the REAL new threat of Pt. (Bibarel in OU?)

gorm

gorm

is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
let's develop a spread for curse bibarel


let's look at some numbers
namely: weight.
67.4 pounds.

gk does 60 BP. Hmm!!


Anyways the point of this thread is to establish a spread. Base 60 def aint a whole lot even when you're doubling it every turn. We'll worry about attack power later.

obviously the first thing we think about it what are we afraid of here. Stab SE stuff is always gonna hurt. let's see what kinda beating he can take with max stats.

362 HP, 240 sdef. Ouch.

just off the top of my head celebi starmie zapdos, cm jirachi and seem like ideal switches initially, and gengar and infernape can revenge kill.

Calcs:
no satk celebi does 35%~42% with grass knot
naive max satk LO infernape does 35~42% with gk
naive max satk LO infernape does 35~42% with gk
standard starmie does 41%~48% with thunderbolt
standard cm jirachi (80 special attack evs) does 40%~48% with thunderbolt
no satk zapdos does 64%~76% with tb
standard cm jirachi (80 special attack evs) does 40%~48% with tb
timid max satk gengar (no LO) hits for 71~84%, so LO is an ohko
naive max satk LO infernape does 35~42% with gk


i wont bother posting what min sdef bibarel takes, but pretty much multiply every percentage number here by 1.5. almost all 2hkos become, ohks and all ohkos become 2hkos, and all 3hkos severly cripple you.



in return, a bibarel with 4 attack does

Starmie takes 72%~85% from +2 return
celebi takes 35%~41% from +2 return
max hp no def zapdos takes 77%~91% from +2 return
Max HP no def Jirachi takes 39%~47% form +2 aqua tail
Gengar takes 98%~100% from +2 aqua tail

im not including ape lol

see these are some number worth boosting. with max attack bibarel would do 1.4 times all of these percentages, which makes them alot more impressive, pretty much 2hko becomes and ohko and 3hko becomes a 2hko.

with this spread only gengar can be ohkod back, and starmie and zapdos are beaten but severly wound you and with no recovery what's next?


with max def on the other hand, after 1 curse (+2 def), bibarel would take

47%~56% from standard naive 4 attack LO infernape's cc
48%~58% from standard machamp's dynamic punch
56%~67% from adamant scarf hera
67~80% from standard adamant LO luke's cc (no sd lol)


these are pretty much the top of the line physical threats it's kinda clear that as far as defense goes it pays alot more to max that stuff compared to sdef. you're gonna be taking not alot form nonstab non se hits.

let's take a look at all of those other

ouch. with no recovery move and too good a dual stab (imo) to just go "cro"barel (rest sleep talk curse waterfall) (and not that it'd last that long, anyways).

this thing aint pert or lax.

some might say the object of this beaver is to remove special threats and sweep. celebi and zapdos are both scared enough of scarf hera, same can be said for luke i suppose. Jibaku's sdef ttar is also scary to all the special threats bar infernape.


here's another idea though. amnesia in their faces. gaining +4 sdef, even with 156 sdef is wild. timid max satk zapdos does 55~65% and thats probably the hardest hitting common special threat and that's with MIN sdef.


so let's do EVs.



I'd say 252 hp evs "just because" that's the baseline i used for the calcs. givien the offensive calcs, i'd say throwing on about *1.3 attack would help alot so lets raise 0 evs/neutral attack by 1.3.. so adamant 136 evs (a bonus awesome!) does just about that. rest should probably go in defense (120 evs so 186 def, so basically all the calcs for the physical threats go up by *1.3 give or take)

(it seems like LO is perfect but im not down with sacrificing that much bulk with no recovery..)


BigBarel

0400Front_m.png


Bibarel @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP/136 Atk/120 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Return
- Aqua Tail

anyways i didnt do enough calcs... input please guys!
 
STAB Quick Attack is perfect for offsetting those horrible speed drops. I'd list it as an option alongside Return, and I'd also reccomend Taunt as an option alongside Amnesia.

Very interesting prospect!
 
i thought of qa too late ! its a decent idea but even scizor has trouble sweeping with it and his is alot more powerful.

qa can help alot but i dont see it doing enough damage withoout max attack and a lifeorb

just realized the drop in celebis is gonna hurt this alot since that mean bulkygyara can come back!

;_;
 
Would Muscle Band or Leftovers be an option? Life Orb reduces the amount of tanking that this Bibarel can do.

Very interesting, this set could see widespread use if you could maintain bulk and still do a lot of damage at the same time.
 
Turn those HP EVs into Defensive EVs. If you're going to be boosting your defenses, every point of defense you add counts as two (three if you get 2 curses or an Amnesia.
 
He's mid-tier BL. 2HKO'ed by almost everything in OU. You get a Curse off, now what? If he got Slack Off, then he'll be a beast no question. Right now, I don't see him working unless he has a Sub to play with.

He's going to be on Nape's nuts all night long though.
 
Interesting prospect, but with no recovery (Lefties I know but meh) I don't think he'll be able to get enough stat ups under his belt to be a threat. Toxic or WoW absolutely ruins this set as well.
 
Turn those HP EVs into Defensive EVs. If you're going to be boosting your defenses, every point of defense you add counts as two (three if you get 2 curses or an Amnesia.
Click to expand...
thats not how it works lol
 
The thing is, it's hard to decide how important Amnesia is to the set. Curse will power up its Attack stat, which it'll really need to power up Return and Aqua Tail/Waterfall, but it still has no reliable method of healing itself from the damage that it will take. That's the biggest issue with Bihbarel.
 
Amesia is pretty important, the set is pretty decent at best but would be really interesting if you can get this out after your pokemon died or on well predicted switch. Very interesting pokemon.

just to ask, since I have a shiney one of these, would I be able to transfer this to Platinum and get the level up move curse for it? jw.
 
i really overhyped this tbh. the whole set depends on bibarel forcing a switch, so you kinda need like scarf gengar to just have used shadow ball...


bibarel is depressing kinda.. i mean even scizor sweeps better with quick attacks =|
 
A simple solution is to BP it some speed or Attack. I used too use a Taunt-Return-Waterfall-Filler Bibarel with Scizor BPing it Attack and Speed. After an Agility, it outspeeds almost everything and after an SD, it OHKOs everything except Max HP Def Steel Types, and Celebi.
 
Shame, I would have liked owning OU's with my down-syndrome beaver. It's lacking Slack Off, that's all it needs.
 
Without Taunt he is not threatening at all because Pokemon like Skarmory, Suicune switch in and Roar you away. And it lets bulky Pokemon (Bronzong) put you to sleep. I use to have Bibarel as a Baton Passing recipient and Taunt is what makes him work, not the 'simple' fact that he has Simple.
 
Heh, cool idea. Bologo got you beat though, he thought of the same thing. Damn Bologo and his mastery of gimmick...

I don't think this is exactly OU material, but a viable set nonetheless. If a certain other light Pokémon gets unbanned though, Energy Ball might see enough use to fuck him in the ass.
 
curse certainly makes this thing more viable but not by much. as much as i like the notion of simple making it easier to grab boosts, i still have my main problems:

1) mamoswine has had this sort of option available except with slightly better moves. ground+ice stab, (possible) 120 bp avalanche, plus ice shard, and higher base attack makes it a much more powerful option.
2) bulkygyara does straight out normal+water sweeping much better, with the always-excellent taunt to stop skarmory. this bibarel would be a great mid- to late-game sweeping idea if it couldn't just be roared away, and god forbid if you're relying on it as your last.

it's a superb idea but is really outclassed in OU. i wonder how it would perform if bibarel stays UU after the platinum shift?
 
Vaporeon passing Acid Armors and Umbreon passing curses should be taken into consideration...

I can only see Bibarel viable in late game to be honest.

Don't forget about Pinch berries as well, blah blah.

Once/if Deoxys-S gets banned from OU this will be THE guy to pass things to.
 
i have one question if trick room is up and your speed is lowered, does that mean you essentially increase your speed?

If so the Bibarel in TR is awesome. Curse is like 1SD + 1Iron defense + Agilty in TR. Beat that dragon dancers!
 
If only it got Slack Off. >_<

Curse, Amnesia, Slack Off, Filler... Stallbarel!

But without that, he's probably just all hype that will remain in UU. Although, he'll probably be a top UU at that.
 
Even if Venusaur is banned, I'd think a simple Leech Seed from Meganium is enough to counter it in UU even if it sets up. Everything else, though, who knows.

Super Fang should still be an option, IMHO.
 
The set is pretty hard to pull off and sweep. Maybe with dual screens it may work.

Isaac Cruz said:
A simple solution is to BP it some speed or Attack. I used too use a Taunt-Return-Waterfall-Filler Bibarel with Scizor BPing it Attack and Speed. After an Agility, it outspeeds almost everything and after an SD, it OHKOs everything except Max HP Def Steel Types, and Celebi.
Click to expand...
Agree (except I use gliscor), BP recipient is still a superior option for bibarel IMO. Bibarel with 12 speed outspeeds timid scarfed starmie after one agility...
 
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