Pokémon The Eternal Flower (or: Floette-E)

[UltiMario]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%)

To be completely honest, for something with only 92 Spe, I'm not sure 50% recoil is worth essentially a Life Orb boost over Sylveon, especially when we know Specs Sylveon isn't really that great to begin with.

You're killing yourself in three hits from recoil, and anything that can survive a single hit will be able to outspeed you or just hit you with priority for enough damage to kill you, or at worst kill you after your next hit of recoil, causing a trade.

This is no better than when people were drooling over the sheer power Rampardos could put into a single hit back when Gen 4 was new, or Darmanitan with Gen 5: it's just not going to add up to a good Pokemon. I was more interested in seeing this as a bulkier pure Fairy with Eviolite, completely forgoing Light of Ruin for the raw stats. Unfortunately it didn't work out this way, so I'm not actually seeing Floette becoming any sort of major mon in the meta, nothing more than a gimmick tbh.

 

[Chou Toshio]

It's speed is still meh as a Special attacker, and it's physical bulk is terrible for something so slow-- if you invest in max Speed, it'll get one shot by most powerful physical attacks, with or without SE.

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette: 296-348 (102.4 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette: 271-321 (93.7 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz (or Brave Bird) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (102.7 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Furthermore, it's HP is so weak that it it can't handle Recoil even as well as Darmanitan.

If you want to only look at power, I think Darmanitan is a good comparison-- except Darmanitan is faster, has WAY better coverage moves, handles Recoil better, pivoting, and stomps the best defensive type in the game flat. And darmanitan still sucks in this meta.

Floette-E has going for it by comparison is greater Special bulk and a lack of an SR weak. In this metagame full of fast, physical attackers and insane priority, a Specs or Scarf Floette-E will be an annoyance at best-- nothing game changing.

In defensive roles not trying to abuse the power of its signature Attack, it would be an inferior Sylveon-- that's what I meant.






Oh, while I'm making the comparison, I also might as well point out that Floette-E is WAY weaker than both Victini and Darmanitan...

252 SpA Choice Specs Floette (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 220-261 (72.3 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 267-315 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

EDIT FIXED CALC-- let's stay on topic; SpD EVs or no, the point is that Floette-E is still weaker than the hardest hitting Pokemon that exist in the tier.

 

[sidakarya]

I would rather think, Staraptor is a much better analogy. As said before, both have similar attacking stats, terrible physical bulk and similarly average speed, both die in three of their own hits, both are by nature short-lived wallbreakers, clearing the way for some other thing to sweep. Bear in mind also, Staraptor is also weaker than Victini and Darmanitan, is vulnerable to priority and revenge-killers, and is Stealth Rock weak, hurting what would be a strong point in pivoting - and yet, people use it quite successfully in a very well-known team archetype. I could get that, because it's so limited in its roles (it's a wallbreaker by force, not by choice) it's probably not going to be A+ rank or what, and it will occupy a niche role, but wholly unviable? I really don't see that.

And why would you want to stay in on Garchomp and Latios, who could not telegraph their obvious revenge-kill more loudly (they're sure as hell not switching into Floette-E), were you not carrying a scarf and making the most audacious of predictions. You surely would not do the same for Staraptor. If Floette-E killed some important defensive pivot with LoR, HP Ground or what have you, it has arguably done its job. It's not supposed to sweep.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I would rather think, Staraptor is a much better analogy. As said before, both have similar attacking stats, terrible physical bulk and similarly average speed, both die in three of their own hits, both are by nature short-lived wallbreakers, clearing the way for some other thing to sweep. Bear in mind also, Staraptor is also weaker than Victini and Darmanitan, is vulnerable to priority and revenge-killers, and is Stealth Rock weak - and yet, people use it quite successfully in a very well-known team archetype. I could get that, because it's so limited in its roles (it's a wallbreaker by force, not by choice) it's probably not going to be A+ rank or what, and it will occupy a niche role, but wholly unviable? I really don't see that.

And why would you want to stay in on Garchomp and Latios, who could not telegraph their obvious revenge-kill more loudly (they're sure as hell not switching into Floette-E), were you not carrying a scarf and making the most audacious of predictions. You surely would not do the same for Staraptor. If Floette-E killed some important defensive pivot with LoR, HP Ground or what have you, it has arguably done its job. It's not supposed to sweep.

Staraptor is a terrible example. Starapto has Close Combat, one of the best possible coverage attacks for a Flying Pokemon. It also has U-turn and STAB priority (and two powerful STAB at that). Staraptor's 100 base Speed makes is also a huge factor.

Plus Flying is the best STAB attacking type in the game!


Finally, Staraptor would be gimmick without double bird, and would not be popular without the broke as shit Talonflame and Pinsir around. Do you see anything like that in fairies?

 

[Hidious]

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Florges (125 SpA) Moonblast (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Rather coincidentally, they both hit for the same amount yet Staraptor has better coverage, a more spammable stab, and U-turn while Floette-E has poor coverage relying on Psychic and HP. It isn't a very good comparison.

 

[Always!]

Staraptor is a terrible example. Starapto has Close Combat, one of the best possible coverage attacks for a Flying Pokemon. It also has U-turn and STAB priority (and two powerful STAB at that). Staraptor's 100 base Speed makes is also a huge factor.

Plus Flying is the best STAB attacking type in the game!


Finally, Staraptor would be gimmick without double bird, and would not be popular without the broke as shit Talonflame and Pinsir around. Do you see anything like that in fairies?

Agreeing with everything but the bold. Isn't that Ghost?

Either way, this thing is still interesting, and it does have quite a bit of power going for it, so... I can see this thing making an OU appearance at times.

 

[NeonNinja96]

Staraptor is a terrible example. Starapto has Close Combat, one of the best possible coverage attacks for a Flying Pokemon. It also has U-turn and STAB priority (and two powerful STAB at that). Staraptor's 100 base Speed makes is also a huge factor.

Plus Flying is the best STAB attacking type in the game!


Finally, Staraptor would be gimmick without double bird, and would not be popular without the broke as shit Talonflame and Pinsir around. Do you see anything like that in fairies?

Floette-E's speed is only a little less than Staraptor, and with it getting access to what is quite possibly the best fairy move in the game, i think it could be very threatening with the right support. I do not think it will stay OU however, because it's stats are lackluster, save for it's SAtk. It could still be a nuke in lower tiers.

 

[Afti]

"Only a little less" is disingenuous at best.

Yeah, it's only 8 base points - but those send it from the 100 base speed tier to hovering awkwardly above the 90 base speed tier.

 

[NeonNinja96]

"Only a little less" is disingenuous at best.

Yeah, it's only 8 base points - but those send it from the 100 base speed tier to hovering awkwardly above the 90 base speed tier.

Yes, but floette-e can still function as a late game sweeper pretty well, sticky web will always be a threat.

 

[TheTraininator]

Floette and Staraptor may fulfill similar roles, yes, but lets keep in mind they hold different niches. As an offensive Fairy type nuke with decent Special bulk and Speed, its more worth comparing to Mega Gardevoir and Togekiss instead of Staraptor.

 

[doughboy]

What a strange poke

Really I can only see Floette-E carving its niche as a Scarfer. Comparing it to all the other usable Fairy-types out there, it is the only offensive Fairy with high speed outside of Mega-Gardevoir.

Hide

=calcs]252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 216-255 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 237-280 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Floette Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 187-220 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Floette (No Move) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 274-324 (90.4 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 213-252 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Floette (No Move) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 315-372 (103.9 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Mega-Gardevoir's Hyper Voice is just as powerful as Floette-E's Specs Moonblast to put Mega-Gardevoir's power output into perspective. Ultimately Mega-Gardevoir is going to be a better all-out-attacker than Floette-E because of

• ability to pokes in the base 90's (kube / mega-chomp) and tie base 100's
• ability to beat special tanks / Poison-types (Mega-Saur) with STAB Psyshock
• better coverage with Focus Blast to hit Steel-types

Having a nuclear option is cool, but won't be much use to use if you are going to make yourself a picking for a faster pokemon the following turn by taking 1/2 of your health or more. By slapping a Choice Scarf on Floette, you limit the amount of Pokemon that can get a hit off on you. This is important because it let's you use Light of Ruin a lot more freely than before. In 5th gen Darmanitan and Infernape could use Choice Scarf Flare Blitz much more freely for the same reasion. Also, Floette-E can distinguish itself from Gardevoir and other Fairy-types by being the fastest Fairy-type Scarfer around. Light of Ruin is a good move because it is just so powerful you can force out nearly any offensive target with your high speed backed by a Choice Scarf. Even standard Rotom-W still faces a 2HKO even without any boosts behind Light of Ruin.

tl;dr mega-gardevoir for all out attacker, floette for scarf only p much

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

The Eternal Flower has its very own signature move, Light of Ruin, which it naturally learns at Level 50. It is a special Fairy-type attack with a whopping 140 base power and apparently, a recoil-effect similar to Head Smash. With a standard boosting item, Floette-E's Light of Ruin is, in fact, the hardest-hitting special Fairy attack in the game, outdamaging M-Gardevoir's Hyper Voice and even Xerneas' Moonblast!

OK, I'm kind of nitpicking here, but wouldn't Gardevoir-Mega's Hyper Beam hit harder than Floette's Light of Ruin? 150 base power, with a Pixilate 1.3x boost, and higher overall special attack. One has recoil, one has immobility on the next turn. But Gardevoir has a more powerful attack.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

OK, I'm kind of nitpicking here, but wouldn't Gardevoir-Mega's Hyper Beam hit harder than Floette's Light of Ruin? 150 base power, with a Pixilate 1.3x boost, and higher overall special attack. One has recoil, one has immobility on the next turn. But Gardevoir has a more powerful attack.

Massive recoil is always better than a completely free turn for the opponent.

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

Massive recoil is always better than a completely free turn for the opponent.

That's not what I was arguing. I (mostly) agree (it's kind of a 'pick your poison' type thing IMO) that free turns are worse than recoil. However, I was simply saying that OP was wrong in saying it's the most powerful special Fairy move.

 

[Elveman]

OK, I'm kind of nitpicking here, but wouldn't Gardevoir-Mega's Hyper Beam hit harder than Floette's Light of Ruin? 150 base power, with a Pixilate 1.3x boost, and higher overall special attack. One has recoil, one has immobility on the next turn. But Gardevoir has a more powerful attack.

Hyper Beam is terrible move overall. It makes you lose A LOT of momentum giving a chance to your opponent to set up (and who the hell will attack inactive pokemon when there's possibility to set up freely 100% of time?). EDIT: LoR is the most powerful VIABLE special Fairy move

 

[Hidious]

That's not what I was arguing. I (mostly) agree (it's kind of a 'pick your poison' type thing IMO) that free turns are worse than recoil. However, I was simply saying that OP was wrong in saying it's the most powerful special Fairy move.

Look at it this way: Which move does more damage over 2 turns? I think you know which is more powerful now. Hyper beam is a 2 turn move, just the reverse of stuff like sky attack and solar beam.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

Floette-E is more an UU pokemon than a OU pokemon given how the metagame is down.

In UU, it could be very useful, specially if MGardevoir stay BL and go up to OU (It could soon with MLucario ban). Also, remember that the fact it has a move doesn't mean that you have to use it.

I like that Floette-E is not Nakagawa Pichu. it can't evolve, but has high stats to compensate that.

 

[Albacore]

How about a Choice Scarf? The only problem with Floette-E is its speed, and Scarf fixes that. And Light of Ruin is the move it'll be using 90% of the time, so locking yourself into it isn't too bad.
And a lot of faster threats (Latios, Terrakion, Garchomp, Greninja) are weak to Fairy.
Unforunately, it does miss a OHKO on stuff like Pinsir, so it may not be that great. And anything with Bullet Punch or Flying-type priority destroys it.

 

[NickFusi0n]

Yes, LoR was leaked a few months ago by Serebii including the description which turned out to be correct. And it can be drawn by Hotel R.'s name picking thing.
Anyway... Floette-E seems underwhelming for OU especially since Eviolite doesn't work on her... UU maybe?

 

[aVocado]

Is this confirmed to not get Eviolite boosts?

 

[Xelus Shnider]

It still looks rather underwhelming for UU given the things that can resist it and the dragons Hydreigon and Haxorus have their answers to it, as for something like Umbreon, Zapdos, Blastoise a specs set seems to loosen them up quite nicely

 

[Albacore]

It still looks rather underwhelming for UU given the things that can resist it and the dragons Hydreigon and Haxorus have their answers to it, as for something like Umbreon, Zapdos, Blastoise a specs set seems to loosen them up quite nicely

I honestly doubt this thing will be allowed in RU. Is there anything in UU besides Chansey that can survive 2 Choice Specs Lights of Ruin?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 336-396 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Although it won't survive the recoil.

 

[Rotosect]

Yet another intended "dragon check" that fails at its job because of its low speed and defense.
If it only had 10 more base speed...

 

[Xelus Shnider]

I honestly doubt this thing will be allowed in RU. Is there anything in UU besides Chansey that can survive 2 Choice Specs Lights of Ruin?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 336-396 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Although the recoil will kill it.

Numbers changed to mimic Floette E's stats and moonblast to 150 BP
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
52+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 156-185 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arcanine: 162-192 (42.1 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Okay so a few things I dont think are commonly used

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 470-554 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 303-357 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Blastoise: 256-303 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 348-409 (96.1 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 223-263 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert: 426-502 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Swampert: 285-336 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and the 2 calcs that break it all from the top of my head

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Aggron: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 202-238 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Not UU but still)

WHAAAAT???

 

[Albacore]

Numbers changed to mimic Floette E's stats and moonblast to 150 BP
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
52+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 156-185 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arcanine: 162-192 (42.1 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Okay so a few things I dont think are commonly used

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 470-554 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 303-357 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Blastoise: 256-303 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 348-409 (96.1 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 223-263 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert: 426-502 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Swampert: 285-336 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and the 2 calcs that break it all from the top of my head

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Aggron: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 202-238 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Not UU but still)

WHAAAAT???

Light of Ruin is only 140 BP, so AV Arcanine seems like a fantastic counter:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Florges Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 102-120 (26.5 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Florges Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Aggron: 152-179 (44.1 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO.
Specially Defensive M-Aggron counters, but gets completely wrecked in the process.

Also, why would you use Specs with only 52 SpA EVs? That makes no sense!