Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

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Jukain

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Jirachi isn't up there with Terrakion, Deo-D and Politoed. I thought we already came to that conclusion earlier in the thread ?_? A tier suits it perfectly.

Anyway, I'm here to propose for C rank lilligant. Of those who are willing to stray from the common venusaur and look for other chlorophyll sweepers, lilligant quickly comes to mind as one of the better choices. Its major perk over venusaur is that once the sun goes out from another starter or some random weather move carrying poke, lilligant can still have a shot of sweeping the opposing team. It does pretty well against rain with the abilty to outspeed Torn-T after a QD not to be underestimated, and most other components of standard rain ferrothorn aside being pretty vulnerable to a moveset of QD/ giga drain/ HP [ICE]/ Sleep powder with Life Orb and Modest Nature. Torn-T is cleanly OHKO's w/o rocks at +1, and nearly all of the common water types found are decimated by giga drain. If you manage to save your sleep powder for Ferrothorn, a full sweep without raim being up isn't out of the question. Both sand weather starters also happen to be weak to this beast, and some common components of sand fall into the same boat, further increasing lilligant's diversity. The lack of way to hit steels with this set is a let down, but its utility outside of sun overcomes that short coming and can help differentiate lilligant from venusaur. Its got a small niche on sun, and thats why I feel that there is a spot for lilligant in the C tier
Just to add to this:

You can use Venusaur and Lilligant on the same team *gasp*. Lilligant doesn't need to differentiate herself from Venusaur, she can just be used together, facilitating each others' sweeps etc. You could use something like EQ + HP Fire Venusaur with HP Ice Lilligant and you have a dominant offensive combo. Now, it's hard enough to stop ONE Venusaur. What happens when you add an even powerful second one (not the exact same but you get the idea)? Most teams can't handle that, especially if they rely on Heatran.

Something I'm not seeing is the utility set, which is really good as well. Honestly, I think it's better than QD! Healing Wish is just so amazing for sun teams, with bringing sweepers back that die fast such as Volcarona and Victini and giving Ninetales the ability to live even if it is range of being killed by SR. Tyranitar and Politoed will just not worry about staying alive and then boom die and be left with sun when Ninetales gets Healing Wish recovery. It's also got Sleep Powder, allowing stuff like SD loom to set up super easily. If you catch the weather inducer then Ninetales has a field day. And Leaf Storm. Leaf Storm OHKOes Tyranitar in sand. It's that powerful. HP Rock is pretty cool too because Volcarona is a pain in the ass for sun.

On a similar note, nominating Victreebel for C tier. Victreebel's a really cool Chlorophyll sweeper. Victreebel is cool because of Weather Ball, which gives it a much more powerful HP Fire. You run Leaf Blade / Growth / Weather Ball / Sludge Bomb and have a bit more powerful Venusaur where Weather Ball actually hits mons like SDef Rachi hard. You can also run Weather Ball / Leaf Blade / HP Ground / Sludge Bomb and have so much coverage to hit everything hard. Yeah, it's quite frail, but Victreebel's a great mon. And you can also pair it with Venusaur for an amazing kill everything combo.
 
Victreebel is amazing, especially since Weatherball > HP Fire; and Leaf Blade is bloody good.
Pity about that bulk, really. It may still be B tier, though, since IMO its offensive prowess is arguably better than Venusaur. If Heatran's out/low on HP, one growth mid-game and it's more or less GG.
 
I used a Victreebel for a while when I sucked (less) at Pokemon. If I was better at the game, I might have had good luck with it. Setting up with it was a bitch, so I used a chlorophyll Jumpluff with the moves Sleep Powder / Encore / Reflect / Memento to give it more opportunities. It didn't work well, but I still like the idea. Yeah, I'm for Victreebel for C tier.
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
Lilligant for C-tier, absolutely.
As pokemon0078 stated, Utiligant is a valuable asset to sun teams. With 252 SpA, a Modest nature, and Life Orb, her Leaf Storm OHKOs the sand inducers and Politoed; Hidden Power [Rock] allows for a guaranteed revenge kill on +1 Volcarona in sun and mauls Salamence and the common non-Heatran Fire-types. Healing Wish is hilarious; a rejuvenated Landorus-T, Heatran, or Salamence has spelled doom for a sizable percentage of my opponents lately. The fact that Utiligant can actually function reasonably well outside of the sunlight gives her a niche more or less unique among Chlorophyll sweepers.
 
What? Most Venusaur that I see run Sludge Bomb over Sleep Powder. Coverage is something that is actually not an issue for Venusaur, since between HP Fire/Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb, there are very few things that Venusaur can't cover. Heatran is one of them, and is very easy to get rid of him with a partnered Dugtrio. I like the fact that Sleep Powder can disable one of Venusaur's counters for the rest of match - even Heatran. However, not running Sludge Bomb = problems against Fire-, and Dragon-types.
Sludge Bomb really isn't all that common in my personal experience. It is more common than Sleep Powder though. In the moveset statistics, 41% of venusaur carry Sleep Powder, Sleep powder growth Venusaur are virtually outclassed by Lilligant with Sleep Powder Quiver Dance. Lilligant does fill a very solid niche for Itself as it is better than Venusaur around 40% of situations and thats without Quiver Dance. With Quiver Dance, it basically puts itself at an even level with Venusaur (Except that fighting resist). I still think Lilligant is absolute C Rank.
 
I'd like to give some justification for Moltres getting a spot in the D Rank, serving as a sort of a hybrid of Tornadus-T and Volcarona in Rain.

-Tied with Tornadus-I for strongest Hurricane in the game
-Unlike other STAB Hurricane users, has no trouble breaking through Ferrothorn in the Rain
-Has more immidiate power in Rain than Volcarona, has immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes and can't be trapped by Dugtrio
-Immunity to Ground, 4x resistance to Grass and Bug, 2x resistance to Fire and Fighting combined with decent physical defense provides good switch-in opportunities
-A great weapon against Sun teams with STAB Fire Blast and resistances to Fire and Grass

Obviously it needs spin support (although it's so strong that it only needs to come in 2 or 3 times a match to do its job), but once it's in on a slower opponent something is going to take a hit, and in Rain Specs Hurricane comes close to 2HKOing almost all the standard specially-defensive Steel types with residual damage, plus you can run HP Ground for Heatran or HP Fighting for T-Tar.

It may seem like more hassle than its worth, but it can be an excellent wallbreaker on a Rain team.
 
Going to suggest Sandslash for at least D rank. It's a somewhat niche pokemon, but it's a spinner that can reliably defeat spinblockers. Expert Belt / LO Shadow Claw OHKOes Gengar 35% / 70% of the time at +0 and it's a guaranteed KO with SR. Standard Jellicent (248 / 216) is OHKOed at +2 after SR if packing a Ghost Gem. It can also serve as a great sand sweeper, but it completes with Landorus in that regard; who can get past some stuff (Gliscor and other Landorus) with HP Ice and is a lot harder to outpace (if not virtually impossible) after an RP boost.

It's perfect for D-rank - small niche, and requires some support; but it pulls off its job pretty well.
 


Alright, since we've started the "lets fill D-tier with niche pokemon" train, I'm gonna hop on board and suggest that Kabutops would make a good candidate for D-tier. It's a seriously underrated threat - with a Life Orb and a moveset of Waterfall/Stone Edge/Low Kick/Rain Dance or Swords Dance, it can quite easily get a clean sweep vs. weakened rain/sand teams. I'm not calling it stellar by any means - it has its fair share of problems, such as a bad defensive typing (albeit a good one offensively), which leaves it with a number of common weaknesses, most notably to Mach Punch. With its subpar base 80 Speed, it is also completely dependent on rain to function, which you either have to set up manually or hope that the opponent has a Politoed on their team. However, given rain's ubiquitous nature in this metagame, Kabutops has enough of a niche to be a viable anti-metagame sweeper.
 
hmmmm well i think Mamoswine deserves a spot in the A tier.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

while it can't upfront sweep teams it checks and stops so many pokemon. A lot of them are very common pokemon like Dragon-types and the therians. Dragonite, Salamence, Tornadus-T, Thunderous-T, Landorus-T are all ohko'd with Ice Shard after Stealth Rock damage assuming Mamoswine is the common Adamant Life Orb set. Its Earthqauke is also extremely powerful coming of 130 attack. He has got a great offensive stab combination to back up his great attack stat as well. As the description of the A Rank says the pokemon needs some support and has some flaws which is also what Mamoswine has. The only things holding Mamoswinee back is its weakness to two powerful types in OU Water and Fighting.
The Life Orb variant is so amazing, it checks dragons (excluding Dragonite), therians, and many other pokemon. The lack of a stealth rock weakness and that earthquake breaking through steels makes it ann amazing killer. With paralysis support, Banded Mamo Icicle Crash can sweep teams late-game so easily. I completely agree with him. Mamoswine --> A Rank.
 

PK Gaming

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Time to update

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update
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Zoroark added to C-tier
Liligant added to C-tier
Sandslash added to C-tier
Kabutops added to D-tier
Blissey added to B-tier
Chansey added to B-tier

Sandslash: I took the liberty of adding Sandslash to C-tier instead of the suggested D-tier because Sand Rush puts on a level above the D-tier Pokemon, imo. As we all know, Speed is basically King in Pokemon, and while Sandslash might be a little weak, its strong enough to pose a threat against weakened teams.

Mamoswine: Mamoswine's tiering has been the subject of debate since this threads inception. I think we should focus on getting this issue sorted, asap; I still stand by Mamoswine not being cut out for A-tier (For example, one of its biggest setbacks is its awful speed, Ice Shard won't help it against everything that outspeeds it) though i'm obviously partial to some good counter arguments. The way I see it though, Mamoswine is great, but in comparison to the listed A-tiers I think it falls a smidgen short of being in the same league as them.

Chansey & Blissey: Good stall teams are cropping up on the ladder, and while i'm not sure if its because less players are using HO Deoxys-D teams, i'm almost convinced that Genesect's banning made these Pokemon way more viable. You're pretty much required to run either of these Pokemon if you want to make a decent stall team, so with that in mind I figured they were at least deserving of B-tier. Feel free to dispute this.
 
I would argue AGAINST Mamoswine taking a place in A-tier. As fantastically anti-metagame as he is (Dragons weep in fear of him, Landorus-T is the only Genie that can even THINK of switching in on him), that makes him niche in my opinion. The way the metagame developed makes him the bane he is. Imagine if the metagame was incredibly stall-oriented like it was in GSC, with a bunch of bulky waters: Mamoswine wouldn't be the feared Avenger he is today. Don't get me wrong, he is still (and I can't stress this enough) possibly the best revenge killer in today's metagame, but that's kinda it.
 

Molk

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So uh, I don't play OU that much, so I dont have nearly as much metagame knowledge as some of you, but I guess I'll post my opinion on a Pokemon I've just absolutely loved using since Gene meta. Also pardon my horrible prose, its really early in the morning and tbh im kinda nervous lol ;-;.

I propose adding Weavile to at least C rank. Weavile has done excellently for me every time I've used it, and while it may seem like an average to mediocre physical attacker at first glance, its unique Speed stat and combination of moves gives it a notable niche in the OU metagame. Between its two STAB moves in the form of Ice Shard and Ice Punch, Weavile is one of the best options for dealing with the various Dragon-types in the OU tier, revenge killing threats such as Garchomp, Lati@s, and Dragon Dance Salamence with ease. Weavile's Ice Shard also comes in handy when dealing with Tornadus-T, Landorus-I, Thundurus-T, and Gliscor, among other things. Weavile seperates itself from fellow Dragon slayer Mamoswine with a combination of its blazing 125 Speed stat, which allows Weavile to nail multiple targets with Ice Punch that Mamoswine could never hope to outspeed, and its access to STAB Pursuit, which gives Weavile the ability to trap and eliminate Ghost and Psychic-types such as Lati@s, Starmie, Gengar, and Alakazam without a second thought.

Weavile does have quite a few flaws that hold it back, though. For one thing, Weavile's Ice typing is a mixed blessing, for while it gives it the ability to use STAB Ice Shard and Ice Punch, it also leaves Weavile with crippling weaknesses to moves such as Stealth Rock, Bullet Punch, and Mach Punch, drastically reducing its already short lifespan. Weavile is also surprisingly easy to wall early game due the low BP of its attacks, with its strongest STAB attack having a measly 75 BP. Because of this, Weavile relies on hitting the opponent for super effective damage to function well, kind of like an Electivire that actually has a purpose in life. Despite its flaws, I feel that Weavile is completely deserving of at least C rank. I would even go as far as to say that Weavile fits in B rank, but I wouldnt place it any higher than that.
 

Reymedy

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So uh, I don't play OU that much, so I dont have nearly as much metagame knowledge as some of you, but I guess I'll post my opinion on a Pokemon I've just absolutely loved using since Gene meta. Also pardon my horrible prose, its really early in the morning and tbh im kinda nervous lol ;-;.

I propose adding Weavile to at least C rank. Weavile has done excellently for me every time I've used it, and while it may seem like an average to mediocre physical attacker at first glance, its unique Speed stat and combination of moves gives it a notable niche in the OU metagame. Between its two STAB moves in the form of Ice Shard and Ice Punch, Weavile is one of the best options for dealing with the various Dragon-types in the OU tier, revenge killing threats such as Garchomp, Lati@s, and Dragon Dance Salamence with ease. Weavile's Ice Shard also comes in handy when dealing with Tornadus-T, Landorus-I, Thundurus-T, and Gliscor, among other things. Weavile seperates itself from fellow Dragon slayer Mamoswine with a combination of its blazing 125 Speed stat, which allows Weavile to nail multiple targets with Ice Punch that Mamoswine could never hope to outspeed, and its access to STAB Pursuit, which gives Weavile the ability to trap and eliminate Ghost and Psychic-types such as Lati@s, Starmie, Gengar, and Alakazam without a second thought.

Weavile does have quite a few flaws that hold it back, though. For one thing, Weavile's Ice typing is a mixed blessing, for while it gives it the ability to use STAB Ice Shard and Ice Punch, it also leaves Weavile with crippling weaknesses to moves such as Stealth Rock, Bullet Punch, and Mach Punch, drastically reducing its already short lifespan. Weavile is also surprisingly easy to wall early game due the low BP of its attacks, with its strongest STAB attack having a measly 75 BP. Because of this, Weavile relies on hitting the opponent for super effective damage to function well, kind of like an Electivire that actually has a purpose in life. Despite its flaws, I feel that Weavile is completely deserving of at least C rank. I would even go as far as to say that Weavile fits in B rank, but I wouldnt place it any higher than that.
Well yes, why nobody did mind him?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4479923&postcount=761
 
Fire/Ghost is a niche typing, but it doesn't bring anything very notable to the table that sun teams require that can't be done already by something else. Chandelure requires hefty amounts of support to have a chance to make an impact, but to be honest the risk isn't really worth the reward.
Sorry for being insistent, but that's not very true. Fire/Ghost is a amazing typing to sun teams that have troubles with sinergy, with not only three immunities, but resistances to commun attacks like U-turn and Bullet Punch. With Flash Fire, it also prevent the opponente to do heavy damage with a counter-attacker to sun teams, as Victini and other great wallbreakers will fail to tank others sun-boosted Flare Blitz and Fire Blast. It's obvious that Victini is greater to V-Create spam everything and Heatran with very good bulk, but Chandelure have its advantages that make D-tier just too low for it. Eliminating things like Blissey, that try to wall it very often, is a very good reward to sun sweepers end the game. Blisseys will come in Chandelure much more often than versus Victini. Chandelure is one of the bests, if not the best (at least on the special side) wallbreakers for sun. If even Aerodactyl and Metagross were added to C-tier, why not Chandelure? They have advantages against Sun teams and Tornadus-T/Outrage-locked Dragon-types, respectively, but also have some flaws too, much like Chandelure.
 

SJCrew

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ISR, you ironically managed to drive his point home about Chandelure being defensively redundant. Ninetales itself already resists Bullet Punch and U-turn, so Sun teams have no problem checking the likes of Scizor, Jirachi, and other minor defensive threats that are weak to Fire.

You also mention Victini, which is flat out better, and makes Chandelure all but outclassed as a wallbreaker. Consider the fact that Victini lures in Heatran, which is far more common on all types of teams and a greater threat to Sun than Chans/Bliss, both of which are usually set up on by Chloro sweepers.

Finally, Chandelure brings about an extra Ground/Rock weakness, and as a special attacker, it gives Tyranitar an avenue to trap it and remove it from the match very easily, even if you plan to spam Hidden Power Fighting for the duration of the match. Also, most Tyranitar sets are slower than Victini even at -1, and LO Victini can ruin its trapping attempts by Brick Breaking anyone cocky enough to stay in.

Overall, Victini is a better lure, wall breaker, and team player on Sun teams, and has found more success in OU overall than Chandelure ever has. Even with the Speed drop of V-create accounted for, Victini's higher speed allows it to check more Pokemon than Chandelure initially, and destroy whatever switches in with very little prediction (it's only imperative to predict when Heatran is on the battlefield, since Politoed being worn down by SR and resisted attacks is exactly what Sun teams want).
 
I wholeheartedly second Weavile for C Rank if not B rank. I really think that he deserves the latter of those. Weavile has not only been an incredible asset for me, but has also saved me from losing matches. An example:


It hits 27/55 pokes in the OU tier super-effectively with its STAB alone. And, some may disagree, but, imo, that's all it needs. It's a huge misconception and, in most cases a mistake, that Low Kick must be, and therefore is, run. You can forgo Low Kick for both Night Slash and Ice Punch. I'd also like to add that Weavile outspeeds every poke in OU, including all of the Psychics and Ghosts. This means that, even if the Ghost/Psychic doesn't switch and decides to go for a move, it doesn't matter. Other Pursuit users, namely T-tar and Scizor, will be hit by a move or may even be potentially crippled. A lot of Psychics now carry HP fire and a lot of other Ghosts/Psychics carry Focus Blast.

Calcs to support me:
Bulkiest D-nite set, full HP, Multiscale active
252Atk Choice Band Weavile (Neutral) Ice Punch vs 252HP/64Def Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 87% - 103% (336 - 400 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 21% chance to OHKO.

Bulkiest Celebi set:
252Atk Choice Band Weavile (Neutral) Ice Punch vs 252HP/0Def Celebi (Neutral): 86% - 101% (348 - 410 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 9% chance to OHKO.

Bulkiest Gliscor set:
252Atk Choice Band Weavile (Neutral) Ice Punch vs 252HP/184Def Gliscor (+Def): 126% - 150% (448 - 532 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

Bulkiest Deoxys-D:
252Atk Choice Band Weavile (Neutral) Night Slash vs 252HP/252Def Deoxys (+Def): 55% - 65% (168 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
This one is special because of Night Slash's increased crit ratio. The usual, standard Deoxys-D set is usually knocked down to ~21%.
 
I agree with your sexy, sexy calcs, but I would hesitate in saying you can drop Low Kick. For example, CB Low Kick completely stuffs 252/0 Heatran, OHKOing after Rocks (252Atk Choice Band Weavile (Neutral) Low Kick vs 252HP/0Def Heatran (Neutral): 91% - 107% (352 - 416 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 46% chance to OHKO).

Now, remember, this is the same Pokémon that doesn't give two shits about any of your STABs, and one of the more versatile walls in the metagame. I'll give you that Heatran should be wary of switching in BECAUSE of Low Kick, but you're underestimating just how much it does. Unfortunately, virtually every other Steel has a secondary-typing that makes it neutral and then they're too light for it to be really effective.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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I agree with putting Weavile in C or B-Rank. It's a great revenge killer, as with its STAB's, it can chill the Dragons with either Ice Shard or Ice Punch, depending on which Dragon it is. Also, its Dark STAB in either Night Slash or Pursuit, it can put Psychic and Ghost-types like Alakazam, Gengar, and Espeon in a bad position.

That aside, I'd like to propose adding Mienshao to at least C-Rank. This thing is fantastic in OU from the many times I have used it. With a nice Speed and Fighting typing, it's a very dangerous Pokemon. It has STAB Hi Jump Kick to complement its 125 Attack, which can hit HARD. Things that don't resist it will take a shitload of pain. Stone Edge hurts the Flyers and Gengar, which is also really good. Finally, it has U-Turn as well as Regenerator, so it can heal off the residual damage done by just switching. And it keeps momentum intact. That's pretty fantastic. Not to mention, it has a nice 95 Special Attack to run HP Ice to hurt the Dragons and Gliscor.

Yeah, Mienshao does have some issues which caused its downfall from OU. It has problems getting past Ghosts, and if you predict wrong, it can cost a lot. And also, it's got some competition, though its power and scouting prowess do patch that up. And it's frail as hell, 65/60/60 means it cringes in a single hit. IIRC, Scizor OHKO's it with its mighty Bullet Punch. Finally, it's speed, while good, isn't the best ever, and it does get outsped by a number of things. Though, it has its great niche as a strong and speedy scout, and I'd say that's enough to put Mienshao in at least C-Rank, heck I'd even vouch this thing for B-Rank, simply because of how good it is, but I wouldn't go any higher than that, nor any lower than C.
 

SJCrew

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I would endeavor to say that if you are using something from UU and below, it should usually start off no higher than C-rank unless it performs ridiculously well under a certain weather.
 
i like to nominate weavile for c-rank. i think he fits that role well. he does well for a revenge pokemon and has the speed to do it. He is also a great pursuit trapper and able to take on almost any dragon in this tier by ohko beside haxorus and a full health dragonite. not to mention he can take care of tornadus T with his own speed. low kick is an excellent move for heatran plus 2 weather inducer which are abomasnow and tyranitar and ice punch deals a good amount of damage to hippo.

though he does need support in form of rapid spin or else he is going to take 25% for every switch. something that mamo does not care for. he is also very fragile and weak to 2 priority moves. any bulky water pokemon can wall pretty well.

mamo usually does it job better due to versatility being able to set rocks, eat volt switch, hit harder, and able to take a fire move thanks to thick fat. but if you are looking for something that revenges while able to hit hard and fast weavile has a great niche
 

Lavos

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Nominating Tornadus-T for S Rank.

I know there's already been a lot of discussion as to where Torn-T fits into the ranking system. There's definitely a case for S Rank here - in fact, I feel that if Terrakion deserves a slot as a S-Ranked Pokemon, Torn-T is beyond deserving for said slot. Let's take a quick look at every single good team since the advent of BW2. What do they all have in common? Answer: a Tornadus-T check. It's true; take a look in your teambuilder and tell me real quick how many of your teams lack Jirachi, Rotom-W, or something similar. I'm willing to bet the large majority of most adequate players' teams have one of the two Pokemon listed above (unless it's a Sun team, in which case you generally do not have room for a Torn-T check, and rely on switching Ninetales in and praying for the miss). Tornadus-T is simply that dominating in the current metagame. Everyone knows Life Orb Hurricane spam tears through teams without a solid check that can switch in repeatedly to any one of Torn-T's moves, and that's why the usage of Jirachi has shot up these past few months, and in the case of Rotom-W, stayed even due to the Scarf set falling out of favor with most battlers. Onto the actual merits of Tornadus-T: base Speed 121 outspeeds almost anything worth using (hi Aerodactyl!), 110 base SAtk is nothing to sneeze at when you have 120 base power STAB Hurricanes to fire off every turn, 100 base Attack allows for a reasonably powerful U-Turn and access to Superpower shuts down what would otherwise be a decent check in Tyranitar, and let's not forget the ability Regenerator, allowing Torn-T to regain a third of its health every time it switches out, which means that even if you have Stealth Rocks up, you can't wear this thing down without actually hitting it. Plus, it can abuse Life Orb + Regenerator, getting the free extra power of LO and washing off all recoil damage with a U-Turn or switch. Couple all that with modest 79/80/90 defenses, and you have yourself a Pokemon well worthy of the title "S-Rank".

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
Yep, I'd say Tornadus-T fits the definition of S-Rank to a T. If you're going to nitpick on the "versatility and unpredictability" aspect, know that the Scarf and Acrobatics sets aren't half bad either :]
 
I think Torn-T was beaten into the dirt earlier in the thread's life, and he was deemed the very cusp of S, but not S because he requires rain support to be as threatening as possible.
 
I think Torn-T was beaten into the dirt earlier in the thread's life, and he was deemed the very cusp of S, but not S because he requires rain support to be as threatening as possible.
All he needs is Politoed to come in once and tada! Even outside of rain, the guy is pretty beastly. I'd second moving him to S.
 
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