The First Smogon Council - Salamence

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It's Mence's lack of any definitive counter, not it's typing, that made it rise. And is the reason why we are here now. It's not that Dragons overcentralize the game, it's that the CURRENT Dragons do.
This wouldn't even be a problem if Outrage wasn't upgraded to 120 power and Draco Meteor wasn't created. Dragon Claw and Pulse are no big deal, they reliably do decent damage to almost everything. Outrage and Draco Meteor reliably do severe damage to almost everything. Big difference. I wish we could just ban them instead, but then you get arguments starting like "Why can't Altaria still use it? It's not broken" and it gets too complicated.

Somewhat off-topic, B&W could add a new type to nerf DPP Dragon, Steel, or even Water, just like GSC added Dark and Steel to balance RBY Psychic.
 
Mamo's Ice shard vs mix mence 134.5% - 160.7%
vs DD Mence 142.6% - 170.4%

Weavile's ice shard vs mixmence 127.6% - 151.6%
vs DD Mence 135.3% - 160.7%

If that's not a definitive counter, I don't know what is.
 
Mamo's Ice shard vs mix mence 134.5% - 160.7%
vs DD Mence 142.6% - 170.4%

Weavile's ice shard vs mixmence 127.6% - 151.6%
vs DD Mence 135.3% - 160.7%

If that's not a definitive counter, I don't know what is.
lol I wasn't going to post in this thread but I've been following this thread and this has been argued in circles somewhere back on the 45 pages. The basic argument is Mamo and Weavile aren't very high in usage (check the usage stats) and they cannot take a hit, so they have to revenge kill it, by which time Salamence has done its job, and there are other Pokemon who can revenge kill (after LO recoil, SR, and Sandstorm) and have more utility outside of killing Salamence.
 

yond

mitt game strong
is a Past WCoP Champion
A Counter, to me and I assume to all, is a Pokemon that can effectively switch into a Pokemon on any occasion or circumstance safely while still being able to then either force the Pokemon to switch out or take the Pokemon out itself. As far as I can see there is nothing viable that can switch into MixMence and DD Mence all the time safely and then have enough to then get rid of it.
 
Mamo's Ice shard vs mix mence 134.5% - 160.7%
vs DD Mence 142.6% - 170.4%

Weavile's ice shard vs mixmence 127.6% - 151.6%
vs DD Mence 135.3% - 160.7%

If that's not a definitive counter, I don't know what is.
Mixmence Draco Meteor vs standard Mamoswine-110.0% - 129.6%

Mixmence Draco Meteor vs Weavile-106.8% - 126.0%

If that's not a definitive ass kicking on the switch, I don't know what is.
 
Somewhat off-topic, B&W could add a new type to nerf DPP Dragon, Steel, or even Water, just like GSC added Dark and Steel to balance RBY Psychic.
This is not to cut down your suggestion, but: Dragons were not supposed to be as balanced in the meta-game the way other types were. They were always supposed to be a "majestic" powerful type. That's why they were only given one weakness other than themselves.

I've found this holds true with most of the Dragon-types (barring Altaria, who blows goats compared to the real dragons): It's hard to switch into them. It's hard to switch into a Dragonite (not as hard but humor me for a second), who has an insane movepool and far more viable sets than the faster Salamence. Kingdra may not be as strong as the other two but takes neutral damage from everything but Dragon and still hits like a truck (think 8cylinder Dodge Ram to Salamence's Ford F-350 with the tubro-charged Deisel).

Dragon's were always, always, always supposed to be the best. Maybe some of them were too much the best for a balanced and diverse meta-game. Okay, some of them were. I'm guessing most people are still rather on the fence about whether Salamence is another part of that some.

I've spent a little more time on the Suspect ladder and I'm still seeing a lot of the same teams, plus or minus a few slots, rather than anything diverse. Other than the suddenly common Shaymins (who is adorable and I love seeing/using) I really have not noticed anything new breaking into the suspect ladder. I have seen less Cresselias than I expected to but, again, it doesn't seem to have opened the game up many more exciting possibilities that increase diversity at all.
 
And Mamoswine / Weavile switches easily into Salamence how?
keyword, focus sash. great way to screw someone over.

Don't even bring up SR into the debate because the average standard team runs a rapid spinner not to mention is so overly popular that everyone runs SR in there team, so by all means you can switch out or revenge it. To be be honest sallys aren't much of a threat unless one carries a yache berry, everyone is so focused on the most over used set for sallys that people over look the small things.
 
Well, today I have some time on my hands so I figured I would write something up to hopefully revitalize this thread. This post is going to be long but my goal in taking the time to write it is to stop the circle of dumbasses who are consistently saying the same things over and over again, because frankly, this thread needs to include some intelligent discussion for there to be any hope of a valid vote on Mence’s tiering. So, please read the whole post thoroughly before you post a smartass response to it that I already disproved in my argument.

I am of the opinion that Mence is indeed broken and should be Uber. I am going to outline why I have come to this decision, and also will show why the counterarguments to this position are utterly flawed, and often actually support the fact that Mence should be Uber. The first issue is the lack of reliable switch-ins against Mence, due to its unpredictability. When your opponent sends Mence in on your Scarftar’s EQ, what are you going to switch to, not knowing if Mence will DD up, DM your Hippo, Fire Blast your Skarm, or EQ your Tran? If you guess wrong, you lose a poke, and if you predict correctly, you either get 2HKO’d or Mence switches out to a reliable counter to what you just sent in, something you cannot do against him. This unpredictability has been mentioned numerous times, and each time the same responses have arisen:

1: “It’s obvious what set Mence is depending on what it switches in on.”
2: “Mence has to predict correctly too, not just me.”
3: “You make it seem like Mence chooses its next move through an RNG.”
4: “It’s not as hard as you make it out to be to predict against Mence.”

As for the first response, there’s a little thing called bluffing, which is a part of prediction. It allows you to force your opponent’s Swampert with your Zapdos, even though you don’t carry HP Grass. It’s hilarious when people think they’ve made some awesome prediction and switch in their Porygon2 on your “DD Mence” only to eat a Draco Meteor.

For the second, your statement is very correct. However, the punishment for a misprediction on Mence’s part is not nearly as severe as what you face. If you predict correctly, you take less damage. If Mence predicts correctly, you’re switch-in dies.

To the third, I say this: you had better assume this is the case, because with Mence your opponent is likely able to cause enough raw damage with any move they choose that it hardly matters what they pick. Being up against Mence is like Russian roulette with 4 bullets loaded, and if you get the other two a note pops out that says “spin again.”

Although the fourth is false, I would like it a lot if it was true, for the following reason, as stated by DougJust:

A pokemon may be uber if there is not an inverse relationship between its viability and predictability.
Going under the assumption that Mence is easy to predict, the fact that it is extremely viable as well proves that it is broken. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to predict against Mence. The way I think of it is if you imagine the above rule on a graph, there is not only the restriction that viability and predictability must be inverse, but also there should be a point at which a pokemon’s unpredictability and damage output combined is so great that it is too viable, to the point of being destructive, in the current metagame.

Another reason is Mence’s incredible stat distribution. Both its attacking stats are over 100, something that only 3 other OU’s can boast (but not really Ape, 4 Base Stat points doesn’t make a Huge difference.) Only 2 of these three pokes are able to outspeed Mence (before a DD) without a scarf, those being Azelf and Luke. What sets Mence far apart from these two in terms of attacking power is the amazing coverage Dragon STAB gives, as well as the presence of 120 and 140 BP STAB for Attack and SpAtk, respectively. Oh, and another thing: Mence has access to moves with 100 BP and over for a lot of types, boasting OQ, Fire Blast, and even Hydro Pump! In stark contrast, Azelf’s Pychic has very poor coverage as well as a comparitavely measly 90 BP (Zen Headbutt having a pathetic 80), whereas Luke has a 120 BP physical and special STAB. This sounds great if you put it that way, however it’s really only 90 for special, seeing as Focus Blast sucks. Also CC is coming off an attack stat of 110, 25 points away from Mence’s 135, which actually makes quite a difference, taking into account the lesser coverage provided by Fighting STAB. Common responses are something to the effect of the following:

1: “Base stats don’t matter as much as typing and/or movepool.”
2: “Why doesn’t this apply to D-Nite? It’s not like half of OU is between the two speed stats.”
3: “*Name of other Poke* has similar offensive stats, what makes them not broken?”

First, what keeps Smeargle, who has the best movepool in the game, from being broken? Stats. What keeps Spiritomb, who has no weaknesses (or Sableye for that matter) from being OU? Stats. Why is Feraligatr outclassed by Gyarados? Stats. Stats are probably the most defining factor in what decides the usefulness of a pokemon, although movepool and typing also have a great impact. Speaking of which, Mence has an amazing movepool and Dragon STAB, so there goes your argument.

As for the second, if you take a second look you will see that about 40% of OU is between Mence and Nite’s speed stats (including Mence’s fellow base 100’s and all the Rotom-A), not to mention Scarfers such as *too lazy to go check for sure.* Also, that one point in attack makes a huge difference (I’m kidding of course), and the 10 points in SpA do as well (not really.) Actually, it’s really just the speed and the fact that Mence outclasses Nite in just about every way but a supporting set. If mence is banned, Nite will not quite be able to replace it, but it will do its best.

Looking at the third, if you read my argument including Ape, Azelf, and Luke you would see the flaws in this position. Movepool and typing combined really do make a difference. Oh yeah, and Mence’s stats are significantly higher than just about whatever you mention. Let me give you some numbers:
Salamance has the second highest total offensive stats (Atk+SpA+Spe) in OU, (first being Azelf, who, quite frankly, is hardly useable offensively), sitting at a whopping 345, third place being Infernape at 316. Now here’s a question for you:

Is it healthy for a metagame to have a Pokemon with the second highest offensive stats, backed up by a movepool with such powerful and useful attacks that it can run either a Stat upping, Mixed, Banded, and Specs set to great effect, Intimidate, and 120 and 140 BP Dragon STAB from both sides of the spectrum?

If you have a genuine response that I have not mentioned however, I will be glad to hear you out.
 
Another reason is Mence’s incredible stat distribution. Both its attacking stats are over 100, something that only 3 other OU’s can boast (but not really Ape, 4 Base Stat points doesn’t make a Huge difference.) Only 2 of these three pokes are able to outspeed Mence (before a DD) without a scarf, those being Azelf and Luke. What sets Mence far apart from these two in terms of attacking power is the amazing coverage Dragon STAB gives, as well as the presence of 120 and 140 BP STAB for Attack and SpAtk, respectively. Oh, and another thing: Mence has access to moves with 100 BP and over for a lot of types, boasting OQ, Fire Blast, and even Hydro Pump! In stark contrast, Azelf’s Pychic has very poor coverage as well as a comparitavely measly 90 BP (Zen Headbutt having a pathetic 80), whereas Luke has a 120 BP physical and special STAB. This sounds great if you put it that way, however it’s really only 90 for special, seeing as Focus Blast sucks. Also CC is coming off an attack stat of 110, 25 points away from Mence’s 135, which actually makes quite a difference, taking into account the lesser coverage provided by Fighting STAB. Common responses are something to the effect of the following:

1: “Base stats don’t matter as much as typing and/or movepool.”
2: “Why doesn’t this apply to D-Nite? It’s not like half of OU is between the two speed stats.”
3: “*Name of other Poke* has similar offensive stats, what makes them not broken?”

First, what keeps Smeargle, who has the best movepool in the game, from being broken? Stats. What keeps Spiritomb, who has no weaknesses (or Sableye for that matter) from being OU? Stats. Why is Feraligatr outclassed by Gyarados? Stats. Stats are probably the most defining factor in what decides the usefulness of a pokemon, although movepool and typing also have a great impact. Speaking of which, Mence has an amazing movepool and Dragon STAB, so there goes your argument.

As for the second, if you take a second look you will see that about 40% of OU is between Mence and Nite’s speed stats (including Mence’s fellow base 100’s and all the Rotom-A), not to mention Scarfers such as *too lazy to go check for sure.* Also, that one point in attack makes a huge difference (I’m kidding of course), and the 10 points in SpA do as well (not really.) Actually, it’s really just the speed and the fact that Mence outclasses Nite in just about every way but a supporting set. If mence is banned, Nite will not quite be able to replace it, but it will do its best.

Looking at the third, if you read my argument including Ape, Azelf, and Luke you would see the flaws in this position. Movepool and typing combined really do make a difference. Oh yeah, and Mence’s stats are significantly higher than just about whatever you mention. Let me give you some numbers:
Salamance has the second highest total offensive stats (Atk+SpA+Spe) in OU, (first being Azelf, who, quite frankly, is hardly useable offensively), sitting at a whopping 345, third place being Infernape at 316. Now here’s a question for you:

Is it healthy for a metagame to have a Pokemon with the second highest offensive stats, backed up by a movepool with such powerful and useful attacks that it can run either a Stat upping, Mixed, Banded, and Specs set to great effect, Intimidate, and 120 and 140 BP Dragon STAB from both sides of the spectrum?

If your answer is anything other than “no,” I will ignore your post as you are obviously a dumbass who is contributing to the cycle that has killed this thread. If you have a genuine response that I have not mentioned however, I will be glad to hear you out. I hope this will put an end to the crap going on in this thread.
I'd say all your arguments for Salamence's prowess applies to Dragonite as well. And I believe we can all say that Dragonite, in the current meta, is NOT broken. I understand stats play a role in a mon's tier power but I wouldn't put TOO much emphasis on it as there are/is obvious exception(s).


keyword, focus sash. great way to screw someone over.

Don't even bring up SR into the debate because the average standard team runs a rapid spinner not to mention is so overly popular that everyone runs SR in there team, so by all means you can switch out or revenge it. To be be honest sallys aren't much of a threat unless one carries a yache berry, everyone is so focused on the most over used set for sallys that people over look the small things.
I strongly...STRONGLY disagree. The reason is, sorry to bring it up but I must, residual damage in general. First of all, rapid spinning is not as NEARLY as common as you claim it to be. It is no doubt a common as well as an effective battle strategy to get rid of things such as SR but it's not THAT common (starmie being the only spinner in the top 20 while forretress and tentacruel are below the top 30th...the latter being 42nd). Furthermore, with tyranitar being almost everywhere, sand storm will make fsash pretty useless. Sure you can use things like rain dance and sunny day to get rid of it but personally, I'd say it's a waste of a move slot for using the two moves for this purpose alone. All in all, I'd say sash is pretty useless unless it's used on a lead...specifically a suicide lead).
 
I'd say all your arguments for Salamence's prowess applies to Dragonite as well. And I believe we can all say that Dragonite, in the current meta, is NOT broken. I understand stats play a role in a mon's tier power but I wouldn't put TOO much emphasis on it as there are/is obvious exception(s).
Obvious Exceptions: Articuno, Moltres, Entei, etc.
 
Salamence IMO is an uber

Why Salamence is Uber

Ive played both suspect and Standard and i have to say that salamence under the conditions of the current metagame is uber. Here are the reason why.

Physical reason

If you think of the reason why latias was banned it was mainly of the specs set that does insane damage to everything. This is the same to salamence. Without a heavy amount of special defense investment and over 328 speed what ever switches in will be killed either by draco meteor + other move (if he runs new mix set).

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Flamethrower

this is important becasue with proper team support all of mence's "Counters" like jirachi ,swampert , scarfed pokemon, suicune, vaporeon (who run hp electric most of the time anyway) are completely useless to stop it. This makes mence almost impossible to stop if you dont have a 2 pokemon with either some serious speed or serious defenses. Not to mention the power to ever Ko this beast. Not to mention that he can be running this set.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break /earthquake / outrage
- Fire Blast
- Roost

holy shit he has recovery? yeah your totally fucked. Now he can recover off the stealth rock damage and continue to pummel your team. there are even some sets which run dragon dance and roost.

Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/180 Def/76 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake

Not only does this beast has massive attacking power that can sky rocket in 1 move he now has recover and excellent defenses with his stellar typing.

Im not even going to say that mence is uber casue of the predictions. Becasue its not hard to predict once you know its set. You can easily let it kill its self but it does take some skill to do that. And you do need to have the pokemon to do it. But then it has roost so whats the point. Which makes the metagame over-centralized around salamence.

Id like to bring to your attention a even more deadly set imo.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor

This is crazy. now we have two sets in one. We dragon dance and when a specially defensive whimp like gliscor comes around we fucking beat the shit out of it with STAB draco meteor. Then we finish the game off by killing everthing else that has no def ev's or hp ev's.

Mental reasons

I really would like mence to stay with us in standard but i think that mence takes out the creativity in the game. Im not a "super originality" person but i do like seeing intresting stuff on ladder that i might want to try. I don't understand why latias is uber first. latias has a ton of hard counters that made it fun to beat. Salamence just has nothing. I don't even know why people could not see it earlier. But i want to present 2 equations that may spark the readers interest.

STAB draco meteor + STAB outrage + good move pool + instant recovery + excellent typing + Dragon dance + intimidate + mix set capability = salamence to uber

STAB draco meteor + ok typing + Good move pool + instant recovery = latias to uber?


whats wrong with this picture. i really want to see those paragraphs.

To conclude i want to say that basically if you dont have stealth rocks up then your basically at the mercy of salamence the whole battle. This is why salamence is uber.
 
keyword, focus sash. great way to screw someone over.

Don't even bring up SR into the debate because the average standard team runs a rapid spinner not to mention is so overly popular that everyone runs SR in there team, so by all means you can switch out or revenge it. To be be honest sallys aren't much of a threat unless one carries a yache berry, everyone is so focused on the most over used set for sallys that people over look the small things.
Again with this ridiculous notion of how Mamoswine and Weavile with their Ice Shards are so good to counter/check Mence, smh.

You can't counter it unless a) there is no Sandstorm up and b) there are no rocks up on your side. If you're going to assume these are common battle conditions (which they are not, neither in OU nor suspect) then by that logic nothing is stopping Mence from switching out and coming back in later. Mence has plenty of checks, and your average steel type will get this done better than either of these (crappy) Ice Sharding pokes will, especially if Mence is locked into Outrage. since neither Weavile nor Mamo can counter Mence, and there are far better options for the check/revenge kill, using them is pointless.

EDIT: On a different note, I've been using ES over the fourth slot move (TBolt / Roost) on my MixNite in some Suspect matches, and it tends to work better for me - I usually scare something out and DM on the switch, and generally I'm finding that I don't have many chances to effectively use TBolt on a bulky water because of the SpA drop from DM. I don't really like Roost, since at least with my team, MixNite doesn't have many chances to heal itself, and I'm finding that Extremespeed has been useful for Dragonite to pick off weakened faster threats that it otherwise could not, or finish a KO on something that normally outspeeds it. Anyone else tried any other moves in fourth slot of the standard MixNite?
 
O really? Check back in the G/S metagame, I'm sure smogon did this with a pokemon beginning with M..... ;p

Oh Shaymin is effective on the standard ladder as well, I think with latias gone, it has done it favours
Good point. But I'm talking about Gen. 4. Misdreavus was a whole 'nother story, though.
 
keyword, focus sash. great way to screw someone over.

Don't even bring up SR into the debate because the average standard team runs a rapid spinner not to mention is so overly popular that everyone runs SR in there team, so by all means you can switch out or revenge it. To be be honest sallys aren't much of a threat unless one carries a yache berry, everyone is so focused on the most over used set for sallys that people over look the small things.

I agree completely with what "TehYoshi" said. Are you implying in this post ( your first post, in addition), that Stealth Rock has nothing to do with Weavile or Mamoswine. Doesn't that make all the valid Stealth-Rock arguments against Mence worthless, thus making him more pro-uber ( Nb: I'm not stating that he should or shouldn't be Uber).

If the "Average Standard Team", as you like to call it, I quote, "runs a rapid spinner", then why can't Salamence be regarded as part of this Standard Team with Rapid Spinning Support, using it to his advantage via switching out.

Another point about Focus Sash, Sandstorm as you undoubtedly know will get rid of it. If you have read most if not all of this thread as I have done; you will have noted that many people have included Sandstorm ( as well as Stealth Rock) in their argument for stating that Mence should stay where it is as there are simple, effective ways of dealing with it.

I am not in any way stating that their argument to include Sandstorm if wrong. The amount of Tyranitars appears to be falling; not surprisingly IMO with the departure of Latias, thus Scarf Tar is less required - Not to say that Tyranitar as a whole is not needed in this Metagame - it is and very much so.

So, ideally for an argument, you should indeed use the same conditions for both sides of the story. Just because Weavile and Mamoswine do not like Stealth Rock or Sandstorm ( despite the latter not effecting Mamoswine), you must then suggest as part of your argument, that Salamence's team is also running without Stealth Rock or Sandstorm in its way.

This makes your point rather counter-productive. So please, in the future, at least for the best of arguments, use a balanced approach to both sides. I'm not saying your input is not needed, it very much is. In my opinion, the greater number of people we get to post solid posts on this thread, the more chance we'll get what should be, the right decision regarding Mence's position in the Metagame now...

Or at least until Gen V comes out.
 
keyword, focus sash. great way to screw someone over.

Don't even bring up SR into the debate because the average standard team runs a rapid spinner not to mention is so overly popular that everyone runs SR in there team, so by all means you can switch out or revenge it. To be be honest sallys aren't much of a threat unless one carries a yache berry, everyone is so focused on the most over used set for sallys that people over look the small things.
Dunno what metagame you play, but spinning is quite weak in the current metagame because of the prevalence of Rotom formes. If you want to spin reliably, you need either a Tyranitar to Pursuit Rotom (nullifying your Sash), or a LO Starmie to blast it on the switch-in.
 
Salamence: Dragonite I need to talk to you
Dragonite: Okay?
Salamence: I believe that I will be going soon.
Dragonite: But WHY! They kicked chomp, the red-headed girl I liked (latias), and now you!
Salamence: I know it isn't fair. But I need you to replace me.
Dragonite: But your better at sweeping!
Salamence: But you have more bulk and don't keel over when you get ice beamed. Besides I think it is time for me to go to the stars! (if you see one falling please hope it isn't me)

This is pretty much what is happening.
 
just a question on the whole stealth rock argument, aren't there quite a bit of ubers who are 2-4x's weak to stealth rocks? like Ho-oh, Skymin, Rayquaza, Lugia, and Arceus(that is if anyone wants to run flying or ice arceus).
 
just a question on the whole stealth rock argument, aren't there quite a bit of ubers who are 2-4x's weak to stealth rocks? like Ho-oh, Skymin, Rayquaza, Lugia, and Arceus(that is if anyone wants to run flying or ice arceus).
Just like Salamence, Rayquaza and Shaymin are pretty fast so the stealth rock damage doesn't matter! Arceus and Lugia are bulky enough to loose 25% of their HP! Ho-Oh does have some problem. Salamence itself holds amazing speed just like Rayquaza! Salamence and Rayquaza are Pokemon that needs a free turn to set up! But with just one turn they can do some decent damage to the opponent's team! For example like a Choice Item holding Pokemon locked in to EQ!
 
Just like Salamence, Rayquaza and Shaymin are pretty fast so the stealth rock damage doesn't matter! Arceus and Lugia are bulky enough to loose 25% of their HP! Ho-Oh does have some problem. Salamence itself holds amazing speed just like Rayquaza! Salamence and Rayquaza are Pokemon that needs a free turn to set up! But with just one turn they can do some decent damage to the opponent's team! For example like a Choice Item holding Pokemon locked in to EQ!
this is exactly my point why i posted it! the whole point was that SR doesnt stop something from being a deadly, to strong for OU force. Im still split on mence, but i just wanted to make this point.
 
In case people haven't realized this, both sides of the argument are basically stuck on the interpretation of the same point. With Salamence, it ultimately comes down to prediction, and the stakes involved in the prediction automatically become very high. Some have said that this is enough to make it Uber. Others have said that this is fine in the OU metagame. So really the prediction thing doesn't help anybody's argument!
 
I'd say all your arguments for Salamence's prowess applies to Dragonite as well. And I believe we can all say that Dragonite, in the current meta, is NOT broken. I understand stats play a role in a mon's tier power but I wouldn't put TOO much emphasis on it as there are/is obvious exception(s).
I agree there are obvious exceptions to stats being the deciding factor in a poke's power, and I think I mentioned a few earlier. Azelf actually has a higher total of offensive stats than Mence does (and is actually the only OU that does), but it really doesn't work offensively, if you've ever tried it. I think this is mainly because of its lackluster offensive attacking options, and the fact that it is psychic type.

Obvious Exceptions: Articuno, Moltres, Entei, etc.
A few others. Stealth rock weaknesses really hurt, and also poor movepools often let down excellent stats. What is threatening about Mence is the culmination of all his assets, which I put together at the end of my last post in the form of a question:

Is it healthy for a metagame to have a Pokemon with the second highest offensive stats, backed up by a movepool with such powerful and useful attacks that it can run either a Stat upping, Mixed, Banded, and Specs set to great effect, Intimidate, and 120 and 140 BP Dragon STAB from both sides of the spectrum?
The things I left out here were what a lot of non-Uber supporters are saying, which is the SR weakness and getting worn down by SS, LO, etc. the reason I did this is that everything takes SR damage, some more than others, anything not immune to SS that doesn't carry lefties is also worn down by SS, and anything with a life orb won't be around long either. In this way, a lot of arguments from both sides could be used either way, including some in my question. The thing is though, nothing other than Mence has all the powerful assets mentioned in my question. As for Dragonite, all I really have to say is that those 20 points in speed really makes the difference, and the lower SpA doesn't help either.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
I used to run this set, but with Dragon Claw instead of Outrage, one of Mence's most effective sets, IMO, as he does all the setup for himself. This adds even further problems facing Mence, as even after he DD's up, you can't be confident in his set. I ran Dragon Claw because the point of this set is to maintain heavy offense on the opponent, and I did not like at all being forced to lock into Outrage without a few DD's whenever they sent in a Levitating foe or a Flier, only to have them send in their Gross.
 
I agree there are obvious exceptions to stats being the deciding factor in a poke's power, and I think I mentioned a few earlier. Azelf actually has a higher total of offensive stats than Mence does (and is actually the only OU that does), but it really doesn't work offensively, if you've ever tried it. I think this is mainly because of its lackluster offensive attacking options, and the fact that it is psychic type.
I agree with this, Psychic isn't the best type out there. I mean look at Cresselia! Salamence's devastating offensive is based on its great movepool and the dual typing in some situations! Of course Salamence's special ability supports this to a higher level! I'm not saying it has terrible stats! It does have decent/ better offensive stats than some other Pokemon for example Dragonite! Plus there are items such as Life Orb to support its offence! it does have X4 weakness to Ice But Ice types are also damages by Stealth Rock just like Salamence! Ice type are rarely used in the Metagame because of Stealth Rock and IMO Ice isn't the greatest type out there (no offence to any Ice fans here)! Not to mention the famous BP Scizor. Plus Salamence hits harder than any Ice type! It also has Fire moves to deal with Scizor!
 
I agree there are obvious exceptions to stats being the deciding factor in a poke's power, and I think I mentioned a few earlier. Azelf actually has a higher total of offensive stats than Mence does (and is actually the only OU that does), but it really doesn't work offensively, if you've ever tried it. I think this is mainly because of its lackluster offensive attacking options, and the fact that it is psychic type.
Legendary trios: 580 BST
Pseudolegendaries: 600 BST
Event Pixies: (Mew, Celebi, etc) 600 BST

Azelf is part of a legendary trio. Salamence is a pseudolegendary. I agree that base stats are only one factor in the equation. Moveset, ability, typing, and stat distribution all make big differences on the power of a Pokemon. Mew has the same BST as Shaymin, but is obviously a lot better.

Edit: Oh, my bad, you said offensive stats.
 
Legendary trios: 580 BST
Pseudolegendaries: 600 BST
Event Pixies: (Mew, Celebi, etc) 600 BST

Azelf is part of a legendary trio. Salamence is a pseudolegendary. I agree that base stats are only one factor in the equation. Moveset, ability, typing, and stat distribution all make big differences on the power of a Pokemon. Mew has the same BST as Shaymin, but is obviously a lot better.
Of course. You explained my point! Salamence is "dangerous" because of its moveset, ability, typing etc.!
 
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