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Lower Tiers The RU Viability Ranking Thread

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I'm wandering if with the removal of Hail Shelgon can go to Mid or even Top C?

Shelgon is not a bad pokemon by any means -- he is one of the slowest set-up sweepers, yes, however his bulk is not bad, actually his bulk is great and it is much better than Dragonair (lol dragonair) at dragon dancing which will be touched upon in a minute since neither are actually that powerful before boosting. Shelgon is physically defensive whilst Dragonair is specially defensive however Shelgon also has notable special defense whereas Dragonair's physical defense is lacking. THey both require team support but Shelgon is still good.

Secondly DRagonair should go to Low C

Dragonair is not good. He is a fairly lackluster Dragon Dance sweeper since his bulk isn't that great in reality and as a supporter he pretty much only has Heal Bell. Plus, he gets wrecked by Druddigon. That is all! ;D
 
Going to agree with moving Fraxure up from low B rank to mid B rank. From my experience fraxure has always been a pretty solid Pokemon despite its competition from things like Druddigon, even in the hail metagame, and i've used it to excellent effect before. As Druddigon's recent performance has shown us, Dragon is a pretty good type in the RU tier, providing a check to the common FWG cores in RU as well as a resist to Electric-type moves, this gives Fraxure multiple opportunities to set up on common Pokemon such as Sceptile, Lilligant after Sleep clause, Tangrowth, Manectric, Rotom-C, certain Slowking varients, and Choice locked Emboar, making it that much more threatening, and because of Dragon's good neutral coverage and super effective coverage on Druddigon, Fraxure can surely do quite a bit of damage once it gets going, which usually only takes a turn or two. As laurel mentioned, Taunt gives fraxure even more opportunities to set up, and gives it a bit more utility outside of sweeping by stopping Pokemon from setting up hazards, using moves like wish, setting up, or inflicting status problems, which makes it quite the pain for defensive teams to handle along with DD and its power. Also note that Fraxure can potentially use Substitute>Taunt to protect itself against potential revenge killers while still protecting itself from status if Taunt isn't needed/wanted, which is pretty cool. In my opinion the thing that was holding back fraxure to most before was the threat of hail teams, which not only had no trouble dealing with fraxure, but also encouraged the use of things that checked Fraxure, such as Escavalier a bit more. Now that hail's out of the way, Fraxure doesn't have to worry about that anymore, and can be used to its full potential, and i think that it deserves mid B rank. For an example of fraxure performing well, just take a look at Oglemi's dragmag team, it uses fraxure pretty effectively in tandem with specs magneton and DD dragonair, and was actually what inspired me to give fraxure a shot in the current meta.
 
Cryogonal is awesome. I've been using it on my bulky offence team, and it's amazing. It covers my team's terrible Grass, Ice, and Electric weakness with its monstrous special defense, and it having the niche of being the only Rapid Spinner in RU with reliable recovery, it fits perfectly on teams that are in need of a spinner and a decent special wall. Reflect is also a really underrated move that some people seem to pass up over Haze or Toxic, and it's awesome because it lets you beat the standard SR Druddigon if you play around it carefully. Outrage only does ~53% with Reflect up, and it can be stalled out to a point where confusion could potentially force a switch or letting Cryogonal 2HKO it with Ice Beam. Reflect is also useful for the dick Spiritombs that try to Pursuit trap it or deal a lot of damage with Shadow Sneak. All in all, I think it's one of the most reliable spinners in RU, and putting it any lower then B+ Rank just doesn't seem right to me.
 
Nah Dragonair is actually incredible. Don't have time to elaborate atm but its specially defensive set walls a ton of threats and it can easily set up and sweep with Steel-types out of the way. Oglemi's team made good use of Dragonair and I had a ton of success with it. It should be Low B at the very least.

Oglemi EDIT: Dnair for S rank imo fuck the haters
 
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Alright, going to make some updates, and leave some other pokemon up for more discussion.


Updates said:
Gurdurr up from top C to low B
Cryogonal down from top B to mid B
Fraxure up from low B to mid B
Shelgon up from low C to mid C
Murkrow down from mid C to low C

Pokemon i need more discussion on:
Dragonair
Lanturn
(really torn in this one even though i was the one who proposed low B turn in the first place, going to try a specs set suggested to me on irc and reconsider)
Moltres
 
Alright my next act of duty now that Fraxure has been moved up is to move up Quagsire from Mid C to High C.

Like Fraxure, Quagsire took a big hit from hail. Both offensive and defensive hail teams were trouble for Quagsire. It could not handle the Blizzard Spam of offense or the Toxic Spam of defense. Furthermore, its mediocre base 65 SpD could never find opportunities to switch into a Blizzard by anything. Now with the skies clear this tadpole can serve a nice niche in the RU metagame. With the ability unaware, Quagsire becomes one of the best set up sweeper checks in the tier. I'll list some of the pokemon it checks. CM Slowking, Hone Claws Durant, Bulk Up/SD Gallade w/o Leaf Blade, Bulk Up Hitmonchan, SD Kabutops, DD Fraxure, CM Tomb, Klinklang. The list goes on. Furthermore, it also has the ability Water Absorb which might scare things off like Slowking from using Surf. All that's needed now is to hit Toxic, and any physical sweeper, bar ones with grass moves, can be toxi stalled to death with recover. Furthermore, defensive water ground typing is very nice in RU, water deals with pokemon like Typhlosion, Emboar, and Magmortar, ground lets Quagsire switch in on choice locked Rotom-C and Galvantula.

I know I already mentioned Water Absorb, but yeah, Water Absorb Slowking is an amazing switch in to Slowking. You can then Toxic a switch in or double switch to a sweeper.
 
Hail wasn't very common so I don't think it really limited the viability of many Pokemon, especially Quagsire. Also the list of Pokemon that Quagsire checks is quite flawed. CM Slowking, Bulk Up Hitmonchan, and CM Spiritomb are all almost nonexistant. Durant has over a 50% chance to 2HKO Quagsire after Stealth Rock, so it's a very unreliable check. Fraxure has Mold Breaker which bypasses Unaware, and it also has Taunt so Quagsire must rely on getting a burn with Scald to beat it. Water Absorb should definitely not be used because Unaware is much better, and at that point you're just better off using Poliwrath. Without Unaware, you lose the ability to check so many threats. Rotom-C and Galvantula both carry Grass-type moves so it'd be a huge risk to switch Quagsire in on them. Quagsire is outclassed, and I think that moving it up is unnecessary.

EDIT: Lanturn can definitely be Mid B. It's immune to Volt Switch which got more common recently, checks various special attackers including Moltres which is really important, and works well in a VoltTurn core of its own by being a great defensive pivot. It's fine in either Mid or Low tbh.
 
I recently tried testing some stuff that was not on the list and one of them just blew my mind. Muk. With good attack and very nice defenses on the special side and above average on the physical side (with a good defensive typing for RU, resisting fighting, bug and grass which are very common attacking types) it's not hard to come in and take a hit from something it forces out (which is way more then you would expect) then smash things to bits with a CB boosted move. Access to the elemental punches, brick break and payback/shadow sneak is good coverage (mostly Fire Punch since things like Escavalier/Durant love to come in on it, thinking they got a free turn) Poison is not that good of an offensive type but it makes up for it with the sheer power of Gunk Shot. It is very slow but it has Shadow Sneak to sorta bypass that issue. For a wad of gunk it has quite some versatility too. A potential subpunch or curse set is dangerous if the opponent expected a CB set. Give it a spin and see for yourself. I am currently thinking of High-C for Muk.

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Payback (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Uxie: 200-236 (56.49 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 448-528 (130.61 - 153.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Not many things are safe switching into it. Except some bulky steel types but they need to be wary of Brick Break/Fire Punch.



I am not completely sure about this one but i am going to suggest Omastar to Low-A. Once it's counters are gone (which is usually only 1-2 a team) it's going to wreck face. Setting up isn't that hard as people say due to Lum/Slow voltturn or if you sac something to something Omastar can set up on. When i fight someone with an Omastar I am always 100% weary of this but even then it's not easy to play around. Just the idea of an Omastar in the back forces you to play very cautiously or you will get swept or plown huge holes in your team. The hazard set has been very annoying to face until it reveals its set because if you mistake the one for the other then it's going to be a big threat to your team. For these reasons I think Omastar should be Low-A.

(Sorry i suck at wording things, I might sound a bit too enthuasastic but i hope my points are made)
 
Man, every time I check on to this thread it manages to get saltier lol. I know I'm not a mod or anyone worth listening to, but if everyone could just turn down the unnecessary aggression and rudeness, maybe keep the bandwagoning and hive-minding to a minimum, I'm pretty confident this thread would be so much more efficient (also chill, I like chill '-'). I know it's the internet, freedom in anonymity and all that good ish, but I don't think a little respect and open-mindedness towards your fellow users is all too much to ask, we're all friends here n_n Ok, steppin' off the soap box now, sorry for those of you this doesn't apply to, but I felt it had to be said at some point '~'


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Ok, so actual content would probably be nice I'd imagine, and I feel I have enough experience at this point to talk about this 'mon confidently lol. Anywho, Mushy is a 'mon I picked up a while ago, and one that I've been pretty consistently impressed by in my usage of it, and for that reason I'd like to push for it to move up a little bit. For a quick summary of sorts, while Mushy could very easily be mistaken for nothing more than a poor man's Uxie (who has a very similar movepool, a very relevant ability in Levitate, slightly better physical bulk, higher Speed, and of course Stealth Rock), it definitely retains some very valuable traits that allow it to retain a solid niche in the metagame. Two of these traits can be found in it's movepool, namely Moonlight and Baton Pass. I shouldn't have to say that reliable recovery is a pretty big deal, and this is especially nice on a 'mon like Mushy, as it allows it to much more comfortably sponge repeated hits without Wish support or anything of the like, making it a very plausible conservative sweeper via Calm Mind. What's more, Musharna can utilize moves such as Heal Bell and Baton Pass to overcome certain checks and counters while simultaneously providing team support, adding to its versatility. Speaking of Baton Pass, the moderately slow Baton Pass it offers is pretty clutch for a ton of different scenarios, ranging from bringing in a frail sweeper for free to minimizing the impact of Pursuit while retaining momentum (though Esca still puts it in an uncomfortable position '~').

That said, I feel as though Mushy has become a better choice in the current metagame. While I won't say heavy offense is by any means bad or non-existent, as both statements are egregiously false, I will say that the opportunities presented to conservative sweepers to set up have increased substantially as of late, and Musharna is one of the better Pokemon to do so. Depending on what Mushy runs in it's final moveslot (assuming CM / Moonlight / STAB), it is capable of setting up on a plethora of common Pokemon, including but not limited to Lefties Drudd, non-boosting Slowking, Uxie, Emboar, Sigilyph, Momo, Mesprit, and Tangrowth, and even then their are common 'mons like 'Tomb that, while technically "walling" Mushy, are essentially set-up bait for BP variants. That said, I do feel as though Mushy fits comfortably in Low A Rank as it stands, being capable of sweeping, walling, and / or supporting the majority of the tier in one manner or another, while retaining issues that hinder it (doesn't handle [t]spikes all too well, minor 4mss, pursuit being such a mainstay for offense) but don't necessarily prevent it functioning handily. Thanks for your time n_n
 
I guess now I'll respond to some of these proposals since I have nothing better to do.

Dragonair: After trying out Oglemi's Bulky DD+RestTalk set, I gotta say I'm pretty impressed by Dragonair's performance. It sweeps very well because Outrage has very good coverage outside of Steel-types, of which we have Magneton to remove. As Druddigon has shown us, Dragonair's typing is excellent by RU standards, and it can take on many special threats such as Sceptile, Magmortar, etc. with its special bulk and set up easily. RestTalk doesn't seem that great, but Dragonair can do something while asleep, and it also has Marvel Scale to take physical hits well too. This thing is pretty impressive, I support a move to Low B.

Omastar:
I'm not too sure on this one, but I can see this one being Low A. I've used this thing before, and honestly, it's a monster. After a Smash boost, very little can stand up to Omastar's sweep, and its coverage means few things can wall it. Omastar also outspeeds Scarf Rotom-C after a Smash, which is awesome. Omastar does very well at sweeping overall. The hazards set, though, is also pretty good. Omastar does really well at setting up SR+Spikes early game, and has Scald and physical bulk to take some good hits while setting up hazards. Unlike Smeargle and Crustle, Omastar has nice resistances, so it can also check threats like Entei and Braviary while grab opportunities to set up hazards. Again, I'm not too sure on this, but I can definitely see this one higher.

Musharna: Yeah I'd be cool with Low A on this one. It's a pretty good bulky sweeper, having powerful bulk and recovery to set up CM pretty well, while it can also support its team with Heal Bell or Baton Pass, so it can be either a cleric or pivot depending on what you'd like. Speaking of which, the capability as a pivot is pretty nice, so if you're running something frail you can toss in Musharna, attract something like Absol, then BP. It has some flaws that prevent it from being Mid A or higher, and there are other Psychic-types such as Mesprit, but I feel Musharna is pretty good and has its own very good niche and I'd support this move.
 
After talking with DTC on irc i thought this'd be worth bringing up, especially since the mon was really only placed down in B because of Nidoqueen's effect on the metagame.

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So, what does everyone think about bringing Steelix up from top B rank to any spot in A rank?

Steelix has always been a great defensive Pokemon in the RU tier (even during the Nidoqueen metagame where it ended up threatened a lot it was solid), and with all kinds of powerful physical threats that struggle with Steelix running around such as Druddigon, Aggron, Escavalier, Cinccino, and Bouffalant running around, i think it's probably deserving of more than top B at the moment. Steelix is easily one of the best Pokemon to use on balanced and stall teams imo, it sets up Stealth Rock reliably because of its bulk and Sturdy ability, beats a wide variety of physical threats with ease thanks to its amazing physical bulk and slew of resistances, such as Druddigon, Aggron, Escavalier, Kabutops lacking Waterfall, Cinccino, Durant to an extent because of Superpower Aerodactyl, Drapion, Klinklang, and physical Sceptile, some of which have few solid counters otherwise (Aggron and Druddigon are two good examples) and phazes with roar to stop boosting threats in their tracks and rack up hazards damage. Between all of this i find that Steelix easily fixes quite a few holes in almost any bulky team in just one teamslot, which is incredibly invaluable. Another great thing to note is that Steelix pairs well with other common bulky offensive and defensive Pokemon such as Slowking, Qwilfish, Roselia, Amoonguss, and Alomomola that can help cover threats that Steelix can't wall such as Entei, Sceptile, Lilligant, and Moltres, and can support it in other ways such as setting up more hazards to increase the amount of damage repeated roars rack up, or passing massive Wishes to it to maximize the iron snake's longevity and make it an even better wall than it already is. Also note that while Steelix's Attack stat is somewhat average compared to other Pokemon such as Rhydon, its potentially high BP moves such as Gyro Ball and Earthquake make up for that somewhat, having a maximum of 150 and 100 Bp respectively, so Steelix isn't dead weight outside of switching in on threats (i've even heard things about offensive tank Steelix being viable, haven't seen it in practice though). Not to say Steelix doesn't have some flaws that hold it back such as low speed and somewhat poor special bulk, but i feel that Steelix brings enough to a team to bypass these flaws and possibly become a solid A rank Pokemon.
 
I'll respond to the only one I have any real experience with:

Steelix: I would fully support this. As someone who has used Steelix a lot for the past year, even during the Nidoqueen meta, I can attest to how effective it is. Steelix has an amazing defensive and offensive typing that lets it not only check top threats such as Escavalier, SubCM Mesprit/Uxie), Aggron, and Druddigon, but it also is able to fend off the two things most other hazard users struggle with; Rapid Spinners and Taunt users. Between Gyro Ball and Earthquake, every common spinner and Taunt user is hit for super effective damage. While Steelix doesn't have amazing special bulk, a simple 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpDef EV spread with a Relaxed nature allows it to check some special attackers. Rotom-N, Galvantula, non-HP Fire Liligant, and Manectric (watch out for Flamethrower/Overheat!) are just some of the special attackers that it can check thanks to that defensive typing. Not sure about an offensive tank being viable, but Sheer Force would certainly keep it within the realm of possibilities I suppose. Steelix is also pretty easy to form a defensive core with and it helps that Slowking (any variant really as I've even used Specs Slowking very successfully with Steelix) is one of the best partners Steelix can have. Of course, Druddigon, Alomomola, and Poliwrath are other good defensive partners and its defensive typing lets it be a fallback option for many choiced users. Slowking, Druddigon, and Mesprit are just a few examples of this. I would support a move Mid A, but I guess I would be ok with a move to Low A if others feel Mid A is too high.
 
Alright, time to make some updates

Updates said:
Lanturn up from low B rank ---> mid B rank
Muk added to mid C rank
Omastar up from top B rank ---> low A rank
Steelix up from top B rank ---> mid A rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion

Musharna
Dragonair

Musharna looks really interesting now that hail isn't around to nerf moonlight, i'd like to try it out myself and get some more discussion on it before moving it officially though. I think Calm Mind+Baton Pass looks really fun to use, especially with some speed creep to evade things like Spiritomb's Pursuit with Baton Pass.
 
Hey, it's time for my weekly drunk post ;), apparently that's what it has become. I propose both magnetron and jynx move up from high b to some A position, as I can't seem to make a team w/o magneton now adays as it is so useful w/ 3 great abilities, and the scarf set can revenge p much anything. Jynx has a couple of superb sets, all utilizing lk screwing over certain sleep absorbers Lund saws buck and bouffal ant, whole also having huge HUGE spa and a diverse move pool let me know what you think ;).
 
Jynx was moved down to b iirc because of sr weakness and major physical frailty. This hasn't changed. Many of it's checks are also very popular, such as escavalier, slowking and entei. This hasn't changed either. Jynx is a good mon sure, but it has a lot of flaws which imo prevent it from being a rank.

Magneton I can agree with though. Removing escavalier, durant, aggron and weakening steelix is incredibly useful for the vast majority of teams, and even if they don't have a steel type, magneton is bulky, has fucktons of resists and hits decently hard with 120 base special attack. P cool mon that has a lot of utility, so y low a seems good for magneton imo.
 
lol I propose Magneton a while ago and Molk was supposed to move him up, apparently he didn't.

I am going to propose Whimsicott -> Mid/Top C

Whimsicott is an amazing subseeder it is by far his best set he destroys!!!!!!

Whimsicott is actually a pretty effective pokemon in the current meta-game. I just decided "ahh fuck it" and use him and I was pleasantly surprised. The set I used was:
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Encore
- Leech Seed
- Stun Spore

The prankster Stun Spore is really helpful, especially on the team I was using which was basically just playing mindgames with the opponent using lots of switching with Volt Switch, U-Turn and Baton Pass although besides Lanturn all of my pokemon were fairly frail. Stun Spore was great in preventing sweeps, especially things like Klinklang (I can Volt Switch with Manectric/Lanturn into Whimsi on the turn of set-up which breaks the sub) and SD Feraligatr. Encore is a brilliant momentum grabber coupled with U-Turn which I loved using and Leech Seed was also very effective at causing switches. Now of course this is only one set but it has lots of utility and with Whimsicott's reasonably good movepool you can mix-and-match for the needs your team has.
Earlier I battled with Turtleye. Now my playstyle was actually pretty effective here but both Turtleye and I agree who the MVP of the match was; http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oriserver-ru-41994. Now obviously I'm not saying Whimsicott is top-tier or anything, this is only Mid/Top C, but is he as bad as Marowak? The answer is no. On that note.

I am going to propose Marowak -> Top/Mid D

I don't know how this got through when we started sending stuff from C rank to D rank since Marowak is a one trick pony, Trick Room, and he can't even set it himself. Sure, he is powerful, but he doesn't have a good defenseive typing nor special bulk, two things that limit it too much in a tier with a lot of grass types and special attackers. Most of the threats in RU he can't stand up to and while he can hit the mojority of them very hard, he has no shot at out-speeding them. All he is is a Trick Room sweeper, and that single niche that is shared with so many other pokemon places him squarely in D rank.
 
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I've always been of the opinion that Whimsicott is pretty bad actually. Its Low C because of its ability to set up Sun very reliably, but otherwise, I just really think its not worth using at all in most cases. A priority Encore or Stun Spore is OK but I really don't feel like Whimsicott does very much more than just crippling the opponent and then using U-turn. This is assuming it even pulls off that U-turn, which usually when I face one it does NOT because it usually pulls of a Stun Spore and then I just completely annihilate it with a strong attack coming off of whatever it just crippled. Grass isn't a very useful defensive typing either, especially considering that Whimsicott isn't really that bulky and most Pokemon (other than, like, Qwilfish) have some way of hitting it really hard. Whenever I used it (or faced it) I really felt like it wasn't accomplishing very much before it died or occasionally got you out of a tight spot, but I rarely (if ever) actually need what it does. Keep it in Low C imo

The fact that Stun Spore can miss is also pretty annoying considering there are pranksters in the tier with Thunder Wave.
 
I've always been of the opinion that Whimsicott is pretty bad actually. Its Low C because of its ability to set up Sun very reliably, but otherwise, I just really think its not worth using at all in most cases. A priority Encore or Stun Spore is OK but I really don't feel like Whimsicott does very much more than just crippling the opponent and then using U-turn. This is assuming it even pulls off that U-turn, which usually when I face one it does NOT because it usually pulls of a Stun Spore and then I just completely annihilate it with a strong attack coming off of whatever it just crippled. Grass isn't a very useful defensive typing either, especially considering that Whimsicott isn't really that bulky and most Pokemon (other than, like, Qwilfish) have some way of hitting it really hard. Whenever I used it (or faced it) I really felt like it wasn't accomplishing very much before it died or occasionally got you out of a tight spot, but I rarely (if ever) actually need what it does. Keep it in Low C imo

The fact that Stun Spore can miss is also pretty annoying considering there are pranksters in the tier with Thunder Wave.

Well yes the consensus of the RU community is that Whimsi is bad but it might just be my weird playstyle or people not liking it on paper, but the fact that it just checks so much of the tier is great. The prankster encore is truly amazing and the prankster stun spore is still very effective, whether other pokemon in the tier have thunder wave or not. Whimsicott usually plays a large part in grabbing initial momentum in fights and is a great way of maintaining it. Strangely enough he is one of the bulkier pokemon on VolTurn teams since he can invest in bulk rather than Speed. He is very handy to have late-game two, especially when the opponent only have one pokemon left because Leech Seed is great to have on him and you can run down the HP afterwards with a bulkier pokemon (in my case Lanturn) and tank some hits, especially with the stun spore. I'll say test it and see what you think then.
 
@Silvershadow234 yeah, I guess that top B is probably fine for jynx, but magneton has way to much utility to sit in high b.

@Celever I definitely agree with marowak, it is pretty damn bad, but I am on the fence about whimsicott. Also when did murkrow go mid c, I proposed low c initially and molk put it there thinking it maybe should be lower than other prankster users. I think low c is probably fine for murkrow still. murkrow is low c, nvm.
 
Kay I guess I'll respond to these proposals while I'm at it.

Jynx: I feel the prominence of Escavalier and Scarf Emboar is what keeps Jynx in B-Rank. While Jynx is a very good Pokemon without a doubt, Lovely Kiss is a pretty risky move because of Sleep Talk Emboar, Entei, and Escavalier, and all three of those Pokemon can heavily damage Jynx with any of their moves (even Munchlax can check this thing lol). Its Speed is pretty good, but it gets outsped by the faster mons in the meta like Scolipede, Sceptile, Aerodactyl, etc. unless you're running Scarf. Also the hail ban doesn't do Jynx any favors either since it can't use that Blizzard. Ice is also a sucky defensive typing in general. Don't get me wrong, Jynx is a good Pokemon, but it has more notable flaws than the A/S mons that ultimately place it in B-Rank.

Magneton: I support a move to Low A. The ability to trap Steel-types is awesome in this meta, with the presence of Escavalier, Steelix, Ferroseed, and Klinklang; all prominent Steel-types, and removing them is nice. The other thing is that this makes it an awesome partner for things like Druddigon (Magneton+Druddigon is legit), HP Rock Lilligant, Mesprit, Swellow, and Cinccino, which all dislike Steel-types. 120 Special Attack, a nice movepool, good defensive typing, etc. all give it some extra utility aside from Steel killing, so it can also just hit plain hard as a wallbreaker or go specially defensive. Electric STAB is also amazing in this metagame. Low A for sure.

Whimsicott: Tbh Whimsicott is pretty meh. Stun Spore, Taunt, etc. is nice, but I rarely feel Whimsicott accomplishes much at all, and honestly as far as spreading paralysis goes, there are better choices such as Uxie, Liepard, Qwilfish, etc that offer more reward in general. Whimsicott doesn't provide much outside of sun teams; the fact that it's the best sun supporter in the tier is what allows Whimsicott to avoid D-Rank. I personally think Whimsicott should be NU because of how poor a Pokemon it is, but whatever; it's stuck in RU so eh.

If SubSeed was Whimsicott's only set it would instantly be E-Rank.

Marowak: Support it moving down, doesn't really have a place on any team except full TR; C-Rank is for something that has a notable niche; Marowak doesn't really have one.
 
My turn to give my thoughts:

Jynx: A lot of my thoughts have been covered on this already. Although Jynx is a really good Pokemon capable of ripping teams apart, the ubiquity of its checks (Emboar, Escavaler, Entei, etc.) really is its main drawback. Not to mention that p. much any Slowking with Fire Blast is going to wreck it since it has no useful coverage against it. Should stay in High B.

Magneton: With Pokemon such as Escavalier, Aggron, and Ferroseed seemingly at every turn, this is a move I can agree with. Magneton's ability to trap and kill some of the most prominent Steel-types in RU is huge for Pokemon like Mesprit, Druddigon, and Rotom-C. It has a decent selection of sets as well that give it added utility outside of killing Steels. A Specs set combined with a base 120 Special Attack actually gives Magneton the single strongest Volt Switch in the tier. Base 70 Speed is enough to utilize a Choice Scarf to get in front of the fastest RU Steel-type, Durant, while also outpacing things like Swellow, Scarf Emboar, and Sceptile. The Steel Killer and Specially Defensive sets shine light on Magneton's amazing defensive typing (it resists EVERYTHING except Fire, Ground, Fighting, and Water). Although the support it gives is a little specialized, the versatility of its sets that it can use to provide such support is enough to move it to Low A imo.

Whimsicott: I can't really support this thing moving up. The only reason I can see for using it is Sun support. Otherwise, there are a whole host of defensive Grass-types that can provide crucial forms of support. There's Tangrowth and Amoonguss for sleep, Roselia and Ferroseed for Spikes, Torterra for Stealth Rock, and Ferroseed for paralysis support (Amoonguss and Tangrowth as well at times) and I don't really see many reasons to use this over these other solid defensive Grass-types unless you're using a Sun team. I'd keep it in Low C.

Marowak: Agree with this move. Even on TR teams, it struggles to find a teamslot with Escavalier, Aggron, and Druddigon being very powerful physical TR sweepers that can still operate if TR isn't up.
 
I think Magneton should stay in Top B. It's really easy to deal with, especially if it isn't running Eviolite because it's not the bulkiest mon around; it usually can't even switch into the offensive Steel-types without losing over 50%, and then it can't really switch in for the rest of the game. The item choice limits it too much. If it holds Eviolite, it lacks the power necessary to get OHKOs on stuff like Aggron, unless it runs Hidden Power Fighting which leaves Magneton more vulnerable to Escavalier. Choice Specs and Scarf lack Speed and power respectively, while both lack bulk (252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magneton: 173-204 (71.48 - 84.29%)). It's a really good support mon, but not really threatening to the point where I worry about it when building teams. I usually think of A Rank Pokemon as ones that can mostly be successful on their own. Magneton is usually paired with something like Fraxure because of its ability, not because it can just sweep through teams or wall a significant portion of the metagame.
 
No one likes Whimsicott :(.

I would like to say Sigilyph Top A --> Low S rank
Sigilyph's cosmic power set fucking owns Sigilyph has an unfortunately bad reputation among the noobier players due to Sigilyph's Cosmic Power set, and I don't mean Sigilyph being bad I mean Sigilyph being broken. If a Pokemon's worst set by far is seen as broken what are the rest of his sets like? They are S rank.
Sigilyph basically has an all-reward no-risk Life Orb thanks to Magic Guard, and even though he is weak to Stealth Rock he doesn't take damage from them -- again, due to Magic Guard. Top that off with reliable recovery, great special attack and great coverage and you have yourself a Top Tier threat. Personally, Sigilyph just does not fit how I play, so I can't attest to having great success with him but my god have I had trouble facing him -- and I make sure all of my teams have multiple counters to the thing. Definitely a Low S threat.
 
No one likes Whimsicott :(.

I would like to say Sigilyph Top A --> Low S rank
Sigilyph's cosmic power set fucking owns Sigilyph has an unfortunately bad reputation among the noobier players due to Sigilyph's Cosmic Power set, and I don't mean Sigilyph being bad I mean Sigilyph being broken. If a Pokemon's worst set by far is seen as broken what are the rest of his sets like? They are S rank.
Sigilyph basically has an all-reward no-risk Life Orb thanks to Magic Guard, and even though he is weak to Stealth Rock he doesn't take damage from them -- again, due to Magic Guard. Top that off with reliable recovery, great special attack and great coverage and you have yourself a Top Tier threat. Personally, Sigilyph just does not fit how I play, so I can't attest to having great success with him but my god have I had trouble facing him -- and I make sure all of my teams have multiple counters to the thing. Definitely a Low S threat.


I don't agree with you. Magic Guard is amazing but Sigilyph's defensive typing is really not that great. And 72/80/80 defensive stats are only decent. Which makes setting up much harder then it should be. Half of the time you can set up CM because the opponent switches to his/her CP Sigi counter. It's coverage is not even that good and it's alright SpA suffers from the only decent Base Power of Psychic/shock, Heat wave and Air Slash. Let it stay in High-A.
 
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Alright, time to make some small updates:

Updates said:
Marowak down from low C rank --> top D rank

Pokemon in need of more discussion

Dragonair
Musharna
Magneton
Sigilyph

Didn't really make that many changes this time around due to some controversy, but hopefully some of the need more discussion mons can be decided on later
 
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