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The Everything NHL Thread

Heysup said:
The nucks need to get rid of luongo in my opinion....Schneider (RIP manitoba moose) is better. Think of who they could get for him too. I hope that rumoured TB trade happens (Luongo for Vinny Lecavalier)
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I'm actually not sure if you're trolling or not.
 
8 games, 9 goals for Kessel.

On an unrelated note I might go watch the Leafs in Florida during March Break! The play on Tuesday the 13th.
 
Eraddd said:
I'm actually not sure if you're trolling or not.
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Numbers don't troll. Opportunity cost of keeping Luongo is high and he's not performing. If he doesn't shape up quickly Schneider is very capable of playing as a No. 1 Goalie. He could just be having a few bad games but we'll see.

Also fuck these linesmen.
 
I do wish Luongo could just get the hell out of there. There arent many people in Vancouver that haven't turned on him.

Then they can play Schneider, apparently some proven hero and sole missing piece to the Stanley Cup.
 
Heysup said:
Numbers don't troll. Opportunity cost of keeping Luongo is high and he's not performing. If he doesn't shape up quickly Schneider is very capable of playing as a No. 1 Goalie. He could just be having a few bad games but we'll see.

Also fuck these linesmen.
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Did you even read Carl's link...?

And yes, paying $5.33 mil for a goalie who was nominated for the Vezina and has carried this fucking team through thick and thin is definitely a terrible number.

Let's put it this way: you don't watch Canucks games at all. You stand back with your little numbers and stats "OH NOEZ! LUONGO HAS SHITTY STATS ATM. THEREFORE HE MUST BE TERRI-FUCKING-BLE." At this point in time, the entire team is underperforming, with the exception of fucking Maxim Lapierre. Numbers don't show that (BUT THE SEDINS HAVE SCORED GOOD NUMBER OF POINTS!!!!). In the Rangers game where we lost 4-0, the entire team got frustrated because we weren't scoring any points in the first two periods. If you could see how they played, we were taking so many chances that we normally would not have. The offense gets frustrated, we make mistakes and make costly defensive plays.

Please take a look at Luongo's numbers in the past 4 years. Take a look at his career playoff numbers. Then tell me that we shouldn't be paying a $5.33 million dollar cap hit for this kind of goalie.

There are a lot of terrible fringe and fairweather Canucks fans and especially writers right now. Get off the "Trade Luongo!" bandwagon.
 
You do realize that your numbers merely support my statement about opportunity cost? It's not just about money, it's about that he's been an incredible goalie that's having a very rough time in vancouver and a trade would probably benefit both sides greatly. Luongo can be traded for a player who has ~equally impressive past stats (for example, Lecavalier). Is losing the opportunity to have a player of that quality really worth keeping Luongo around?

In any event, that is a baseless assumption about whether or not I have watched the games, I'm sure you've seen them but obviously two people can interpret the games differently. Just for the record, I've watched almost every canucks game (I'm not a big fan, I just have Dan Sedin, Kesler, and Edler in fantasy hockey) and Luongo's playing like garbage. His current numbers show it, but I'm aware those aren't relevant unless he fails to improve them. However, we clearly have valid reasons to believe that he may not improve considering the last dozen games (including games 1-7 of the Stanley Cup final) have all been mostly despicable. He is very cocky and egotistic (as you can see by him claiming he would have saved shots that Thomas let in) and he hasn't been able to recover from his ego being destroyed by the finals. I'm not saying he can't get better and I'm not saying trading him is hands down the right decision. I am saying that in my opinion it might be a great opportunity to get another great player while Luongo's resume isn't (possibly) tarnished by more poor performances this season.

While certainly in that single game against NYR the whole team was not doing a good job, Luongo has still been playing terribly (he even admits it publicly) and if he does not get better Schneider is definitely capable being the No. 1 Goalie if they trade him for some other great player that will further help the team.

I'm not saying "boot him out of there", I'm saying they need to weigh the cost of keeping him vs the advantages of keeping him. So do the "non-bandwagoners" that have unconditional love for Luongo. It's fine to disagree with trading, but at least recognize the potential that there is for a great trade.

He's also a terrible guy.
 
For what it's worth, Luongo hasn't had an October where his GAA was under 2.9 and his SV% was over .907 since 2006. But this October's different, apparently.
 
Heysup said:
You do realize that your numbers merely support my statement about opportunity cost? It's not just about money, it's about that he's been an incredible goalie that's having a very rough time in vancouver and a trade would probably benefit both sides greatly. Luongo can be traded for a player who has ~equally impressive past stats (for example, Lecavalier). Is losing the opportunity to have a player of that quality really worth keeping Luongo around?

Rough time in Vancouver. Right. Being nominated for the Vezina and putting up elite goaltending numbers is definitely a rough time. You keep insisting that Luongo has been terrible here and has a rough time, and yet the numbers don't support that.

And Jesus, you keep spouting that Lecavalier rumour. The rumour wasn't even from a legitimate sports news source, or someone like Mckenzie; it was from the editorial, not from the spots section, but from the regular editorial in our newspaper. I don't even understand why they let that stupid editorial run in the first place. It was anonymous, and clearly done by someone who has no idea about how the dynamic works in the Canucks. We're already deep at centre; we have Sedin, Kesler, Malholtra, Hodgson and Lapierre. Why would we want to add an albatross of a contract for another center. Lecavalier is happy in Tampa Bay; he's raising his family there. The entire trade does not make sense.

In any event, that is a baseless assumption about whether or not I have watched the games, I'm sure you've seen them but obviously two people can interpret the games differently. Just for the record, I've watched almost every canucks game (I'm not a big fan, I just have Dan Sedin, Kesler, and Edler in fantasy hockey) and Luongo's playing like garbage. His current numbers show it, but I'm aware those aren't relevant unless he fails to improve them. However, we clearly have valid reasons to believe that he may not improve considering the last dozen games (including games 1-7 of the Stanley Cup final) have all been mostly despicable. He is very cocky and egotistic (as you can see by him claiming he would have saved shots that Thomas let in) and he hasn't been able to recover from his ego being destroyed by the finals. I'm not saying he can't get better and I'm not saying trading him is hands down the right decision. I am saying that in my opinion it might be a great opportunity to get another great player while Luongo's resume isn't (possibly) tarnished by more poor performances this season.

It's not a baseless assumption because Vancouver hasn't played Winnipeg yet, and you clearly have no idea how Vancouver has been doing this month, or how Luongo has been doing. Did you watch the New York Rangers game, or any other game where we lost? The entire team failed to capitalize on their chances and had defensive lapses in their game. Unless you're completely blind or you're making shit up, I don't see how you can continue to say Luongo has been oh so terrible.

Yes, using a sample of the Stanley Cup finals where the entire team was terrible as a whole, and the beginning of October where the team has ALSO been terrible, and Luongo has his slow starts is a great way to see his value.

Cocky and egotistical? You, like all the others in media, keep taking his words out of context. There is a clear difference in Thomas' and Luongo's style; Thomas plays out of the net, while Luongo stays in. Luongo merely pointed out that there are saves Thomas would make, which he could not, and saves that Luongo could make which Thomas could not, based on their styles.

You say it's your opinion. Your opinion is also poor, and illogical.

While certainly in that single game against NYR the whole team was not doing a good job, Luongo has still been playing terribly (he even admits it publicly) and if he does not get better Schneider is definitely capable being the No. 1 Goalie if they trade him for some other great player that will further help the team.

No I'm saying the entire team is still playing poorly in almost all their games. This is a fact. This is not deniable. Luongo has also been playing poorly, but when your offense fails to generate one goal in the first two periods where Luongo played very well, I don't pin the blame on Luongo for losing the game; I blame the offense.

And clearly you keep cherry picking your points. Go read the Yahoo blog that Carl posted. Schneider is not the god that you portray him to be.

I'm not saying "boot him out of there", I'm saying they need to weigh the cost of keeping him vs the advantages of keeping him. So do the "non-bandwagoners" that have unconditional love for Luongo. It's fine to disagree with trading, but at least recognize the potential that there is for a great trade.

The cost of keeping him here is clearly lower than trading him for some center that we don't need. Elite goaltenders don't grow on trees.

And unconditional? My point is that while Luongo has been playing poorly, the entire team has been playing poorly as well. And yet, people are saying "TRADE LUONGO," instead of "TRADE THE SEDINS," "TRADE BURROWS," etc etc.

There is no potential for any trade. No team will accept Luongo's contract, and the Canucks lose far more than they can ever gain from any trade with Luongo. You can keep telling yourself otherwise, but that's an undeniable fact.

He's also a terrible guy.

Did he murder your family or something? Do you have some sort of anti-boner against Luongo?
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Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
So angry.

Eraddd said:
Rough time in Vancouver. Right. Being nominated for the Vezina and putting up elite goaltending numbers is definitely a rough time. You keep insisting that Luongo has been terrible here and has a rough time, and yet the numbers don't support that.

And Jesus, you keep spouting that Lecavalier rumour. The rumour wasn't even from a legitimate sports news source, or someone like Mckenzie; it was from the editorial, not from the spots section, but from the regular editorial in our newspaper. I don't even understand why they let that stupid editorial run in the first place. It was anonymous, and clearly done by someone who has no idea about how the dynamic works in the Canucks. We're already deep at centre; we have Sedin, Kesler, Malholtra, Hodgson and Lapierre. Why would we want to add an albatross of a contract for another center. Lecavalier is happy in Tampa Bay; he's raising his family there. The entire trade does not make sense.
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And I think (/hope) you are confusing what I was saying. He was performing really well. Now he isn't. He's havinga rough time. Whether or not he's good, the fans aren't treating him well and he's not performing. Or is the booing a sign of appreciation?

Where did I say that they were going to trade for Lecavalier? I said "For example" just so that you would not respond like this but I guess that was kind of pointless. I do very much doubt the trade will happen but Lecavalier is a good example of the caliber of player Vancouver could get.
Eraddd said:
Unless you're completely blind or you're making shit up, I don't see how you can continue to say Luongo has been oh so terrible.
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Because clearly I'm the only one who thinks that.
Eraddd said:
Yes, using a sample of the Stanley Cup finals where the entire team was terrible as a whole, and the beginning of October where the team has ALSO been terrible, and Luongo has his slow starts is a great way to see his value.
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The team wasn't terrible, they weren't the same team as they usually were but they outshot Boston in some games that they lost if I recall correctly. Luongo was undeniably terrible, if he was not in the net Vancouver would have at least done better in Boston. I mean how could you even perform worse than Luongo in Boston?
Eraddd said:
Cocky and egotistical? You, like all the others in media, keep taking his words out of context. There is a clear difference in Thomas' and Luongo's style; Thomas plays out of the net, while Luongo stays in. Luongo merely pointed out that there are saves Thomas would make, which he could not, and saves that Luongo could make which Thomas could not, based on their styles.
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Hahahaha. Let me refresh your memory. Luongo claimed that he would have stopped that shot, and that the canucks need to take advantage of his goaltending faults (like coming farther out of the net than the average goalie to save certain shots). He didn't say anything that suggests he thought Thomas had over him. At all.
Eraddd said:
You say it's your opinion. Your opinion is also poor, and illogical.
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Yea dialectical reasoning is highly illogical when concerning trades. Luongo would probably say something similar to me and then let in 12 goals.
Eraddd said:
The cost of keeping him here is clearly lower than trading him for some center that we don't need. Elite goaltenders don't grow on trees.
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Why would you trade for a center? You said yourself you don't need a center. Just because you're strawmanning the scenario to be illogical does not mean that the scenario is in fact illogical. Why can't you trade for an elite offense/defense that would help more than Luongo is (which should be fairly easy as it stands right now)?

Eraddd said:
And unconditional? My point is that while Luongo has been playing poorly, the entire team has been playing poorly as well. And yet, people are saying "TRADE LUONGO," instead of "TRADE THE SEDINS," "TRADE BURROWS," etc etc.
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Cause and effect. Cause: Luongo is playing poorly. Effect: People don't think he's good.
Eraddd said:
There is no potential for any trade. No team will accept Luongo's contract, and the Canucks lose far more than they can ever gain from any trade with Luongo. You can keep telling yourself otherwise, but that's an undeniable fact.
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It's a wonderful world you live in where your ill-supported opinion is also fact.

And yes Luongo killed my family.
 
Heysup said:
So angry.


And I think (/hope) you are confusing what I was saying. He was performing really well. Now he isn't. He's havinga rough time. Whether or not he's good, the fans aren't treating him well and he's not performing. Or is the booing a sign of appreciation?

Carl put it perfectly; Luongo has not had a great October since 2006. Clearly we should have traded him those years too.

Where did I say that they were going to trade for Lecavalier? I said "For example" just so that you would not respond like this but I guess that was kind of pointless. I do very much doubt the trade will happen but Lecavalier is a good example of the caliber of player Vancouver could get.
Because clearly I'm the only one who thinks that.
The team wasn't terrible, they weren't the same team as they usually were but they outshot Boston in some games that they lost if I recall correctly. Luongo was undeniably terrible, if he was not in the net Vancouver would have at least done better in Boston. I mean how could you even perform worse than Luongo in Boston?

Your example was a terrible and ill-founded one. And then ironically, you accuse me of strawmanning when you used the Lecavalier trade as "a good example" for what a trade should look like for Luongo.

You're saying we can get a center who carries a 7 mil cap hit and yet fails to score more than the Sedins or Kesler, who carry a cap hit a million or two below him, for an elite goaltender who carries a cap hit 2 mils below Lecavalier's. Did you work for Milbury?

And lol@scoring 7 goals in 7 games isn't terrible. Outshooting the opponent means nothing if Boston is shutting down your top line.

Hahahaha. Let me refresh your memory. Luongo claimed that he would have stopped that shot, and that the canucks need to take advantage of his goaltending faults (like coming farther out of the net than the average goalie to save certain shots). He didn't say anything that suggests he thought Thomas had over him. At all.

There are novel concepts as "reading between the lines," that you can take cues from. Don't play stupid with me.

Yea dialectical reasoning is highly illogical when concerning trades. Luongo would probably say something similar to me and then let in 12 goals.

If you could ask any logical non-Canucks fan, they would say Luongo is untradeable due to his contract and the value that the Canucks see in him. No they may not say that he's an elite goaltender, but they will tell you Luongo is more valuable to his team as is, rather than being traded.

Why would you trade for a center? You said yourself you don't need a center. Just because you're strawmanning the scenario to be illogical does not mean that the scenario is in fact illogical. Why can't you trade for an elite offense/defense that would help more than Luongo is (which should be fairly easy as it stands right now)?

The fuck? You said yourself the Lecavalier trade is a good example of what a trade should look like. I'm telling you why it isn't. And suddenly I'm putting out a strawman.

And I've been telling you WHY that's impossible. My entire post outlined why Luongo cannot and will not be traded.

Also, do you take cues from Hfboards when proposing trades?

Cause and effect. Cause: Luongo is playing poorly. Effect: People don't think he's good.
It's a wonderful world you live in where your ill-supported opinion is also fact.

Causation does not imply correlation. Yes Luongo is playing poorly. However, the team as a whole is also playing poorly, which is the number one reason for the team not having a good October.

And yes Luongo killed my family.
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I really don't want to continue this conversation.
 
Fixing :

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Eraddd said:
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Chara+%28ESPN+Body+Mag%29.jpg

Wait I think I fucked up
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Yeah you did. Nobody is an Islander or Stars fan.

Already getting tired of Leaf fans counting their Stanley Cup rings before they've even played 15 games. It's fine to be optimistic about how good you've been playing, but let's wait for consistency.
 
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