Don't forget Focus Blast, the guaranteed 2HKO on Heatran and Tyranitar would be very sweet.
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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Gonna vote for Scrafty. Parting Shot seems like it would have good synergy with Shed Skin because they cause problems for offense and defense (especially since XY is status-heavy) respectfully, but at the same time it still has a terrible defensive typing for OU, and Talonflame eats it for breakfast (OHKO's) unless it's running max investment AND Intimidate (in which case it still gets 2HKO'd). It'll be a very interesting discussion.
Oh man, hands down No Guard Noivern. I tried to use him at the beginning of XY and was sorely let down by his ability to actually kill stuff. Specs No Guard Hurricane would make him a great cleaner and maybe even find him a spot on a variation of a Dual Bird core. He's actually bulkier all around than Talonflame and gets much better coverage options - for example, he can OHKO physically defensive Ttar with Focus Blast.
Parting Shot Scrafty
Fur Coat Arcanine
Question: does Fur Coat Arcanine function that differently from Intimidate Arcanine? Granted, the damage is reduced further, but he already has an ability that enables him to take physical hits better. I just don't see Fur Coat changing how he gets used that much unless there are certain KOs he now avoids that Intimidate doesn't.
Parting shot Scrafty
Arcanine has always almost always been a blacklisted pokemon in OU. Intimidate just isn't enough to justify using a defensive mono-fire type with subpar defensive stats. I'll use the hardest Outrage in the game (I believe) to demonstrate:
With intimidate:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 201-237 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But, with fur coat:
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 150-177 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Of course, this attack isn't relevant in the OU metagame, but it is the strongest outrage, and one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. Fur Coat wouldn't function differently, necessarily, but it would make it viable.
-1 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 210-248 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
with intimidate
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 159-187 (41.4 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
with the coat.
This is from a maxed base 140 attack. I'd say quite an improvement. Then you can burn which gives:
252+ Atk burned Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 79-93 (20.5 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Then ya have neutral attacks like:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 205-242 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sword Dance buff is included for simplicities sake. Showing that one can live SR, take a hit and die, while only checking it in that category. Or it can burn and:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 102-121 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- 19.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
live for another day while crippling it forever. And the Quick Attack is......
+2 252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 40-47 (10.4 - 12.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
So 25% from rocks, then heal up to 81%, then takes a max of 63% leaving you with 18%, which then becomes 24%. Not bad I'd say. You?
I'm gonna have to nitpick for a second here. Zweilous is no longer the strongest Outrage user. Kyurem-B is.
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 219-258 (57 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Unfortunately, Kyu-B doesn't give half a crap about Fur Coat because of Teravolt.
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 328-387 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
It's actually important to keep in mind that Mold Breakers ignore Fur Coat. That includes Excadrill. =/
Wow. I could've sworn I read some fun fact that Zweilous had the most powerful outrage ever, even surpassing Cube. Oh well, it must have been during BW. And your whole mold breaker argument certainly is important, although Kyu-B very rarely runs physical moves, and physical STAB at that.
Yeah, Zweilous was the most powerful user of Outrage during BW1.
In any case, the bit about Mold Breakers and Teravolt users ignoring Fur Coat is less of an argument against Arcanine (as I'd still like to talk about it,) and more just something to keep in mind.
Well all the posts before mine illustrates how fur coat bonus is better than intimidate. If i have to add something, the intimidate drop can be removed simply by switching and comeback, the fur coat bonus can't be removed as simple as that (even if some trick like teravolt or mold breaker can).
Besides his awful movepool, isn't "he's too slow to use it effectively" one of the main gripes about pangoro and its parting shot?
Though I guess crippling with intimidate could give a much bigger reason for the opponent to switch out, making parting shot more effective on scrafty, even if he still does have the same speed as pangoro
Fur Coat Arcanine
I've only lurked a bit on this thread, but this combination looks amazing. There are not many defensive fire types (the only good ones I can think of are Heatran and Rotom-H, both lack recovery), so it would definitely an interesting addition. Arcanine has a good movepool, both offensively (Flare Blitz, ExtremeSpeed, Wild Charge, Close Combat, Crunch) and defensively (Morning Sun, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Fire Spin, Roar), so it could function very well as a tank and a wall. If only Morning Sun had more PP...
I've only lurked a bit on this thread, but this combination looks amazing. There are not many defensive fire types (the only good ones I can think of are Heatran and Rotom-H, both lack recovery), so it would definitely an interesting addition. Arcanine has a good movepool, both offensively (Flare Blitz, ExtremeSpeed, Wild Charge, Close Combat, Crunch) and defensively (Morning Sun, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Fire Spin, Roar), so it could function very well as a tank and a wall. If only Morning Sun had more PP...
And the results are:
Fur Coat Arcanine: 22
Parting Shot Scrafty: 25
Harvest Torterra: 7
No Guard Noivern: 6
A pretty close one, with our winner being:
+ Parting Shot
So, as always, start discussing about it, and the OP will be updated somewhen today...
Fur Coat Arcanine: 22
Parting Shot Scrafty: 25
Harvest Torterra: 7
No Guard Noivern: 6
A pretty close one, with our winner being:
So, as always, start discussing about it, and the OP will be updated somewhen today...
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Don't really think Parting Shot would help Scrafty too much. Its defenses are nice, but 65 HP doesn't help it in that regard and 90 Attack is pretty mediocre if you plan on being a tank. Scrafty's best sets have always been the setup sets, outside of that, its pretty mediocre.
That said, Intimidate + Parting Shot seriously fucks with physical attackers, which is nice, but I don't see what exactly Scrafty is going to be doing to them outside of just spamming Parting Shot. Its support movepool consists of Roar, Dragon Tail, Toxic, Taunt, and Rain Dance. Taunt looks okay, but the rest really doesn't help it at all. So we end up with a pivot that can't hit hard or do anything particularly notable outside of switching in and switching out repeatedly. This just kinda looks like a bulkier version of Pangoro with less offensive ability.
Wold be fun to throw into a team with Landorus-T, Mega Manectric, and a couple special sponges, though.
That said, Intimidate + Parting Shot seriously fucks with physical attackers, which is nice, but I don't see what exactly Scrafty is going to be doing to them outside of just spamming Parting Shot. Its support movepool consists of Roar, Dragon Tail, Toxic, Taunt, and Rain Dance. Taunt looks okay, but the rest really doesn't help it at all. So we end up with a pivot that can't hit hard or do anything particularly notable outside of switching in and switching out repeatedly. This just kinda looks like a bulkier version of Pangoro with less offensive ability.
Wold be fun to throw into a team with Landorus-T, Mega Manectric, and a couple special sponges, though.
I believe that suggestions are given by PMing the OP.
Parting shot makes Scrafty a fun pivot, I suppose, but he's slow enough that it's still crippling. With the same speed and typing as Pangoro (but better bulk, yes I know), I don't think Scrafty is adding much.
Fairies screw him hard, as it could be fun to Dtail a switch-in then parting shot the switch again. Maybe for maximum shenanigans he could be used as a revenge killer (or a revenge troller at least) with a Choice Scarf. Something like:
Scrafty @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
252 attack and speed, 4 hp
Parting Shot
Hi Jump Kick
Knock-Off / Crunch (listing here because I don't know. Always use knock-off)
[coverage]
gimmicky, but usable, I guess.
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