Check out Blaziken's post, he was referring to another poster.
Great set, but I wonder if there isn't a way one could make this Garchomp defensively viable too, allowing it to take Ice Shard/Fang/Punch
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The Suicide Sweeper...
- Thread starter RaikouLover
- Start date
Check out Blaziken's post, he was referring to another poster.
Great set, but I wonder if there isn't a way one could make this Garchomp defensively viable too, allowing it to take Ice Shard/Fang/Punch
you guys do realize that if this set catches on, people are just going to up their Sp.Atk to 273 to still OHKO it. I'm not knocking the set at all, I think it's brilliant. I'm just saying that if that actually happens then we have a textbook case of over-centralization.
I'm pretty sure Blissey is way more over-centralizing than Garchomp (or any other pokemon for that matter).
I think the best way to handle a Garchomp like this would be with residual damage. No leftovers means that even SR damage is gonna stick everytime this guy switches in. The only probelm with residual damage is I often see Garchomp only used as a late game sweeper :/
Wrong.
273 attack vs 250 defense, 95 power(*4), 358 max HP: 84.36% - 99.44%
If you did go over 273, you wouldn't even guarantee anything, you'd have like a 6% chance of OHKOing if you used 274. You would need 301 special attack just to have a 50% to OHKO that Garchomp and as much as 326 to always OHKO it.
Even if they did raise their special attack, what is stopping the chomp user from upping their sp def?
The reason he wouldn't use Custap, among others, is that it's an illegal hold item (tell me how to get one ingame without hacking). It's also not programmed into Shoddy Battle.
K. I was going on what the OP said. I hadn't done any calcs myself so sorry for the misinformation. And 326 is freakin scary.
Yes, 326 is freakin' scary, which is why I reiterate: 108/95/85 defenses shouldn't be on a Pokemon with 102 Speed!
And the OP said that 250 SpD guarantees that Garchomp survives any 273 SpA, non-STAB Ice Beam. You'll need to exceed 273 to start thinking about OHKOing.
And the OP said that 250 SpD guarantees that Garchomp survives any 273 SpA, non-STAB Ice Beam. You'll need to exceed 273 to start thinking about OHKOing.
eh it looks good and pretty well thought out
I still hate chomp with all of my heart.
I still hate chomp with all of my heart.
That looks horrible to fight. Bulky waters everywhere hate you.
It was about time someone actually started using Garchomp's monstrous defenses properly. Why some people even bother attempting to downplay Garchomp's potency I will never know. Garchomp has always been broken beyond belief, uptil now people only started tapping into its potential. At the same time what were Gamefreak thinking when they gave this thing more HP than even the top tanks/walls in the game.
Blissey doesn't immediately threaten you with mass OHKO's and is mroe there to prevent that sort of scenario from the special side.
Add in the fact to have a 50% chance of OHKO on Garchomp 0/0 defenses with Ice Punch you'd also need 340 attack.
280 attack vs 250 defense, 95 power(*4), 357 max HP: 86.55% - 101.96% (12.5% OHKO, 46 more points required for OHKO)
Just wanted to point this out.
I tried Bulky Garchomp in the past, though not like this. The fact that you can easily get 2 Sword Dances and +1 speed so easily are insane. Props for this EV spread.
I've been testing this on Shoddy and it's working pretty nicely. For me Dragon Claw has been much better over Fire Fang. With Fire Fang you can't really sweep if you set-up early because of Outrage getting locked into a steel type.
I'm using it with Magnezone to trap the steels like Skarm, Zong, and Forry.
I also use a Skarm to Whirlwind my opponent's team to scout for anything that can stop the sweep.
I'm using it with Magnezone to trap the steels like Skarm, Zong, and Forry.
I also use a Skarm to Whirlwind my opponent's team to scout for anything that can stop the sweep.
Agreed. Compare Garchomp to Swampert (great tank). 108/95/85 is very arguably superior to 100/90/90, and then you factor in very comparable resistances, and Garchomp having far more speed/attack... you get the picture.
Nice set. Ice Shard seems to be the only real issue.
=)
=)
It's definitely better on the Physical side because 108/95 is definitely greater than 100/90. Basically, Garchomp says I am better at physical tanking than the number 12 most used Pokemon, but I am so much better at sweeping that I ignore this in favor of becoming the #1 sweeper in the game.
Garchomp Physical defense (HP * Def) = 80682
Swampert Physical defense (HP * Def) = 73656
Swampert Special defense (HP * SDef) = 73656
Garchomp Special defense (HP * SDef) = 73542
That's without EV's in any of the stats. Garchomp is clearly better at taking Physical attacks than Swampert while Swampert is marginally better at taking Special hits than Garchomp.
In other words, why did it take someone so long to come up with this?
I think most people have been awstruck by the 130 base attack, 102 base speed, and access to Swords Dance, Outrage, while getting STAB on Earthquake. When you have offensive stats like that, it's pretty easy to overlook great defenses.
Well, also, people don't use things for walls if they have a common 4x weakness. Swampert's, grass, is quite rare, so it still works better than Garchomp as a wall. Not to mention the fact that Garchomp is weak to other dragon attacks, which are one of the most important attacks to be able to defend against.
Not that this means Garchomp's defenses aren't ridiculous. They obviously are. But I think that is why people have not paid much attention to them. I mean even this set using his sp. def is created with the aim of successfully sweeping.
Not that this means Garchomp's defenses aren't ridiculous. They obviously are. But I think that is why people have not paid much attention to them. I mean even this set using his sp. def is created with the aim of successfully sweeping.
After trying this out for myself, I can say that it's deadly. The only things that can really stop this after it's set up are ice sharders, and very little else. It's almost guaranteed to get at least one KO, and usually gets more than that. It's almost as bad as the sub+bp+sd version.