of, in fact they're the only entry hazard your opponent can't prevent you from getting rid of. If the smogon community can't get SR banned, it definitely won't get Tspikes banned.

Back to the team rate, it looks good on paper, but in practice all it would take would be to lose one key defensive pokemon to open you up to a sweep. I'm a staunch believer that a good stall team in UU needs to have a Choice Scarfer with 90+ base speed as a back up plan to prevent sweeps.

I'm also surprised that you don't list Altaria as a threat. After a Dragon Dance, Jolly Altaria's Earthquake does 55.49% - 65.38% to your Registeel with a LO boost, while Outrage does 68.78% - 80.71% to Milotic. I'm not saying your team can't play around it, but it is a significant threat that should not be written off.

Sub/Salac Feraligatr will also give you trouble if they support it with Tspikes removal. Milotic can only deal 19.61% - 22.83%, not enough even to break Gatrs sub. Feraligatr's Return will do 57.36% - 67.51% your Milotic after just one Swords Dance. You might be able to stop it with Miltank, but if the Feraligatr user knows what they're doing, they'll Swords Dance while you break the sub, Swords Dance again while you deal 32.15% - 37.62 Return, and then destroy your Miltank with a +4 Waterfall. That's what I would do anyway.

Nice team though. Were you already on the leaderboard before the UU ladder was changed?

 

[panamaxis]

at the moment your team is gallade weak. Mismagius is not a counter due to SD and shadow sneak. For this reason I suggest adding spiritomb over mismagius. Perish song is great and all, but spiritomb is bulkier, has a better typing and gallade is everywhere so you really need a counter. Spiritomb actually can counter Gallade (i think) if you use shadow sneak. I suggest running, rest, sleep talk, shadow sneak, hp fighting. Otherwise pretty cool team.

 

[Verystrait-42]

Why don't you use Seismic toss > Return on Miltank?

 

[Heysup]

at the moment your team is gallade weak. Mismagius is not a counter due to SD and shadow sneak. For this reason I suggest adding spiritomb over mismagius. Perish song is great and all, but spiritomb is bulkier, has a better typing and gallade is everywhere so you really need a counter. Spiritomb actually can counter Gallade (i think) if you use shadow sneak. I suggest running, rest, sleep talk, shadow sneak, hp fighting. Otherwise pretty cool team.

I dont think its reliable enough with Restalk, id say the Status set is better. Especially considering the fact that if you let Gallade get off the Swords Dances with only getting HPfightings/rests, you could be in even bigger trouble. As well, Shadow Sneak makes Gallade faster than Spiritomb anyway, and he cant Attack with his other Stabs.

A pretty reliable counter could be Slowbro.

My reference to Toxic Spikes being broken, is in the current Metagame. Once certain Pokemon are Banned, more pokemon can become slightly more viable, such as Nidoking, and Toxicroak, allowing Offensive teams to not have to Sacrifice Offense to absorb spikes.

 

[pi face]

@HeYsUp

The only thing i see is that you rely on milotic too much, and one mispredict, and there goes your wall. You may also want to watch out for Rampardos, as it OHKOS Milotic with an SD.

Yeah, Milotic is very important. That's why I don't take too much risks with her. About Rampardos... yeah I forgot about him, but I'll keep that in mind. The good thing is that Mismagius outspeeds it and can finish it off.


@verystrait

This team wrecks people. I do seem to have problems with SD drapion if nidoqueen is gone.

Thanks! Well, to be honest I never saw an offensiv Drapion, but Miltank also can take a hit and Return it back. I'll keep that in mind, though.


@Wyrza

Very nicely built. I myself use three of these Pokemon in similar roles in my own stall team: Froslass, Nidoqueen and Missy, although the focus of our teams is very different. I'm just wondering how do you deal with enemy Resters?

thank you!
Well, enemy Resters I usualy Roar them with Nidoqueen if possible so they take passive damage to a point where I can kill them before Rest can do its thing. In the case of Regice for example, I just send Registeel in and Curse/attack it.
Otherwise, I try to kill all the other enemy pokes and Perish Song it.


@TVboyCanti

ack to the team rate, it looks good on paper, but in practice all it would take would be to lose one key defensive pokemon to open you up to a sweep. I'm a staunch believer that a good stall team in UU needs to have a Choice Scarfer with 90+ base speed as a back up plan to prevent sweeps.

yeah I agree with you... but it's hard to find anything to do this without compromissing the team denfesiveness. I saw your RMT a while ago and liked your Roserade lead... do you think she is enough of a revenge killer if I play her conservatively? Otherwise I don't know... I just try to analyse the opposing team and see what I can and what I can't sacrifice. Sugestions of some effective revenger ?_?

I'm also surprised that you don't list Altaria as a threat. After a Dragon Dance, Jolly Altaria's Earthquake does 55.49% - 65.38% to your Registeel with a LO boost, while Outrage does 68.78% - 80.71% to Milotic. I'm not saying your team can't play around it, but it is a significant threat that should not be written off.

The thing about Altaria is that it's extremely easy to lure an Outrage to Registeel. The only thing I think Altaria can setup also is Miltank using Roost and if Return doesn't do enough. I'll also keep that in mind though, as I didn't think +1 Outrage did that much r_r

Sub/Salac Feraligatr will also give you trouble if they support it with Tspikes removal. Milotic can only deal 19.61% - 22.83%, not enough even to break Gatrs sub. Feraligatr's Return will do 57.36% - 67.51% your Milotic after just one Swords Dance. You might be able to stop it with Miltank, but if the Feraligatr user knows what they're doing, they'll Swords Dance while you break the sub, Swords Dance again while you deal 32.15% - 37.62 Return, and then destroy your Miltank with a +4 Waterfall. That's what I would do anyway.

Yeah, as I mentioned on the threat list, Feraligatr can be scary, and for that reason alone I'm thinking of HP Electric > Ice Beam on Milotic. I can play mind games with Roar if he comes into Nidoqueen too... yeah, a problem pokemon. Sugestions? ):

Nice team though. Were you already on the leaderboard before the UU ladder was changed?

thank you! With this account, nope. I started playing with it when the ladder came to test other versions of this team until it is what it is now.


@panamaxis

at the moment your team is gallade weak. Mismagius is not a counter due to SD and shadow sneak. For this reason I suggest adding spiritomb over mismagius. Perish song is great and all, but spiritomb is bulkier, has a better typing and gallade is everywhere so you really need a counter. Spiritomb actually can counter Gallade (i think) if you use shadow sneak. I suggest running, rest, sleep talk, shadow sneak, hp fighting. Otherwise pretty cool team.

thanks! The thing about Spiritomb is that I'll have no Ground immunity... Gallade also doesn't run Psycho Cut AND Shadow Sneak together (which makes them completely wallable by Crotomb - which no one wants)... if it lacks Psycho Cut, Nidoqueen can EQ him. Of course I could lose a pokemon in the process but yeah... >_> I never saw a Shadow Sneak Gallade too tbh.

I'll try Spiritomb anyway, I'll never know if the no-ground weak will prejudice me a lot if I don't try, eh?

thanks for the rates people, keep them coming!


edit@last comments:
because Miltank actually can hurt things with Return: for example, it can 2HKO Mismagius and Raikou in my experience, not to mention she is able to break subs from things like Entei and so on.

 

[Heysup]

I forgot to add, i like cloyster>froslass because of origionality. It also completely counters Altaria, and helps with Feraligatr. Doesnt help with Gallade though...

 

[TVboyCanti]

@Roserade: With spikes and stealth rock down, she can be a good revenge killer if you manage to keep her alive while laying down spikes. Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb have exception coverage against the fast sweepers of UU and will be hitting hard for neutral damage. But if you are looking for Roserade to be your only revenge killer, I suggest you max out its special attack to ensure it is able to take out stuff like Gallade and +1 Raikou after they take entry damage and Life Orb Recoil.

@Feraligatr: unless this thing switches into Toxic spikes, I have not been able to beat Feraligatr outside of revenge killing with scarf houndoom. Feraligatr is a monster with the Water/Normal coverage that it couldn't manage in OU because of Salamence and Gyarados.

 

[Mrobinson587]

Hariyama, who you missed on your BL list, can come in on one layer of tspikes with guts and wreck your walls, even Registeel. Miltank and Milotic don't really stand a chance agaisnt stab CC.

Zangoose is a bigger threat than I think you are taking it for. Once they play their team to get Frosslass, and Mismagius out the way or weakend its basically GG. It can even run (and I suspect it will once it becomes more popular) start running Ice Punch over Shadow Claw or night slash just like big brother Lucario does in OU.

Quick feet Ursaring comes in on your toxic spikes with a life orb and sweeps as it can now outrun Mismagious(I think)

Clefable with Encore/Seismic toss/Thunder wave/Wish or softboiled stops you whole stall team. Magius and frosslass are the only things that can really battle this strategy and they both hate thunderwave. You better hope that its the last poke and that you still have perish song left, cause otherwise it's not going to go down without weaking most of your whole team.

Drapion comes in your spin blockers absorbs the spike.Choice band fucks your team after destiny bond is gone as it can switch in easily on Mismagious and pursuit it to death. It can also taunt, SD and sweep almost your entire team before being taken down.

How does frosslass handle Lopunny leads? While it encores or switcheroos a choice item on your spikes or ice beam, it agility passes to Usaring who takes out most of your team if not all between CC/Facade/Crucnch.

I personally don't like running 100% stall/defensive teams in general because once you play for the long run, critical hits will ruin you and taunters/trickers screw you up majorly as well as ML Umbreon and sleep talkers. Some surprise move on a poke will do you in as well.

One offensive poke at least maybe? Something that can clean up? :D

So you get 1/5 points for running a 100% pure defensive/stall teams that are lame, and still horribly weak to taunt and trickchoice. 5/5 for the Ecclasia refrences. Great game. And 4/5 props for your success on the ladder.

 

[Heysup]

It counters my team, thats all that counts right ^_^.

Froslass is the best Guaranteed spikes, but if you wanted to be cool and not use that lame lead, you could use smeargle, and have that sleep/tspikes/explosion/taunt with Focus sash/Choice Scarf(replace Taunt with trick)

 

[pi face]

Hariyama, who you missed on your BL list, can come in on one layer of tspikes with guts and wreck your walls, even Registeel. Miltank and Milotic don't really stand a chance agaisnt stab CC.
Yeah, I forgot him in the threat list. But what about Nidoqueen and Mismagius?

Zangoose is a bigger threat than I think you are taking it for. Once they play their team to get Frosslass, and Mismagius out the way or weakend its basically GG. It can even run (and I suspect it will once it becomes more popular) start running Ice Punch over Shadow Claw or night slash just like big brother Lucario does in OU.
yeah, I'm not an idiot - If a see a Zangoose, I try to hit him at all costs. He's that frail. Nidoqueen can take a hit from it.

Quick feet Ursaring comes in on your toxic spikes with a life orb and sweeps as it can now outrun Mismagious(I think)
between 2 layes of spikes, his own Toxic, and smart switching he dies alone. I just have to not let it setup - all my pokes can take an unboosted hit from him.

Clefable with Encore/Seismic toss/Thunder wave/Wish or softboiled stops you whole stall team. Magius and frosslass are the only things that can really battle this strategy and they both hate thunderwave. You better hope that its the last poke and that you still have perish song left, cause otherwise it's not going to go down without weaking most of your whole team.
You do realize that I have Heal Bell right, and is just a question of time until Encore runs out of PP. How on earth will Clefable kill a team full of pokemon with recovery moves using only Seismic Toss? I've faced a lot of Clefable and none were trouble - they just sit there and do nothing r_r

Drapion comes in your spin blockers absorbs the spike.Choice band fucks your team after destiny bond is gone as it can switch in easily on Mismagious and pursuit it to death. It can also taunt, SD and sweep almost your entire team before being taken down.
Ok, so your Drapion has Swords Dance, Pursuit, Taunt and is using a Choice Band? ._.
My Mismagius can WoW Drapion swich-ins that LOVES to come in everythime. If they don't have a Heal Beller, the burn is permanent. Nidoqueen and Registeel have EQ, Miltank has Return to kill it. All those can take a hit. As you can see it can't setup in anyone... even Milotic can hit its bad Sdef if it's an offensive one.

How does frosslass handle Lopunny leads? While it encores or switcheroos a choice item on your spikes or ice beam, it agility passes to Usaring who takes out most of your team if not all between CC/Facade/Crucnch.
Spike first turn, then Roar with Nidoqueen. I couldn't care less if it swicheroos Froslass or Encore it, I'll just Roar her later.

I personally don't like running 100% stall/defensive teams in general because once you play for the long run, critical hits will ruin you and taunters/trickers screw you up majorly as well as ML Umbreon and sleep talkers. Some surprise move on a poke will do you in as well.
that's your opinion. I won't bother with the rest since you apparently didn't read the rest of the thread >_>

One offensive poke at least maybe? Something that can clean up? :D
sugestions?

So you get 1/5 points for running a 100% pure defensive/stall teams that are lame, and still horribly weak to taunt and trickchoice. 5/5 for the Ecclasia refrences. Great game. And 4/5 props for your success on the ladder.
thanks

not to be rude or anything, but you just pointed things that don't make much sense just because you apparently don't like stall, and did not make a single sugestion of how I could improve the team.

I know my team insn't perfect and all but please, think first. I know I can't cover everything, but with prediction I can play around - and that's the point of stall - most people think it requires no prediction, but it's exactly the contrary, and needs maybe even more than offensive teams. It's extremely difficunt to do this with all the powerhouses, possibly broken pokemon of new UU, but I like a challenge.
Anyway, If you have any sugestions I'll greatly accept and try them.
----

well, for know I'll test the Scarf Roserade over Froslass (thinking of Energy Ball, Sludge Bomb, Spikes, Rest with a Bulky spread) which can revenge Shadow Sneak Gallade and +1 Gatr. If it doesn't work, I'll try Spiritomb > Froslass and see how it goes.

 

[ToF]

Very nice team Sulphur.

I'd like to say no on the Scarf Roserade over Froslass. The whole reason I think your team is successful is because you start of the game basically with a guaranteed two layers of spikes, dealing 19% to opposing switch-ins. When facing hyper-offensive teams, which I think is the only way this team loses, the 19% will come in handy. The problem with Roserade is that Spikes + Sleep Powder is illegal, so getting spikes up will be tougher. Adding to the fact that Roserade is slower than Froslass if you choose to Sash it, Froslass is the superior choice.

Also, keep Mismagius, as its your only real way of removing CMClefable from the field via Perish Song.

To be honest, I haven't seen one Shadow Sneak Gallade yet. All of them that I've seen run Swords Dance / CC / Night Slash / Filler. Obviously you can play around this with some switching. Nidoqueen can take on Gallade for the most part, and worse comes to worse, Mismagius can Shadow Ball non-Shadow Sneak variants.

As I said before, the only issue I see is hyper-offensive teams. Stuff that intentionally cripples your team to allow stat boosters to sweep end-game is threatening to this team. For example, if Milotic takes heavy damage from an opposing physical threat, you can possibly get sweeped by Agility Blaziken. I can't really find fixes to remedy this as it would ruin the balance of the stall team, but maybe Wish support would be helpful to this team, as opposed to constantly relying on Rest + Aromatherapy. Chansey would fit this team better in my opinion, providing Wish support as well as acting as the team's cleric. Your reasons for using Return on Miltank seem redundant to what Seismic Toss does. You break Raikou's sub, and with the combination of Spikes and Stealth Rock, Entei shouldn't be subbing anyway. If your Feraligatr problems still persist, you can always run HP Electric over Ice Beam on Milotic. Your threat list isn't really dependent on Milotic's Ice Beam much anyway.

Overall great team, I can't find much to critique, so you must have put a lot of thought into it. Good luck.

 

[Wyzra]

Definitely agree with the Mismagius, as I have been using it with the same moveset and the Perish Song/Ground immunity has gotten me out of impossible situations. I think Spiritomb is way overhyped, as I have tried it myself and faced it many times, and it doesn't really do that much. The standard Cro-tomb also does not carry Will-o-Wisp in its moveset, which is pretty essential for afflicting those not poisoned by the Toxic Spikes and helping out on strong physical attackers.

So really, packing Spiritomb just for Gallade isn't that useful: you give up the fast Will-O-Wisp, fast Pain Split, ground/spikes/t-spikes immunity, and most importantly the game-ending Perish Song and replace it with a decent wall who just kinda sits there and spams rest+sleep talk.

 

[Mrobinson587]

Yeah, I forgot him in the threat list. But what about Nidoqueen and Mismagius?

Ice Punch and Payback respectively. I happen to run a set myself with guts leftovers IcePunch/Payback/Close Combat and Bullet Punch that serves as a wall breaker to punch holes in stall teams. I'm sure with the ominprescene of stall right noe others will find other wall breaking sets.

Ok, so your Drapion has Swords Dance, Pursuit, Taunt and is using a Choice Band? ._.

Yes because Choice band sets obviously love to only have 1 attacking move. Sorry if I wasn't clear but I meant two different sets. A CB and SD
My Mismagius can WoW Drapion swich-ins that LOVES to come in everythime. If they don't have a Heal Beller, the burn is permanent.
Sleep talk is listed 3rd in the analysis. The opponent can threaten still do pretty good damage with crunch which with defense drops can out stall it magius if it tries to wall it.


Your curse set beats it but by that time Mismagious may have taken damage that may be harder to recover later on. The opponent would probably switch out the second Regi came in as it's pretty common for sets to run eq

What if its scarfed and comes in after you've attacked. You assume you outspeed it and get night slashed or pursuited depending on your health left?
Nidoqueen and Registeel have EQ, Miltank has Return to kill it. All those can take a hit.
Nidoqueen and Registeel are outsped and hit with EQ before they can hit you.
Adamant CB EQ out speeds and does57.81% - 67.97% to Nidoqueen
48.90% - 57.69% to Registeel Does 42.91% - 50.35% in return to 6 hp neutral Drapion
34.26% - 40.36% to your Milotic (So i guess it could come in after I've KO'd something and recover until high health and then surf)

Makes it very difficult to switch into if you ever lost pursuit weak Mismagious. As soon as I've KO'd one of your pokes I can switch it out and save it for later.

Jolly is actually listed on the analysis so Miltank is outspeed there I belive but the numbers will be lower on the damage end. Miltank won't take much damage from anything so it's probably your best bet here. It seems a lot of pressure is put on miltank and if she falls your team is in trouble.


As you can see it can't setup in anyone... even Milotic can hit its bad Sdef if it's an offensive one. True but EQ/Cross poison has good enough coverage in this UU so I could put a sub on one of your many non attacking moves or a switch, and SD behind that.

I'm not ragging on your prediction skills or anything. I'm just looking at ways in which your walls could be cracked.

Drapion should be a top prioty opponent as he threatens many of your team members offensively and absorbs the toxic spikes that are vital to yout teams success.I would hope you have a good way of dealing with it because it can come in, easily waste two turns of toxic spikes with just a switch in threaten the one poke that can set them up and possibly cause major damage to your team. Not to mention it has sniper as it's ability to the likelyhood of it running a scope lens with its high crit rate moves is a dangerous thing to play around with for switch ins.

Having two resters relying on 1 heal beller seems risky to me but I guess it can work if you feel that you situation. I think it's just a question of time just a question of time before miltank is low on health and needs to choose between "milk drink and give my opponent a free turn or switch in" or "heal bell and recover my teamates who are otherwise dead weights on my team"

that's your opinion. I won't bother with the rest since you apparently didn't read the rest of the thread >_>
Yes I did read your second post on how you handled pokes.

In mean look umbreons case you said its complicated. Well I hope you would have a way to deal with something that would make things complicated for your stall teams. Roar is about your only option and you better hope it doesn't taunt on the switch in (a likely situation if an opponent sees its facing stall).

The whole point I was making with with quick feet Ursaring is that its difficult to wall even unboosted. It can switch in on a shadow ball, or healing move activate its orb and wreak havoc. Who needs set up? Every SD set I've ever encountered dies before it can pull off 1 hit. With UU having naturally less denfensive stats, opponenents will maybe forgo swords dance set altogether and just use great coverage. Look
Lets say facade/cc/shadow claw/ice punch... A likely situation given the current popularity of certain pokes in UU

Unboosted Jolly Facade vsMilotic 61.68% - 72.59%
Miltank 41.88% - 49.24%
Unboosted CC vs
Registeel 45.88% - 54.12%

Mismagius is outsped and takes 62.04% - 72.84% from shadow claw

You will maybe get one correct switch in but an intelligent opponent will see that you are switching to waste it's health in which they double predict.

Milotic being faced down by the prospect of a facade to the face? You get ready to switch to to Mismagius. Even by now, a smart opponent seeing how you switch would start double predicting and throw out a shadow claw. One wrong prediction and either lose some pokes or it leaves your team in ruins.
Switching intelligently may not be a good solultion for something that can be such an effective wall breaker. Sure you team can take a hit but I could be very difficult to get a safe switch in. Frosslass is the only one that outspeeds it and can revenge damage it with ice beam or DB

Anyways back to your threat list.
You did the same thing as Obi did listing how those pokes can seemingly always handle whatever threat turn 1 that those pokes throw up. For him a problem I noticed was say something like Metagross. Metagross is apparantly handled by skarmory and Hippowdon. However Mixed Meta(listed on the analysis with this set before the Platinum Metagame, before his stall was self deemed not as good with the platinum changes) offensively 6-0s his enitire team OHKOing many and 2HKOing the rest. (Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Grass Knot and HP fire btw).

I'll give a perfect example of how this happens. Hippowdon often leads and is often the primary switch into an unknown metagross in Metagross who has a favororable situation. Hippowdon switches in and loses more than half it's health to grass knot and is put under severe pressure for the rest of the match even if it switches out.

You have to predict one of many different viable sets move 1 and if you make a mistake it may put you behind the whole match.
"...with prediction I can play around - and that's the point of stall - most people think it requires no prediction, but it's exactly the contrary, and needs maybe even more than offensive teams..."
I guess that's what I'm saying here. I can predict wrong with a choice band specs item and unless it has an immunity or crazy slanted defenses, which not much in UU has, it's taken more damage that in should have and I get switch in while you heal with my pokes who can attack and cause significant damage to your current poke or set up not caring if it takes a hit from your movepool.

I won't bother with the rest since you apparently didn't read the rest of the thread >_>

Ignoring Trick wont make it go away. So if you want ignore all this blabbing above and just know that I was pointing out threats that others hadn't pointed out or ones I feel you understimated.

Tangrowth (under the sun) could be more of a problem than you are giving it credit for.

Venusaur, toxicroak, curse muk, offensive poison types in general could really be a problem
seeing as you rely so much on toxic spikes.

Honestly I counldn't tell you how to deal with some of these outside of directly attacking them and hoping your entry hazards do enough. Sorry for being unhelpful.

sugestions?
Hariyama? He has think fat or guts high HP and some much needed firepower. He would help with drapion and Umbreon. He has access to some support moves and whirlwind if you want to make him a sturdy attacker. I don't know where it could go on your team since you built your team with certain switch in's in mind but he would work pretty good covering a few of the problematic pokes.

Kanghaskhan? no not really just a worse miltank in this case... Rest Talk Azumarill might work nice. You could forgo sleep talk for aqua jet since you have a heal beller.

Sorry if I'm not clear with what I'm trying to communitcate.

 

[pi face]

Thanks everyone ^_^

I'll definately put HP Electric on Milotic. About the Chansey thing, I'll try her + Slowbro over Milotic and Miltank sometime (and Slowbro sounds good against Gallade hmmm) so I can keep the physical/special defensiveness balanced.

anyway, it's pretty hard to stall very efficiently with all those powerhouses r_r I think I'll wait for the first bans and while it doesn't come, use all them to prove they're broken (I'm looking at you Gallade and Shaymin).

thanks again people.