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The MMA/Boxing/Fighting Sports Thread
- Thread starter Commander Blue
- Start date
Glad to see more mma talk on Smogon. ;)
OK then. Anyone else here think UFC95 is a complete joke? Seriously what the fuck. Stevenson vs Sanchez is a UFC fight night main event at best. This seems like a last minute scramble for a decent fight card and it's horrible. Other than seeing Stevenson get destroyed by another decent competitor, and seeing Demian Maia submit another nobody, this isn't worth watching at all.
Before anyone comments on the Stevenson thing, please go and watch some of his fights. He gets destroyed by every good competitor and I doubt he'll ever come close to winning a title shot again. Kenny Florian has a great chance at beating BJ for the belt but Stevenson isn't even close to the calibur of Florian.
Stevenson's going to lose by either TKO or 27-30 decision.
Speaking of 155's, I really miss watching Roger Huerta fight and am I the only one who thinks Clay Guida is fucking overrated? He basically hugged Diaz for 3 rounds to get the decision. I can't wait to see someone just punish this dude.
BTW I find it funny that at one point Thiago Alvez(s)? was considered THE smallest fighter in the UFC and he couldn't even make weight vs Matt Hughes at 170. Oh yeh, the drugs they found in his system (which hide steroids from showing up on tests) dont help his reputation in my eyes.
My predictions for 2009:
Lesnar will retain the title against Mir and eventually lose it to Cain Velasquez or Gonzaga, and then these two will face off in a pretty badass fight.
Evans will lose his belt to Machida/Jackson and that'll lead to an amazing fight. Jackson v. Machida I think would really show what Machida brings to the table. He's beaten up some good guys but I want to see him fight someone as powerful and surprisingly versitile as Rampage. What I mean by that is that Rampage used to be a wrestler and now he can knock out anybody at 205 today. He isn't going to get taken down easily at all and I highly doubt Machida could stop a shot from Rampage. Can't make a prediction on this lol I love both guys.
Evans will lose the belt as I mentioned. He's good but not that good. He basically lost to Tito Ortiz (Tito had a point taken off for grabbing fence) and IMO he lost a decision to Jardine which he somehow won by split decision. He was losing to Griffin until he pulledo off the knockout and he barely beat Michael Bisping in a decision win.
I'm thinking the UFC might sign Cung Lee which and Demian Maia will have some success. I think the person who's going to beat Anderson Silva is going to be a GnP guy. I don't see anyone knocking him out but he can be taken down and I think Henderson has the ability to pull it off.
I don't see GSP losing anytime soon even though the KO from Matt Sera keeps me unsure of him sometimes.
Jon Fitch will fight and destroy Thiago Alves (I hope) and we'll get to see GSP v. Fitch 2.
As for 155 we'll have to see what BJ's beating from GSP did to his mindset. I think Florian can take the belt from him.
As for Affliction I think Vitor Belfort will have some success and Fedor vs Barnet will be pretty exciting. (it's bound to happen Vineon) :P
I need to get back to my homework lol I'll post some more later.
Oh yeh I got to watch Cain Velasquez beat up a fellow Bosnian the other day. I knew it was going to happen but it was kinda sad. Then again, if you come into a mma fight some with someone like Velasquez, you better be in fucking shape. Watching a Brazilian guy beat up a human watermelon was entertaining though lol.
OK then. Anyone else here think UFC95 is a complete joke? Seriously what the fuck. Stevenson vs Sanchez is a UFC fight night main event at best. This seems like a last minute scramble for a decent fight card and it's horrible. Other than seeing Stevenson get destroyed by another decent competitor, and seeing Demian Maia submit another nobody, this isn't worth watching at all.
Before anyone comments on the Stevenson thing, please go and watch some of his fights. He gets destroyed by every good competitor and I doubt he'll ever come close to winning a title shot again. Kenny Florian has a great chance at beating BJ for the belt but Stevenson isn't even close to the calibur of Florian.
Stevenson's going to lose by either TKO or 27-30 decision.
Speaking of 155's, I really miss watching Roger Huerta fight and am I the only one who thinks Clay Guida is fucking overrated? He basically hugged Diaz for 3 rounds to get the decision. I can't wait to see someone just punish this dude.
BTW I find it funny that at one point Thiago Alvez(s)? was considered THE smallest fighter in the UFC and he couldn't even make weight vs Matt Hughes at 170. Oh yeh, the drugs they found in his system (which hide steroids from showing up on tests) dont help his reputation in my eyes.
My predictions for 2009:
Lesnar will retain the title against Mir and eventually lose it to Cain Velasquez or Gonzaga, and then these two will face off in a pretty badass fight.
Evans will lose his belt to Machida/Jackson and that'll lead to an amazing fight. Jackson v. Machida I think would really show what Machida brings to the table. He's beaten up some good guys but I want to see him fight someone as powerful and surprisingly versitile as Rampage. What I mean by that is that Rampage used to be a wrestler and now he can knock out anybody at 205 today. He isn't going to get taken down easily at all and I highly doubt Machida could stop a shot from Rampage. Can't make a prediction on this lol I love both guys.
Evans will lose the belt as I mentioned. He's good but not that good. He basically lost to Tito Ortiz (Tito had a point taken off for grabbing fence) and IMO he lost a decision to Jardine which he somehow won by split decision. He was losing to Griffin until he pulledo off the knockout and he barely beat Michael Bisping in a decision win.
I'm thinking the UFC might sign Cung Lee which and Demian Maia will have some success. I think the person who's going to beat Anderson Silva is going to be a GnP guy. I don't see anyone knocking him out but he can be taken down and I think Henderson has the ability to pull it off.
I don't see GSP losing anytime soon even though the KO from Matt Sera keeps me unsure of him sometimes.
Jon Fitch will fight and destroy Thiago Alves (I hope) and we'll get to see GSP v. Fitch 2.
As for 155 we'll have to see what BJ's beating from GSP did to his mindset. I think Florian can take the belt from him.
As for Affliction I think Vitor Belfort will have some success and Fedor vs Barnet will be pretty exciting. (it's bound to happen Vineon) :P
I need to get back to my homework lol I'll post some more later.
Oh yeh I got to watch Cain Velasquez beat up a fellow Bosnian the other day. I knew it was going to happen but it was kinda sad. Then again, if you come into a mma fight some with someone like Velasquez, you better be in fucking shape. Watching a Brazilian guy beat up a human watermelon was entertaining though lol.
Cain is an American born Mexican.
Anyway UFC95 looks a bit strange, it seems like they're struggling to find big names for the card (96/97/98 look pretty stacked, especially 97), that doesn't mean it's not going to be worth watching.
The fact they're putting Junior dos Santos against a guy who is.. freaking massive.. is a bit surprising to me, guess we'd get to see what Junior is made of, except the fight is on the damn prelim card and "may not be broadcast", speaking of Junior, is it just me or does he remind anyone else of Antônio Rogério Nogueira (except 30 pounds heavier)?
Be fair, it is not a PPV. I love free events on TV even if the cards are 'weaker'. No huge name does not necessairly mean no good fight.
Sonnen isn't exactly a nobody, but I don't expect Maia to have any trouble with him. Moreover, Sonnen's been yapping his mouth saying he is better than Anderson Silva so I'll enjoy Maia putting him back to his place.
Diego indeed shouldn't have any trouble dispatching Stevenson, sadly.
I think Nate Marquardt is the clear best middleweight below Silva and much before anyone else, which includes Franklin and Hendo. I'd prefer seeing him get a rematch.
Sonnen isn't exactly a nobody, but I don't expect Maia to have any trouble with him. Moreover, Sonnen's been yapping his mouth saying he is better than Anderson Silva so I'll enjoy Maia putting him back to his place.
Diego indeed shouldn't have any trouble dispatching Stevenson, sadly.
I think Nate Marquardt is the clear best middleweight below Silva and much before anyone else, which includes Franklin and Hendo. I'd prefer seeing him get a rematch.
silva is so boss
Hahah sorry I guess I'm just so used to seeing the Brazilians dominate. Didn't mean to stereotype or anything. Should have looked that up lol.
I'm not so sure about Marquardt being the 2nd best 185er in the UFC. Thales Leites, Henderson, and Franklin would all be a pain in the ass for Marquardt. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Leites beat Nate at UFC 85.
Nate already kicked Thales's ass and the only reason he lost that fight is because he got several points taken away from him. He demolished him.
By looking at the record you will see Thales with the win, anyone that watched the fight however, including the judges had Nate win.... before the two point deductions.. those obviously made a huge difference. All Thales could get from it was a split decision. Moreover, he lost to Kampmann who Nate just destroyed.
Watch the Leites - Marquardt fight and come back to me. Yes he deserved all those deducations but it was still pretty obvious who was the better fighter. Leites is hardly a top 10 talent in my book.
Uh what? If this was street fighting and not a sport then yeah sure. Kneeing someone to the head and elbows to the back of the head hardly count as playing by the rules. I dont have any doubts in Nate's abilities but rules are there for a reason. No one can tell for sure how hurt Leites was after getting kneed in his face because he looked like he was fighting Herb Dean for a second there. Honestly, I'm surprised Nate wasn't dq'ed.
Either way Leites is fighting Silva for the belt while Nate gets to walk over an average fighter. I think it's obvious who moved up from that fight.
"Uh what?????????????"
Uh what I said. Do you need this very obnoxious introduction to reply to something I've said?
It pretty much is a DQ when 2 points are taken away if you don't manage to finish.
Like I said, Nate deserved the point deductions but I believe he still would have easily won the fight without them (and without the knee). I have no doubt Marquardt would win a rematch. Thales Leites shouldn't even be ranked as a top 10 fighter; he isn't one. He poses no threat to Silva and will (likely) be easily dispatched.
The reason he is getting Anderson is pretty much because everybody else already got him. I am fine with him getting a title shot, but he did get it as a result of a fight he in my opinion normally would have lost. He is still below Marquardt, Franklin, Hendo & Maia. I think even Bisping would beat him. The only 2 quality fighters he faced were Kampmann and Marquardt. He lost to one and would normally have lost to the other.
Uh what I said. Do you need this very obnoxious introduction to reply to something I've said?
It pretty much is a DQ when 2 points are taken away if you don't manage to finish.
Like I said, Nate deserved the point deductions but I believe he still would have easily won the fight without them (and without the knee). I have no doubt Marquardt would win a rematch. Thales Leites shouldn't even be ranked as a top 10 fighter; he isn't one. He poses no threat to Silva and will (likely) be easily dispatched.
The reason he is getting Anderson is pretty much because everybody else already got him. I am fine with him getting a title shot, but he did get it as a result of a fight he in my opinion normally would have lost. He is still below Marquardt, Franklin, Hendo & Maia. I think even Bisping would beat him. The only 2 quality fighters he faced were Kampmann and Marquardt. He lost to one and would normally have lost to the other.
Yeah so to change subjects slightly
After a shitload of success and improvement in my game after my working way through Mastering the Rubber Guard by Eddie Bravo I want to read more BJJ books. I don't do MMA, so I'm hesitant to go for BJ Penn's Book of Knowledge, though I hear it's quite excellent...and I do like no-gi more than gi so perhaps I should reconsider.
So any book recommendations from the BJJ students out there?
p.s. I can't recommend Mastering the Rubber Guard too much if you've got the flexibility to pull it off easily. The only thing I don't like about it is the inclusion of some "submissions" which do nothing but inflict a shitload of pain without possibility of actually injuring the person (e.g. Invisible Collar). In a tournament or real-life situation your opponent simply will endure the pain, making them pretty worthless. They're so easy to pull off I reach for them sometimes when I'm tired or feel the ego-induced need to get a tap, but then I wish I had tried something else instead. I wish I could unlearn them.
After a shitload of success and improvement in my game after my working way through Mastering the Rubber Guard by Eddie Bravo I want to read more BJJ books. I don't do MMA, so I'm hesitant to go for BJ Penn's Book of Knowledge, though I hear it's quite excellent...and I do like no-gi more than gi so perhaps I should reconsider.
So any book recommendations from the BJJ students out there?
p.s. I can't recommend Mastering the Rubber Guard too much if you've got the flexibility to pull it off easily. The only thing I don't like about it is the inclusion of some "submissions" which do nothing but inflict a shitload of pain without possibility of actually injuring the person (e.g. Invisible Collar). In a tournament or real-life situation your opponent simply will endure the pain, making them pretty worthless. They're so easy to pull off I reach for them sometimes when I'm tired or feel the ego-induced need to get a tap, but then I wish I had tried something else instead. I wish I could unlearn them.
Didn't realize me saying, "Uh what?" would bother you that much. Not that I really care.
Anyhow I agree with pretty much everything else you said except the part where you said Leites hasn't beaten any good opponents. Anyone that can choke out Drew McFedries is a fairly good fighter imo. Also note that it was announced he'd fight Silva for the title after he beat McFedries, not the Marquardt fight.
I don't know about you but for me the 185lb division seems like the weakest at the moment. At least for the UFC, that is. It could be because of Silva but I'm just speculating. ;)
To be honest that's kind of a testament for how weak the 185 division is. Seems to me like Anderson Silva's really cleaning out 185. Silva vs. Marquardt actually sounds like the best fight at 185 and Silva v. Henderson 2 sounds good to me as well. Heh so in a way you're right.
Franklin's not going to be fighting Silva anytime soon, and quite frankly I wouldn't either if I were him.
If anything some of the weaker 205ers should drop down to 185 and take advantage imo. Anderson Silva vs Wanderlei Silva would be fucking amazing imo but I doubt Wandy has it in him to even get a title shot at A. Silva. I would however like to see if Wanderlei could hang with Henderson at least one more time.
On a side note, I kinda want to talk about rankings. I mention ranks all of the time but they're kind of gimmicky to be honest.
Here's your typical UFC rankings for a division. (UFC not any other mma organization)
1.Champ
2.Next in line for title shot
3.Guy who might be getting a title shot
4. see 3.
5-1000000000000-popularity contest.
Mexicans tend to do decently; just off the top of my head, Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock are both Mexican..
that early stoppage really sucked for Koscheck...
I think the ref was simply fooled by Paulo Thiago's reaction, who thought Josh was done. It looked to me as if Josh quickly assumed a defensive position after being knocked down and could have defended well.
Lots of early finishes, they managed to televise all the fights.
Maia's sub game looks unstoppable.
I think the ref was simply fooled by Paulo Thiago's reaction, who thought Josh was done. It looked to me as if Josh quickly assumed a defensive position after being knocked down and could have defended well.
Lots of early finishes, they managed to televise all the fights.
Maia's sub game looks unstoppable.
Just to mention something I've been pissed about. How is Rampage getting a title shot already? Personally, I believe Machida deserves it. Or at least have Rampage(if he wins against Jardine) fight Machida for the title shot.
*sigh* This is what Dana White does. Who ever brings in more money gets a title shot.
*sigh* This is what Dana White does. Who ever brings in more money gets a title shot.
Because Machida has beaten 2 people of any note recently: Tito Ortiz, who was sick of fighting for the UFC when they met, so I doubt he was 100% (as an aside this fight also showed how weak Machida was on the ground, Tito damn near subbed him - Tito has a horrible sub game), and Thiago Silva.
Rampage had beaten Matt Lindland, Chuck Liddell, and Dan Henderson before a close loss to Forrest which he came back from by KOing Wanderlei.
I'd say Rampage should be having a shot first, at least assuming he beats Jardine, Lyoto really needs 1 more good fight - a win over a Henderson or Franklin (I'd say Griffin, but he's out for a while) would definitely cement him.
Rampage just lost recently. So two wins is enough to get you another title shot? You're telling me money has no influence on Dana White? Please. Machida is 14-0! Beating names like Silva, Ortiz, and Sokoudjou. If anything Machida and Rampage should fight for the title shot. What happens if Jardine wins? HE GETS A TITLE SHOT? Please, he's lost to Wanderlei and and Alexander. He's too inconsistent and doesn't deserve a title shot either. How many fights do you have to win before getting a title shot? And it's not like he's been avoiding big names. He ALWAYS says he wants to fight the best and think he deserves the best.
Frank Mir's inconsistent. Does that mean he shouldn't get a title shot at Lesnar?
Thales Leites is inconsistent. Does that mean he shouldn't get a shot at Anderson Silva?
Anyhow the point is it's all about timing. Winner of Rampage v. Jardine is going to fight Evans next it appears. If Rampage/Jardine has to fight Machida that would take even longer to set up a 205 title fight. I don't think anyone wants to wait that long to see Evans defend his belt.
Besides, I'd rather see Jackson meet Machida in a 5 round fight. Personally I'm not sold on Machida just yet though. 14-0 is amazing but I'll be impressed if Machida can stay undefeated once he starts beating guys like Rampage, Griffin, Shogun (yes I said Shogun), Evans, etc. Only guy that Machida finished that really impressed me so far was Rich Franklin. Sokoudjou hardly counts as a big fight, but I'll admit I was amused by the way he frustrated Ortiz. If this was the Tito from 4-5 years ago I can't say I'd expect the same result.
On on another note, it looks like UFC Undisputed (the video game) wont be as great as I thought. Unless I'm misunderstanding something it looks like you cant even fight guys from different weight classes in exhibition mode unless they've previously fought in different weight classes. That's just retarded. Why the hell can't I beat BJ's face in with Lesnar if it's in exhibition.
There better be cheats or something lol.
Actually, Lesnar shouldn't even be the champ in the first place. He has how many fights? Exactly. Personally, I just hate how Dana White runs things. He's an idiot.
It's not unheard of for champions to get an immediate rematch after a close loss, as is it seems he has to fight through 2 tough contenders (like or not, Wanderlei is still very dangerous, he's lost a fair few recently but he's got a lot of KO power).
Machida is 14-0 against B level fighters, Silva never beat any top guys, Ortiz didn't have any desire to fight anymore (and honestly, was never that good, see: Frank Shamrock handing him his arse) and Sokoudjou has beaten one quality fighter ever; little Nog.
The thing about Jardine is.. he seems to fight infinitely better against quality fighters, I don't understand it, it's like he has some kind of superpower that only activates when he's in severe danger of having his arse handed to him.
Dana White has said he'll probably get a title shot in the next year, get over it, he might have to fight Rampage instead of Evans: he'd have to fight Rampage at some point anyway.
hes not an idiot hes getting alot of money, hes just a dick. brock is the champ because of all the WWE fans that watch brock could get hooked onto ufc which means more money and mainstream attention.