Lower Tiers The RU Viability Ranking Thread

[Molk]

tbh i'd be fine with moving Natu up from low D rank to mid D rank. Although its stats are pretty mediocre all around and its niche is admittedly very tiny, its actually pretty good at what it does utilizing its Reflect+Roost set: keeping hazards away. For example, Natu actually performs incredibly well against RU's Spikers such as Qwilfish, Roselia, Ferroseed, and especially Smeargle, bouncing back hazards and any other attempt at crippling natu and taking their attacks pretty easily. Smeargle is especially vulnerable, as Natu can bounce back literally everything it could attempt to do, and break it sash with a slow U-turn to get a faster opponent in and pose an immediate threat. Speaking of U-turn, thats one of the other things that makes Natu so effective (especially on volturn teams). A slow U-turn is really nice to have to help teammates get in pretty much for free, and Natu can be a great way to do this while also bouncing back hazards and potential status moves. Lastly, having Natu doesn't just mean that you have a way to keep hazards off, but it also lets you Bounce back any hazards the opponent might try to set, making the opponent a little more wary of trying this in the first place and giving you a decent advantage if they do, of course you have to switch Natu in every time a Pokemon with Stealth Rock/Spikes switches in to keep them away, though :s. Anyways, while its pretty mediocre otherwise, Natu's niche is definitely enough to fit into mid D rank imo.

Also, because there would be no Pokemon in low D rank after doing this, i'll probably take Swamp-Rocket's proposal and make there only be two subranks for D rank, unless theres one Pokemon everyone desperately thinks is worse than like Dusknoir >_>.

Lastly, i'm fine with all the proposals for every untested mon, and i'll remove Golduck asap, the reason it was added in the first place was because of Cloud Nine temporarily removing hail's effects which was admittedly cool at the time but now null since hail was recently banned, thanks!

 

[ss234]

Nomming Kabutops for S rank

Kabutops is rlly, rlly good in this metagame. The fact that it beats every single spinblocker(bar champion scarf spiritomb ofc) alone is incredibly useful, but it also counters CB entei, which is one of the most threatening mons in ru imo as well as tanking fire moves from the likes of moltres and magmortar and ko'ing with aqua jet after sr, another one of tops' perks. Pokes like swellow and braviary(as long as you don't switch into superpower)also get checked by kabutops. Aside from dealing with fire / flying types and spinning, tops is a genuinely good sweeper-stone edge hits rlly very hard and has excellent coverage with aqua jet-allowing it to sweep the vast majority of the metagame with just its STAB's. Only dedicated physical walls like tangrowth, steelix(bar waterfall variants) and poliwrath can counter all kabutops.

Also it looks manly.

 

[Oglemi]

yeah I'll echo Kabu for S rank, it's tough to make a good team without him tbh

 

[Magcargo]

I agree with moving Kabutops to low S-Rank. Kabutops's spinning abilities are absolutely amazing in the current metagame, as it can not only beat nearly every spinblocker (apart from Dusknoir), but it is also fast enough to use Rapid Spin before the foe attacks it. Its priority Aqua Jet is very useful, as it allows Kabutops to check several major threats such as Moltres and Entei. Its typing it great because it gives Kabutops resistances to a large amount of priority moves and an amazing STAB combination at the same time. Combine all of these traits and its access to Swords Dance and you've got a powerful sweeper in your hands. Seriously, this thing makes a large amount of Pokemon, such as Scyther, Moltres, and Braviary much, much, much, more dangerous than they already are. Low S-Rank material imo.

I also propose that Sceptile is moved down top either Low S-Rank or Top A-Rank. Sceptile is by no means a bad pokemon, but I think that it has a few major problems keeping it out of mid S-Rank. Despite its amazing coverage for a Grass-type, it still is pretty easy to wall with common Pokemon such as Amoongus and Druddigon and unlike Rotom-C, it can't just Volt Switch out of its counters. Sceptile is also ridiculously frail, with a meager 70 / 65 / 80 defenses, making it vulnerable to powerful priority moves and most Choice Scarf users. Most good teams also have multiple answers to it, such as the aforementioned Druddigon and Amoongus, as well as Entei, Escavalier, and Exeggutor, which is why I believe that Sceptile should be moved down to either Low S-Rank or Top A-Rank.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I also propose that Sceptile is moved down top either Low S-Rank or Top A-Rank. Sceptile is by no means a bad pokemon, but I think that it has a few major problems keeping it out of mid S-Rank. Despite its amazing coverage for a Grass-type, it still is pretty easy to wall with common Pokemon such as Amoongus and Druddigon and unlike Rotom-C, it can't just Volt Switch out of its counters. Sceptile is also ridiculously frail, with a meager 70 / 65 / 80 defenses, making it vulnerable to powerful priority moves and most Choice Scarf users. Most good teams also have multiple answers to it, such as the aforementioned Druddigon and Amoongus, as well as Entei, Escavalier, and Exeggutor, which is why I believe that Sceptile should be moved down to either Low S-Rank or Top A-Rank.

Other than Escavalier and Druddigon, Sceptile's Swords Dance set really beats down on most of the Pokemon you just mentioned.

252 +2 Atk Flying Gem Sceptile (+Atk) Acrobatics vs 252 HP/0 Def Amoonguss: 183.33% - 215.74% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 +2 Atk Sceptile (+Atk) Earthquake vs 0 HP/0 Def Entei: 110.51% - 130.46% (Guaranteed OHKO)
252 +2 Atk Flying Gem Sceptile (+Atk) Acrobatics vs 252 HP/0 Def Exeggutor: 171.57% - 202.03% (Guaranteed OHKO)

Even then...

252 SpAtk Life Orb Sceptile Focus Blast vs 232 HP/0 SpDef Druddigon: 45.61% - 53.82% (2-3 hits to KO with Stealth Rock)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Sceptile Focus Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Escavalier: 40.7% - 48.26% (2-3 hits to KO with Stealth Rock)

What makes Sceptile so dangerous is its versatality, as it can run an effective Special Attacking set and then pull out a Swords Dance that pretty much beats the most of the Pokemon that wall the special set. Escavalier even needs to be careful about a potential Hidden Power Fire, which is a legitimate option considering Moltres is getting more uncommon. Due to how much Focus Blast does and how much it can use a Substitute to screw up Druddigon in most cases, even it needs to be careful. This overall creates a fast, dangerous Pokemon that can create a lot of dangerous guessing games with its sets, and both of those sets are very dangerous in their own right. I believe this warrants a spot for Sceptile to remain in Mid S, it is just overall a very dangerous Pokemon, and is the best Grass-type in the metagame without much argument in my opinion. (and considering how good Grass-types are in RU, this is a worthy title indeed)

The frailty issue remains a problem, but the main priority moves in RU are Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet, the former of which can be played around using a Sub (it OHKOs most of its users other than Spiritomb) and the latter it resists. Entei is still annoying af though with its Extremespeed. None of the other priority moves are very common, and I don't think this should cause it to move down.

And yeah Kabutops to Low S would be cool, its really good etc.

 

[Molk]

Alright i'm going to make some updates, Sceptile and Kabutops proposals are going to put off for a little bit to give them more time to be discussed, especially because common mons such as Sceptile'a placements are more important and need more discussion than most lower ranking mons

D Rank split into just top, mid, and low D rank, natu moved into new low D

Gabite up from top D rank ---> low C rank
Rotom-F added to mid C rank
Arbok added to low C rank
Leafeon added to top D rank
Relicanth added to low C rank
Torkoal added to top D rank
Golduck removed entirely

Pokemon in need of more discussion:

Kabutops
Sceptile

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

No comment on S rank or not but I disagree with Ogles completely, haven't used Kabutops on like the last four good teams I've made. It rly depends on how much you care about clearing hazards for your team.

Also Sceptile is still as good as it ever was and tbf I would always run HP Fire in this meta which helps against a lot of its counters. I've also been really impressed with its SubSeed Leaf Storm coverage set lately, it does a ton of work against a lot of teams, especially ones with Druddigon as one of their primary check to it. I'd accept it in Low S as its checks have gotten more common, but no lower. Also SD Acro set is a boss.

 

[EonX]

Kabutops: Imo, Tops is a hit or miss Pokemon when it comes to Rapid Spin. That being said, Kabutops is still a very legitimate Swords Dance user, even if you don't need the use of Rapid Spin. Considering its extra Rock STAB, that makes it better than Gatr as a SD Water-type imo (advantages over Samurott are hit and miss since Rott has Megahorn to completely shit on Tangrowth and actually stand a chance against Ferroseed) and without Rapid Spin, Tops can afford Waterfall for a stronger Water STAB which is certainly helpful against stuff like Aggron, Steelix, etc. I think it should go to Low S. It helps to make so many Pokemon in the tier better by getting a near-guaranteed Spin, but it still has good use outside of that if you're just looking for a physical Water-type sweeper.

Sceptile: Um, no. This needs to stay in Mid S. Sceptile is, bar none, the best Grass-type in the tier. It's the only Grass-type that Sap Sipper Pokemon actually can't beat thanks to Focus Blast/Drain Punch. Special and physical sets are beastly and SubSeed certainly shouldn't be overlooked as it is the fastest SubSeeder in the entire game (bar Skymin). Perhaps the biggest draw of its offensive sets (other than their polar opposite counter list) is that both carry recovery-based attacks. This means that it's much more difficult to KO Sceptile despite the lackluster defenses since you p. much have to OHKO it to ensure it doesn't have a chance to get some HP back. I also agree with Texas on the use of HP Fire considering Durant is an absolute pain to deal with if it gains free access to battle. It's also cool to weaken stuff like Roselia and Amoonguss.

 

[Hot N Cold]

Mesprit for Top-A Rank imo

Mesprit is a better offensive version of Uxie and can run some sets more effective than the other pixie like Offensive SR support / Ebelt / CM or Choice Scarf, very versatile mon that can sweep with a offensive cm set, lure some mons with a ebelt or flame orb + trick or just a great utility mon with SR + Healing Wish.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'll provide my thoughts on some of these proposals too.

Kabutops: I'd support a move to Low S, simply because of how useful Kabutops is. It is the best spinner in the tier, beating all of the spinblockers bar lolDusknoir, and Kabutops can reliably pull of a spin; this is great and makes Kabutops a great teammate for a lot of Pokemon; including Moltres, Scolipede, Swellow, Braviary, etc. It's also still really strong as an SD user in general and has a lot of destructive potential as a wallbreaker; Weak Armor is also really good to allow Kabutops to stand a legit chance against faster teams without depending on Aqua Jet.

Sceptile: Agreeing with most people here, and Sceptile is solidly Mid S imo. What makes it so threatening is its ability to run both a physical and special set; and even better is the fact that SD and Special Attacker have wildly different counters; a lot of the special counters will get mauled by the physical set, and the SD counters get broken down by the special set. Sceptile forces a mindgame by its appearance in Team Preview; and if you guess the mindgame wrong, Sceptile will make you pay badly. Even then, the surprise factor still doesn't fade as Sceptile will still pose a major threat no matter what with its great coverage, power, and amazing Speed. Keep it in Mid S imo.

Mesprit: Supporting this move, Mesprit is awesome in this meta, and imo it was a Top A mon back in the BW1 days. It's versatile and can be a great offensive CM sweeper, a revenge killer with Scarf, or run CB or Specs to be very effective. It also has cool options like OTR and SR, very good and unpredictable, and can do a lot. I wanted to nominate this but was kinda hesitant, supporting it. (Also it's my favorite Pokemon ever, despite my username).

 

[SilentVerse]

What makes Sceptile so dangerous is its versatality, as it can run an effective Special Attacking set and then pull out a Swords Dance that pretty much beats the most of the Pokemon that wall the special set. Escavalier even needs to be careful about a potential Hidden Power Fire, which is a legitimate option considering Moltres is getting more uncommon. Due to how much Focus Blast does and how much it can use a Substitute to screw up Druddigon in most cases, even it needs to be careful. This overall creates a fast, dangerous Pokemon that can create a lot of dangerous guessing games with its sets, and both of those sets are very dangerous in their own right. I believe this warrants a spot for Sceptile to remain in Mid S, it is just overall a very dangerous Pokemon, and is the best Grass-type in the metagame without much argument in my opinion. (and considering how good Grass-types are in RU, this is a worthy title indeed)

I actually disagree with this. The thing about Sceptile is that while it is extremely versatile and has two sets with very different counters, each of the sets themselves have very solid answers, so Sceptile can only take advantage of the guessing game on the first time it actually comes in. From my experience, it really isn't hard at all to tell when Sceptile is using a special set or when its using a physical set (probably because I tend to play ridiculously stallish teams but meh). The reason for this is that the physical set lacks a LOT of the utility of the regular special sweeper set; the special sweeper can come into matches so easily and just throw out powerful attacks and revenge kill stuff, whereas the physical set is more geared towards late-game sweeps and relies a lot on the fact that the opponent assumes you're using a specially-based Sceptile, which generally means you can't really bring it in as haphazardly as the special set since you need to save that surprise value for a time where you can just set up and sweep. In this way, you can telegraph which Sceptile set the opponent is playing just based on the way they use it throughout the match, and also the kinds of teammates they're using.

Furthermore, even if you mispredict which Sceptile set the opponent is using, it isn't even the end of the world. Because the SD set lacks so much initial power, Sceptile is generally forced to SD on the switch, especially if it wants to sweep. While Sceptile definitely CAN use Acrobatics to nail stuff like Amoonguss / Roselia on the switch, realistically this isn't always a fantastic idea since a) you pretty much guarantee that it's going to be really difficult to achieve a sweep from now on since you're now relying on base 85 attack with no boost to attempt to kill things + if you're forced out you'll never have double speed again and b) all you're doing by using Acrobatics on the switch is killing their special Grass counter, and unless you're running like, QD Lilligant with SD Sceptile (which honestly probably isn't a bad idea aside from terrible defensive synergy, but I haven't seen that so), you just kill something that probably wasn't overly useful anyway (and SD Sceptile is so weak that it only has like a 50% chance or so to actually OHKO standard Amoonguss with unboosted Acrobatics lol). And even after an SD, there is still quite a bit of stuff that handles SD Sceptile quite well; Steelix is a very good Pokemon in this metagame that can come in after you reveal SD and force Sceptile out, you can pivot between like Rhydon and Escavalier to force Sceptile to burn its Flying Gem, then kill with Escavalier, etc. Sceptile is definitely an incredibly strong and versatile Grass-type in RU, but I don't necessarily feel it is the "best" Grass-type in the tier (ie: I feel Lilligant is a much, much more lethal special sweeper, Rotom-C is a better speedy utility Grass-type, etc), so honestly, I actually kinda do feel that it's more of a low S rank Pokemon rather than a mid S one (though it doesn't actually really matter that much imo).

Also, since Kabutops is being nominated for Low S (which, for the record, I agree with), I might as well nominate another Pokemon who I feel is just as good..

I think Emboar is a Pokemon that is really deserving of S rank right now. Choice Scarf Emboar is honestly just the perfect glue Pokemon in this metagame; it handles Escavalier and Durant extremely well for starters, who are otherwise very difficult to check, and it also makes a fantastic answer to the multiple Grass-types in the tier like Sceptile. Unlike Entei, it's also not weak to SR, which means that it tends to last throughout the match to continue checking those things. Even then, Emboar can run stuff like CB, Mixed, and the like which can also be extremely threatening in their own right. Emboar is just one of those Pokemon who I find incredibly hard NOT to slap onto one of my teams just because of how much it covers by itself, and because of that, it deserves to be S rank imo.

 

[Molk]

After putting some thought into it, i'd like to bring up moving Klinklang down from mid B rank to low B rank. While Klinklang is actually a pretty cool Pokemon thanks to its typing and unique signature moves (and the fact that i actually like using it myself) i feel that Klinklang fits low B rank a bit better than mid B rank due to the amount of support it requires to get past one, very annoying flaw: Its limited coverage. While Klinklang has a great boosting move and STAB move to work with, it has very, very limited physical coverage, which means it ends up walled by a variety of common Pokemon. Outside of Gear Grind, which is coming off of a somewhat poor STAB until x/y comes around, Klinklang is pretty much limited to Wild Charge and Return for coverage moves, leaving it troubled by common threats such as Lanturn, Rotom-C, Rotom-N, Poliwrath, Slowking, Steelix, Entei, Emboar, Escavalier, Aggron, and Magneton, among others. Of course some of these checks and counters only beat Klinklang when its running either Wild Charge or Return and not the other coverage move, but its still quite annoying to be checked by so many common threats, especially when some of them such as Steelix aren't incredibly easy to remove from the match, and one common threat doesn't just completely wall you, but traps and removes you from the match no matter what (Magneton). This means Klinklang needs quite a bit of support to consistently sweep opposing teams, and usually ends up only being as effective as it can be very late in the game. Because of this, i feel Klinklang fits better in Low B than mid B in the current metagame.

 

[EonX]

Ok, back for stuffz:

Mesprit: Sheer versatility is what makes this move possible imo. While Mesprit may not be the absolute best at anything it does, there's so many things it can do really well. It can support the team with moves like Stealth Rock, Trick Room, and Healing Wish. It can sweep with Calm Mind (with full coverage or with Sub) It can break down walls with a Specs set that has amazing coverage and utility in U-turn. There's the Scarf set that is a solid revenge killer if you play carefully around Pursuit users. Even the Band set can be more of a utility wallbreaker. Mesprit's really good in the current meta and I'd back a move to Top A.

Emboar: Really agree with SV on this one. Emboar is about the most self-sufficient Fire-type in the tier right now as it doesn't need a spinner to function at optimal capacity. Honestly, if I'm not using Flame Plate Entei, I'm probably using Emboar if I don't want to break down and use a spinner. Emboar is about the best sleep absorber in the tier and its Scarf set does a great job of keeping dangerous threats such as Durant and Sceptile in check. Choice Band and Mixed sets provide great wallbreaking power in different respects. The Band set maintains the ability to effectively absorb sleep thanks to its added bulk while just overpowering the opposition while the Mixed set breaks down defensive cores in a more tactical way; utilizing great coverage instead of overwhelming power. A move to Low S is deserved imo.

Klinklang: I think the rise of Magneton necessitates this move more than anything else. Klinklang has always had pretty poor coverage, but team support has always been enough to overcome it in most cases. However, the rise of Magneton p. much means that as long as the opponent keeps Magneton around, Klinklang has a absolutely 0% chance of sweeping as it can't take on any of Magneton's common sets and is promptly trapped and removed by HP Fire or TBolt. The limited coverage can be navigated around with proper support more times than not, but with Magneton becoming more common and it being difficult to remove thanks to all of its resistances, this means that Klinklang will be dead weight against virtually any team that carries Magneton as it can't break past it and Magneton prevents it from switching out. Low B for this one.

 

[Anty]

Emboar is Low S-rank material

s-rank: Reserved for the top threats in the RU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well with little to no extra support. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Its flaws (too much recoil and bad speed) are easily sorted. The amount of recoil is so high, mainly because of the damage it does, also emboar has a really good hp stat, so the recoil isnt as much as you think. A scarf set could be used to patch up its horrible speed and it can be used as a sleep talker because the main sleep users (lilligant, tangrowth, smeargle and amoongus) do not like taking flareblitz's or superpower. Whilst the banded sets
calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 316-374 (80.4 - 95.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 339-400 (95.76 - 112.99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Qwilfish: 182-216 (54.49 - 64.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These are meant to be its checks, all of whom cannot switch in. If anything can switch in, it doesnt want to.

 

[Celever]

Nah, Emboar isn't Low S-Rank imo.

The thing that stands out to me about the S-Rank pokemon is the "low-risk, high-reward" but Emboar honestly has too much risk involved with him. There is no doubting he is a fantastic Pokemon but the high recoil and inability to change moves (Expert Belt could be interesting though...) stop him from being S-Rank. You have to predict well with him and a lot of Emboar actually relies on the team match-ups. For example if the opponent has a Crustle you can only hit it super-effectively with Head Smash, which hurts Emboar for the rest of the game. Couple that with the opponent having a bulky Grass-Type which are all too common in this metagame and Emboar is dead-weight until one of the two are removed. You could say the same for Entei, but Emboar also has the part Fighting-Type, which is bad due to the fairly common Psychic-Type Pokemon of RU. While it does give Emboar a good answer to Rock-Types such as Omastar which Entei would love Emboar is also far slower than Omastar without the Choice Scarf which again brings up more trouble. Noting that Emboar is also weak to Stealth Rock and the amount of switching is too risky to keep Emboar for a long time of the battle. Top-A fits Emboar well.

 

[Punchshroom]

Nah, Emboar isn't Low S-Rank imo.

The thing that stands out to me about the S-Rank pokemon is the "low-risk, high-reward" but Emboar honestly has too much risk involved with him. There is no doubting he is a fantastic Pokemon but the high recoil and inability to change moves (Expert Belt could be interesting though...) stop him from being S-Rank. You have to predict well with him and a lot of Emboar actually relies on the team match-ups. For example if the opponent has a Crustle you can only hit it super-effectively with Head Smash, which hurts Emboar for the rest of the game. Couple that with the opponent having a bulky Grass-Type which are all too common in this metagame and Emboar is dead-weight until one of the two are removed. You could say the same for Entei, but Emboar also has the part Fighting-Type, which is bad due to the fairly common Psychic-Type Pokemon of RU. While it does give Emboar a good answer to Rock-Types such as Omastar which Entei would love Emboar is also far slower than Omastar without the Choice Scarf which again brings up more trouble. Noting that Emboar is also weak to Stealth Rock and the amount of switching is too risky to keep Emboar for a long time of the battle. Top-A fits Emboar well.

What? No. The main reason to use Emboar over Entei is the SR neutrality, so that its recoil-inducing moves would be less detrimental to it.

As for Emboar's rank itself, I cannot say as I have not used Emboar in RU, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Molk]

Alright, going to make some updates!

Kabutops up from top A rank to low S rank
Klinklang down from mid B rank to low B rank
Mesprit up from mid A rank to top A rank
Emboar up from top A rank to low S rank

Changes that need more discussion

None Atm

Remember, these changes aren't permanent in any way, so if you strongly disagree with any of the changes made feel free to speak up!

 

[EonX]

Ok, since I've been using it for a couple of months now, I'm going to nominate Typhlosion for Top B rank. I feel that a lot of Typhlosion's bad rap comes from people using the inferior (and nearly unviable) Choice Scarf set. For those people, I would like to draw your attention to a couple of things. First and foremost, Typhlosion greatly benefits from the shift to more of a bulky offense-driven metagame as it now has enough Speed to sweep many teams without a Choice Scarf. Typhlosion is actually the fastest unboosted Fire-type in RU (tied with Entei, but it has to run Adamant to use Flare Blitz and ESpeed) sitting at a solid base 100 Speed and only being outpaced by speed demons like Manectric, Sceptile, and Swellow. Typhlosion also has great 3-move coverage in Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and HP Grass/Rock, something that many of the top Choice item users in the tier can boast. However, the hidden gem in Typhlosion's movepool is Eruption. When backed by Choice Specs, Typhlosion's Eruption is one of the hardest moves to switch into. While you will usually only get 1-2 full power uses of Eruption, that's generally all you're going to need to weaken your own checks for later Fire Blast assaults. Unless the opponent has something like Slowking, Lanturn, or (lol)Flareon, just click Eruption and watch shit take damage. Typhlosion also makes for a neat Sunny Day attacker thanks to its high Speed and access to Focus Blast and SolarBeam. While you p. much have to use a spinner due to its SR weakness, this isn't a major burden considering Typhlosion works so well with Kabutops in the first place. Here are some Eruption calcs for your pleasure:

Eruption calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Druddigon: 177-209 (50 - 59.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 205-242 (55.25 - 65.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 229-270 (63.43 - 74.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 230-271 (54.76 - 64.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 186-219 (57.94 - 68.22%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 176-207 (45.83 - 53.9%) -- 53.13% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 149-176 (38.8 - 45.83%) -- 18.36% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Oglemi]

Mr. Mime for Low C Rank

It's about on par to slightly better than Volbeat as a Baton Passer, has great Speed, decent Special Attack after an NP boost, and Encore is always beautiful. It isn't necessarily something that can go on most teams, but its utility is definitely there to be at least ranked.

 

[Jaiho]

Mr. Mime for Low C Rank

It's about on par to slightly better than Volbeat as a Baton Passer, has great Speed, decent Special Attack after an NP boost, and Encore is always beautiful. It isn't necessarily something that can go on most teams, but its utility is definitely there to be at least ranked.

I think Top D is a better rank for it. While it does have better bulk and offensive prowess than Volbeat, Volbeat has Prankster and Tail Glow, which makes it much easier to pass. Volbeat also has encore, so Mr. Mime is pretty outclassed. Low C isn't a terrible rank though

 

[SilentVerse]

So these viability rankings are looking really really lopsided rn, and I think that's because there's a lot of things that are overhyped and are put higher than they should be, so I'm going to suggest of changes to even this list out a bit:

Mesprit ---> Low A
Musharna ---> Mid B
Magmortar ---> Low B
Feraligatr ---> Low B
Ludicolo ---> Low B
Misdreavus ---> Low B
Scolipede ---> Low B
Seismitoad ---> Low B
Swellow ---> Low B
Eelektross ---> Top C
Gurdurr ---> Top C
Shiftry ---> Top C
Cacturne ---> Mid C
Haunter ---> Mid C
Licklicky ---> D or Remove
Simipour ---> D
Cradily ---> D
Muk ---> D
Rotom-F ---> Low C
Scraggy ---> Low C
Serperior ---> D
Shelgon ---> D
Swanna ---> D
Victreebel ---> Low C
Vigoroth ---> Low C
Weezing ---> D
Liepard ---> Remove, it's ranking entirely depends on how lucky you are (ok fine, I guess D would be ok too)
Swoobat ---> D
Rapidash ---> D

I mean, I'm sure a lot of you have had quite a bit of success with many of these Pokemon, but honestly, I certainly don't feel stuff like Cradily is really going to be a premier consideration to any serious team people may attempt to make, so I feel that those kinds of mostly outclassed, but definitely viable stuff should just be moved into D or something rather than have them clutter up the good Pokemon in C who have very unique niches in RU. This isn't really an attack on anyone or how the current rankings are structured; I just feel that a lot of stuff is really overhyped, and that we should try to ease the clutter in the higher ranks before trying to move anything else up.

EDIT: my name is molk and i approve of clearing out B/C rank a bit

 

[spuds4ever]

I agree with the changes that have been made (apart from mespirirt, that should be top a imo due to good offensive presence, solid bulk, and great support movepool) however, there are a few mind that just don't fit into that category.

Steelix is the main is I would say. The main problem with it being that it just can't handle coverage flying around RU. Just looking at all the pysical attackers in S and A. Literally all of them have something that really screws steelix over. Drudd has FP, EQ or even flamethrower, tops can run waterfall, tauros has fire blast and so does aero and absol ant has s power. Hell even aggron can beat it and spiritomb as well with will o wisp.

The bad news doesn't even end there. If you get matched up with stall, alomo can come in and start wishing, seed can come in and start spiking for free.

At best, steelix should be low A.
May add more later.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I agree with everything SilentVerse just put (especially Mesprit being Low A, none of its sets are amazing and IMO its versatility is extremely overrated, all you got in reality are CM sets, Choiced sets (Band sucks), and Stealth Rock, and all those NU Pokemon I usually would avoid) except for 2 of them.

I think Magmortar should be moved to Mid B, not Low B. I still find it a rather hard Pokemon to switch into, due to its wide movepool, and moreover, the sheer power of its Fire Blast (aka a Fire Blast that hits as hard as Moltees). Thunderbolt makes Slowking a bit of a shaky check and it is overall one of the better ways to take down the popular stall core AmoongKing or whatever people call it now. Its also in a decent speed tier since 83 outspeeds Gallade and Mesprit. Do I hate the buildup of residual damage with its Stealth Rock weakness? Yes. Does it usually do a lot of damage though before it goes down? Yes. Honestly I believe it's pretty close to Low B but I still think its a fairly dangerous wallbreaker overall due to its special attack + thunderbolt.

I also think Swellow is fine at Mid B. The main reason why is because it is a great Pokemon against teams that rely on Choice Scarf Emboar as a revenge killer, as it outspeeds it and Sceptile. This + the power of a Guts boosted Facade makes it a very good cleaner. Although it gets completely walled by Rock and Steel types and wears down fast, Steel types can be dealt with (Escavalier and Durant lose to it anyway if they are a bit worn down) while Rock-types... OK those are common and annoying. Nonetheless, Swellow is still a fast, dangerous Pokemon that can quickly become extremely dangerous once Pokemon of these two types are eliminated or worn down enough and provides a great deal of raw power, which I believe allows it to remain where it is.

EDIT: Regarding the Typhlosion proposal, I think Mid B is fine for it. Eruption becomes a lot less impressive after Stealth Rock happens, and if you spin it away, most teams that have lots of walks are capable of setting up Stealth Rock again later in the match, meaning the threat of residual damage returns. Against more offensive teams, priority moves and faster Pokemon are everywhere which also limit Eruption's power. A full power Eruption, while not impossible to get, I believe is a bit hard to come by regarding promoting it, as it requires spin support in order to make Eruption better than Fire Blast.

 

[C AllStar]

I think that Emboar should be moved back from Low S to Top A or even Mid A. After playing with and against so many Emboars since it rised from NU, I admit that it is an really really good pokemon. It's cool typing helps it to check grass types, Escavalier, Durant, Absol and others in only one slot is really invaluable for offensive teams. It's choice scarf set is one of the best revenge killers in the tier, while CB and Mixed sets are great wallbreakers. However, there are quite some flaws for it stopping it from performing its job perfectly.

The choice scarf set is currently Emboar's best set and the set causes it to be argued to be S rank. However, every time I'm using it, I just feel that I need to bring another check for the pokemon it 'covers' due to how fast it being worn down. 110/65/65 defenses are cool, but not too much an upgrade from Darmanitan's 105/55/55, which is considered being extremely frail in UU. It's secondary fighting typing gives it stealth rock neutrality, but in fact how much it has to switch in causes it to be worn down by SR and spikes over time until it is being overwhelmed by the pokes it is supposed to check. Not to mention Flare Blitz and Wild Charge's heavy recoil. Playing against it is usually not difficult if you have any bulky water types since it cannot hurt any of them. These are some calcs showing actually situations.
When Emboar tries to revenge something AND predicts well for a switch:

252 Atk Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 192-228 (48.85 - 58.01%) -- 57.81% chance to 2HKO
Slowking just switches out and recover health via Regenerator, Emboar takes damage when switching in and recoil.

252 Atk Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 142-168 (36.97 - 43.75%) -- 99.83% chance to 3HKO
Great! 3HKO with a supper effective hit!

-1 252 Atk Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Qwilfish: 112-132 (33.53 - 39.52%) -- 23.19% chance to 3HKO
Qwilfish: Hi Emboar, i'm setting up spikes and pain splitting on your face. Maybe I can also fire off a T-wave too.

252 Atk Emboar Wild Charge vs. 104 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 158-186 (31.79 - 37.42%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Alomomola: I can beat you even i'm asleep...

252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 151-178 (38.42 - 45.29%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Quasire: I'm bad, you're worse

These are all exellent pokemons in RU (except Quagsire lol) and are all able to hard counter Emboar, gaining free momentum every time Emboar tries to revenge things, causing Emboar to take hazard damage every time it switches in. Beside these hard counters, things like Druddigon, Rhydon, Aggron, Kabutops, Omastar, Uxie, Moltres, Golurk etc. are all great pokemons and can check Emboar locked into some of its moves. Eventually, it will be overwhelmed by the pokemons it is supposed to check.

Against Escavalier:
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 117-138 (32.4 - 38.22%) -- 98.63% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 176-208 (48.75 - 57.61%) -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 156-185 (43.21 - 51.24%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 267-315 (73.96 - 87.25%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
Despite its resistance to every move Escavalier has, Emboar can only really switch into Escavalier once that's not using Megahorn not in Swarm range. Obviously, Escavalier is most likely to spam Megahorn and isn't commonly in Swarm range while Emboar outspeeds and Ko it first, but Emboar is still a shaky check due to how easy Escavalier can switch in during the match and Emboar's suicidal nature.

Against Durant:
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 79-94 (21.88 - 26.03%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 160-188 (44.32 - 52.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 320-377 (88.64 - 104.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Emboar is able to switch into X-Scissor and Hone Claws freely. Superpower ruins it easily though and it takes heavy damage from Iron Head. Still, it is a good check since Durant usually requires sacrifice to switch in.

Against Absol:
252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 116-136 (32.13 - 37.67%) -- 96.29% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 133-156 (36.84 - 43.21%) -- 85.94% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 265-313 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
Emboar is a great check to Absol since most of the time it is spamming Sucker punch while it is quite hard for Absol to switch in. However, the Emboar user must be vary of getting hit by Superpower on the switch as well as Night Slash + Sucker Punch can deal up to 80%.

Against Sceptile:
252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 97-114 (26.86 - 31.57%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Overgrow Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 144-172 (39.88 - 47.64%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 207-244 (57.34 - 67.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 208-246 (57.61 - 68.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 238-281 (65.92 - 77.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Overgrow Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 312-368 (86.42 - 101.93%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Sceptile Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 420-496 (116.34 - 137.39%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The calcs above shows three common Sceptile sets, Sub+3 attacks, Choice Specs and SD, Emboar is an extremely shaky check to every one of them. The substitute set will often be under a sub when Emboar comes in, forcing it to take a LO Focus Blast while showing its choice locked move. The Choice Specs set hits extremely hard and can even possibly OHKO Emboar with an resisted Leaf Storm when it is in Overgrow range. The Emboar user basically has to use something to take the strong hit before sending in Emboar for the revenge kill. Emboar is in the best position when against the SD set since most people use SD on the first turn, allowing Emboar to switch in freely. However, Emboar is easily OHKOed by Acrobatics. Other custom sets such as Special Attacker with Acrobatics and White Herb Leaf Storm also handles Emboar quite well. Emboar simply isn't a good check to Sceptile.

Against Lilligant:
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 100-118 (27.7 - 32.68%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 125-148 (34.62 - 40.99%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 187-221 (51.8 - 61.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Petal Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 239-282 (66.2 - 78.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Emboar can take hits quite well from an unboosted Lilligant, while also having Sleep Talk to take Lilligant Sleep Power. However, Lilligant usually won't set up early game but rather weakening the opponent's team with attacks. There are two STAB moves of choices for Lilligant. Obviously, Petal Dance Lilligant has a easy time against Emboar since it only needs to hit Emboar once with +0 hp rock and can sweep next time it switches in. Giga Drain variants are usually needs some hazards to wear down Emboar, but has more early game utility with a reliable STAB move. Emboar beats hp fire variants easily though.

Against the five most common pokemon Emboar checks, Emboar actually only does a great job against Durant and Absol and is only an okay check against the rest of them. Coupled with scarf Emboar's inability to deal heavy damage, Emboar usually is only capable to wear down something it checks or sometimes ko one of them. While choice scarf Emboar is cool in theory that it can check so many things in one slot, people already learned to deal with it and in reality it can hardly ko the things it needs to check.

CB and Mixed attacker Emboar share similar roles as wallbreakers. Nearly everything in the tier is 2HKOed by it. This seems OP, right? Except that Moltres, Magmortar, Specs Analytic Magneton, Mixed Samurrott and so many others can accomplish the same thing. While Emboar is hard to switch into with these two sets, its low speed, extreme recoil, average bulk and fairly exploitable weaknesses to Ground, Water, Psychic etc. make Emboar an average wallbreaker. Obviously, it has some perks namely SR neutrality, possibly of insanely powerful Blaze Flare Blitz and accurate moves on CB set, but wallbreaker Emboar simply can't stand out of the crowd.

Emboar surely is a good pokemon in RU with its ability to check numerous threats with it Scarf set and ability to wallbreak with other sets, it is mostly only threatening on paper but many times fail in practice. It should certainly be in Mid A or at least Top A.

 

[Oglemi]

Shelgon should be the last dragon to consider for a team, it needs to be below Gabite in the rankings imo