Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[alexwolf]

I am giving Competitive to regular Houndoom too because otherwise Mega Houndoom wouldn't be able to properly take advantage of Competitive, and thus the theorymon would be kinda lacking. Also, i forgot to say it, but Houndoom will only have Competitive when holding Houndoomite, because otherwise people might just use regular Houndoom instead. As usually, don't worry about this not being possible in-game or anything, this doesn't matter in this thread.

 

[DuskSoul]

Does Competitive works on self-inflicted drops, like from Overheat?

 

[skies]

Does Competitive works on self-inflicted drops, like from Overheat?

No.

 

[Red Cat]

I'm going to have to agree with some hero on this one and say that I am not very impressed with this slate. I guess we'll just have to work with what we've got.

Flower Veil Virizion: This one might be okay. Immunity to status and stat drops is nice, but it doesn't really fix Virizion's main flaws. Virizion still has low physical bulk, below average offenses, and bad defensive typing. Boosting sets are easily revenge killed by Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Lati@s. The Swords Dance set is walled by Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, and Unaware Clefable which are common on stall.

Shed Skin Zygarde: I know there were many Zygarde ideas suggested, but this was not one of the best. Shed Skin's 33% activation rate makes it unreliable, so I don't really think it can count on Rest for reliable recovery. I could see some of the other Zygarde suggestions such as Recover, Regenerator, and Tinted Lens giving it some real use, but Shed Skin just doesn't do enough for it.

Scrappy Forretress: Supposedly it provides guaranteed hazard removal without consequence, but its lack of offensive presence and reliable recovery really cut down on its reliability as a hazard remover. If Deoxys-D has Thunder Wave, it can paralyze Forretress and fish for Parahax on the switch after laying SR since Forretress can't do anything back. It also loses Sturdy which sometimes helps it in a pinch. Like Zygarde, what Forretress really needs is reliable recovery.

Competitive Mega? Non-Mega? Whatever the hell it is Houndoom: Another idea that sounds okayish, but has considerable flaws. Latios can Defog on its base form and then OHKO with Draco Meteor unless it runs Sucker Punch with investment in its shitty attack which is stupid. Hydreigon also shits on Houndoom. Houndoom can take advantage of more defensive Defoggers, but Specially Defensive Unaware Clefable can wall Houndoom, and it needs Nasty Plot to break through Chansey. Heatran can take a +2 Dark Pulse and Roar Houndoom out too. Although its speed is good, its lack of priority (Sucker Punch off 90 attack unboosted sucks) and bad defensive typing leave it vulnerable to revenge killing. Mega Houndoom already has a good ability; it just needs a non-mega Drought user not named Ninetales.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

OH MY POTATO!

It will take some serious discussion to keep me from voting Zygarde.

I'm not usually one to complain, but where the heck is the flower on this thing? That pink thing on its neck? Flower Veil Virizion sounds good to me, just like many have mentioned, not enough to fix it for OU, especially with this slate.

Shed Skin Zygarde would no longer have to sacrifice coverage or priority to protect itself from status. My original Coil Zygarde could finally be awesome again!

Unblockable rapid spins sound like heaven, but Scrappy Forretress is unreliable offensively and defensively, so I doubt I'd use it over Moldy Excadrill.

Competitive Mega Houndoom is actually really interesting. Solar Power simply isn't useful, so this doesn't hurt it by any means. Having to MEvolve before being able to punish defog sounds like an interesting dynamic, but the other anti-defoggers work well because of speed or priority, so it worries me if this could succeed.

 

[HolyAvatar]

OH MY POTATO!

Competitive Mega Houndoom is actually really interesting. Solar Power simply isn't useful, so this doesn't hurt it by any means. Having to MEvolve before being able to punish defog sounds like an interesting dynamic, but the other anti-defoggers work well because of speed or priority, so it worries me if this could succeed.

Pre mega will also have competitive. Basically, the mega will require competitive base to get competitive itself.

 

[escarlata]

There was something I wrote 2 pages back that probably went unnoticed about MegaDoom, in that it guarantee either a +2 or a kill against Sub-less Aegislash with uninvested Pursuit, assuming it comes in in blade form. It can be form quite the dangerous core when used with BD Azumarill or other dangerous sweepers which had problems with Aegislash

 

[Siiilver]

My Views-

Flower Veil Virizion- IMO this may not actually affect the metagame so much. All it would really do is make virizion immune to sticky web and intimidate, some of the most common forms of stat reduction (and not to mention defog).

Competitive Houndoom- This DOES seem pretty interesting. Now your opponents will think twice about sending out Landorus-T, setting up sticky web, or even using defog.

Scrappy Forretress- Being able to get past spinblockers would be great, but then sturdy normally means that you can survive a fire attack and AT LEAST set up a layer of rocks. Not sure if scrappy would be the best idea for forretress.

Shed Skin Zygarde- Although it wouldn't be the BEST for Zygarde, anything seems better than its current ability, at least for now. Shed Skin would pretty much mean that it ignores status, and doesn't mind a burn, but then unlike scrafty, it has no way to heal up lost HP without the use of rest. And even WITH rest, you may not wake up in the first 2 turns.

 

[HolyAvatar]

Unless they're doing it differently than Regenerator Mega Ampharos back in February, base forms keep their regular abilities.

If you just read a few posts before yours.

Yeah, regular Houndoom gets Competitive as well. And just to be clear, regular Houndoom and Mega Houndoom must both have Competitive, you can't go with Flash Fire on regular Houndoom and Competitive on Mega Houndoom, or Competitive on regular Houndoom and Solar Power on Mega Houndoom.

 

[Isa Simple]

I am giving Competitive to regular Houndoom too because otherwise Mega Houndoom wouldn't be able to properly take advantage of Competitive, and thus the theorymon would be kinda lacking. Also, i forgot to say it, but Houndoom will only have Competitive when holding Houndoomite, because otherwise people might just use regular Houndoom instead. As usually, don't worry about this not being possible in-game or anything, this doesn't matter in this thread.

I'm sorry but this doesn't seem right.
With every other theorymon slated to date that had either, an evolution, pre-evolution, Mega, or pre-Mega, it has been that one gets the buff and everything else doesn't. Like when Heracross got Roost (which wasn't very good),
we changed the game mechanics to deny Mega-Hera Roost (which would have actually been fairly solid).

You said it yourself, Mega-Houndoom wouldn't be able to properly take advantage of Competitive, so you change the rules out of no where to turn a pretty average suggestion into a good one. Game mechanics don't even suggest that both the pre-Mega and Mega have to have the same ability. It is just a random twist in the rules to fix a suggestion which you quite liked.

 

[alexwolf]

I'm sorry but this doesn't seem right.
With every other theorymon slated to date that had either, an evolution, pre-evolution, Mega, or pre-Mega, it has been that one gets the buff and everything else doesn't. Like when Heracross got Roost (which wasn't very good),
we changed the game mechanics to deny Mega-Hera Roost (which would have actually been fairly solid).

You said it yourself, Mega-Houndoom wouldn't be able to properly take advantage of Competitive, so you change the rules out of no where to turn a pretty average suggestion into a good one. Game mechanics don't even suggest that both the pre-Mega and Mega have to have the same ability. It is just a random twist in the rules to fix a suggestion which you quite liked.

The thing is that there are no rules. I have already stated multiple times that i don't care about in-game mechanics, all i care about is good theorymons. I chose to forbid Roost on Mega Heracross because it would steal the spotlight from regular Heracross, defeating the point of the theorymon in the first place. Likewise, now i allow Competitive on regular Houndoom, because otherwise i feel that the theorymon won't be worth it. Anyway, if you have any issues with how i run things, PM me, to not sidetrack this thread.

As for Scrappy Forretress, i think that people are underestimating the importance of an unblockable spin, especially for stall teams. This means that stall teams don't have to resort to Defog, and thus can keep their own hazards up, so Spikes become a way more viable option. Also, Forretress can set up on many defensive Pokemon, such as cleric Clefable, Sylveon, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon, and Quagsire, and with cleric support, it can easily outlast the opposing defensive Defog users, as Spikes has more PPs than Defog. This gives a big advantage to the stall team using Forretress on the stall vs stall matchup.

However, i agree that in general it's a very situational improvement that won't make Forretress exceptional or anything, it will just turn it from completely unviable to a viable niche Pokemon on stall teams.

Finally, don't talk about other theorymons when explaining the merit of one theorymon. We are considering those theorymons for OU, not OU + theorymons of the same month. Just because the theorymons of each month end up in the same ladder, it doesn't mean that the discussion that takes place in this thread should take the other theorymons into consideration. For example, don't bring up Defog Hydreigon as a Defog user that doesn't care about Competitive Mega Houndoom. The OU ladder is just a fan byproduct, the main purpose is to discuss the merit that each of the theorymons separately would have in OU.

 

[skies]

Flower Veil Virizion​

Virizion is one of my personal favorite Pokemon, and I really like it. Many deem it unviable for OU, but I happen to be fond of using it! I actually created a successful HO team including Virizon! Flower Veil doesn't really make the most sense flavor-wise, but who cares, neither does Scrappy Forretress. People are really underestimating how much damage this thing can do. It's now immune to Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Will-o-Wisp, which gives it a plethora of switch-in options and it single-handedly decimates Stall. It 2HKOes Unaware Clefable (Specially Defensive) and it beats Quagsire, Chansey, Porygon2, Heatran, Mega Venusaur, amongst lesser used Stallers. Depending on the set, it can really put in work, it has three main sets as I see it: Bulky Calm Mind, LO Calm Mind, and LO Swords Dance. Bulky Calm Mind is the biggest fuck you to Stall, being immune to their torturous statuses and setting up with ease. While it also is great against offensive teams because it can take on a lot of Special Attackers at +1, while it does still have middling physical bulk. LO Calm Mind, on the other hand, plays more recklessly, attempting to get it in Rotom-W or a status-inflicter and set up to sweep, but it doesn't mind switching out to something else, it can come in and do it again later. Then, LO Swords Dance, my favorite. LO Swords Dance gets a quick +2 boost and it has powerful STAB moves in Leaf Blade and Close Combat, with Stone Edge as well, to round out its coverage, this combo is only resisted by Aegislash. Let's not forget you're immune to Intimidates now, which is really amazing, this thing's the best Landorus-T counter I've ever seen, not giving a fuck about EdgeQuake or Knock Off or U-turn, and being immune to Toxic. If Virizion manages to get to +2 SpD, it walls Landorus-I as well now, as Psychic is a 3HKO, while Giga Drain recovers any health lost and OHKOes Landorus at +2. However, Virizion is not without its flaws. Its 4x weakness to Flying-types really sucks, and while it can be eased with teammates, it still really holds it back. Its Special bulk is offset by its not-so-great Defense. But, Virizion is still a threat with 108 Speed and 127 Special Defense, backed up by solid 90 Offenses, now it is only better! Anyways, #VoteVirizion2014!

EDIT;
Competitive Houndoom looks to be the winner by consensus, so many people are praising it and ignoring Virizion ;-; fuck that

 

[Red Cat]

Flower Veil Virizion​

Virizion is one of my personal favorite Pokemon, and I really like it. Many deem it unviable for OU, but I happen to be fond of using it! I actually created a successful HO team including Virizon! Flower Veil doesn't really make the most sense flavor-wise, but who cares, neither does Scrappy Forretress. People are really underestimating how much damage this thing can do. It's now immune to Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Will-o-Wisp, which gives it a plethora of switch-in options and it single-handedly decimates Stall. It 2HKOes Unaware Clefable (Specially Defensive) and it beats Quagsire, Chansey, Porygon2, Heatran, Mega Venusaur, amongst lesser used Stallers. Depending on the set, it can really put in work, it has three main sets as I see it: Bulky Calm Mind, LO Calm Mind, and LO Swords Dance. Bulky Calm Mind is the biggest fuck you to Stall, being immune to their torturous statuses and setting up with ease. While it also is great against offensive teams because it can take on a lot of Special Attackers at +1, while it does still have middling physical bulk. LO Calm Mind, on the other hand, plays more recklessly, attempting to get it in Rotom-W or a status-inflicter and set up to sweep, but it doesn't mind switching out to something else, it can come in and do it again later. Then, LO Swords Dance, my favorite. LO Swords Dance gets a quick +2 boost and it has powerful STAB moves in Leaf Blade and Close Combat, with Stone Edge as well, to round out its coverage, this combo is only resisted by Aegislash. Let's not forget you're immune to Intimidates now, which is really amazing, this thing's the best Landorus-T counter I've ever seen, not giving a fuck about EdgeQuake or Knock Off or U-turn, and being immune to Toxic. If Virizion manages to get to +2 SpD, it walls Landorus-I as well now, as Psychic is a 3HKO, while Giga Drain recovers any health lost and OHKOes Landorus at +2. However, Virizion is not without its flaws. Its 4x weakness to Flying-types really sucks, and while it can be eased with teammates, it still really holds it back. Its Special bulk is offset by its not-so-great Defense. But, Virizion is still a threat with 108 Speed and 127 Special Defense, backed up by solid 90 Offenses, now it is only better! Anyways, #VoteVirizion2014!

EDIT;
Competitive Houndoom looks to be the winner by consensus, so many people are praising it and ignoring Virizion ;-; fuck that

I don't think Virizion really decimates stall. Skarmory can OHKO all variants with Brave Bird. The Calm Mind sets are walled by Unaware Clefable, and the Swords Dance set is walled by Mega Venusaur.

 

[skies]

I don't think Virizion really decimates stall. Skarmory can OHKO all variants with Brave Bird. The Calm Mind sets are walled by Unaware Clefable, and the Swords Dance set is walled by Mega Venusaur.

252 SpA Life Orb Virizion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 265-313 (79.3 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I wouldn't say that, Specially offensive ones can beat Skarmory (Close Combat 2HKOes as well). Giga Drain is a 3HKO, and if it switches in, then it is a 2HKO, and Moonblast is a 2HKO, so if it switches into Giga Drain then Virizion has a chance to beat it. Mega Venusaur is 2HKOed by Stone Edge, even though it won't hit twice in a row, but that's what teammates are for! That's what, two Pokemon who have great chances against it on Stall? Its versatility is what makes it great.

 

[Salemance]

So from how I see the reactions, the new slate is going in a few directions.

Useful but not Metagame defining.
. This applies to Forretress and Zygarde most in my eyes. An unblockable Rapid Spin sounds fun (had this once already with the Avalugg slate if I recall) but there are reasons why the ball of iron fell out of OU this Gen. With plenty of ways to use and abuse hazard removal from Excadrill, Mega Blastoise, to Defoggers, Forretress would need something crazy to truly make something out of this. Almost every other hazard remover can punish ghost switch ins anyway with beautiful coverage or be an even better defensive wall than this ball in the form of Mandibuzz and Skarmory. He sadly does not bring a whole lot to the table that can not be covered by others.

. Zygarde is just saddled with being a dragon who shares the typing of Garchomp. He has a hard time getting out of that shadow as is, but does so with his standard SubCoil sets. While this wont be a drastic metagame shift, its a useful one for all the right reasons that may just work but not drastically so.

Perfectly Reasonable.
. Flower Veil was over due for being on a grass type, and Virizion can capitalize on it well. Vir can utilize the role of a sweeper as it only fears Unaware Clefable which it can learn to play around with proper support and move slots. A solid theory Mon that can do good in a meta that needs to be less stagnant.

Ugh, not another one.
. Mega Houdoom is a special variant of Bisharp with this buff and is able to do something besides be a lesser Char Y (sure its faster, but it could only dream of Char Y's guaranteed Solarbeam) with more abusable dual STABs. Only reason I think of it as "ugh, not this thing" as it basically gives us just yet another dark type to prepare against that hits even harder and is ten times faster than its predecessor. Its more of a buff for something that is tried and true and yah, makes perfect sense to do instead of something that isn't necessarily as odd or out there of an idea. The best ideas sure make sense and seem great but this one just seems to much of what we already have an not of something we didn't.


Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Right or not, its what I see so have fun furthering the discussion.

 

[skies]

Typhlosion with Fire/Fighting would be really good as a High B or low A class OU pokemon. The resistance to rock and 4x bug resistance would be more than enough with focus blast and Eruption to make it viable in OU imo. The sheer power of a stab booted Focus Blast and Eruption would make it the perfect special sweeper and wall breaker with the correct support. What do you guys think?

These should be PM'ed to Alexwolf :) and I don't think it is an improvement, gives it a weakness to Flying-types and although STAB Focus Blast is cool, Typhlosion would still be outclassed :/

 

[Yayz]

I believe these Theorymon would exist in the same pool as Defog Hydreigon, correct? So unfortunately for it, it won't be able to do much to Hydreigon, considering Hydreigon blocks both of its STABs. However...
+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 226-266 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which is good for MHoundoom. I don't know his usual set, but I'm assuming NP/Flamethrower(or Fire Blast)/Dark Pulse for three of the moves. Relying on Defog switchins for boosting isn't a good idea, so the set would stay the same, I assume.

Not being able to beat Hydreigon doesn't mean it's bad, though. As noticed in other posts, it wrecks most other defoggers, so it's definitely good.

The others just don't really seem up to par to me. Maybe I'm just biased towards Houndoom for some reason.

 

[Empress]

Despite the support it's receiving, I'm not a fan of Competitive Houndoom. Think about it- why would you want to try and Intimidate it when its Attack is so much lower than its Sp. Attack? For that reason, Aegislash shouldn't fear Houndoom's Pursuit too much either. Also, Sticky Web is nowhere to be seen in OU, at least since I've been playing. And remember what Alexwolf said in his OP: he is looking for defensive/support buffs over offensive buffs.

With that in mind, I throw my full support behind Flower Veil Virizion. Two things that far too many people don't realize (myself included until just a few minutes ago, lol) is that Flower Veil works on the wielder if it is Grass-type, and it prevents status problems as well as stat drops. Flower Veil is somewhat of a mix between defensive and offensive, as opposed to Competitive, which is strictly offensive. With it, Virizion will eat stall teams alive, and her physical sets won't care about Will-o-Wisps. Even Unaware Clefable trembles before the ultimate stall breaker, as Virizion's massive Sp. Def let her absorb any Moonblast that Clefable might fire off. Though Flying-types still eat Virizion alive, she will now have plenty of utility and should not be too hard to support. Just kill the opponent's Talonflame before letting Virizion set up and you'll do fine.

(If this doesn't win, I would like to nominate Bulk Up Virizion next round. Would be a great way to help offset her poor Defense and let her take Flying-type moves a little better.)

 

[escarlata]

Despite the support it's receiving, I'm not a fan of Competitive Houndoom. Think about it- why would you want to try and Intimidate it when its Attack is so much lower than its Sp. Attack? For that reason, Aegislash shouldn't fear Houndoom's Pursuit too much either. Also, Sticky Web is nowhere to be seen in OU, at least since I've been playing. And remember what Alexwolf said in his OP: he is looking for defensive/support buffs over offensive buffs.

With that in mind, I throw my full support behind Flower Veil Virizion. Two things that far too many people don't realize (myself included until just a few minutes ago, lol) is that Flower Veil works on the wielder if it is Grass-type, and it prevents status problems as well as stat drops. Flower Veil is somewhat of a mix between defensive and offensive, as opposed to Competitive, which is strictly offensive. With it, Virizion will eat stall teams alive, and her physical sets won't care about Will-o-Wisps. Even Unaware Clefable trembles before the ultimate stall breaker, as Virizion's massive Sp. Def let her absorb any Moonblast that Clefable might fire off. Though Flying-types still eat Virizion alive, she will now have plenty of utility and should not be too hard to support. Just kill the opponent's Talonflame before letting Virizion set up and you'll do fine.

(If this doesn't win, I would like to nominate Bulk Up Virizion next round. Would be a great way to help offset her poor Defense and let her take Flying-type moves a little better.)

Yea Virizion now does indeed seems the best of the bunch after seeing more discussions going on.

But you seems to be downplaying the usefulness of pursuit MegaDoom against Aegislash. As long as you come in when it is in blade form, it is put in 3 choices. Use kings shield to give houndoom a competitive boost; switch out and die to unimvested pursuit; or to attack, at which point it's main stabs are resisted and Sacred Sword does not do enough against houndoom such that aegislash is still 2hkoed first; or if houndoom chooses to attack instead of pursuit-trap, then aegislash is dead. Basically it guarantees it an advantageous position against aegislash, and that's something not much can claim.

 

[Valmanway]

Flower Veil Virizion: I'm mixed about this one. On one hand, status immunity is pretty great for well near anything getting it. Virizion would love the Toxic immunity, and Burn and Paralysis immunities are just icing on the cake for special attacking sets. The problem here is the lack of sweeping potential; Virizion just doesn't have the power to pull of sweeps. It's fast enough, don't get me wrong, but 90 / 90 offenses just aren't enough for a sweep. This is one of the better choices here, tied with Competitive Houndoom, but I'm still not that blown away by this.

Shed Skin Zygarde: This is just far too unreliable to use. Getting rid of status is great and all, but if you only get rid of it a third of the time, then that's just far too unreliable, since the other 2/3 of the time, you have no ability (not that Aura Break was much better, but still...). If Zygarde got Recover in combination with Shed Skin, then I'd be much more tempted to vote for this one, but as it is now, Shed Skin Zygarde is hardly what I'd call an improvement, not to mention that Garchomp exists, so...

Scrappy Forretress: This sounds good in theory, getting rid of the opponent's hazards while keeping the ones you laid down without having to worry about a Ghost-type switching in for free. The problem isn't the idea, which is very good, it just Forretress himself; he sucks. I hate to say that, but he's honestly just a terrible Pokemon. As others have said before me, Skarmory is just better in every way, even though Defog gets rid of hazards on both sides of the battlefield, having actual speed, Roost, and Taunt is far too valuable just to keep hazards you lay down while getting rid of your opponent's.

Competitive Mega Houndoom: If not for the fact that regular Houndoom is getting Competitive as well, this would have been a very underwhelming idea. But since both regular and Mega Houndoom get Competitive, what we have here is a very interesting anti-Defogger, capable of threatening most Defog users, offensive and defensive, and possibly sweeping the team. Skarmory, Scizor, the Lati twins, and Mandibuzz are easily taken out by one of Houndoom's powered up STAB attacks, and Sucker Punch is great for the Lati twins before Mega Evolving. Being a special attacker also greatly sets himself apart from Bisharp, another Dark-type that punishes Defog. This will likely get my vote, since the rest of the competition isn't really putting up much of a fight.

 

[U-Ralph]

Hey everyone, very interesting mon that time.
I will talk about my favorite : Zygarde + Shed Skin. Actually i was waiting for a while that mon drops tier to be seen here. Let's take a look, why that thing doesn't work as well as we wish in OU nowadays ? It has a great bulk ( better than Hippodown ), its type leaves it with a huge ice weakness but give it an impressive double stab. It has a quite good movepool with thing like glare, extrem speed, dragon dance, coil, ... so why it can't shine in OU ??? --> no viable recovery, no entry hasard and offensive set are overshadowed by mons like Garchomp or Dragonite which have better Atk coverage moves and abilities.
And here is coming Shed Skin ... indeed shed skin allows Zygarde to use Rest as viable recovery move and improve very original coil or glare sets (by losing statuses problem and getting that already mentioned viable recovery move). Also it can fulfill the role of staller by becoming even more bulky and reliable than Hippowndon (bar the SR part).

To end that post, what can Zygarde do now ? Countering Rotom, countering aegislash, ... and with the ability to stay longer in the game. Offensivly it should be very unpredicatble as it as many tools as glare, coil, and the less original Ddance, and that intring me a lot. I want to see that with my own eyes in game !!!

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

These stuff sound fun.

Flower Veil Virizion. Yay, my favorite of the four swordsman... quad... group... THING has a weird ability! No burns and paralysis sounds nice, although its sad Close Combat defense drops arent negated otherwise id love this better. But what SUCKS is that now i cant switch into Knock Offs like i want to ;-; But yay, now i dont NEED to run a lum berry.


Competitive Houndoom. I like this. It gives Houndoom a better ability than one that is worthless in most weathers, and drains your HP in the Sun either way. Plus, an instant Nasty Plot upon getting Intimidated, getting spdef dropped by Shadow Ball or other things upon switch in. OR royally fucking over Aegislash's day. And anything being able to kill Aegislash is my thing.


Shed Skin Zygarde. ERMAHGERD, PLEASE. Zygarde has the most worthless ability, considering none of the 2 pokemon its ability affects (If im correct, only xerneas and yveltal, i could be wrong) are Ubers, where Zygarde gets killed instantly. I use a DD Mono-attacking Zygarde set with rest (ice moves stop my coil sets every time), and with my luck with Shed Skin, i will FAIL EACH AND EVERY TIME TO WAKE UP WITH SHED SKIN!


Scrappy Forretress. Not like i care for this, because i use defog on practically all my teams. However, because i am weird, Normal Gem Scrappy Explosion. Not like anyone will use it, but YOLO, right?

 

[Sun King]

As for Scrappy Forretress, i think that people are underestimating the importance of an unblockable spin, especially for stall teams. This means that stall teams don't have to resort to Defog, and thus can keep their own hazards up, so Spikes become a way more viable option. Also, Forretress can set up on many defensive Pokemon, such as cleric Clefable, Sylveon, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon, and Quagsire, and with cleric support, it can easily outlast the opposing defensive Defog users, as Spikes has more PPs than Defog. This gives a big advantage to the stall team using Forretress on the stall vs stall matchup.

However, i agree that in general it's a very situational improvement that won't make Forretress exceptional or anything, it will just turn it from completely unviable to a viable niche Pokemon on stall teams.

Forretress doesn't really have a spot on stall teams, and that's not because it isn't a reliable spinner. It doesn't have a spot because it relies on leftovers for recovery, and at the same time offers almost nothing valuable to stall. Sure--it can set up hazards, however those hazards are so easily removed that it makes more sense to pack something that can keep the momentum going. Stall has evolved from last gen--hazard stall is simply not viable anymore because it doesn't generate enough momentum.
That being said, I actually like Scrappy Forretress for Volt-Turn. Seeing as Volt-Turn's worst nightmare is a messy field of hazards, the team really appreciates being able to get rid of them and then having a slow Volt Switch out of there. This ends up putting a lot of pressure on the opponent ("Do I try to set hazards back up, or do I have to keep pressure so as not to lose too much momentum?"). Another plus of Forretress on Volt-Turn is that he's able to guarantee hazard removal while:
1. Not being weak to SR
2. Not taking up your mega slot (looking at you, Scizor)

Tl;dr: Scrappy Forretress isn't really good on stall, but is really cool on Volt-Turn offense

 

[Isa Simple]

Ok, so the reason I suggested Shed Skin Zygarde over Recover Zygarde is because Zygarde's 2 main problems are Status and Recovery. Unlike Recover , Shed Skin gives him a viable way of handling both. People say that 33% isn't to be considered viable, but when you think about how often Scald burns you, and how often your SE or FB miss, 33% ain't half bad.
And as far as comparing to Garchomp goes, a Healthy Zygarde is a lot scarier than a Burned Garchomp!

 

[Inspirited]

Ok, so the reason I suggested Shed Skin Zygarde over Recover Zygarde is because Zygarde's 2 main problems are Status and Recovery. Unlike Recover , Shed Skin gives him a viable way of handling both. People say that 33% isn't to be considered viable, but when you think about how often Scald burns you, and how often your SE or FB miss, 33% ain't half bad.
And as far as comparing to Garchomp goes, a Healthy Zygarde is a lot scarier than a Burned Garchomp!

To build on what is a is saying, DD Zygarde can now run the Life Orb it wants over Lum Berry much easier. It needed a Life Orb to pick up quite a few KO's prepokebank when I used it the most, and now it can do this knowing that it has a passive way of ridding itself of status. Honestly, any improvement over Zygarde's sadly useless ability has my backing.