the penalty against atlhetico was an absolute robbery, i just read the champions news about the match and rafael benitez liverpool´s coach said that the play was an indisputable penalty lololol, he said that was penalty because if the play would have happened in the midfield it would have been a foul, lolol again, gerrard hit the defender like a train when the defender already has the ball at his reaches, the foul was committed by gerrard not against him, there are two options: the referee and the linesman are stupid or they wanted liverpool to draw the match lol.
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The Soccer thread
- Thread starter goldemblem
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Lol. Hand-ball by the Centre-Half should've given us a penalty. (can't remember name of player)
Shouldn't have been a penalty, I'll admit, but all of you who support Man U can't utter a word about Gerrard diving when Ronaldo is so infamous for it. In fact, it's what football has become. We don't want to admit it, but coaches have been urging players to dive and has become "normal" in most Premier League + CL + Eufa Cup matches. Don't get me started on La Liga, lol.
Still, when I was watching Liverpool vs Athletico, I was disappointed. "Spurs all over again" I thought and it nearly was. We attacked and looked great going forward but, as usual, we couldn't convert pressure to goals. We really need Torres, lol.
So Utd. game ended up a draw.
Only thing I really picked up on the match of how much of a bastard player Ronaldo was. When he was taken down he signed flashing cards at a ref which is a no-no if I recall, then he chopped down Brown in the 77th Min when ball was out of play, and had a cheek of complaining that Brown went down.
This season it appears he's becoming somewhat of a spoiled little shit, his first couple of seasons he was young but you would've thought he would've outgrown it. esp. under Fergie. After winning player of the year he'll obviously be a role model, and with theatrics like today, Fergie should drop him IMO :P.
Rafael was also pretty poor it seemed, could never get in his stride, consistently out of place, and instead of being in the back 4 he's about 20 yards away attacking the ball in the centre instead of covering McDonald like he should've.
Only thing I really picked up on the match of how much of a bastard player Ronaldo was. When he was taken down he signed flashing cards at a ref which is a no-no if I recall, then he chopped down Brown in the 77th Min when ball was out of play, and had a cheek of complaining that Brown went down.
This season it appears he's becoming somewhat of a spoiled little shit, his first couple of seasons he was young but you would've thought he would've outgrown it. esp. under Fergie. After winning player of the year he'll obviously be a role model, and with theatrics like today, Fergie should drop him IMO :P.
Rafael was also pretty poor it seemed, could never get in his stride, consistently out of place, and instead of being in the back 4 he's about 20 yards away attacking the ball in the centre instead of covering McDonald like he should've.
That's irrelevant; besides, Ronaldo endures a hefty ammount of criticism. What's more shocking is how Gerrard has constantly criticized players like Ronaldo, for those frowned upon acts, yet he does the exact same thing; arguably even worse. In turn, this unacceptable behaviour proves he is a hypocrit.
Just because Ronaldo dives does not excuse Gerrard's incident.
lol ronaldo was took down several times and a couple of them deserved yellow cards for the celtic players, so if ronaldo saw that the referee didnt get the cards out of his pocket, what was he gonna do? wait until a celtic player injures him because the referee´s passiveness? he had to play rough to keep the celtic players behind the line, just because he is the star of the team and dives sometimes (everybody does that) doesnt mean he must take all the hits from the foes, and then somebody complains because he also hit the foes lol, all the game the celtic players deserved a lot more than man u a yellow card and the only yellow card of the game was for a man u player (nani also deserved the yellow card but why to show him the card and leave the celtic players clean?).
Eh, I'm not saying that it excuses Gerrard's incident, I'm saying it makes the incident less significant as many other players do it. Ronaldo was just the first example that popped to mind.
Calling him a hypocrite is a tad harsh considering you don't know him. "Actions speak louder than words" may be relevant here, but that's not the point. If Gerrard continues to criticize players fr diving, however, I won't be supporting the club hero on that one.
Onto the Celtic game: McDonald's goal was great, Man U should've won due to having about 66% on possession. That's really all I have to say on the matter.
I don't have to know the person to know what he has done; I'm basing this off visual evidence, not some rumor I read in the newspapers. I can call him a hypocrit because he has criticized Ronaldo on many occasions, and he has acted similarily to the incidents he has criticized.
Why does it make Gerrard's incident less significant because Ronaldo - and, of course, many more players - have dove in the past and continue to dive? If I were to punch you in the face, would you take a more relaxed approach just because you were punched by a dozen of other people prior? I don't think so.
Why? You have to acknowledge the fact that Gerrard has accused players, like Ronaldo, since they're presently ruining the game on more than one occasion in different interviews.
I'm not going to disagree with that, I just suppose I hate calling a club hero a hypocrite.
Taylor said:
I happen to think that's a stupid comparison, lol. Diving in football matches has become the "norm" and coaches have actually been encouraging it whereas punching someone in the face, assault, is a serious offence. The more people do it, in some cases, the less significant it becomes. In other cases it is the complete opposite. The Yellow Card for diving appears to not be used anymore, even for blatant dives that you see every Saturday on Match of the Day, and the more diving happens, the more the football world accepts it. The more the football world accepts it, the less significant one act of diving becomes. Of course Coaches/Officials won't admit that it's becoming accepted, but they're going to say that. The general public sees it every weekend on their TV screen.
Taylor said:
This is about one of three offences I can recall of Gerrard blatantly diving to help save a match. Your point comes to Havak's:
Havak said:
Havak's point is completely correct. I wasn't picking on Ronaldo, I was using him as an example. I don't like what Gerrard did but I'm not so naive to think that it's a rarity in football. (not saying that you are by the way) Many players do it more often that Steven Gerrard, but I won't use that as an excuse to defend an act that is completely ruins the "beautiful game". As much as I like Gerrard, I condemn the dive.
Arsenal vs Manchester United
vs
Barclays Premier League
Venue: Emirates Stadium (Capacity: 60,355)
Date: Saturday 8th November, 2008
Kick Off: 12:45pm GMT
Expected to be shown on
Recent Form
Arsenal - Current League position: 4th
Arsenal 0-0 Fenerbahce
Stoke 2-1 Arsenal
Arsenal 4-4 Tottenham
West Ham 0-2 Arsenal
Fenerbahce 2-5 Arsenal
Arsenal 3-1 Everton
Manchester Untied - Current League position: 3rd
Celtic 1-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 4-3 Hull
Man Utd 2-0 West Ham
Everton 1-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 3-0 Celtic
Man Utd 4-0 West Brom
Arsenal come into the game pretty much needing to win if they have any hopes of challenging the above sides (Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester United) for the Premier League Title. Only two sides have beaten Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium in the Premier League (West Ham United and Hull City), but Manchester United will fancy their chances this time, with a much depleted Arsenal squad. Manchester United are a point above Arsenal with a game in hand (against Fulham), so a victory here would likely see Manchester United reach a total advantage of 7 points of Arsenal in the coming weeks, while Arsenal could likely be 9 points behind Chelsea and Liverpool providing they don't slip up. Manchester United will take this extra incentive to be only 2 points behind Liverpool and Chelsea, who both have to come to Old Trafford yet (along with Arsenal as well).
Injury Worries / Missing Players
Arsenal
Van Persie is suspended after seeing red in Arsenal's 2-1 defeat to Stoke City. Adebayor and Walcott are injured and very unlikely to play. Silvestre has a suspected broken nose and is a major doubt, while other defenders Sagna and Gallas are slight doubts.
Manchester United
Paul Scholes is still out with a long-term injury, as is Owen Hargreaves. Fábio Da Silva is still out, but would be unlikely to have a chance of playing in such a big game with the majority of the squad fit. Other slight worries are Wes Brown and Gary Neville, who didn't travel to Scotland but are likely to be fit to play Arsenal. Van der Sar was rested for the trip to Scotland, so should play against Arsenal.
Line-Up Prediction
----------------- Van der Sar ---------------
Brown ----- Ferdinand ------ Vidic ----- Evra
--------- Carrick ----------- Anderson -------
Park Ji-Sung ------------------------- Ronaldo
-------------------------- Rooney -----------
----------------- Berbatov -------------------
Subs: Kuszczak, Neville/Rafael, O'Shea, Fletcher, Giggs, Nani & Tévez
Clichy is dangerous, so I'd go for the defensive assurance and pace of Brown and Park on the right at first. Neville doesn't have the pace to keep up with him and I feel is more likely to risk stupid tackles and get himself sent off. While Clichy is going to have the pace over Brown and Park, I think they'll be able to just about keep him in check.
Ronaldo should start on the left, as the right back position is one of Arsenal's weaker areas, so I can see him getting more joy down that side, especially with Evra also bombing forward. This could leave us open a bit, but I'd rather be more open on our left side of defence as their right side isn't as dangerous (if Walcott is unable to play). But if Wenger has learned anything, he'll know not to pit Walcott against Evra. Last time he did that (trying to win the game at 1-1) Walcott left space for Evra, who got forward to set up Cristiano Ronaldo and give us a 1-2 lead.
Carrick vs Fletcher is the toughest decision really, as Fletchers work rate is brilliant, and he's better at the defensive (and at the moment offensive) parts of the game. But Carrick with Anderson will pick out key passes much more often. I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie goes for three men in the middle though, Fletcher, Carrick, and Anderson to win that battle.
The rest of the team picks itself at the moment IMO.
If we're winning by two goals after an hour, I'd gladly strengthen things up, probably by taking off Rooney or Berbatov for Fletcher, Giggs, or O'Shea and make a three man midfield.
If we're not winning, or losing after roughly an hour, I'd probably take off Park for Nani. But leave any other hasty decisions such as throwing Tévez on to try and score until a bit later on.
I think United have a really good chance of winning this one.
Barclays Premier League
Venue: Emirates Stadium (Capacity: 60,355)
Date: Saturday 8th November, 2008
Kick Off: 12:45pm GMT
Expected to be shown on
Recent Form
Arsenal - Current League position: 4th
Arsenal 0-0 Fenerbahce
Stoke 2-1 Arsenal
Arsenal 4-4 Tottenham
West Ham 0-2 Arsenal
Fenerbahce 2-5 Arsenal
Arsenal 3-1 Everton
Manchester Untied - Current League position: 3rd
Celtic 1-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 4-3 Hull
Man Utd 2-0 West Ham
Everton 1-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 3-0 Celtic
Man Utd 4-0 West Brom
Arsenal come into the game pretty much needing to win if they have any hopes of challenging the above sides (Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester United) for the Premier League Title. Only two sides have beaten Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium in the Premier League (West Ham United and Hull City), but Manchester United will fancy their chances this time, with a much depleted Arsenal squad. Manchester United are a point above Arsenal with a game in hand (against Fulham), so a victory here would likely see Manchester United reach a total advantage of 7 points of Arsenal in the coming weeks, while Arsenal could likely be 9 points behind Chelsea and Liverpool providing they don't slip up. Manchester United will take this extra incentive to be only 2 points behind Liverpool and Chelsea, who both have to come to Old Trafford yet (along with Arsenal as well).
Injury Worries / Missing Players
Arsenal
Van Persie is suspended after seeing red in Arsenal's 2-1 defeat to Stoke City. Adebayor and Walcott are injured and very unlikely to play. Silvestre has a suspected broken nose and is a major doubt, while other defenders Sagna and Gallas are slight doubts.
Manchester United
Paul Scholes is still out with a long-term injury, as is Owen Hargreaves. Fábio Da Silva is still out, but would be unlikely to have a chance of playing in such a big game with the majority of the squad fit. Other slight worries are Wes Brown and Gary Neville, who didn't travel to Scotland but are likely to be fit to play Arsenal. Van der Sar was rested for the trip to Scotland, so should play against Arsenal.
Line-Up Prediction
----------------- Van der Sar ---------------
Brown ----- Ferdinand ------ Vidic ----- Evra
--------- Carrick ----------- Anderson -------
Park Ji-Sung ------------------------- Ronaldo
-------------------------- Rooney -----------
----------------- Berbatov -------------------
Subs: Kuszczak, Neville/Rafael, O'Shea, Fletcher, Giggs, Nani & Tévez
Clichy is dangerous, so I'd go for the defensive assurance and pace of Brown and Park on the right at first. Neville doesn't have the pace to keep up with him and I feel is more likely to risk stupid tackles and get himself sent off. While Clichy is going to have the pace over Brown and Park, I think they'll be able to just about keep him in check.
Ronaldo should start on the left, as the right back position is one of Arsenal's weaker areas, so I can see him getting more joy down that side, especially with Evra also bombing forward. This could leave us open a bit, but I'd rather be more open on our left side of defence as their right side isn't as dangerous (if Walcott is unable to play). But if Wenger has learned anything, he'll know not to pit Walcott against Evra. Last time he did that (trying to win the game at 1-1) Walcott left space for Evra, who got forward to set up Cristiano Ronaldo and give us a 1-2 lead.
Carrick vs Fletcher is the toughest decision really, as Fletchers work rate is brilliant, and he's better at the defensive (and at the moment offensive) parts of the game. But Carrick with Anderson will pick out key passes much more often. I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie goes for three men in the middle though, Fletcher, Carrick, and Anderson to win that battle.
The rest of the team picks itself at the moment IMO.
If we're winning by two goals after an hour, I'd gladly strengthen things up, probably by taking off Rooney or Berbatov for Fletcher, Giggs, or O'Shea and make a three man midfield.
If we're not winning, or losing after roughly an hour, I'd probably take off Park for Nani. But leave any other hasty decisions such as throwing Tévez on to try and score until a bit later on.
I think United have a really good chance of winning this one.
I never said you were "picking" on Ronaldo. I feel obligated to reiterate that United's own, Ronaldo, has taken a lot of criticism, on-and-off the pitch; the lack of respect and general dislike for the Player Of The Year is presented within the fans' reactions and the newspaper articles respectively.
Gerrard's commitment to Liverpool is widely appreciated, and his football abilities are ever-improving. You're right, he may not dive as often as Ronaldo or Drogba; however, he has criticized others, stressing the likes of Ronaldo's diving antics are detrimental to football, but then has the audacity to do it himself. That, right there, is what I have a incredible problem with; it has nothing to do with the ammount of dives.
It looks like walcott and sagna will be fit, which will significantly improve our prospects. Explecting the line up to be:
----------------Almunia
Sagna------Toure-----Djourou----Clichy
Walcott-----Cesc------Song------Nasri
-----------------Diaby----------------
---------------Bendtner---------------
Am slightly worried Denilson and Silvestre will play in place of Song and Djourou, which would imo be a huge mistake as I simply cannot see Denilson dealing with Anderson's Strength, and Silvestre still seems a bit rusty.
Think its going to be another close game, with Man Utd probably going for a 451 too, pushing Rooney onto the left wing. With Cesc not playing anywhere near the heights he reached last season, our main offensive threat will come from the wings - I wouldnt be surprised to see us playing a defensive game, hitting Man Utd on the counter.
If Rooney plays on the wing, hopefully the threat of Sagna and Walcott bombing down that flank will cause him to backtrack alot, and perhaps diminish his offensive threat (he seems to score for fun against us!). Hopefully Diaby can recreate his excellent form he showed vs Fener away, where he also played behind the striker. If Bendtner plays anything like he did in midweek, we're going to have a problem finishing, or even creating chances. Hopefully it'll be a good game with arsenal coming out on top, but I think it'll most likely be a 1-1, with Nasri and Rooney grabbing the goals.
Going to the game tomorrow, the boys better play up for me ;)
----------------Almunia
Sagna------Toure-----Djourou----Clichy
Walcott-----Cesc------Song------Nasri
-----------------Diaby----------------
---------------Bendtner---------------
Am slightly worried Denilson and Silvestre will play in place of Song and Djourou, which would imo be a huge mistake as I simply cannot see Denilson dealing with Anderson's Strength, and Silvestre still seems a bit rusty.
Think its going to be another close game, with Man Utd probably going for a 451 too, pushing Rooney onto the left wing. With Cesc not playing anywhere near the heights he reached last season, our main offensive threat will come from the wings - I wouldnt be surprised to see us playing a defensive game, hitting Man Utd on the counter.
If Rooney plays on the wing, hopefully the threat of Sagna and Walcott bombing down that flank will cause him to backtrack alot, and perhaps diminish his offensive threat (he seems to score for fun against us!). Hopefully Diaby can recreate his excellent form he showed vs Fener away, where he also played behind the striker. If Bendtner plays anything like he did in midweek, we're going to have a problem finishing, or even creating chances. Hopefully it'll be a good game with arsenal coming out on top, but I think it'll most likely be a 1-1, with Nasri and Rooney grabbing the goals.
Going to the game tomorrow, the boys better play up for me ;)
i believe that gerrard incident was definitely not a penalty but it wasnt a dive either. There was quite a bit of contact in mid-air and there was hardly any way Gerrard could stay on his feet :/. Gerrard also got to the ball before their defender did. But it does not erase the fact that Gerrard acted as if he was shot in the chest. if i am completely honest, i would rather have liverpool lose a game than be involved with such controversial decisions.
edit-
couldnt get a better pic of the incident but it shows some contact in mid-air. ehh, should never have been a penalty but as much as i hate to say it, we probably "deserved" a goal.
edit 2- fuck it doesnt show whether gerrard got to the ball first (which he did).
gerrard didnt dive but looked for a penalty, which is a pretty faggy thing to do anyway. And the referee giving us one made me speechless at that moment.
edit-
couldnt get a better pic of the incident but it shows some contact in mid-air. ehh, should never have been a penalty but as much as i hate to say it, we probably "deserved" a goal.
edit 2- fuck it doesnt show whether gerrard got to the ball first (which he did).
gerrard didnt dive but looked for a penalty, which is a pretty faggy thing to do anyway. And the referee giving us one made me speechless at that moment.
Yeah, I honestly think that was a big mistake from the defender to even make any sort of challenge at that point.
Gerrard was always heading the ball out for a goal kick if he got anywhere near it, so the defender should've simply stood his ground and not made a challenge IMO.
Poor decision from both the referee/linesman and the defender, but ah well.
Gerrard was always heading the ball out for a goal kick if he got anywhere near it, so the defender should've simply stood his ground and not made a challenge IMO.
Poor decision from both the referee/linesman and the defender, but ah well.
Havak, we did you a favour by drawing against Spurs. Please do the same for us by drawing/losing against Arsenal. :)
If Clichy comes past the halfway line, we would just leave Ronaldo up there and murder them on the break.
Arsenal will probably go 4-5-1 with Bendtner (lol) upfront with Nasri, Fabregas, Denilson, Diaby and Eboue? the midfield
Mr T, Toure, Sagna and Clichy at the back. basically Fabregas and the back 4 are the only players that are half decent.
Arsenal will probably go 4-5-1 with Bendtner (lol) upfront with Nasri, Fabregas, Denilson, Diaby and Eboue? the midfield
Mr T, Toure, Sagna and Clichy at the back. basically Fabregas and the back 4 are the only players that are half decent.
Regardless, we're in for a tough game tommorow. I'm looking forward to it.
Unfortunately I doubt I will be comfortable watching this game, given the likelyhood of a draw or loss. I know there are critics arrogantly predicting a breeze for United, and with the resources at Arsenal's disposal, who can blame them? But the up and coming challenge is Arsenal, at one of the most spectacular stadiums in England, with one of the best managers in the world, against a handful of quality players - when put into perspective, the breeze comment becomes obsolete.
Best of luck tommorow.
Unfortunately I doubt I will be comfortable watching this game, given the likelyhood of a draw or loss. I know there are critics arrogantly predicting a breeze for United, and with the resources at Arsenal's disposal, who can blame them? But the up and coming challenge is Arsenal, at one of the most spectacular stadiums in England, with one of the best managers in the world, against a handful of quality players - when put into perspective, the breeze comment becomes obsolete.
Best of luck tommorow.
Okay, additions to the injury list for United: Wes Brown, Darren Fletcher. That sucks, now we seem to be the team with more problems again, with Scholes and Hargreaves out. Neville isn't at full fitness, but he has to start over Rafael IMO.
GK: Edwin van der Sar #1
RB: Gary Neville #2 (c)
CB: Rio Ferdinand #6
CB: Nemanja Vidić #15
LB: Patrice Evra #3
RW: Park Ji-Sung #13
CM: Michael Carrick #16
CM: Anderson #8
LW: Cristiano Ronaldo #7
FW: Wayne Rooney #10
FW: Dimitar Berbatov #9
Subs: Tomasz Kuszczak #29, Rafael Da Silva #21, John O'Shea #22, Jonny Evans #23, Ryan Giggs #11, Nani #17 & Carlos Tévez #32.
I think that's the best we can go with now, though Rodrigo Possebon could be the surprise on the bench instead of Jonny Evans. Manucho on the bench would be intersting, but with Nani and Tévez there, it's unlikely.
Despite the Emirates being a rather narrow pitch in comparison with most, I'd really hate for Sir Alex to go 433 (or 451) against Arsenal. It didn't work against Liverpool, and though Arsenal are a different side, I don't think we should go with three central midfield players right away. Especially since it'd have to be Giggs playing the majority of the game in the middle.
GK: Edwin van der Sar #1
RB: Gary Neville #2 (c)
CB: Rio Ferdinand #6
CB: Nemanja Vidić #15
LB: Patrice Evra #3
RW: Park Ji-Sung #13
CM: Michael Carrick #16
CM: Anderson #8
LW: Cristiano Ronaldo #7
FW: Wayne Rooney #10
FW: Dimitar Berbatov #9
Subs: Tomasz Kuszczak #29, Rafael Da Silva #21, John O'Shea #22, Jonny Evans #23, Ryan Giggs #11, Nani #17 & Carlos Tévez #32.
I think that's the best we can go with now, though Rodrigo Possebon could be the surprise on the bench instead of Jonny Evans. Manucho on the bench would be intersting, but with Nani and Tévez there, it's unlikely.
Despite the Emirates being a rather narrow pitch in comparison with most, I'd really hate for Sir Alex to go 433 (or 451) against Arsenal. It didn't work against Liverpool, and though Arsenal are a different side, I don't think we should go with three central midfield players right away. Especially since it'd have to be Giggs playing the majority of the game in the middle.
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