That is very true. But please do not talk about other bugs. Besides, Yanmega is OU, not UU. Venomoth is better than just a TS absorber. It can Baton Pass and SpecsSweep.
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The Best Butterfly?
- Thread starter blastoiselover100
- Start date
Exactly. That is why I cannot see why it is so much better then Butterfree. It can actually kill something.
@whoever
-Just because a pokemon is a UU, its OU uses aren't irrelevant-- there are people who don't play UU, but use the pokes in OU. On that alone, OU uses are not irrelevant. They are certainly not the only consideration, but irrelevancy is to say that it means nothing. Obviously if there is use of a pokemon in OU, than its OU use doesn't mean nothing.
*Besides, people may scoff at "niche useage" but that same niche useage tends to threaten Tentacruel and Frosslass' UU status. Niche useage is based on true ability, and imo all pokes are "niche useage." It's just that some have more than 1 niche, or their niche is demanded a lot more.
-So Chansey might have more overall power than butterfree, but guess what? Which of them is going to see more play? Yeah. Power is important, but so is useage which is why we have a dual system tier. You can't take it from only one side.
-There's nothing wrong with being a one trick pony. Most of the greatest in the world are great at only the 1 thing. The fact that they do 1 thing better than anyone else is itself alone worhty of praise. Better to be a "One trick Pony" than a "Jack of all trades," outclassed in everything.
-We're talking about which one is "better,"-- a question that is so vague, it is obvious that you can't have an objective, true answer. Therefore, you're going to have a discussion, and just look at it and judge them from all different angles. My arguement is true, and it holds, and is something on butterfree's favor. That alone doesn't say "butterfree is better," but it's still true, and one good thing about butterfree.
By the way-- gnats do not become moths. All moths and butterflies must go from the caterpillar/larval stage, to a pupal stage, to become a moth/butterfly. Butterfree wins on the side of being a true butterfly as well. :P
-Just because a pokemon is a UU, its OU uses aren't irrelevant-- there are people who don't play UU, but use the pokes in OU. On that alone, OU uses are not irrelevant. They are certainly not the only consideration, but irrelevancy is to say that it means nothing. Obviously if there is use of a pokemon in OU, than its OU use doesn't mean nothing.
*Besides, people may scoff at "niche useage" but that same niche useage tends to threaten Tentacruel and Frosslass' UU status. Niche useage is based on true ability, and imo all pokes are "niche useage." It's just that some have more than 1 niche, or their niche is demanded a lot more.
-So Chansey might have more overall power than butterfree, but guess what? Which of them is going to see more play? Yeah. Power is important, but so is useage which is why we have a dual system tier. You can't take it from only one side.
-There's nothing wrong with being a one trick pony. Most of the greatest in the world are great at only the 1 thing. The fact that they do 1 thing better than anyone else is itself alone worhty of praise. Better to be a "One trick Pony" than a "Jack of all trades," outclassed in everything.
-We're talking about which one is "better,"-- a question that is so vague, it is obvious that you can't have an objective, true answer. Therefore, you're going to have a discussion, and just look at it and judge them from all different angles. My arguement is true, and it holds, and is something on butterfree's favor. That alone doesn't say "butterfree is better," but it's still true, and one good thing about butterfree.
By the way-- gnats do not become moths. All moths and butterflies must go from the caterpillar/larval stage, to a pupal stage, to become a moth/butterfly. Butterfree wins on the side of being a true butterfly as well. :P
Yes, I understand where you are coming from with that, but Venomoth can do that and more. That is what makes it better. It has usable SAtk, an ability to back it up, Baton Pass, and status moves, as well as an entry hazard. What does Butterfree have, two status moves? I am not saying that Butterfree is not good at what it does, I am saying that Venomoth is just an overall beter pokemon.
If all of the pokemon being discussed saw equal usage in the OU environment then I would agree with you, however to the best of my knowledge they do not. Therefore IMHO it is irrelevant as to whether X is better than Y in OU.
A general consensus has placed all of these butterflies/moths within the “UU” tier (NU has not been decided upon yet), therefore a fair comparison of their abilities should be based upon their performance in this environment, and not one in which they were not intended to be used.
As a player you are, of course, perfectly within your right to use any pokemon outside of its tier, however to place so much emphasis upon this is offering an essenitally skewed perspective. If one considers the number of "sleepers" Butterfree has to compete for within that environment, and then the number Venomoth has (in a CSpecs user role), of course Butterfree is going to see more useage and therefore appear to do better in its respective role. The comparison is however unfair given the extreme imbalance in the level of competition facing each pokemon in relation to their role
Whilst I agree that true objectivity is unattainable, I can’t help but feel that this reads like a cop out …
As for the truth of your argument, well I’ll just borrow from Ursula Le Guin by saying that “Truth is a matter of the imagination” … I’m sure your “logical steps” make perfect sense to you, for me the whole SpecsMence /SpecsMoth comparison was just too inane. Sorry.
Butterfree weaks:
4x Rock
2x Ice, Electric, Fire, Flying
Venomoth weaks:
2x Psychic, Rock, Fire, Flying
Okay, so they have three of the same weaks, but Rock is 4x on Butterfree
Butterfree base stats:
60/45/50/80/80/70; Total=385
Venomoth base stats:
70/65/60/90/75/90; Total=450
Venomonth has Butterfree beat in base stats.
Butterfree ability:
Compoundeys: Raises accuracy by 30%
Venomoth abilities:
Shield Dust: Prevents added effects of moves.
Tinted Lens: The power of "not very effective" moves is doubled.
It is up to the user to determine which ability is better, but I say Tinted Lens > Compoundeyes always.
Butterfree notable special attacks:
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Energy Ball
Silver Wind
Hidden Power
Notable physical attacks:
Why bother?
Notable support attacks:
Roost
Tailwind
Safeguard
Whirlwind
Toxic
Sleep Powder
Stun Spore
Venomoth notable special attacks:
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Sludge Bomb
Energy Ball
Silver Wind
Hidden Power
Notable physical attacks:
Zen Headbutt
Aerial Ace
U-turn
Notable support attacks:
Stun Spore
Sleep Powder
Toxic
Roost
Agility
Screech
Baton Pass
Toxic Spikes
Morning Sun
As you can see, this thing is way better than Butterfree in base stats, move pool, and ability(well this is really up to you).
4x Rock
2x Ice, Electric, Fire, Flying
Venomoth weaks:
2x Psychic, Rock, Fire, Flying
Okay, so they have three of the same weaks, but Rock is 4x on Butterfree
Butterfree base stats:
60/45/50/80/80/70; Total=385
Venomoth base stats:
70/65/60/90/75/90; Total=450
Venomonth has Butterfree beat in base stats.
Butterfree ability:
Compoundeys: Raises accuracy by 30%
Venomoth abilities:
Shield Dust: Prevents added effects of moves.
Tinted Lens: The power of "not very effective" moves is doubled.
It is up to the user to determine which ability is better, but I say Tinted Lens > Compoundeyes always.
Butterfree notable special attacks:
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Energy Ball
Silver Wind
Hidden Power
Notable physical attacks:
Why bother?
Notable support attacks:
Roost
Tailwind
Safeguard
Whirlwind
Toxic
Sleep Powder
Stun Spore
Venomoth notable special attacks:
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Sludge Bomb
Energy Ball
Silver Wind
Hidden Power
Notable physical attacks:
Zen Headbutt
Aerial Ace
U-turn
Notable support attacks:
Stun Spore
Sleep Powder
Toxic
Roost
Agility
Screech
Baton Pass
Toxic Spikes
Morning Sun
As you can see, this thing is way better than Butterfree in base stats, move pool, and ability(well this is really up to you).
Not really, since Venomoth can do the exact same thing as Butterfree and it actually can do something after statusing.
Butterfree would be better there because of the higher accuracy even though Venomoth is faster.
Why can others not see the truth in what you have said. Does anyone actually have some instance in which Butterfree actually kills something?
What do you mean that Butterfree is better in OU? It is not the only thing that can status. Venomoth can kill just about anything that does not kill it first, thanks to Tinted Lens.
We are talking about how good Butterfree and Venomoth are relative to each other, not relative to the whole metagame. Venomoth can do everything Butterfree does except hit 97.5% of the time with Sleep Powder. Unlike Butterfree, after putting stuff to sleep, it is not deadweight. And since we're talking about being outclassed, what does Butterfree have over Breloom? Breloom has better resistances, as well as Spore, which has 100% accuracy. He can put the hurt on just about anything with his massive attack stat, and excellent attacks. Now factor in his SR resistance, and Poison Heal. Just because Breloom has better things to do than Doublepowder all the time doesn't mean that he can't. So the whole nothing-outclasses-Butterfree-at-what-it-does argument doesn't work.
Yes. I swept the gamestop tournament with one.
Sleep Powder + Substitute = hard to kill.
Masquerain! I love that thing.
venomoth simply because of the venomoth pokemon card i the jungle series... the ability to change his attack to any type for always super effective and the ability to make the pokemon confused and poisoned was awesome
This is a butterfly/moth poll. Masquerein is not even an option, nor is it a butterly or moth.
Easily Butterfree. He keeps making it to UU somehow despite having such abysmal stats. Pretty cool if you ask me.
Venomoth has far better stats, but doesn't get used more than Butterfree, and if so, not by a lot.
Venomoth has far better stats, but doesn't get used more than Butterfree, and if so, not by a lot.
I'm going to say Venomoth. As ShinyOddish said, Butterfree is a one trick pony. Venomoth is a nice Choice Specs user, and is also a very nice Baton Passer. I ran Agility/BatonPass/ToxicSpikes/Hypnosis as a lead. Anything under 306 speed was a field day for him.