I'd say you won but zerowing was a close second.
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The Everything NHL Thread
- Thread starter Jackal
- Start date
nah i kinda like them
When's the draft again? <_< Also do any of you still use IRC, last few times I came, it was empty =3
haha
This nearly 10 year old irc community isn't about to die, it simply moved. I suggest trying irc.synirc.net
See you there.
I for one, am very glad the Penguins won. After the Canadiens were eliminated, coverage here shifted to the Penguins, you could tell the french media had made it their second team because of the amount of locals playing in that team.
What's the channel, since I think I have the wrong one lol
Haha seriously what channel were you going to?
I actually misspelled smogon LOL
I was going to make a joke about that like Smongon or something but I didnt want to sound like an idiot.
Any news on who the Islanders are gonna take <_<
obligatory "my team/city is the best" post in a thread i didnt read (but if you dont know im smogons #1 resident pittsburgher without looking at the Location I'll never change then you have issues)
on a note that people can actually discuss: can someone with a brain actually tell me why anybody but his family members and maybe his teammates should feel bad for hossa? i'm obviously biased but even my better judgment would tell me "lol looks like like karma for hossa for leaving a team that evidently didnt need him for one that definitely didn't"
on a note that people can actually discuss: can someone with a brain actually tell me why anybody but his family members and maybe his teammates should feel bad for hossa? i'm obviously biased but even my better judgment would tell me "lol looks like like karma for hossa for leaving a team that evidently didnt need him for one that definitely didn't"
It isnt that bad since he didnt leave for more money. Pittsburgh offered him a deal for a lot of money and he didnt think they could win a championship with him on the team (which they probably couldnt have since they would have to have not signed/traded some players to keep Hossa). He took less money in Detroit for a chance at winning which is very admirable since he decided not to be clouded by the almighty dollar and was rewarded with a heartbreak.
Also the links in your signature don't work!
Hossa also had to deal with a bunch of teams and their garbage (i.e. Being traded to Atlanta).
you dont often get the chance to both go to a different and better team and also sign for more money, especially when the team you stand to leave is "the second best team in the league." i think that either way you're going to come off as really picky when you leave the second best team in the league in your perception and go to the best one, especially the one that beat you. it's conceivable that the "best team" in one conference was really banged up late and that's the clear reason "Detroit" made it to the final instead of the "real best team", im not saying detroit wasnt the best last year because i actually know they were, i'm just pointing out that going to "the best" team or the team that gives you the best chance to win the cup is hard to do on paper.
it's like theorymon really, who was to say that hossa would even fit with the superstars of detroit? i'm not using hindsight to make that statement, it's just true. if hossa really felt he didnt actually fit in pittsburgh that's one thing, but if he's at all a difference-maker he should realize that he is going to have to fit really well on one line there in detroit if he's not going to disrupt the chemistry of "the best team". i can't stress enough that there's a ton of players would would love to go to pittsburgh in the off season, or be last year's hossa, or leave their current NBA teams to got sit on the lakers' bench, or make 4th-string whateverback on the steelers (or patriots, brady's back after all), just for a chance to win a championship. a ton. especially the wings, who have won what 4-of-13 now or whatever? but you don't just leave your current team to do that, especially if you don't think you can be a difference-maker and especially if the team youre leaving is "arguably" the second best team (the best argument in such cases is usually how far a team made it in the playoffs).
the whole "if you cant beat em, join em" mentality applies here and seems like a copout to leave the second best team unless you really think you can make a positive difference on the best team, otherwise it just seems really selfish and comes off as defeatist. not as selfish as leaving the second best team for money, but doing that isnt defeatist at all as far as indicating that you personally can't be a difference-maker is concerned. i'm not complaining or anything, the trades we got allowed us to win and i wouldn't change a thing about my season, and it's not as though we really needed him. it'd be the easiest thing in the world to indicate how many points hossa had in the cup finals and in the playoffs to make my own, but im not going to do that cause the move stunk the minute he made it.
again, the question is whether or not you should feel bad for him, not whether he's a (BAN ME PLEASE) for leaving (which i would say amongst my friends here with no disagreement). he took a pretty big gamble and lost. if he'd stayed with Pittsburgh and conceivably felt they could reach the final again with him (that's a separate argument but whatever), there's no guarantee detroit makes the final again and his chances would have been that much better this year with virtually no changes on his part. i dont feel bad for him for making that gamble. especially because he seemingly didnt show up for the playoffs and do what he could to win the cup this time.
i know, it's been about 2½ years now and i'm not changing my sig until the JAA stuff is back up cause im weird and stubborn, bug DM about it!
As far as the Hossa thing... I personally don't feel too bad about the whole thing unless I see an injury report, because while I was expecting to find out he was nursing a pretty debilitating injury (ala Nick Lidstrom), if he was seriously fine enough to be playing unrestricted the playoff disappearing act is pretty inexcusable. Can't feel too bad about people who don't work hard enough to help themselves.
That said, the Hossa traitor angle is getting pretty exaggerated. It's funny, too, in that pretty much every media outlet was really supportive of it when it happened since it's almost unheard of in this sport for players to not sign the most expensive offer thrown at them, and frankly it worked out a lot better for all parties involved that things worked they way they did from a cap management point of view. I firmly believe Pittsburgh would be a worse team if they lost Hossa just because not having that massive cap hit let them pick up a bunch of role players (Guerin, Fedotenko, Satan, Kunitz(even though I still think they lost that trade)) that they couldn't have afforded with Hossa in the books. I think Ottawa is a good example of why this wouldn't have worked out real well long term, as well - it just doesn't work out very well to have all your cap loaded in three or four players over the long term, and Hossa, Fleury, Malkin, and Crosby would be accounting for over half the cap on their own once this inevitable drop happens. It wasn't a bad thing for Pittsburgh my any means to lose him.
From the Wings' side, they're going to need to some serious restructuring this summer just because basically every role player (including Hossa, who was barely even that when it counted) has a contract set to expire. Signing Hossa for a year worked out very well for them for that - they knew he was probably a rental, but they had a bunch of cap room open for this season, which is why it was a one year deal to begin with, because next year they have to extend a bunch of contracts, in the process increasing the price on players they already have in a game they're losing dollars in. I think resigning Hossa for a long term deal, which for some reason Holland is apparently still considering, is probably a poor call for similar reasons as the Ottawa comparison above, but I don't think there's really anyone involved in the sport who wouldn't agree Holland has been the best GM in the league the last decade and a half so I'll just shut up and let him be ridiculous.
For Hossa's part, the only part anyone seems to focus on, he could have taken a deal basically as Crosby's franchise winger for the next seven or so years, which frankly is a pretty sweet deal and I'm unsure why people just seem to assume he didn't consider it. I suspect a lot of why he did not take the deal was because of whiny (at the time) coach Therrien, who the current Penguins didn't seem to want to play for either, given that they weren't even in the playoff picture until the coaching swap. I am also curious if the amount of pressure wasn't a turn off for Hossa, since he's never really been the guy anywhere else. He was behind Alfredsson in Ottawa, Kovalchuk in Atlanta, and then signed in a Detroit team with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Obviously Pittsburgh has plenty of other star power, but with Crosby being mainly a passer and that being the bona fide line one with him, I wonder if pressure wasn't a thought... he doesn't seem to do real well with that. The coaching change relates to the systems the teams played, which Hossa has said is a big appeal to him, too - the Wings play a very European style game compared to most other teams (even though for some reason they tried to dump and chase a lot in the finals?), which tends to be appealing to the higher skill/intellect European players who fit the system. Hossa knew he was a lock there, and in the regular season he was - it did work out pretty well until he decided to collapse in the playoffs. Not having Datsyuk near 100% to feed him the puck probably wasn't helping much there either, but man he choked...
The other Freudian angle of this that I think is often over looked is that when he was just breaking in he signed a long term deal with Ottawa as part of their future, and then was traded almost immediately for Dany Heatley in Atlanta, going from a team that ended up making the cup finals a couple years ago to one that has never won a playoff round, after the car crash incident. Several years later he was then traded by Atlanta to a Pittsburgh team at the trade deadline he only played 40~ games with counting the playoffs - a hell of a lot less than any other team he played for, in spite of this ridiculous traitor angle. Pittsburgh traded a bunch of prospects for him knowing he was probably a rental trying to win now, but I kind of wonder if Hossa isn't wanting to man up to a long term deal without a no-trade clause - something I'm pretty sure the Pens weren't offering.
Speaking of Dany Heatley and Ottawa, though, I'm a lot more curious about him than Hossa right now. Rumor(by rumor I mean every major hockey outlet is covering it) has it he's decided he's played his last game in Ottawa and is demanding a trade, apparently Edmonton and San Jose have sent in offers. After his Hossaesque disappearing act last season I'll be interested in seeing where he resurfaces, should be poised for a big year...
EDIT: Additionally, I'm VERY disappointed I'm apparently not going to get to play for the Hamilton Blackberries on NHL 10...
That said, the Hossa traitor angle is getting pretty exaggerated. It's funny, too, in that pretty much every media outlet was really supportive of it when it happened since it's almost unheard of in this sport for players to not sign the most expensive offer thrown at them, and frankly it worked out a lot better for all parties involved that things worked they way they did from a cap management point of view. I firmly believe Pittsburgh would be a worse team if they lost Hossa just because not having that massive cap hit let them pick up a bunch of role players (Guerin, Fedotenko, Satan, Kunitz(even though I still think they lost that trade)) that they couldn't have afforded with Hossa in the books. I think Ottawa is a good example of why this wouldn't have worked out real well long term, as well - it just doesn't work out very well to have all your cap loaded in three or four players over the long term, and Hossa, Fleury, Malkin, and Crosby would be accounting for over half the cap on their own once this inevitable drop happens. It wasn't a bad thing for Pittsburgh my any means to lose him.
From the Wings' side, they're going to need to some serious restructuring this summer just because basically every role player (including Hossa, who was barely even that when it counted) has a contract set to expire. Signing Hossa for a year worked out very well for them for that - they knew he was probably a rental, but they had a bunch of cap room open for this season, which is why it was a one year deal to begin with, because next year they have to extend a bunch of contracts, in the process increasing the price on players they already have in a game they're losing dollars in. I think resigning Hossa for a long term deal, which for some reason Holland is apparently still considering, is probably a poor call for similar reasons as the Ottawa comparison above, but I don't think there's really anyone involved in the sport who wouldn't agree Holland has been the best GM in the league the last decade and a half so I'll just shut up and let him be ridiculous.
For Hossa's part, the only part anyone seems to focus on, he could have taken a deal basically as Crosby's franchise winger for the next seven or so years, which frankly is a pretty sweet deal and I'm unsure why people just seem to assume he didn't consider it. I suspect a lot of why he did not take the deal was because of whiny (at the time) coach Therrien, who the current Penguins didn't seem to want to play for either, given that they weren't even in the playoff picture until the coaching swap. I am also curious if the amount of pressure wasn't a turn off for Hossa, since he's never really been the guy anywhere else. He was behind Alfredsson in Ottawa, Kovalchuk in Atlanta, and then signed in a Detroit team with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Obviously Pittsburgh has plenty of other star power, but with Crosby being mainly a passer and that being the bona fide line one with him, I wonder if pressure wasn't a thought... he doesn't seem to do real well with that. The coaching change relates to the systems the teams played, which Hossa has said is a big appeal to him, too - the Wings play a very European style game compared to most other teams (even though for some reason they tried to dump and chase a lot in the finals?), which tends to be appealing to the higher skill/intellect European players who fit the system. Hossa knew he was a lock there, and in the regular season he was - it did work out pretty well until he decided to collapse in the playoffs. Not having Datsyuk near 100% to feed him the puck probably wasn't helping much there either, but man he choked...
The other Freudian angle of this that I think is often over looked is that when he was just breaking in he signed a long term deal with Ottawa as part of their future, and then was traded almost immediately for Dany Heatley in Atlanta, going from a team that ended up making the cup finals a couple years ago to one that has never won a playoff round, after the car crash incident. Several years later he was then traded by Atlanta to a Pittsburgh team at the trade deadline he only played 40~ games with counting the playoffs - a hell of a lot less than any other team he played for, in spite of this ridiculous traitor angle. Pittsburgh traded a bunch of prospects for him knowing he was probably a rental trying to win now, but I kind of wonder if Hossa isn't wanting to man up to a long term deal without a no-trade clause - something I'm pretty sure the Pens weren't offering.
Speaking of Dany Heatley and Ottawa, though, I'm a lot more curious about him than Hossa right now. Rumor(by rumor I mean every major hockey outlet is covering it) has it he's decided he's played his last game in Ottawa and is demanding a trade, apparently Edmonton and San Jose have sent in offers. After his Hossaesque disappearing act last season I'll be interested in seeing where he resurfaces, should be poised for a big year...
EDIT: Additionally, I'm VERY disappointed I'm apparently not going to get to play for the Hamilton Blackberries on NHL 10...
yeah or you could reread the part where i said:
specifically so i wouldn't have to waste time typing more words to head off qualms like the one you just posted! what i talk about amongst my friends can be intentionally pejorative. and it would only be nonsensical if i didn't actually personally believe that people are selfish