Sorry for double post, but I can't let this die, and I have to hear some of your thoughts on this.. Henderson has been released from UFC... Right before his fight with Marquardt... How does this happened? He just destroyed Bisping..
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The MMA/Boxing/Fighting Sports Thread
- Thread starter Commander Blue
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I want to say Sherdog.. or maybe it was Yahoo.
Yeah, like Trax said he's just in the contract-negotiating stage. All it means is that his old contract has been fullfilled and now they're working out the deal for the new one.
Lots of fighters fall into this category all the time.
Interesting note though, Henderson and the UFC haven't come to an agreement in quite some time now, and Henderson even mentioned he's willing to walk to Strikeforce if he doesn't get the deal he believes he deserves.
Lots of fighters fall into this category all the time.
Interesting note though, Henderson and the UFC haven't come to an agreement in quite some time now, and Henderson even mentioned he's willing to walk to Strikeforce if he doesn't get the deal he believes he deserves.
If by contract-negotiating stage you mean free agent, then yes. He's a free agent and if UFC doesn't make the offer he likes, he might actually leave.
However, I don't see how Strikeforce could even come close to matching any of UFC offers... Even if they do, it will be a big cost and other fighters would want more. And if they do get Henderson, who the hell is he going to fight? Haha.
However, I don't see how Strikeforce could even come close to matching any of UFC offers... Even if they do, it will be a big cost and other fighters would want more. And if they do get Henderson, who the hell is he going to fight? Haha.
I'm pretty sure Mousasi said he wanted to fight in 205 only from now on. Even if, after Mousasi then what? Sokoudjou? LOL. They literally only have these two.. And Hendo would have to move up. Again, Strikeforce can't provide for Hendo, neither money or the fights.
Strikeforce were able to offer Fedor a good deal, and I'm sure they're stronger financially than most people would suggest. Don't forget they're partnered up with DREAM, too. No need to mention the co-promoting thing concerning Fedor. And also the 5m a fight thing was total bullshit for anyone unaware. I recall reading an interview where Fedor said he'd be in the UFC today if the internet rumors were anywhere near the actual offer.
As for Henderson, he prefers fighting at 205. A fight with Mousasi would be fucking awesome. But yeah, apart from him there's not too much left for Hendo. I'm sure he'll retire soon anyways and that's probably the biggest reason the UFC isn't offering him what he wants. It's hard to promote a guy when he's going to be retiring in the near future.
This Saturday is gonna be fun though. :) Fedor by armbar in under 90 secs.
As for Henderson, he prefers fighting at 205. A fight with Mousasi would be fucking awesome. But yeah, apart from him there's not too much left for Hendo. I'm sure he'll retire soon anyways and that's probably the biggest reason the UFC isn't offering him what he wants. It's hard to promote a guy when he's going to be retiring in the near future.
This Saturday is gonna be fun though. :) Fedor by armbar in under 90 secs.
Only one of those guys that'd give Hendo a good fight (IMO) would be Mousasi. Jacare and Shields would both get slaughtered on the feet and neither would get Hendo to the ground with their own will. Oh yeah, neither can throw a punch worth shit lol.
Cung would get taken down and be made into Hendo's prison bitch for 3 rounds.
Cung would get taken down and be made into Hendo's prison bitch for 3 rounds.
Jacare could easily out point Hendo on the feet (not to mention he could always try pulling guard); unlike certain idiotic Brits, he isn't going to walk directly into the right hand of Hendo (especially when his corner is telling him to fucking well avoid it) -- Misaki did exactly that to Hendo in their rematch and won comfortably.
And personally I think Santiago would have a good chance as well.
I don't think any of those guys but Cung could really give him a run for his money. Plus, people wouldn't pay to see Hendo fight a lesser known fighter like Jacare and Shields.
To be honest, I want to see Fedor lose. I'm sick of all the BS of some people still calling him the pound for pound best fighter.
To be honest, I want to see Fedor lose. I'm sick of all the BS of some people still calling him the pound for pound best fighter.
How? How?! FEDOR HAS NOT FOUGHT ANYONE GREAT IN YEARS!!! He's beat what? Two washed up and out of prime UFC champs? Look at Fedor's last fights:
Win 30–1 (1)
ArlovskiAndrei Arlovski KO (Punch) Affliction: Day of Reckoning 02009-01-24 January 24, 2009 1 3:14 
Anaheim, California Defended WAMMA Heavyweight Championship
Win 29–1 (1) SylviaTim Sylvia Submission (Rear Naked Choke) Affliction: Banned 02008-07-19 July 19, 2008 1 0:36 Anaheim, California Won vacant WAMMA Heavyweight Championship
Win 28–1 (1)
ChoiHong-Man Choi Submission (Armbar) Yarennoka! 02007-12-31 December 31, 2007 1 1:54 
Saitama, Japan Win 27–1 (1) LindlandMatt Lindland Submission (Armbar) BodogFight - Clash of the Nations 02007-04-14 April 14, 2007 1 2:58 
St. Petersburg, Russia
Win 26–1 (1)
HuntMark Hunt Submission (Kimura) Pride Shockwave 2006 02006-12-31 December 31, 2006 1 8:16 Saitama, Japan Defended Pride Heavyweight Championship
Win 25–1 (1) Coleman 2Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar) Pride 32: The Real Deal 02006-10-21 October 21, 2006 2 1:16 Las Vegas, Nevada
Please.. Number one heavyweight, maybe. Number one pound for pound figher? No way in hell. Anderson Silva is much better.
Win 30–1 (1)
ArlovskiAndrei Arlovski KO (Punch) Affliction: Day of Reckoning 02009-01-24 January 24, 2009 1 3:14 
Anaheim, California Defended WAMMA Heavyweight Championship Win 29–1 (1)
SylviaTim Sylvia Submission (Rear Naked Choke) Affliction: Banned 02008-07-19 July 19, 2008 1 0:36 Anaheim, California Won vacant WAMMA Heavyweight Championship Win 28–1 (1)
ChoiHong-Man Choi Submission (Armbar) Yarennoka! 02007-12-31 December 31, 2007 1 1:54 
Saitama, Japan Win 27–1 (1) LindlandMatt Lindland Submission (Armbar) BodogFight - Clash of the Nations 02007-04-14 April 14, 2007 1 2:58 
St. Petersburg, Russia Win 26–1 (1)
HuntMark Hunt Submission (Kimura) Pride Shockwave 2006 02006-12-31 December 31, 2006 1 8:16 Saitama, Japan Defended Pride Heavyweight Championship Win 25–1 (1)
Coleman 2Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar) Pride 32: The Real Deal 02006-10-21 October 21, 2006 2 1:16 Las Vegas, NevadaPlease.. Number one heavyweight, maybe. Number one pound for pound figher? No way in hell. Anderson Silva is much better.
Even GSP doesn't rate GSP ahead of Fedor!
A quick objective look though.
Fedor has beaten #1 once (Big Nog), #2 Three times (Big Nog the second time, Cro Cop, Arlovski), #4 (Timmy). He has also beaten Hunt, Schilt and Herring who were considered top 5-15.
Anderson has beaten #2 twice (Franklin the first time, Hendo), #3 twice (Franklin the second time, Nate), and #4 (Forrest). He also holds wins over Leites and Cote who were considered top 5-10.
Lyoto has beaten #1 once (Rashad), #3 or #4 (Shogun) and #5 (I believe -- Ortiz). He has also beaten Thiago Silva who was considered top 5-10.
GSP has beaten #1 once (Hughes), #2 twice (Hughes on time 2, Fitch), #3 once (Alves). I have NFI where BJ Penn, Kos and Serra ranked, I'd say around 5. However he also has the Serra loss on his record, which hurts.
Fedor easily holds hands down better wins than anyone except GSP and Anderson, he also holds them with no embarrassing losses and has gone unbeaten for the better part of 10 years with that loss being due to a cut from an illegal strike.
Strange as it may sound I think Mike Thomas Brown might be closest to Fedor P4P -- #1 (Urijah), #2 (Faber the second time), #3 (Garcia), #4/5 (Curran) with no "bad" losses at FW (maybe Imanari, but hey, he subbed Gurgel in 35 seconds, the man is exceptional at leg locks).
However, his wins over Arlovski and Sylvia are when both were out of their prime.. They were dropped from UFC for a reason. Hence, why I argue his record is way less impressive. Anderson has destroyed his opponents when they are in their better stages of their career.
By the way, two of the sources that I somewhat agree with:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/sherdogcoms-pound-for-pound-top-10-19046
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_y...slug=dd-mmarankings102909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
By the way, two of the sources that I somewhat agree with:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/sherdogcoms-pound-for-pound-top-10-19046
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_y...slug=dd-mmarankings102909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
So on your list why is GSP's loss to Serra notable but Silva's losses arent.
I'd even consider Serra a better fighter than Ryo Chonan.
Patrick Côté is my boy and I've never seen him in any top 10 and nobody should have ever put Thales Leites in a top 5 simply for his fluke victory over Nate.
And the reason wasn't that they weren't in their prime anymore.
Sylvia was released after a UFC championship title shot. You don't usually give a title shot to someone you think is washed up. Moreover, Sylvia was never a big draw, they wouldn't have him there to sell the PPV.
Pretty sure they tried to sign Arlovski again which would have included a title shot in his next fight. At the time, he was the only HW that seemed rightfully in line for a shot.
Andrei got frozen out of his contract (essentially because his fights were boring but he was winning them, so they couldn't use him as a stepping stone) and was bringing a 5 fight winning streak (3 of which were in the UFC) into that fight, Dana White was saying before the fight that he was upset about losing Andrei and had gone to his house with Lorenzo to try and get him to sign with the UFC again but Andrei felt slighted about being frozen out and wouldn't sign with them.
Timmy wasn't so much out of his prime as a guy who was never in the same league as Fedor -- with his amazing 3 top 10 wins ever (including the Ricco win, which he was no doubt juicing for and the scared version of Arlovski that showed up to the third fight).
If you want to discount these guys, we can, but I'm going to discount Forrest (like Timmy, only lost title fights coming in, the only difference is at least Timmy seemed to have a chance with Nog beyond pillow fisting him to death) and Henderson (coming in at 2-2 in his last 4, which is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Timmy or Andrei when you consider the Misaki loss) from Andersons list.
I read the two P4P rankings you listed and my thoughts are as follows:
1. What the fuck is Rampage doing in the top 10 P4P (Sherdog)
2. How the hell is BJ fucking Penn above Lyoto or Mike Brown (Yahoo)
3. Torres above Bowles: WHAT THE FUCK? (Yahoo)
Vin: I don't note the Chonan loss because it was 5 years ago and there has plainly been a change in Andersons skills since then -- he's markedly improved since switching his camp to Black House. I consider the Serra loss more "flukey" (Chonan was probably beating Anderson for the entire fight, for those who haven't seen it in full) but it was a lot more recent and I don't see Georges as having really improved since then.
My basic criteria for P4P rankings:
- Success in your weight class
- Losses
- Overall dominance in your division
Basically; Fedor has owned his division for SIX freaking years, Anderson/GSP are pushing 3 right now -- Fedor hasn't lost in 9 years (and with 1 lone exception, has never even looked close to losing), Anderson and GSP have both lost since 04.
The way I see it is that P4P rankings should be based on fighters' recent matches, not their entire career. So counting shit like Serra or Chonan is hardly relevant when we're arguing for who is the best fighter TODAY.
With that in mind:
-GSP-recent wins over Alves, BJ Penn, Fitch
-Fedor-Rogers lol, Arlovski, Timmy
-Silva-Griffin, Leites, Cote
To me the results from the last few fights are much more important than what the fuck happened years ago. People improve every day and my P4P lists are the fighters that are the most dominant TODAY, so having losses on your record isn't that important unless it's very recent. Honestly, who cares that GSP got TKOd by Serra when every person on the planet knows GSP is 100x the fighter. Not only that but he clearly proved it.
My top 3 would be:
1. GSP
2. Fedor
3. Silva
If we're talking about guys with the best careers then I'd say Fedor is easily number 1 with everyone else quite a bit behind. Not only that, but it's hard to argue that there's a man in the world that could kick Fedor's ass. :)
With that in mind:
-GSP-recent wins over Alves, BJ Penn, Fitch
-Fedor-Rogers lol, Arlovski, Timmy
-Silva-Griffin, Leites, Cote
To me the results from the last few fights are much more important than what the fuck happened years ago. People improve every day and my P4P lists are the fighters that are the most dominant TODAY, so having losses on your record isn't that important unless it's very recent. Honestly, who cares that GSP got TKOd by Serra when every person on the planet knows GSP is 100x the fighter. Not only that but he clearly proved it.
My top 3 would be:
1. GSP
2. Fedor
3. Silva
If we're talking about guys with the best careers then I'd say Fedor is easily number 1 with everyone else quite a bit behind. Not only that, but it's hard to argue that there's a man in the world that could kick Fedor's ass. :)
I wouldn't say Fedor has owned his division. Especially when he has been fighting the lower quality of fighters these last two years.
On the other hand, Silva is fighting the best in their best stage. Put weight aside, and honestly judge their stand-up, Silva would destroy Fedor standing up. And on the ground, as good as Fedor's Sambo is and his ground game, Silva's BJJ is on top.
I realize I won't be changing anyone's minds. Hence why I won't go into deeper discussion. My ending comment will be that I won't give Fedor any props until he steps into the UFC and fights top caliber opponents.
On the other hand, Silva is fighting the best in their best stage. Put weight aside, and honestly judge their stand-up, Silva would destroy Fedor standing up. And on the ground, as good as Fedor's Sambo is and his ground game, Silva's BJJ is on top.
I realize I won't be changing anyone's minds. Hence why I won't go into deeper discussion. My ending comment will be that I won't give Fedor any props until he steps into the UFC and fights top caliber opponents.
Dude you realize he's been fighting top level opponents, right?
It wasn't until PRIDE was sold that the UFC could even say they had the best HW division.
Also, you're kidding if you think Silva's BJJ is even comparable to Fedor's Sambo. Nog couldn't do shit to Fedor, sub attempt after sub attempt, and Nog is Silvas BJJ teacher basically.
In the stand up game Silva's much more technical but Fedor outstruck even Crocop who was considered the best striker in MMA when they fought. If they ever fought (Silva v. Fedor) Fedor would get the fight to the ground, and win by arm bar/kimura I'm almost certain.
BTW Fedor tooled an Olympic Judo guy, a silver medalist in wrestling in the Olympics, other great wrestlers, arguably the best BJJ HW yet (Nog.)...twice, catch wrestlers, pretty much everybody, all on the ground. Not only that but he'd been crowned Russia's national Sambo champ, and world Sambo champ on several occassions. He's also done well in Judo competitions.
The ground is Fedor's backyard. There's not a man alive that could beat him there I'm 99.9% sure and even if someone managed to get a sub in on Fedor I doubt the man would tap.
Silva's build and style is suited for stand-up fighting. Not that it takes anything away from him, but the ground isn't where Silva wants to be when he fights.
Any good grappler can outwrestle Silva, but the problem is closing the distance, and that's where Silva shines.
It wasn't until PRIDE was sold that the UFC could even say they had the best HW division.
Also, you're kidding if you think Silva's BJJ is even comparable to Fedor's Sambo. Nog couldn't do shit to Fedor, sub attempt after sub attempt, and Nog is Silvas BJJ teacher basically.
In the stand up game Silva's much more technical but Fedor outstruck even Crocop who was considered the best striker in MMA when they fought. If they ever fought (Silva v. Fedor) Fedor would get the fight to the ground, and win by arm bar/kimura I'm almost certain.
BTW Fedor tooled an Olympic Judo guy, a silver medalist in wrestling in the Olympics, other great wrestlers, arguably the best BJJ HW yet (Nog.)...twice, catch wrestlers, pretty much everybody, all on the ground. Not only that but he'd been crowned Russia's national Sambo champ, and world Sambo champ on several occassions. He's also done well in Judo competitions.
The ground is Fedor's backyard. There's not a man alive that could beat him there I'm 99.9% sure and even if someone managed to get a sub in on Fedor I doubt the man would tap.
Silva's build and style is suited for stand-up fighting. Not that it takes anything away from him, but the ground isn't where Silva wants to be when he fights.
Any good grappler can outwrestle Silva, but the problem is closing the distance, and that's where Silva shines.
No love for Mike Thomas Brown?
Faber x2, Garcia and Curran in his last 4 is pretty hardcore.
elett, I'm not sure who these magical better fighters Fedor was supposed to fight in the UFc are, be real - the only fight anyone cares about for Fedor in the UFC is Lesnar (and a couple of the prospects in the future such as Cain, Dos Santos and Duffee). Lets be reasonable for a minute here. Also, Anderson is at most 15 pounds smaller than Fedor.
Arlovski > Werdum > Gonzaga
Carwin (who is fighting Lesnar for the belt next) > Gonzaga
Arlovski is as reasonable a fight as Carwin (at the very least), so are Werdum, Barnett, Rogers, Antonio Silva and Overeem.
Anybody else as fucking hyped to see Fedor in action?????????
I've been telling casual UFC fans (kids in school) all week to watch this shit on Saturday. I wish the man had more recognition, but oh well.
It's sad the best fighter of our time is going to be forgotten through the ages by the majority.
I've been telling casual UFC fans (kids in school) all week to watch this shit on Saturday. I wish the man had more recognition, but oh well.
It's sad the best fighter of our time is going to be forgotten through the ages by the majority.