Well, today I have some time on my hands so I figured I would write something up to hopefully revitalize this thread. This post is going to be long but my goal in taking the time to write it is to stop the circle of dumbasses who are consistently saying the same things over and over again, because frankly, this thread needs to include some intelligent discussion for there to be any hope of a valid vote on Mence’s tiering. So, please read the whole post thoroughly before you post a smartass response to it that I already disproved in my argument.
I am of the opinion that Mence is indeed broken and should be Uber. I am going to outline why I have come to this decision, and also will show why the counterarguments to this position are utterly flawed, and often actually support the fact that Mence should be Uber. The first issue is the lack of reliable switch-ins against Mence, due to its unpredictability. When your opponent sends Mence in on your Scarftar’s EQ, what are you going to switch to, not knowing if Mence will DD up, DM your Hippo, Fire Blast your Skarm, or EQ your Tran? If you guess wrong, you lose a poke, and if you predict correctly, you either get 2HKO’d or Mence switches out to a reliable counter to what you just sent in, something you cannot do against him. This unpredictability has been mentioned numerous times, and each time the same responses have arisen:
1:
“It’s obvious what set Mence is depending on what it switches in on.”
2:
“Mence has to predict correctly too, not just me.”
3:
“You make it seem like Mence chooses its next move through an RNG.”
4:
“It’s not as hard as you make it out to be to predict against Mence.”
As for the first response, there’s a little thing called bluffing, which is a part of prediction. It allows you to force your opponent’s Swampert with your Zapdos, even though you don’t carry HP Grass. It’s hilarious when people think they’ve made some awesome prediction and switch in their Porygon2 on your “DD Mence” only to eat a Draco Meteor.
For the second, your statement is very correct. However, the punishment for a misprediction on Mence’s part is not nearly as severe as what you face. If you predict correctly, you take less damage. If Mence predicts correctly, you’re switch-in dies.
To the third, I say this: you had better assume this is the case, because with Mence your opponent is likely able to cause enough raw damage with any move they choose that it hardly matters what they pick. Being up against Mence is like Russian roulette with 4 bullets loaded, and if you get the other two a note pops out that says “spin again.”
Although the fourth is false, I would like it a lot if it was true, for the following reason, as stated by DougJust:
A pokemon may be uber if there is not an inverse relationship between its viability and predictability.
Going under the assumption that Mence is easy to predict, the fact that it is extremely viable as well proves that it is broken. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to predict against Mence. The way I think of it is if you imagine the above rule on a graph, there is not only the restriction that viability and predictability must be inverse, but also there should be a point at which a pokemon’s unpredictability and damage output combined is so great that it is
too viable, to the point of being destructive, in the current metagame.
Another reason is Mence’s incredible stat distribution. Both its attacking stats are over 100, something that only 3 other OU’s can boast (but not really Ape, 4 Base Stat points doesn’t make a Huge difference.) Only 2 of these three pokes are able to outspeed Mence (before a DD) without a scarf, those being Azelf and Luke. What sets Mence far apart from these two in terms of attacking power is the amazing coverage Dragon STAB gives, as well as the presence of 120 and 140 BP STAB for Attack and SpAtk, respectively. Oh, and another thing: Mence has access to moves with 100 BP and over for a lot of types, boasting OQ, Fire Blast, and even Hydro Pump! In stark contrast, Azelf’s Pychic has very poor coverage as well as a comparitavely measly 90 BP (Zen Headbutt having a pathetic 80), whereas Luke has a 120 BP physical and special STAB. This sounds great if you put it that way, however it’s really only 90 for special, seeing as Focus Blast sucks. Also CC is coming off an attack stat of 110, 25 points away from Mence’s 135, which actually makes quite a difference, taking into account the lesser coverage provided by Fighting STAB. Common responses are something to the effect of the following:
1:
“Base stats don’t matter as much as typing and/or movepool.”
2:
“Why doesn’t this apply to D-Nite? It’s not like half of OU is between the two speed stats.”
3:
“*Name of other Poke* has similar offensive stats, what makes them not broken?”
First, what keeps Smeargle, who has the best movepool in the game, from being broken?
Stats. What keeps Spiritomb, who has no weaknesses (or Sableye for that matter) from being OU?
Stats. Why is Feraligatr outclassed by Gyarados?
Stats. Stats are probably the most defining factor in what decides the usefulness of a pokemon, although movepool and typing also have a great impact. Speaking of which, Mence has an amazing movepool and Dragon STAB, so there goes your argument.
As for the second, if you take a second look you will see that about 40% of OU is between Mence and Nite’s speed stats (including Mence’s fellow base 100’s and all the Rotom-A), not to mention Scarfers such as *too lazy to go check for sure.* Also, that one point in attack makes a huge difference (I’m kidding of course), and the 10 points in SpA do as well (not really.) Actually, it’s really just the speed and the fact that Mence outclasses Nite in just about every way but a supporting set. If mence is banned, Nite will not quite be able to replace it, but it will do its best.
Looking at the third, if you read my argument including Ape, Azelf, and Luke you would see the flaws in this position. Movepool and typing combined really do make a difference. Oh yeah, and Mence’s stats are significantly higher than just about whatever you mention. Let me give you some numbers:
Salamance has the second highest total offensive stats (Atk+SpA+Spe) in OU, (first being Azelf, who, quite frankly, is hardly useable offensively), sitting at a whopping
345, third place being Infernape at 316. Now here’s a question for you:
Is it healthy for a metagame to have a Pokemon with the second highest offensive stats, backed up by a movepool with such powerful and useful attacks that it can run either a Stat upping, Mixed, Banded, and Specs set to great effect, Intimidate, and 120 and 140 BP Dragon STAB from both sides of the spectrum?
If you have a genuine response that I have not mentioned however, I will be glad to hear you out.
