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The Top 10 Titans of the 5th Gen OU Metagame [VOTING OVER]

Yeah, I'm not seeing Garchomp for #5. Honestly, it's good, but it was never overwhelming without Sand Veil, which was considered the problematic issue since we had people complaining about Sand Veil Gliscor. It was not a staple like Celebi and Latias, where damn near every competitive team was(and many still are) running one of them. I'd go so far as to say OU would have fallen apart without Celebi and Latias and I don't think either of them are #5.

I'm actually going to vote Scizor for the 5th spot. It's never been banned but it's always been consistently good. SD Scizor was a terror in BW, I can't recall it being below #5 in usage(someone correct me if I'm wrong), and while Genesect turned BW2 into "Genesect + 5 pokemon", when it left, Scizor has consistently stayed atop of #1 for months, and still going now.
 
I want to vote Terrakion this round.
Terrakion was a huge threat BW no doubt about that. With the introduction of many various threats in BW2, Terrakion's overall usage did see a steady decline. However this certainly does not make his position as #5 Titan any less viable. Because of Terrakion's existence, we were able to see the increased usage of Pokemon such as Gliscor and Landorus-Therian. We were also able to see things such as Bullet Punch Lucario for the sake of Terrakion. Latias also saw favoritism not only because she could tank weather teams but she was a solid answer for Terrakion.
 
Usually I'm early enough in these votes to have something to add the to discussion but so much has been written about Garchomp in this point in the discussion there isn't anything left to really say. He redefined suspect testing in a way with his crazy two-ladder test, and caused a whole mess with Sand Veil and Snow Cloak on his behalf alone. He's huge and has always made an impact before he was banned and after he was released. It's as simple as that.
 
I vote Excadrill for the reasons given previously, no need to recycle the same words.

On an unrelated note, how would you like me to make a banner for this? It would be similar to the one I made for the NU version, which can be seen here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-top-10-titans-of-the-5th-gen-nu-metagame.3487158/

If you don't want it, that's fine. Just an idea Gary2346

No thanks man haha it's a little too over the top for such a simple project. I like to keep it simple. Thanks for offering though!
 
Chou Toshio

Shouldn't we have banned the rest of the OU metagame when we banned chomp if it's a central cog that shapes our expectations?
I know it's a stupid question but I just don't really understand what you're getting at, I've never felt the need to compare any pokemon to Garchomp.

I never really considered any pokemon to be of such relevance..

Not necessarily. I mean, guess who DPP's central cog is/was? Salamence-- and it's banned.

But up until its ban at the VERY END of DPP's time as primary metagame, Salamence pretty much set the gold standard for power. Its Speed tier was the one to which all others compared themselves. Its bulk with intimidate and inability to be one shot by Bullet Punch was a shaping factor in the meta-- and of course, its POWER defined the standard of offensive strength in DPP.

And yet, if there had been viability rankings in DPP OU, Salamence never would have been S rank. It could easily be worn down by SR and LO. Its DD sets could be revenge killed with Scizor reliably. Its mixed sets set a standard for wallbreakers, but were incredibly prediction reliant. Still, Salamence was a consistent and powerful performing A+ offensive poke, and pushed the envelope on the standards for all other pokes. As long as Salamence was there, DPP's metagame would always be significantly more offensively, with a significantly higher standard of power.

Ultimately, DPP's competitive players decided that that higher standard was not what they wanted for the meta, and opted to ban Salamence even though no one thought it broken, unbeatable, or even the best Pokemon in the tier. Salamence simply shaped the tier in a way that people didn't like or want.

With Scizor or Gyarados as the meta's central cog, the metagame became a lot more tame.

However, I think even having been banned, Salamence's role as a central cog had a huge influence on the metagame throughout the course of DPP, and was a big part in shaping the meta just as how Garchomp has done in BW. I think you can even see the big gaps in generational strength just by comparing their central cogs-- Raikou in ADV --> Salamence in DPP --> Garchomp in BW.

tl;dr-- As a consistent performer that's considered not broken, the central cog has a big influential role on the standard of power in a meta. If you ban it, you significantly lower the overall standard of power. Sometimes though, that's something players want for the metagame. Even BW might receive less complaints if the metagame's power was reared into the point that Garchomp's level of power (without Sand Veil) was borderline considerable for a ban (the way Salamence's was at the end of DPP).
 
Been lurking but shouldn't the title of this thread be changed? When it says the TOP TEN TITANS, the first thing that comes to my mind is Genesect,Exadrill, Tornadus-t etc... , just my thoughts
 
Even though i already voted i'd like to take a moment to talk about something that has been bothering me for awhile. When we talk about the most influential pokemon in BW OU, we need to consider some extremely important factors that is, how much and for how long these pokemons have been shaping the metagame. This bring me to the reason why i have been voting for dragonite and jirachi since top 2 voting started. When you look at the likes of excadrill and genesect you see how much they impacted the metagame and overcentralized it when they were around. However this doesnt change the fact that they got banned either too soon or too fast. Its not like landorus, who lasted through this entire metagame, only being banned quite recently. Excadrill and genesect were literally only around for about half of this generation. As much as they were influentinal when they were around, theyre now gone, and both missed half of this entire metagame story. When you compare with stuff like dragonite or jirachi that have been around through this entire metagame, and have been hugely influentinal through ALL of it you cant deny that these mons are much more deserving of a rank here. I am not saying that pokemons that were banned too soon/fast should not be ranked. What i am saying is, they should not be over pokemons that have been a huge defining part of this entire metagame. This thread is not to rank pokemons based on viability. If that was the case, politoed wouldnt be nominated at all.
 
^Correct analysis except that's why Latios deserves to be much here (and in fact higher). Dragonite has many unique things that make him awesome but ultimately fits the general category of "physical Dragon-type" and is checked/countered in many of the same ways that other physical Dragon-type boosters/wallbreakers (like Garchomp and Salamence) are. Latios is the ONLY primarily special Dragon-type, the ONLY pokemon with a Draco Meteor that made it so that you needed a mixed or specially defensive steel type, the threat that makes 110 speed a huge benchmark to hit, and the biggest reason (alongside Keldeo) that one-dimensional special walls like Blissey are less relevant (with STAB Psyshock). Nominees like Terrakion and Garchomp are not NEARLY as influential. Garchomp is another Dragon that runs Swords Dance or a Choice Scarf, the only really unique things it has are STAB EQ and Stealth Rock. Terrakion is another powerful CC to worry about. Yes, these are threats with unique qualities that make them stand out, but they don't break out of a pre-established role shared with other pokemon, only Latios does that.
 
^Correct analysis except that's why Latios deserves to be much here (and in fact higher). Dragonite has many unique things that make him awesome but ultimately fits the general category of "physical Dragon-type" and is checked/countered in many of the same ways that other physical Dragon-type boosters/wallbreakers (like Garchomp and Salamence) are. Latios is the ONLY primarily special Dragon-type, the ONLY pokemon with a Draco Meteor that made it so that you needed a mixed or specially defensive steel type, the threat that makes 110 speed a huge benchmark to hit, and the biggest reason (alongside Keldeo) that one-dimensional special walls like Blissey are less relevant (with STAB Psyshock). Nominees like Terrakion and Garchomp are not NEARLY as influential. Garchomp is another Dragon that runs Swords Dance or a Choice Scarf, the only really unique things it has are STAB EQ and Stealth Rock. Terrakion is another powerful CC to worry about. Yes, these are threats with unique qualities that make them stand out, but they don't break out of a pre-established role shared with other pokemon, only Latios does that.
Well, Modest Hydreigon has a stronger Draco Meteor and is uncounterable.. So I'd be careful about dishing out those ONLYs.
Kyurem and Latias are also exclusively special based and the Hurricane users(Torn-T) arguably necessitated a sDef Jirachi more than Latios.
 
I vote Excadrill, though it doesn't really matter at this point.

The voting for the #5 spot ends here! Here are the results:

Garchomp: 8
Dragonite: 1
Landorus-I: 2
Excadrill: 7
Latios: 1
Terrakion: 2
Scizor: 1
Deoxys-S: 1
Genesect: 3


Garchomp is the Winner!

5.
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Garchomp came out with a bang this voting round and has unexpectedly beaten Excadrill! It's not really hard to see why though, because even before Garchomp was unbanned from the Ubers tier, it was fucking up BW1 with its Sub SD Sand Veil shenanigans that made it nearly unbeatable, to a point where it was too much for the tier and it was banned. Now, even with it being unbanned, Garchomp is easily one of the greatest Pokemon in the OU tier, as it is able to run a myriad of sets because of its outstanding stats, and versatility. It's versatile, powerful, bulky, and easily a metagame defining Pokemon, because it's one of the most prominent Dragon-types in the OU metagame.

Check out Chou Toshio's nomination post for a better explanation.


Voting for #6 spot

Alright the voting has begun! We are going to be voting for the #5 spot. You're not required to write any sort of description about your vote, but if you want to then you're more then welcome to. From now on, I would highly advise you to write a few sentences explaining your vote, or else your vote may be more open to disagreement. The voting will always last for two days, as I feel that is more than enough time to cast your votes. Happy voting!
 
Dragonite.
Once again Dragonite. You arent going anywhere without a solid plan for this thing. It defines the necessity of keeping sr on the opponent field. Scarf terrakion, scarf keldeo and scarf latios are often used because they revenge kill adamant dnite after two boosts. Many things run ice moves just to prevent it from setup. Its the only pokemon that can claim to get a free boost and will often get a second one. Dragonite defines this offensive metagame with its power.
 
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