Agreeing with scorp in terms of countering linoone is nearly impossible to do on hyper offense without relying on a speed tie with your own linoone should you run it. I mean there is no offensive mon that can switch into linoone afaik. Also for those that say HEHE IMMA USE BASTIODON, a decent amount of Linoones run rock smash 9.9 although I'm kinda overselling it linoone cant really take anything without screens but has so little counters that B+ seems fine.
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Project The PU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter trc
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I have no time, but i need to say something about some mons before the next update.
Regigigas needs to be E rank, parafuse is pure luck and you can set up much better thinks in 5 five turns (after 5 slow start turns you only get 2 Dragon Dance boost).
Shedinja have a good niche thanks to Wonder Guard, and is better than anything in E rank and many D rankend mons, him need lot of support and that make him a D+.
Regigigas needs to be E rank, parafuse is pure luck and you can set up much better thinks in 5 five turns (after 5 slow start turns you only get 2 Dragon Dance boost).
Shedinja have a good niche thanks to Wonder Guard, and is better than anything in E rank and many D rankend mons, him need lot of support and that make him a D+.
This may not be as thorough as you'd like, but the short answer: Aqua Jet, Solid Rock plus better physical bulk, ability to go mixed, Stealth Rock.
Barbaracle has alot of moves that aren't 100% accurate. For example stone edge, razor shell, rock slide and cross chop, so both stab attacks have a chance of missing.
Carracosta can guarantee a turn of set up because of sturdy, or even with solid rock.
Carracosta has access to a priority move in aqua jet. This makes barbaracle weak to priority and can limit its sweep.
Carracosta can go defensive or offensive and do both jobs very well.
Carracosta has access to stealth rocks.
Carracosta actually has a pretty decent sp att stat (83).
Barbaracle has a significantly higher speed.
Barbaracle has tough claws which boost the damage output even more.
Barbaracle gets more coverage in moves like poison jab / x-scissor / cross chop / earthquake, while carracosta has eq / superpower / knock off. With Barbaracles coverage, you can hit grass types which check/counter carracosta.
I think I've covered most of the differences between both, if I missed any let me know
Btw, barbaracle gets switcheroo, it can make for some pretty good sets other then a smash sweeper;)
Carracosta can guarantee a turn of set up because of sturdy, or even with solid rock.
Carracosta has access to a priority move in aqua jet. This makes barbaracle weak to priority and can limit its sweep.
Carracosta can go defensive or offensive and do both jobs very well.
Carracosta has access to stealth rocks.
Carracosta actually has a pretty decent sp att stat (83).
Barbaracle has a significantly higher speed.
Barbaracle has tough claws which boost the damage output even more.
Barbaracle gets more coverage in moves like poison jab / x-scissor / cross chop / earthquake, while carracosta has eq / superpower / knock off. With Barbaracles coverage, you can hit grass types which check/counter carracosta.
I think I've covered most of the differences between both, if I missed any let me know
Btw, barbaracle gets switcheroo, it can make for some pretty good sets other then a smash sweeper;)
I believe klang, relicanth, and Avalug should rise, while barbarcle and carracosta should be lowered.
Klang is so strong against an ice spam tier. All of the ice pokemon seemed to drop to pu, and klang is probably the strongest offensive steel type above metang. Klang cannot have it's stats lowered by intimidate or sticky web because of the marvelous clear body. Once it sets up ~2 shift gears (which isn't too hard with it's steel typing/eviolite bulk) it can sweep teams without a resistant physical tank. Being immune to toxic is also invaluable, because stall works so incredibly well in this tier mostly thanks to licki. The only problem I have with klang is that it has one set, and that is - shift gear/return/gear grind/wild charge.
All I have to say about relicanth is that it resists fire and ice, which are 2 very important types in the tier, but is weak to grass, and there are grasses all over this tier as well. He is also bulkier than carracosta. It should be higher though, because practically nothing that does not resist rock can switch in on it.
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lickilicky: 234-276 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Piloswine: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
These calcs just show that these prominent physical tanks cannot switch into head smash and stay in safely. Though, in tangela's case, you need speed evs, because tangelas a quick lil devil at 60 base speed
Barbaracle and Carracosta should be lowered because their shell smash sets are old and obvious and can be checked by the bulky grass types, taunt, encore, WoW, etc etc. Barbarcle has no other set than shell smash. Carracosta has other sets which makes him more unpredictable and better, but they are both forced to switch at any grass type, and this tier has loads of grass types.
I just mentioned avalugg because he is probably the best spinner, and even though he is ice type, his defense makes him take super effective hits well unless boosted/banded.
VIBRAVA
I'm really surprised vibrava is not on the list. I actually think vibrava is one of the best defoggers in the tier, and based on your team, he could be the best defogger for you. Dragon typing gives good resistances to fire, grass, water, and it's immunity to electric is great. Vibraba is the BEST defogger for longevity because it has roost, can switch into all spikes, and web and take no effect because levitate, and it resists SR like a champ because it isn't flying and its ground typing resists rock. Many rock setters are also rock typed, and hate to get hit by stab EQ.I run Roost,defog,EQ,U-turn/toxic. 252hp/252def, eviolite. I would put him C+ tier in the LEAST.
Klang is so strong against an ice spam tier. All of the ice pokemon seemed to drop to pu, and klang is probably the strongest offensive steel type above metang. Klang cannot have it's stats lowered by intimidate or sticky web because of the marvelous clear body. Once it sets up ~2 shift gears (which isn't too hard with it's steel typing/eviolite bulk) it can sweep teams without a resistant physical tank. Being immune to toxic is also invaluable, because stall works so incredibly well in this tier mostly thanks to licki. The only problem I have with klang is that it has one set, and that is - shift gear/return/gear grind/wild charge.
All I have to say about relicanth is that it resists fire and ice, which are 2 very important types in the tier, but is weak to grass, and there are grasses all over this tier as well. He is also bulkier than carracosta. It should be higher though, because practically nothing that does not resist rock can switch in on it.
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lickilicky: 234-276 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Piloswine: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
These calcs just show that these prominent physical tanks cannot switch into head smash and stay in safely. Though, in tangela's case, you need speed evs, because tangelas a quick lil devil at 60 base speed
Barbaracle and Carracosta should be lowered because their shell smash sets are old and obvious and can be checked by the bulky grass types, taunt, encore, WoW, etc etc. Barbarcle has no other set than shell smash. Carracosta has other sets which makes him more unpredictable and better, but they are both forced to switch at any grass type, and this tier has loads of grass types.
I just mentioned avalugg because he is probably the best spinner, and even though he is ice type, his defense makes him take super effective hits well unless boosted/banded.
VIBRAVA
I'm really surprised vibrava is not on the list. I actually think vibrava is one of the best defoggers in the tier, and based on your team, he could be the best defogger for you. Dragon typing gives good resistances to fire, grass, water, and it's immunity to electric is great. Vibraba is the BEST defogger for longevity because it has roost, can switch into all spikes, and web and take no effect because levitate, and it resists SR like a champ because it isn't flying and its ground typing resists rock. Many rock setters are also rock typed, and hate to get hit by stab EQ.I run Roost,defog,EQ,U-turn/toxic. 252hp/252def, eviolite. I would put him C+ tier in the LEAST.
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Am I the only one who thinks Slaking doesn't deserve such an awfully low rank? I've used Slaking with max speed and a Choice Band attached. I love to revenge kill with Retaliate which OHKOs almost anything from full health that is not resistant to normal attacks. The other attacks are Double Edge, coverage, and coverage. Yes, you should switch out after attacking although Slaking has real bulk and sometimes can stay in and endure an attack that isn't fighting. Unless you have an opponent using 6 Protect abusers, Slaking is nothing to sneeze at.
If I ever want to explain to those genwunners and Ash Ketchum fans why Pikachu sucks ass at competing battling, I need something to back it up. Keep Pikachu ranked on this viability list.
If I ever want to explain to those genwunners and Ash Ketchum fans why Pikachu sucks ass at competing battling, I need something to back it up. Keep Pikachu ranked on this viability list.
First of all, due to its Ground typing, Vibrava resists neither Grass nor Water. It does resist Rock, Poison, and Fire while having an electric immunity. That's not a ton of resistances, but you do have the nice trait of resisting EdgeQuake, which is quite rare. That said, I don't think Vibrava's great in PU right now. It does care remarkably little about hazards, but it's extremely weak offensively, it has shitty speed, and most importantly, it's quad-weak to Ice. We have a lot of stellar Ice-types in the tier right now. So many. Off the top of my head, Sneasel, Articuno, Piloswine, Glaceon, Aurorus, Avalugg, Regice, Rotom-F, hell, even shit like Lapras and Vanilluxe are probably decent. Vibrava also gets a lot of competition from the likes of Pelipper, Mantine, Swanna, Togetic, etc.
This is just not Vibrava's moment to shine.
God, Slaking is so, so bad. I too want it to be good, but it never will be. Protect renders it literally unable to move indefinitely. Substitute makes it setup fodder. It's extremely easy to bait an attack and get a free turn of setup, and given all that, even if Slaking does it's job correctly and KOes an opposing mon, the opponent can now choose which of their other mons they'd like to set up for free with absolutely no consequences. That just spells death against any competent player. Slaking deserves E and then some.
Lose a teammate Slaking uses Retaliate. Switch out, lose a teammate, Slaking uses Retaliate. Etc.
It's like you ignored my post.
1. How common are Protect users in PU?
2. How common are Substitute users in PU? Substitute was one of my arguments against Aegislash being too OP for OU.
3. Yes, there are consequences for setting up in front of Slaking. You can switch in a Ditto, copycat the stat boosts, and get your vengeance.
One main thing I'm going to point out: Having Slaking and Ditto on the same team. That's just like taking risk and slathering it with saturated chance with a gamble-cherry on top.
Alright, I'll respond to each of your points.
1. They exist, and they render Slaking useless.
2. Very. Substitute is consistently one of the most-used moves in the game, and for good reason. SubRoost Articuno, SubSD Bouffalant, Sub/Bulk up Gogoat, Haunter, Chatot, Serperior, Simisear, Simipour, Swoobat, Ninjask, and a whole lot of other mons use Substitute. Similar to Protect, your opponent can simply Sub, SD or CM or whatever, Sub, SD or CM, rinse, repeat. This is free setup, and it's risk-free because if you decide to switch Slaking out, well, they're behind a sub. Which relates to my next point:
3. Correct, the only consequence of setting up on Slaking is that Ditto can theoretically come in and copy your stat boosts. Thing is, copying boosts with Ditto isn't even close to a reliable strategy. If you're suggesting switching Ditto in directly, Ditto may well die immediately if if the opponent's setup sweeper chooses to attack, while if they boost the turn you switch in, the boosts will occur after the switch, making ditto lose the speed tie to mons with Agility or Rock Polish or Shift Gear, while tying with Dragon Dance / Quiver Dance users. Substitute also spells death for Ditto. If they have a slow setup sweeper, like for example CM Musharna, Ditto can't do anything upon switching in, no matter how many boosts Mush has, except hit with a useless Psychic while Musharna continues to set up.
The Ghosts we have in addition to the enormous number of good Rock-types make it a coin flip much of the time as to whether Slaking's actually going to break stuff as it's supposed to, while if Slaking does break something, your opponent now has a free switch-in the Pokémon of their choice followed by a completely free turn to set up in order to wreak as much havoc as possible. Ditto isn't a reliable enough answer to the problem of setup sweepers to justify taking up a third of your teamslots with these two. Slaking just introduces far too much risk and opportunity cost for far too little reward.
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two things i'd like to point out in this little interlude.
1) by posting a big list of pokemon to discuss, there is no obligation to have a verdict on them. therefore, lists of people going through the pokemon one by one and saying "maybe, idk", or "no comment" is incredibly unhelpful. the suggestions are just a general guideline for you guys to talk about things you may have experience with, not a checklist for you to go through as if it would be contributed to a vote. we value the community's input highly on the pokemon that you do have experience with, so a paragraph detailing a pokemon's role in the metagame and justifying your suggested placement is much more helpful than writing a massive post with one-liners on each pokemon, with about half of them being "no idea on this one".
2) i'm not dropping clefairy lol, and it's weird that you guys see it as something bad when i'm sure you haven't used it. clefairy has been seen used successfully in uu, and in pu, it manages to work pretty well at what it does. there seems to be this resounding notion that it's outclassed by togetic because of its better bulk and defog, but in reality it really isn't because clefairy doesn't even want to remove hazards or check various random pokemon. what separates itself from togetic is its access to calm mind and magic guard, which allows it to carry out its intended role of a calm mind win condition on balance teams that can be very threatening to stall teams, especially with the support of trapinch. cm clefairy is similar to ou's cm clefable, it has plenty of setup opportunities against balance and can be incredibly difficult to stop with reliable recovery and an immunity to passive damage. clefairy + trapinch has been used by Spirit successfully against defensive squads and i definitely believe it deserves its placement.
1) by posting a big list of pokemon to discuss, there is no obligation to have a verdict on them. therefore, lists of people going through the pokemon one by one and saying "maybe, idk", or "no comment" is incredibly unhelpful. the suggestions are just a general guideline for you guys to talk about things you may have experience with, not a checklist for you to go through as if it would be contributed to a vote. we value the community's input highly on the pokemon that you do have experience with, so a paragraph detailing a pokemon's role in the metagame and justifying your suggested placement is much more helpful than writing a massive post with one-liners on each pokemon, with about half of them being "no idea on this one".
2) i'm not dropping clefairy lol, and it's weird that you guys see it as something bad when i'm sure you haven't used it. clefairy has been seen used successfully in uu, and in pu, it manages to work pretty well at what it does. there seems to be this resounding notion that it's outclassed by togetic because of its better bulk and defog, but in reality it really isn't because clefairy doesn't even want to remove hazards or check various random pokemon. what separates itself from togetic is its access to calm mind and magic guard, which allows it to carry out its intended role of a calm mind win condition on balance teams that can be very threatening to stall teams, especially with the support of trapinch. cm clefairy is similar to ou's cm clefable, it has plenty of setup opportunities against balance and can be incredibly difficult to stop with reliable recovery and an immunity to passive damage. clefairy + trapinch has been used by Spirit successfully against defensive squads and i definitely believe it deserves its placement.
Okay, this has been bugging me for quite a while:
-People say Slaking and Regi-suck-ass to E, which I agree and not complaining,
-Some people say Dunsparce should be moved to E, which is debatable in my opinion because given good team support, the little snake can pull through.
-Farfetch'd is undoubtedly E, nobody questions it, it just sucks.
So somebody tell me why the flying frank Delibird in is D+!!!!
Just look at it. It's stats are actually WORSE than freaking Farfetch'd, it has one of the most awful typing in existence (sorry, Articuno) with 4x weakness to stealth rock, it's only niche (and I use "niche" in a sense looser than a female celebrity under a ceiling fan attached with only one screw) is that is has hustle and even then it sucks. So. Bad. "Oh, yeah, you get 1.5 attack boost on that scary 55 base Attack. Too op plz nrf"
But, hey, it get's rapid spin. I mean, it's not like there's already an ice type with higher defense, HP, and attack that can do it better. Amiright?
-People say Slaking and Regi-suck-ass to E, which I agree and not complaining,
-Some people say Dunsparce should be moved to E, which is debatable in my opinion because given good team support, the little snake can pull through.
-Farfetch'd is undoubtedly E, nobody questions it, it just sucks.
So somebody tell me why the flying frank Delibird in is D+!!!!
Just look at it. It's stats are actually WORSE than freaking Farfetch'd, it has one of the most awful typing in existence (sorry, Articuno) with 4x weakness to stealth rock, it's only niche (and I use "niche" in a sense looser than a female celebrity under a ceiling fan attached with only one screw) is that is has hustle and even then it sucks. So. Bad. "Oh, yeah, you get 1.5 attack boost on that scary 55 base Attack. Too op plz nrf"
But, hey, it get's rapid spin. I mean, it's not like there's already an ice type with higher defense, HP, and attack that can do it better. Amiright?
Delibird is actually a cool suicide spiker, due to access to destiny bond and rapid spin, which is a fine niche it has over glalie, an offensive set would be a joke. Its one of the few niche d-ranks.
Are there any teams which benefit from dunsparce? Thats the problem with the majority of d-rank, they have dont have enough niche to justify usage (apart from a few). Its just a problem we have to rank all of them. I feel like d-rank should be labelled differently:
Most of D-rank dont fit into that catogory. Yes bellosom may have a smallsmallsmall niche, but in reality, meganium does everything better apart from sleeping, victreebell does that better and i dont see the situation where mono-grass typing is better than grass/poison.
Out of all the outclassed d-ranks, please drop the pikachu clones, they do nothing that raichu/smash pass doesnt.
Alright, so while I'm not necessarily advocating a drop, I am confused as to why Roselia is so damn high (geddit?). It has good special defense, fair uninvested special attack, good abilities, and both spikes. However, Garbodor makes a far better spiker, Roselia's physical defense is fairly awful, Serperior and Tangela are both great options with much better physical bulk, and it's an easy target for plenty of the best mons in the tier (Musharna, Sneasel, Scyther, Tauros, Haunter, etc.). Every time I face the thing, it normally gets up maybe one spike or gets off maybe 20% and then dies or forces another mon to take a hit. I just can't understand why it's above Bouffalant, Flareon, Throh, etc.
Reliable recovery, good typing, an ability to switch into status moves and decent firepower for a defensive Pokemon make Roselia worth it. Roselia can stay throughout the match longer than Garbodor can thanks to higher bulk with Eviolite, Synthesis and Giga Drain and set up Spikes for longer, while Garbodor has higher speed and offensive presence. With enough physical defense investment, Roselia doesn't have too much of a problem taking physical hits while still maintaining good Sp. Def. It is worthy of its current ranking imo.
I think there are a few viable pokemon that can sweep with 1 point of HP with a focus sash setup such as Scyther, Carracosta(with sturdy weakness policy instead), Butterfree, and perhaps even Volbeat.
Beautifly from unlisted to D+, All of the weak special attacking bug pokemon got quiver dance to up their power because, let's face it, they suck. in Beautifly's case, however, using quiver dance with the focus sash allows it's swarm ablility to take place making for a dangerous bug buzz. also with moves like psychic, energy ball, and shadow ball it has some nice coverage. But because it is mainly used for bug buzzing and can have it's strategy screwed over by stealth rock and priority attacks, it sits at D+.
Pleas consider trying the above strategies on your team before commenting on them. Thank you
Chatot from A- to B-, Chatot has very little coverage (unless you count heat wave, but that's incompatible). Sure it's got a powerful Boomburst and it's signature attack that always causes confusion, chatter, but every single time I use Chatot I encounter a soundproof Bastiodon. Sure, chatot has a nice 92 sp atk, and I don't know if I'm the only person that uses Choice specs Chatot, but with only a few moves, despite their versatility, I fell Chatot is a little bit overrated.
Beautifly from unlisted to D+, All of the weak special attacking bug pokemon got quiver dance to up their power because, let's face it, they suck. in Beautifly's case, however, using quiver dance with the focus sash allows it's swarm ablility to take place making for a dangerous bug buzz. also with moves like psychic, energy ball, and shadow ball it has some nice coverage. But because it is mainly used for bug buzzing and can have it's strategy screwed over by stealth rock and priority attacks, it sits at D+.
Pleas consider trying the above strategies on your team before commenting on them. Thank you
Chatot from A- to B-, Chatot has very little coverage (unless you count heat wave, but that's incompatible). Sure it's got a powerful Boomburst and it's signature attack that always causes confusion, chatter, but every single time I use Chatot I encounter a soundproof Bastiodon. Sure, chatot has a nice 92 sp atk, and I don't know if I'm the only person that uses Choice specs Chatot, but with only a few moves, despite their versatility, I fell Chatot is a little bit overrated.
Gorebyss literally isn't PU lol. Please consider checking the tier list before commenting on viability. Thank you
And Chatot is basically Stall's biggest threat in the tier. Boomburst hits hella hard and confusion hax is annoying as hell. Nasty Plot makes this even worse
Beautifly, along with every other PU legal fully evolved pokemon, is already listed. It's in E rank currently, and that's very unlikely to change because it has absolutely nothing over Butterfree, which has two very useful abilities in compound eyes and tinted lens, as well slightly higher speed. And yeah what peef said about chatot is mostly true.
Also, it would be nice if we could focus more on actual relevant mons, not E rank trash, since pretty much all of E rank should never be used on a serious team anyway (yes, this includes slaking and regigigas, they will never not be garbage)
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Alright, so I took the suggestion to actually try the Beautifly strategy, and it's very underwhelming. Butterfree does the same thing except it has sleep, meaning that it doesn't have to get hit down to its sash, where it's easily revenged by priority or any scarfer. It's just outclassed with no reason to use it. While I agree with specs chatot being unfortunate due to always running into soundproof mons, its main set is encore/sub + nasty plot which is very threatening to stall, and whenever there isn't a soundproof mon, specs Chatot is an amazing thing to have, with a ridiculously powerful boomburst. It also should also be running hp ground on a specs set which hits every typical switch, making it much more threatening than you make it out to be.
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So I think Furfrou should move up from C+ to somewhere around B rank. His 102 speed is nothing to sneeze at. His ability gives him respectable 75/120/90 defenses. Plus he can learn Cotton Guard, making his physical prowess even more ridiculous. He has access to thunder and toxic, making him difficult to switch in to, as well as U-Turn to he can haul-ass away from special attackers. Plus he has priority with Sucker Punch and STAB Return, which makes up for his ish attack.
However, I feel like he's more B- material.
The only thing that would prevent him from being in B or B+ would be the presence of fighting types and special attackers that could make quick use of Furfrou. For instance, Throh can switch into a status move, get the guts boost, and deprive it of its leftovers with knock off, or hit it hard with storm throw. Also Rampardos can break right through Fur Coat with Mold Breaker. Also if the Furfrou is running Cotton Guard, it can just be Circle Thrown, wasting a few turns.
Thoughts?
However, I feel like he's more B- material.
The only thing that would prevent him from being in B or B+ would be the presence of fighting types and special attackers that could make quick use of Furfrou. For instance, Throh can switch into a status move, get the guts boost, and deprive it of its leftovers with knock off, or hit it hard with storm throw. Also Rampardos can break right through Fur Coat with Mold Breaker. Also if the Furfrou is running Cotton Guard, it can just be Circle Thrown, wasting a few turns.
Thoughts?
That's not how Fur Coat works.
I second the move up to B, I've been using a standard 252hp/252def impish set with U-turn, Return, Sucker punch, T-Wave, and it's been a really great defensive pivot. It eats up hits from almost every physical attacker in the tier, can cripple with T-wave if they stay in, still deals good damage with the offensive moves, and can U-turn out on the switch to some threat like specs Haunter to put even more pressure on the opponent. However, it is held back by meh offenses, bad recovery, and weakness to rest/talk or other bulky boosters that don't care about status.
As those of you who have seen my RMT would know (muh shameless self plug), I've been playing around with sun a lot lately, and I think a few Pokemon related to sun should rise a bit.
First of all, I'd like to nominate Victreebel to B+. While it's not really that useful outside of sun, Victreebel is a huge threat on sun teams. Almost nothing outside of dedicated special walls can switch into Victreebel, since Solarbeam, Weather Ball, and Sludge Bomb hits pretty much everything in the tier neutrally, and what can switch in (Lickilicky, SpD Musharna, etc) is crippled by Sleep Powder. There's also the possibility of it running Growth, which gives it serious sweeping potential. What holds it back from being A- worthy is the fact that it's only really good on sun, is revenged easily by Sneasel, and is outsped by faster scarf users even in sun.
Additionally, I could see Sawsbuck rising to A-. Sawsbuck is a lot like Victreebel in that it's really threatening under sunlight. However, unlike Victreebel, it's actually a good Pokemon outside of sun. While not nearly as good as Leafeon was (rip ;_;), Sawsbuck can still be a threatening sweeper thanks to its good Speed, decent bulk, and good STAB combination. Additionally, it can run Substitute in the last slot in order to set up on something that ordinarily counters it in Gourgeist (in a very similar manner to Sub SD Bouffalant, but better against offense). I'm not too passionate on moving it up, but I think it could be worthy of A-.
Finally, I'm going to suggest Carbink to B, although B- is fine too. Carbink is a great sun setter thanks to its access to Stealth Rock, which is otherwise exceedingly hard to fit onto a sun team, and great bulk, which makes it rather hard for most Pokemon to 2HKO, which allows it to set up both Stealth Rock and Sunny Day a lot more easily than Golem can. Comparing this to Volbeat, which is in B right now, both have equally useful niches as sun setters. Carbink can also run a decent Calm Mind set. I haven't used this set, but Detective Dell has used it and found it to be good, so there's that as well.
To back up these nominations, I'll post replays of sun in action against good players (mostly other council members):
First of all, I'd like to nominate Victreebel to B+. While it's not really that useful outside of sun, Victreebel is a huge threat on sun teams. Almost nothing outside of dedicated special walls can switch into Victreebel, since Solarbeam, Weather Ball, and Sludge Bomb hits pretty much everything in the tier neutrally, and what can switch in (Lickilicky, SpD Musharna, etc) is crippled by Sleep Powder. There's also the possibility of it running Growth, which gives it serious sweeping potential. What holds it back from being A- worthy is the fact that it's only really good on sun, is revenged easily by Sneasel, and is outsped by faster scarf users even in sun.
Additionally, I could see Sawsbuck rising to A-. Sawsbuck is a lot like Victreebel in that it's really threatening under sunlight. However, unlike Victreebel, it's actually a good Pokemon outside of sun. While not nearly as good as Leafeon was (rip ;_;), Sawsbuck can still be a threatening sweeper thanks to its good Speed, decent bulk, and good STAB combination. Additionally, it can run Substitute in the last slot in order to set up on something that ordinarily counters it in Gourgeist (in a very similar manner to Sub SD Bouffalant, but better against offense). I'm not too passionate on moving it up, but I think it could be worthy of A-.
Finally, I'm going to suggest Carbink to B, although B- is fine too. Carbink is a great sun setter thanks to its access to Stealth Rock, which is otherwise exceedingly hard to fit onto a sun team, and great bulk, which makes it rather hard for most Pokemon to 2HKO, which allows it to set up both Stealth Rock and Sunny Day a lot more easily than Golem can. Comparing this to Volbeat, which is in B right now, both have equally useful niches as sun setters. Carbink can also run a decent Calm Mind set. I haven't used this set, but Detective Dell has used it and found it to be good, so there's that as well.
To back up these nominations, I'll post replays of sun in action against good players (mostly other council members):
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