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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

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Hmm.... Interesting choices.

Tbt, I feel conflicted as I do not know who would really impact or liven up the metagame more. Pory2 is, albeit, an interesting choice (even if I prefer PoryZ to him) and could be be one hell of a bitch to take down now. Altaria does seem the most intriguing to me as it comes with everything a defensive dragon might want. Natural cure? Check. Recovery? Check. Moves to abuse both STABs? Check. It has the most potential of being the best candidate this round, and will easily be getting my vote.

Articuno just seems like.... Idk, a fast Hurricane is nice yah, but sadly that's all it would be doing (which isn't bad) but unlike Brave Bird, its best STAB has 70% accuracy which could be a pain (but he has his uses indeed). Tailwind and priority Roost give him a hell of a lot more use though.

Emboar.......Oh I like. That could be a hell of a way to abuse him. That speed boost would be sooooo fun especially after he has that high HP stat and already great Attack stat. It could be a lot of fun to abuse. If it wasn't for the Altaria, I may vote for that.

Either or............ Altaria for Dragon/Fairy Retyping!
 
I'd be more interested in seeing discussion on Hurricane Articuno, honestly. Hurricane is a really interesting priority and would be an impressive buff to an underwhelming Legendary.
 
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Well, i will vote for my idea ^^ Emboar, i believe its ability to take profit of U-Turn or knock off will have a huge impact in the metagame
 
Voting Dragon/Fairy Altaria because we seriously need something that can deal with both formes of Mega Charizard.
 
It think Gale Wings Articuno will still be a sub-par pokemon, as its SpA is lackluster and Hurricane spam is best done by tornadus since its 111 base speed pretty much means its going first anyways.

Not a huge fan of any of them personally, but I'll vote for Protean Porygon2.

I have to agree with Chou Toshio. I'd rather vote on theorymons that will have some sort of significant splash in the metagame rather than trying to do "whats best for the tier".
 
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Running some calcs against potential checks, I see Gale Wings Articuno being very hard to stop. It actually has very similar checks to Talonflame due to Fire and Ice having similar coverage (Rotom-W, Ttar, Heatran) but the difference is it can choose which one to beat depending on which HP it uses. Obviously Hurricane has the annoying accuracy issue, but it seems like a fair trade-off vs. Brave Bird's recoil damage, and the confusion chance is always there to potentially let you hax your way through something that could otherwise check you.

Also there's always Mind Reader.
 
rachet67 said:
It think Gale Wings Articuno will still be a sub-par pokemon, as its SpA is lackluster and Hurricane spam is best done by tornadus since its 111 base speed pretty much means its going first anyways.

Not a huge fan of any of them personally, but I'll vote for Protean Porygon2.
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If Talonflame can wreck half the meta with 81 base Att I don't think Articuno would have any trouble running off 95 base SpA.
 
Protean Porygon2. The potential is simply too big to ignore.

And about Articuno, as i already mentioned, Specs Hurricane has exactly the same power with Band Brave Bird from Talonflame.
 
Protean Porygon2
Dragon/Fairy Altaria


252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Articuno Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Ryolain said:
If Talonflame can wreck half the meta with 81 base Att I don't think Articuno would have any trouble running off 95 base SpA.
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But tornadus has 111 base Spe, outspeeding most of the meta anyways, and 125 SpA, which makes for a much harder hitting specs hurricane set. If you want even more speed, Tornadus-T has 121 base Spe, has 110 SpA, and has an amazing ability in regenerator. Both these mons don't have nearly as much of a problem with stealth rock. The main reason they're not used more often is because of its 70% accuracy, and having gale wings isn't going to help with that.
 
rachet67 said:
But tornadus has 111 base Spe, outspeeding most of the meta anyways, and 125 SpA, which makes for a much harder hitting specs hurricane set. The main reason its not used more often is because of its 70% accuracy, and having gale wings isn't going to help with that.
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You are missing the main benefit of Gale Wings, which is to revenge kill speed boosting threats and Choice Scarf users, as well as faster Pokemon, of which there are plenty faster than Tornadus, such as Greninja, Deo-S, Starmie, and Alakazam.
 
Gale Wings Articuno

I like Articuno, and this is better than my Snow Warning submission. Which I now realize was pretty dumb.
 
Altaria can't do shit against Char-Y except toxic it and stall it out with roost. And it needs 252/132+ to avoid a 2HKO from mega char-y's fire blast in sun after stealth rocks so it can't invest in it's attack or defense as much as it would like. And a +1 Char-X flare Blitz always 2HKO's it after stealth rocks. So Altaria is still not a counter to char-x, and it can counter char-y with investment, but then it's stats don't allow it to do much. Articuno Gale Wings seems interesting but a 70% accuracy move is not something to be relied on. Sure it has priority roost and great bulk, but I don't think it'll serve to impact OU that greatly. I'm gonna have to go with Protean Porygon 2 simply because it now has a solid offensive presence and can change it's typing around, which is very interesting. Porygon 2 would effectively be able to utilize Protean's defensive and offensive sides, whereas Greninja is to frail to do the former to it's highest potential. Emboar rattled is definitely a solid boost, as it can take advantage of all the knock-offs and u-turns. But it has to rely on the opponent for that speed boost, which brings predictions to the table and ultimately does not allow Emboar to reliably get a speed boost each game. It's too situational.
 
I don't particularly care if the Pokemon chosen has a big potential impact on the game or helps the tier. What's more important to me is just how interesting and discussion provoking it is.

So, looking at our choices this time around, I'm gonna go with Protean Porygon2.

When Protean came out, it was a bit disappointing that neither recipient of the ability could use it defensively. While Porygon2 would likely make great use of Protean, it does still have to forgo Trace for it. Overall I just think there's really neat potential to be seen here.

As for the others, Gale Wings Articuno doesn't seem like it'd be a balanced threat. Plus, would you ever want to deal with a priority flying move that can cause confusion? If Articuno got this ability it'd probably be rage-inducing. I'm personally kind of tired of seeing Fairy-type slapped onto everything as an option, so Altaria is right out. I had to deliberate a bit on Rattled Emboar, both because it's a good idea and because I like the mental picture of a giant fiery wrestler freaking out over bugs. However, as higglybiggly said, it seems too situational. While it would discourage U-Turn, the fact that it needs that boost to be really viable is troublesome. It actually kind of reminds me of Electivire. It'd be really obvious what you're going for when your opponent sees Emboar waiting in the wings.
 
higglybiggly said:
Altaria can't do shit against Char-Y except toxic it and stall it out with roost. And it needs 252/132+ to avoid a 2HKO from mega char-y's fire blast in sun after stealth rocks so it can't invest in it's attack or defense as much as it would like. And a +1 Char-X flare Blitz always 2HKO's it after stealth rocks. So Altaria is still not a counter to char-x, and it can counter char-y with investment, but then it's stats don't allow it to do much. Articuno Gale Wings seems interesting but a 70% accuracy move is not something to be relied on. Sure it has priority roost and great bulk, but I don't think it'll serve to impact OU that greatly. I'm gonna have to go with Protean Porygon 2 simply because it now has a solid offensive presence and can change it's typing around, which is very interesting. Porygon 2 would effectively be able to utilize Protean's defensive and offensive sides, whereas Greninja is to frail to do the former to it's highest potential. Emboar rattled is definitely a solid boost, as it can take advantage of all the knock-offs and u-turns. But it has to rely on the opponent for that speed boost, which brings predictions to the table and ultimately does not allow Emboar to reliably get a speed boost each game. It's too situational.
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Altaria gets Haze, which means that it can actually wall Mega Char X, and being able to beat Mega Char Y with only Toxic is totally fine, as it should be played as a wall anyway. A set of Toxic / Haze / Roost / Moonblast would be great.

As for Articuno, it's true that Hurricane is not reliable outside of rain, which is why it should always be used in rain. Damp Rock Politoed is still a very reliable rain source, though anti-sr support + damp rock Politoed is a lot of support.
 
When people refer to using Protean defensively, do they mean strategically changing your type to alter your resistances? Because P2 is way too slow to do that effectively. Most of the time you'll be taking a hit in your current type before Protean activates, and that concept also limits you in terms of actually hitting back because you'll be choosing your attack based on what type you want to be, not what move will actually hurt your opponent the most. It comes off as highly situational to me.

ETA: There's no reason Articuno can't set its own rain, honestly. Ice Beam is largely useless, everything that resists Hurricane either resists Ice Beam as well or would be covered the same/better by HP. So it can run Hurricane / Rain Dance / Roost / HP Whatever.
 
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alexwolf said:
Altaria gets Haze, which means that it can actually wall Mega Char X, and being able to beat Mega Char Y with only Toxic is totally fine, as it should be played as a wall anyway. A set of Toxic / Haze / Roost / Moonblast would be great.

As for Articuno, it's true that Hurricane is not reliable outside of rain, which is why it should always be used in rain. Damp Rock Politoed is still a very reliable rain source, though anti-sr support + damp rock Politoed is a lot of support.
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Except a combination of +1 Flare Blitz and +0 Flare Blitz still 2HKO's a spread of 252/124/132+ after stealth rocks, which would be the normal spread to avoid the 2HKO from mega char-y. It can't counter both at the same time, and only serves to counter one, like many other pokemon in the current meta. And like you said that much support is pretty iffy, It won't be able to revenge kill or sweep so easily with that much support.

EDIT:Actually I've been assumin it still has that flying typing, so it actually only needs 252/72 to avoid the 2HKO from char-y which allows it to safely counter char-x. I stand corrected. Still gonna stick to my vote for protean porygon 2 though
 
Ryolain said:
When people refer to using Protean defensively, do they mean strategically changing your type to alter your resistances? Because P2 is way too slow to do that effectively. Most of the time you'll be taking a hit in your current type before Protean activates, and that concept also limits you in terms of actually hitting back because you'll be choosing your attack based on what type you want to be, not what move will actually hurt your opponent the most. It comes off as highly situational to me.
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We mean to change your typing depending on the Pokemon you are expecting to switch in when you force something out. For example, if you expect a Fighting-type to come in you can use Toxic, Shadow Ball, or Trick Room to get a good match-up.

higglybiggly said:
Except a combination of +1 Flare Blitz and +0 Flare Blitz still 2HKO's a spread of 252/124/132+ after stealth rocks, which would be the normal spread to avoid the 2HKO from mega char-y. It can't counter both at the same time, and only serves to counter one, like many other pokemon in the current meta. And like you said that much support is pretty iffy, It won't be able to revenge kill or sweep so easily with that much support.
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You are forgetting Cloud Nine, which means that Altaria can wall Mega Char Y even without all that SpD investment, so it has room for Defense investment.

And the point with Altaria is not to sweep anyway, but to check and wall stuff, as well as provide team support with Heal Bell.
 
Honestly just being able to change your type to something thats not normal is a net positive (though it might have to switch out more often after using ice beam).
 
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