Tennis Thread 2019

revelations

formerly MysticalHaze
For all you tennis fans out there this is a thing now so hooray? ig. lmao At the time I'm posting its postgame for mens semis. Idk what else now lmao. Anyways happy posting tennis fans!
 
Serena and her apologists are just embarrassed that she lost to a 20 year old so they're making a huge deal out of an umpire applying the rules lmao.
 

revelations

formerly MysticalHaze
Serena and her apologists are just embarrassed that she lost to a 20 year old so they're making a huge deal out of an umpire applying the rules lmao.
WTF not true at ALL. I was watching and I agree it WAS sexist to do that and BTW I'm not a Serena fan. Unfort as well that Delpo lost. He failed to convert SO much gucci in Set 2 and went on to die in Set 3. What a sad way to end. But he IS on Peak form so we could see him continue this form no doubt.
 
WTF not true at ALL. I was watching and I agree it WAS sexist to do that and BTW I'm not a Serena fan. Unfort as well that Delpo lost. He failed to convert SO much gucci in Set 2 and went on to die in Set 3. What a sad way to end. But he IS on Peak form so we could see him continue this form no doubt.
Sexist to apply the rules..?
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Serena and her apologists are just embarrassed that she lost to a 20 year old so they're making a huge deal out of an umpire applying the rules lmao.
yeah when is the last time you saw a player get penalized for coaching at any level in tennis, lmao, good luck digging up an incident. also osaka's coach was coaching her every point, she looked up at him before and after every point. shes fucking 20, she should be allowed to imo.

and then you have every male (and female) pro tennis player coming out and siding with serena and being like 'I've said way worse shit and just gotten the warning'

im 100% certain ppl posting about the rules being applied have never played professional racquet sports, have never refed a game between professionals, but have a hard-on for a story about an angry black woman. Ironically, after her victory, presumably Osaka's 'fans', changed her ancestry on wikipedia to erase her Haitian descent.

I'm no serena apologist, I just dont put my head up my ass for the thrill of it.
 
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Coronis

N'Cha!
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
yeah when is the last time you saw a player get penalized for coaching at any level in tennis, lmao, good luck digging up an incident. also osaka's coach was coaching her every point, she looked up at him before and after every point. shes fucking 20, she should be allowed to imo.

and then you have every male (and female) pro tennis player coming out and siding with serena and being like 'I've said way worse shit and just gotten the warning'

im 100% certain ppl posting about the rules being applied have never played professional racquet sports, have never refed a game between professionals, but have a hard-on for a story about an angry black woman. Ironically, after her victory, presumably Osaka's 'fans', changed her ancestry on wikipedia to erase her Haitian descent.

I'm no serena apologist, I just dont put my head up my ass for the thrill of it.
You do realise that was her third strike? They were past the warning stage.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
im 100% certain ppl posting about the rules being applied have never played professional racquet sports, have never refed a game between professionals, but have a hard-on for a story about an angry black woman.
I'm 100% certain that nobody is more qualified to call out incessant whining than regular posters on a forum home to overly competitive manbabies who can't stand losing at a competitive children's game.

I'm just thankful she only pulled the sex card and not the race one too.
 
Serena was in the wrong just as everyone else who abuses match officials or breaks their racket is wrong whether or not they are punished. Regardless of other examples in which similar incidents were punished or not, that sort of behavior shouldn't be acceptable from anyone. It's tiring how accepted it is in sports in general where everyone thinks it's ok to shout and abuse refs when things don't go their way. I guess it's entertainment or something but I think it sets a really bad example where everyone thinks it's ok to do that at all levels of play (which it's not and shouldn't be, obviously).

I think the entirety of the issue stemmed from a lack of communication. From what I've read and heard, it seems like Serena probably didn't know she had received the first code violation? Ramos could've have done a lot better job of making sure she understood she had a violation, which likely would've prevented the entirety of the episode. Good refereeing involves making sure you are understood and it seems like that was lacking wrt Serena, which is a shame, because it took the spotlight away from the tennis on a great final and incredible moment for Osaka.

Frankly, I don't really understand the "no coaching" rule (or why you can't smash your racket for that matter???) but I guess that's a tennis thing.
 

Coronis

N'Cha!
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Serena was in the wrong just as everyone else who abuses match officials or breaks their racket is wrong whether or not they are punished. Regardless of other examples in which similar incidents were punished or not, that sort of behavior shouldn't be acceptable from anyone. It's tiring how accepted it is in sports in general where everyone thinks it's ok to shout and abuse refs when things don't go their way. I guess it's entertainment or something but I think it sets a really bad example where everyone thinks it's ok to do that at all levels of play (which it's not and shouldn't be, obviously).

I think the entirety of the issue stemmed from a lack of communication. From what I've read and heard, it seems like Serena probably didn't know she had received the first code violation? Ramos could've have done a lot better job of making sure she understood she had a violation, which likely would've prevented the entirety of the episode. Good refereeing involves making sure you are understood and it seems like that was lacking wrt Serena, which is a shame, because it took the spotlight away from the tennis on a great final and incredible moment for Osaka.

Frankly, I don't really understand the "no coaching" rule (or why you can't smash your racket for that matter???) but I guess that's a tennis thing.
Dunno about the coaching but racquet abuse itself can cause harm to players, officials, spectators and even courts. It also can lead to time delays and is just poor sportsmanship.
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
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after a lovely stretch spent doing absolutely nothing but eating, lounging on my couch, and watching us open matches i'm pleased to say that i'm now transitioning from "person who knows the rules of tennis" to tennis fan :) many writers are known tennis fans so it feels like i'm entering into a literary tradition. notes:

props to naomi for her recent play, especially her demeanor since she just looks calm and totally in control in her matches lately (not only during her us open matches but in her toray pan pacific matches as well). props to her again for being wife goals (5'11, super cute, black, gamer so she'll accept my past on this hellsite, rich homebody so she won't blow money that should be spent on me, crazy talented???). props to wta tennis for being much more interesting than atp tennis.

no props to madison keys for not claiming her blackness but i've decided to let it slide for now. no props to ramos for his reffing in the finals. old news now so i won't write much except to say that Myzozoa is right and that rule one of reffing is you definitely don't make match-shifting calls like that in big games unless you have no other options. plus it made the ceremony afterwards /so uncomfortable/. and no props to the tennis channel for only broadcasting atp games so now my broke self will need to get a wta tv subscription or something :(
 
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Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
rule one of reffing is you definitely don't make match-shifting calls like that in big games
No, a large contingent of both fans and players need to realize that the rules don't just magically stop existing for situations of some arbitrarily high level of importance or players of some arbitrarily high level of fame.
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
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No, a large contingent of both fans and players need to realize that the rules don't just magically stop existing for situations of some arbitrarily high level of importance or players of some arbitrarily high level of fame.
when the rules aren't actually enforced with consistency as many people throughout the tennis world have admitted outright this notion of hiding behind "following the rules" rings hollow, especially in the case of the game point penalty where the rule he was judging on is by nature discretionary and it's not like he's calling a ball in vs. out. i don't think it's at all unreasonable to say that in such instances a ref should use better judgment and not rush to insert themselves into a match, particularly given that players are always going to be energized at big moments. it'd be one thing if she was doing something meant to negatively affect her opponent or she'd been threatening him or even swearing at him but by no means was her calling him a thief worthy of a game point infraction, and acting as though reffing can occur, has ever occurred, or should ever occur in any sport without attention to these realities makes no sense.

all that said, i'm more interested in talking about what's actually occurring at this very moment than rehashing the talking points of an already stale match so i'll stop there. if anyone knows the best sites and twitter accounts for wta/general tennis coverage please hit me up. really need more than the articles on the wta website :( also lmk if you have a bootleg stream for this osaka v. pliskova game because i'm not tryna catch the post-game highlights on youtube. also realized one other thing i forgot to give props to which is all the low key celeb sightings in the stands at the us open. when i saw the camera pan over anna wintour during one match i was shook.
 
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Coronis

N'Cha!
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
when the rules aren't actually enforced with consistency as many people throughout the tennis world have admitted outright this notion of hiding behind "following the rules" rings hollow, especially in the case of the game point penalty where the rule he was judging on is by nature discretionary and it's not like he's calling a ball in vs. out. i don't think it's at all unreasonable to say that in such instances a ref should use better judgment and not rush to insert themselves into a match, particularly given that players are always going to be energized at big moments. it'd be one thing if she was doing something meant to negatively affect her opponent or she'd been threatening him or even swearing at him but by no means was her calling him a thief worthy of a game point infraction, and acting as though reffing can occur, has ever occurred, or should ever occur in any sport without attention to these realities makes no sense.

all that said, i'm more interested in talking about what's actually occurring at this very moment than rehashing the talking points of an already stale match so i'll stop there. if anyone knows the best sites and twitter accounts for wta/general tennis coverage please hit me up. really need more than the articles on the wta website :( also lmk if you have a bootleg stream for this osaka v. pliskova game because i'm not tryna catch the post-game highlights on youtube. also realized one other thing i forgot to give props to which is all the low key celeb sightings in the stands at the us open. when i saw the camera pan over anna wintour during one match i was shook.
Just so you do know, the umpire in question has always been consistent like this, and is known for handing out penalties (though other umpires seem not to want to).
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
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Just so you do know, the umpire in question has always been consistent like this, and is known for handing out penalties (though other umpires seem not to want to).
in speaking of consistency i wasn't speaking to ramos's personal record but to a general pattern in the tennis world. i've read plenty about him though, none of which has changed my mind about the call being a mistake, though it sounds like i wouldn't like his reffing style generally

did wind up having to watch the osaka pliskova post-game highlights and was pleased to see the loss wasn't a complete dismantling at 6-4 6-4 even though it was in straight sets, but you could tell in each player's poses that pliskova was in control of the match even though the score was closer on paper. ideally osaka gets some rest and interested to see what lessons she takes into her next match
 
Sorry I know you aren't interested in talking about this but I want to respond to the points you make in your post(s) because I think it's an important discussion.

when the rules aren't actually enforced with consistency as many people throughout the tennis world have admitted outright this notion of hiding behind "following the rules" rings hollow, especially in the case of the game point penalty where the rule he was judging on is by nature discretionary and it's not like he's calling a ball in vs. out. i don't think it's at all unreasonable to say that in such instances a ref should use better judgment and not rush to insert themselves into a match, particularly given that players are always going to be energized at big moments. it'd be one thing if she was doing something meant to negatively affect her opponent or she'd been threatening him or even swearing at him but by no means was her calling him a thief worthy of a game point infraction, and acting as though reffing can occur, has ever occurred, or should ever occur in any sport without attention to these realities makes no sense.
So the solution to the lack of consistency is...more inconsistency? Abusing match officials is a penalty but only if you haven't received any previous violations and the match is in the quarterfinals of the US Open or the semifinals of Wimbledon. Etc. I think you can see the problem with what you're essentially suggesting. Serena received a game point penalty because she broke the rules twice prior. It is not the onus of the referee to police players and let them know they are toeing the line (especially in the professional setting where the players should know the penalties!!!) You are right that the game is not about the referee, but at the same time, that doesn't mean the players have the liberty to act out of control simply because they are playing an important match. What you are suggesting only further makes inconsistent the enforcement of the rules. Should the rules themselves be different? Probably (I think so). But whatever they are, they should and need to be enforced especially as the match becomes more significant.

No matter how unfortunate it is that Serena lost a game in the finals of a major tennis tournament or how perhaps the official could've handled things differently, we can't and shouldn't normalize abuse of referees. It's really not as discretionary of an issue as you might think. The issue with Serena wasn't even necessarily that she called him a thief (although arguably just that alone probably should be a violation). It's that she repeated the comment publicly in front of her opponent in a provocative manner. That is a textbook definition of official abuse. She is insinuating that the referee is biased and attacking his integrity. That is unacceptable. You wouldn't act in the manner in which she did in other workplace situation - why should this be any different?

(As an aside I think that the issue of coaching being an "inconsistent" penalty is less chair umpires ignoring coaches coaching than not noticing it happening).
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
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Sorry I know you aren't interested in talking about this but I want to respond to the points you make in your post(s) because I think it's an important discussion.



So the solution to the lack of consistency is...more inconsistency? Abusing match officials is a penalty but only if you haven't received any previous violations and the match is in the quarterfinals of the US Open or the semifinals of Wimbledon. Etc. I think you can see the problem with what you're essentially suggesting. Serena received a game point penalty because she broke the rules twice prior. It is not the onus of the referee to police players and let them know they are toeing the line (especially in the professional setting where the players should know the penalties!!!) You are right that the game is not about the referee, but at the same time, that doesn't mean the players have the liberty to act out of control simply because they are playing an important match. What you are suggesting only further makes inconsistent the enforcement of the rules. Should the rules themselves be different? Probably (I think so). But whatever they are, they should and need to be enforced especially as the match becomes more significant.

No matter how unfortunate it is that Serena lost a game in the finals of a major tennis tournament or how perhaps the official could've handled things differently, we can't and shouldn't normalize abuse of referees. It's really not as discretionary of an issue as you might think. The issue with Serena wasn't even necessarily that she called him a thief (although arguably just that alone probably should be a violation). It's that she repeated the comment publicly in front of her opponent in a provocative manner. That is a textbook definition of official abuse. She is insinuating that the referee is biased and attacking his integrity. That is unacceptable. You wouldn't act in the manner in which she did in other workplace situation - why should this be any different?

(As an aside I think that the issue of coaching being an "inconsistent" penalty is less chair umpires ignoring coaches coaching than not noticing it happening).
all good, and i appreciate your post. let me try and clarify, because "Abusing match officials is a penalty but only if you haven't received any previous violations and the match is in the quarterfinals of the US Open or the semifinals of Wimbledon. Etc." is not at all what i'm suggesting.

it's not that i don't think rules should be enforced, it's just that given the reality that rules and their enforcement (particularly with discretionary rules like this) are never enforced evenly for all players all the time, and that referees have some degree of latitude with regards to how they enforce certain rules, i wish that ramos had erred on the side of restraint in administering the game penalty. to put it simply, when watching the game i didn't construe her calling him a thief as provocative in the way you're saying it was (she definitely wasn't at all "out of control" for one thing), and certainly wouldn't label it abuse (which to me consists of swearing or threats or anything that would reasonably lead a ref to be concerned over their physical/emotional safety in a moment). being called a thief in the way that ramos was really shouldn't draw more than an eye-roll from a seasoned ref.

also, the fact is that many other players have admitted that they've said and done worse things to referees and been given tacit warnings before even receiving actual warnings or punishments. given that reality, i don't know how serena can reasonably be expected to anticipate that calling ramos a thief (a word that's insulting but not vulgar or threatening) in that moment (one where she was already sure she'd been treated unfairly, at a tournament where she has a history of being treated unfairly, and was using a tone that was exasperated and accusatory but certainly not threatening) would result in that penalty. one could say that players should have to exercise extreme caution, but i think they have enough to worry about given the realities of competition, and as such it's the job of the ref to not only enforce the rules but keep tensions to a minimum when possible and not do anything that would unnecessarily exacerbate them (and given that he could have easily let the comment go, i find it pretty unnecessary). i don't think that's an unreasonable expectation either, given that that's largely what his peers and many other refs are aiming for when they give those tacit warnings to players before things get out of hand. so if you guys are poring through the rules looking for some way ramos flagrantly violated tennis rules you won't find it, and that's not what i'm saying he did. i just think he made a bad error in judgment in administering that game penalty, and i think it would serve people to remember that his decision was a judgment call, regardless of how you feel about the decision. some people are trying to make it seem as cut and dry as calling a ball in or out with chase review and that's just not the case. good officiating is as much an art as a science, and just as with any good art, something being technically sound isn't the same as being the best option.

and can someone please save my girl sloane? if this loss kicks off another string of early exits i'm gonna be sick

update: according to twitter she’s the top 10 player with the most first round exits and it’s not even close ugh

update 2: honestly given her history in the asian swing and her performance so far i don’t even know why i said if like it’s not high probability
 
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Idk if a new one should be started but Aussie Open final right now between Osaka and Kvitova. Winner will take the number 1 spot on rankings.

EDIT: Man, Osaka melting down after having the chance to win it after 5-3. And no I don't mean emotional meltdown.

EDIT 2: Okay now she's breaking down emotionally.

EDIT 3: Here we go again, 5-3 in 3rd set. Already gave up a chance to break at 40-0 when it was 4-2...

EDIT 4: NAOMI WINS 7-6 (7-2), 5-7, 6-4! No drama this time!
 
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