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The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"

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Something just occured to me, some of these sets require specific EVs, but aren't enough to allow a space in each Analysis. So should we also start collecting all the sets? I would like to know the Kabutops set, Shiftry and if you use Adamant or Jolly on Lucario
I do have an idea on some of the EVs that are suitable for the Kabutop set, but I need some time to figure out if the set works or not. (I will also work one for Shiftry if I need to)

Also I'm going to suggest testing out Heracross for the uber metagame, since he is able to deal a lot of damage to most things in the uber metagame.
 
Something just occured to me, some of these sets require specific EVs, but aren't enough to allow a space in each Analysis. So should we also start collecting all the sets? I would like to know the Kabutops set, Shiftry and if you use Adamant or Jolly on Lucario

In the Smogon Analysis, OU and BL Pokemon (before the nUU test) have their sets specifically set for the OU tier. UU pokemon (before the nUU test) have their sets for the UU and OU metagame. There are very few sets dedicated to Ubers. Some are Ubers Jumpluff and Uber Trapper Scizor. It's worth noting that the most common Uber Scizor set is currently a specially bulky CB Scizor. Such a set, despite its high usage, surprising that of many Ubers like Lati@s, is absent from the analysis.

What I think Smogon should do is have three separate groups of analysis sets. One for UU (excluded to UU pokemon), OU (for OU pokemon and UU pokemon that have sets that are viable in OU) and Uber (for Uber pokemon and for OU/UU pokemon that have sets that are viable in UBer). Currently, Project Uber is testing which OU/UU pokemon have viable sets in Uber.

The main advantages of this:
  • It is easier for a person to find an Uber set for an OU/UU pokemon, and to find an OU or UU set for an UU pokemon.
  • People will be encouraged to prepare sets for OU and UU pokemon that are specifically meant for Uber play.
  • There is the problem of not having enough room on Pokemon's analysis for sets solely dedicated to the Uber metagame. With three sets of analysis, there will be plenty of space for Uber sets in the Uber analysis. Also, there will be more space for UU and OU sets for UU pokemon.
  • Overall, with three different analysises for three different tiers, competitive battlers will be encouraged to participate in the Uber and UU tiers as well as the OU tier.
The only downside to such a task is that it requires time to set up. But Smogon appreciates users who devote as much time as possible to benefitting the Smogon community and competitive battling.

Should we end up preparing three different groups of analysis sets, I would be glad to help out. I'll also like to help out in Project Uber.



By the way, isn't there an already a set for Kingdra that is proven to be viable in Ubers, and can be classified as "Works?" I'm referring to the Dragon Dance (Ubers) set listed on Kingdra's analysis.
 
Also I'm going to suggest testing out Heracross for the uber metagame, since he is able to deal a lot of damage to most things in the uber metagame.

Scarf Cross should go under "Works", Scarf Cross has been very succsessful fo r many people. Also, I like your idea Darknessmalice, it could get more people to play Ubers if the sections show that many pokemon are viable in Ubers.
 
One more thing I would like to mention, if you are going to take part in this project tell us what pokemon you are going to make Uber Strong, it's good to know so if there is no over lap.

I think its imperative that more than one person tests each pokemon. That way people will try out more sets play against more teams and build more teams in hope of finding the perfect role of that pokemon in ubers.

At this exciting turning point in the lifespan of the Uber metagame i would really like to get involved so if i can help out with anything let me know. Just to let you know i am aware of typical movesets but i do not play it on Shoddy that much. I play lots of OU and am a naturally a good battler sorry if that sounds arrogant i just want you to have ann idea.
 
For Project Uber, I would like to test Skarmory. I have been using it to success in my latest Uber team. He makes a great physical wall. Most Groudon forgo Fire Punch, and they are set-up bait. Supporting Groudon has no hope of breaking Skarmory, and even Rock Polish variants fail miserably. Swords Dance variants just get pHazed away when they have too many boosts. Skarmory makes a great switch-in to Rayquaza's Outrage, and any DD or SD Rayquaza that doesn't have Overheat (the February statistics state only 13.9% of Rayquaza used Overheat, whilst 63.2% used Earthquake). Garchomp is even easier to deal with. And Scizor can't hope to take down Skarmory.

Here's the set I use:
Skarmory
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roost
EVs - 252 HP, 216 Def, 40 SDef

All those moves are self-explanatory. Spikes is a must, and cripples the many grounded Ubers. It's great for weakening Kyogre's Water Spout. Stealth Rock is another must. I could have it on many other pokemon, but this saves me from having another support pokemon, and Skarmory doesn't have much use for Brave Bird. 90 base attack doesn't cut it for Ubers, and it hits no one super-effective, not to forget that Skarmory takes lots of recoil against all the base 100 HP ubers. I rather just set up entry hazards, and use Whirlwind to go on the offense. Few Ubers use Taunt, and I don't see many Taunt Mewtwo these days.

I don't see the point in giving Skarmory Speed EVs; his main use is to wall the most common physical Uber threas - Groudon, Rayquaza, Scizor and Garchomp. He already outruns Scizor, who normally forgoes any speed EVs, and it would be foolish to attempt to outrun the base 90 speed Ubers. I'm not sure what EVs Tyranitar normally runs, but I think most Tyranitar split their EVs between Atk, HP and SDef, with none left for Speed. Should a Tyranitar be running speed, it would probably be a DD variant. Skarmory could have enough speed to outrun 252 Speed Adamant Tyranitar, but I don't consider it worth all those Def EVs to outrun an uncommon pokemon that will always be faster after 1 DD. 216 Def EVs give a bonus point. Rest goes into SDef should I decide to set up against Blissey.

Another major reason to use Skarmory is Tickle Wobbuffet isn't a good idea against Skarmory. Thanks to his Steel typing, and naturally high Defence, Skarmory doesn't fear Pursuit. Attempting Tickle will ensure that I get 3 layers of Spikes down, and considering how few Uber teams actually have a Spinner, even without a Ghost pokemon, I'll be happy to sacrifice Skarmory for 3 layers of Spikes. And not to forget that Magnezone is rarely around to ruin Skarmory's fun.



Also, if I get some Uber sets, I can PM a mod to suggest the idea of setting up Uber analysis for OU/UU pokemon that are separate from their main analysises. Or at least, I could post them in Project Uber when that is set up.



[[EDIT]] For Project Uber, if we are going to create as many "Works" sets as possibly, shouldn't we start by listing sets that we already know works. I'm not referring to those of Uber pokemon, as they can be listed in their analysis. I'm referring to pokemon like Scizor and Blissey. Here's some

Scizor - Works - Specially Bulky CB, Uber Trapper*
Blissey - Works - Special Wall, and probably also either Wish or Cleric support
Tyranitar - Works - CB, maybe Dragon Dance
Forretress - Works - Specially Bulky Spinner and Entry Hazard Layer
Jirachi - Works - Uberachi*
Metagross - Works - CB with some Special BulkyCelebi - Works - Uber Lead*
Bronzong - Works - Dual Screen, Physical Wall
Heracross - Works - Choice Scarf

* = Set is listed on the Smogon analysis.


When listing which pokemon work, we should also list the full details of the set that works.

Here's are the details for some of the ones I listed. I'll like help with the ones I have not mentioned, for I haven't used them, and I don't know what their sets are. I just know they are viable for use. Note: I've left out the sets that are listed on the Smogon analysis on purpose.

Scizor
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
Item: Choice Band
Bullet Punch
U-turn
Pursuit
Superpower
EVs - 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SDef

Blissey
Anything with 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef; there's too many sets to list

Forretress
Nature: Careful
Item: Leftovers
Spikes / Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Light Screen / Payback
Explosion
EVs - 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef

Metagross
Nature: Adamant
Item: Choice Band
Meteor Mash
Pursuit
Ice Punch / Earthquake
Explosion
EVs - 210 HP / 140 Atk / 160 SpD - These EVs enable Metagross to survive a CM boosted Modest Latios Thunder, and OHKO back with Meteor Mash

Bronzong
Nature: Bold
Ability: Leviate
Item: Ligh Clay
Reflect
Light Screen
Stealth Rock
Explosion
252 HP / (I'm not sure for the rest of the EVs)

Nature: Bold
Ability: Leviate
Item: Leftovers
Stealth Rock
Hypnosis
Grass Knot (Groudon)
HP Ice (Rayquaza and Garchomp)
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

Heracross:
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Guts
Item: Choice Scarf
Close Combat
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Sleep Talk
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Speed (enough Speed to outrun Mewtwo)



Project Ubers should also be combined with this link: http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/uber_battling. Jibaku can help us out here.
 
Alright thank you Darkness. Also referring to the Kingdra set;I have played and used Kingdra before, I was easily underwhelmed. Though if more think I am wrong I'll change it, I'll add in Scarf Heracross and the list of pokemon we see every day (Blissey and the such)

Here is the information I have so far

Parasect @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
248 HP / 8 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD
Ability: Dry Skin
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- X-Scissor / Seed Bomb
- Aromatherapy / Light Screen / X-Scissor

Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant / Jolly Nature
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extreme Speed

Shiftry @
Nature
/ / /
-
-
-
-

Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Rain Dish
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam / Toxic

Jumpluff @ Leftovers
Timid Nature
188 Def/252 Spd/70 SDef
Chlorophyll
- Encore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder

Heatran @ Leftovers
Sassy Nature
252 HP / 176 SpDef / 80 SpAtk
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Explosion / Hidden Power [GRASS]


Heatran @ Choice Specs
Sassy Nature
252 HP / 6 SpDef / 252 SpAtk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [GRASS] / Dragon Pulse
- Explosion

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
/ / /
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
-
-

Primeape @ Choice Scarf
Adamant Nature
252 Atk / 188 Spe / 70 HP
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge
- Punishment / Ice Punch

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 HP/ 50 Atk /206 SpD
Ability: Water Absorb
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect
- Waterfall / Earthquake / Encore

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Adamant Nature
24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Speed
Guts
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Sleep Talk

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
200 HP / 212 SpDef / 98
Natural Cure
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Flamethrower

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Careful/Adamant Nature
252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpDef
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Scizor @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpDef
Technician
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
 
In response to Gen's Skarmory post i think it would be wise to have protect on skarmory over SR (which can easily be filled by something else many choiced (special or physical) users will come in on skarm with the idea of forcing him to switch out with protect skarm turns the tables If they overpredict skarm stays in putting another layer down or whirlwinding as they switch = spike rape and if they pver predict you can switch to an appropriate counter on your own team forcing them to switch out; either way you win. I would urge you to test this as i think it would work really well due to all the choice users in uber.

I would also like to add that mien has been using an uber stall team with abomasnow who can counter specs ogre with auto hail, a skarmory and also perhaps most interestingly a Cloyster lead who can rapid spin ,spike and toxic spike he can also ice beam and can counter dd rayquaza well ice beam and 180 def. Cloyster clearly has excellent potential for Ubers.
Sorry mien for revealing your team i need my revenge for you 6-0ing me :P.
 
I can confidently say Skarmory works, though I use a completely different set. I used a more Special Defensive variant, allowing Skarmory to absorb blows from Specs Dialga's Dragon Pulses, Scarftwo/rai's Focus Blasts, and survive a LO Flamethrower from SDRay should it have one. You can technically stall Life Orb 4 attack Mewtwos that use Flamethrower instad of Fire Blast in the rain, and if you're lucky, you can survive a Thunder from Latias (I've seriously done this before). The defense drop isn't so much when it still walls Groudon, though Rayquaza can be a problem when LO DD Outrage can cut over 50%...

I used Toxic/Spikes/Roost/Whirlwind. As I already have a SRer, Toxic harasses Kyogre switch ins badly. Or you can use Protect for scouting, but watch for double switches

Payback is really good on Forry as it does a good amount of damage to Mewtwo, Lati@s, and especially Giratina-O. Slash it in IMO.

EVs - 210 HP / 140 Atk / 160 SpD - These EVs enable Metagross to survive a CM boosted Modest Latias Thunder, and OHKO back with Meteor Mash
Latios, not Latias. However, since every Latios runs Timid you can drop some SDef and put it in Attack because Latias can actually survive CB MM from 375 Attack.

Where's Quagsire on the list? and possibly Dugtrio (according to Obi)? and Gengar (HP Ice, Rayquaza revenger, etc. Train Man has used Gengar successfully)

As for Kingdra, Maniac has tested it and says that it works, but retesting doesn't hurt. Honchkrow is possibly worth testing too, with Insomnia + Superpower for Darkrai and Heat Wave for Groudon. Maniac once recommended me SD/Superpower/Sucker Punch/Taunt Absol or something like that. Never tried it, though.

Didn't mien use Skarm/Abomasnow/Light Screen Mew/Starmie or something? I swear I've fought that team before in my alt.
 
Kingdra testing

If anybody else is interested in testing Kingdra, these are the sets I'll be testing:

---
Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 132 Atk/192 Spd/184 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Waterfall
- Outrage

This set is taken from RL's House of Gimmicks. He has comments there, though some of them are sketchy. I'm still going to give it a try.

---
Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 200 Atk/56 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor

This is a set I made and it looks very promising. The speed EVs allow you to beat 12 speed Groudon before any boost, while Draco Meteor is a 2HKO on Support Groudon. After speed I maxed Special Attack (since Dragon Dance raises Attack) and threw the rest into Attack. Turns out that it is very similar to the analysis set, though I don't understand why the analysis set is so speed heavy (rain + DD > all). My set also leans towards Special Attack because DD should make up for it, though I may change it and follow the analysis and swap nature (transferring a few EVs to Attack too).
---

Jibaku said:
Maniac once recommended me SD/Superpower/Sucker Punch/Taunt Absol or something like that. Never tried it, though.

I wouldn't know about SD, but I have used Absol as a lead. Magic Coat/Night Slash/Superpower/Taunt, though Sucker Punch could go in (loses to ExtremeSpeed). I think there was another move I was debating putting there, but I can't remember it off the top of my head.

EDIT: Actually, X-Scissor hits bot Darkrai and Deoxys, so that's two slots in one. Magic Coat/X-Scissor/Taunt. I'm unsure about that last slot. Will-O-Wisp can cripple Groudon leads, while Sucker Punch can still catch weakened pokemon (other sash leads).

EDIT2: Oh yes, that 6th move was Counter (again, Groudon leads).
 
Gentlemen, I would like to try out Yanmega in Ubers. Stealth Rock is less common from what I've seen, and with Bug STAB I think it can do well.

My proposed set is this:

Yanmega@Expert Belt/Leftovers
Modest nature/Speed Boost
252 SpAtk/104 Def/152 Speed
-Bug Buzz
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Ice
-Protect/Hypnosis

Bug Buzz hits many ubers like Mewtwo, Darkrai, and Lati@s supereffectively. Shadow Ball is for Giratina. Hidden Power Ice hits Rayqyaza, and hits Groudon slightly harder, it's also your best bet against Skarmory.
The last slot depends, Protect seems the best for gaining Speed Boosts, while Hypnosis can cripple. However, if you want sleep, then Darkrai is probably a better choice for that job.

Thoughts/suggestions? Can Tinted Lens work?
 
Can someone make this into a new thread with a new topic ie. Ubers charting the changes in the metagame + new ideas

I think this would provide more focused ides. What are you guys thoughts on this?
 
Tyranitar (M) @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Only stopped by incoming Groudon, Scizor and Forretress (the latter two, can be trapped and defeated by Magnezone). Can set up a DD against the likes of Blissey, then when your opponent switches to something like Giratina, absorb the WoW with Lum and DD again. As it tries out it one more time, simply Taunt, netting you your third DD. Even after 2 DD's its pretty unstoppable.

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- HP Fire / Ice
- Explosion

Play off its amazing resists to switch in on fighting/ground/normal attacks. Solid counter to SD Ray (with HP Ice). HP Fire obliterates Scizor in neutral or sunny conditions. Can survive a Bullet Punch if Scizor sacrifices Atk for SpD. Blocks spin and threatens with HP Fire against Forry. As most Blisseys run Wish/Protect/Stoss/Toxic, Gengar can actually stall out Blissey or just explode a turn after Protect.


More to come.
 
Can someone make this into a new thread with a new topic ie. Ubers charting the changes in the metagame + new ideas

I think this would provide more focused ides. What are you guys thoughts on this?

That sounds like a good idea; though, I don't have the time to post that topic. Also, Tyranitar can also be an effective lead for stall teams since he can set-up SR and SS, Protect to scout out moves and add in additional residual damage, and can be used to take on some unboosted special attacks not named Focus Blast or Aura Sphere with Wish support.
 
Shouldn't Shedinja be in the "works" section, since he's pretty much only used there, even though he's a UU pokemon? (Plus he's in the top 30)

Dugtrio does in fact work very well in ubers, particularly when paired with Wobbuffet. There's a lot of Thunder thrown around in ubers, and if Wobb can Encore it, it can safely switch to Dugtrio, and you basically have a guaranteed kill.

Also, I've been trying Absol as well. He's ok, but my team isn't very good since I'm very weak in ubers, so I might not be using him to his fullest potential.

I'm currently trying:

Absol @Focus Sash
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SDef
Super Luck
Adamant Nature

- Night Slash
- Sucker Punch
- Snatch
- Magic Coat

Night Slash and Sucker Punch are pretty self-explanatory, it doesn't seem as though Absol really needs Superpower here, unless he's taking on Dialga (Blissey is screwed against Absol, since Absol stuffs both Calm Mind and statuses with this set).

I use this as a lead, mainly to stop Dual Screen DX-S, and Dark Voiding Darkrai leads. It seems to work ok, and if it's successful, it can come in later and revenge-kill stuff with Sucker Punch.

Like I said, I'm not very good at ubers, so this set might not be that good for better uber players, so I wonder if this one has potential.
 
With SD Kabutops, I feel Stone Edge / Waterfall / Brick Break as the 3 attacks work absolutely best. Brick Break takes down screens and more importantly Dialga after the SD. Stone Edge is great for all that stupid stuff like Latias, Kyogre, Palkia, ect.
 
Alright, we've got a go ahead from Caelum to create an new thread made just for this project.

If you want to make a sep. thread for your project uber I'm fine with that. Just do it either in Stark or C&C depending on whether or not you intend to turn any unique sets into peer edits (C&C) or just want it as a reference for the public (Stark). Just mentioned I OKed it if you decide to go that route.

I will make the thread now, sorry for this, but the list and everything will be updated there. ^_^ Happy pokemon
 
So is this thread like, dead now? Is the Project Uber thread for discussion too? Or just for testing out Pokemon and posting the results and all.
 
Yes! Back in the top ten after rounds of haxing

This thread shouldn't die. Project Uber appears to be exclusively for nonubers in Ubers. This thread can still be useful for other things, such as new strategies you've found (new sets, spreads, etc), new insight into things, and other stuff that Project Uber can't hold.

Anyways, Giratina-O is surprisingly useful in this metagame, moreso than it has ever been. With all the Scarfrai leads going around, you can predict a Trick and bring this thing is. Gira-O is currently the most expendable member in my team atm (unless against stall, but what stall team leads with Scarfrai?), and I usually don't mind it eating a Dark Void. If Darkrai uses Trick well now someone's going to be badly injured, and more often than not their best hope is Dialga or Kyogre. And of course since things are going more stallish nowadays it only helps it.

Three most common leads I see nowadays are Deoxys-S, Darkrai, and Dialga. Seen quite a bit of Groudon leads but I'm not sure why Dialga's up there again...

Wobb is almost everywhere and is ticking me off. Though it's usually not going to get past one kill, and I usually get free Spikes up on Wobb.
 
I agree with Jibbles, this thread and Project Uber are completely different. This is for general metagame discussion (which I guess somewhat includes Project Uber) but also for noticing the shifts, and staying on top of the game.

CM Rest Talk Kyogre can start to tear this metagame up, there isn't much that can survive a +2 Surf under the rain. Origin has taken a spot in my heart, especially the mix attacker set, completely unexpected and catches almost all Wobbuffet off guard.
 
I've been currently using a Life Orbed, Calm Mind Kyogre instead of the usual Specs Kyogre, after noticing how easily it can decimate most of the things that switch into Kyogre's Water Spout, such as Parasect, Quagsire, and Vaporeon. It usually takes out 2-3 pokemon after it gets a Calm Mind in.

Also noting that this set allows Kyogre to 2HKO Blissey with Surf after a Calm Mind.
 
How good is a Deoxy-S Spiker in the Uber Metagame?
I SR a beast of a Deoxys-S at the gamestop thing and I think after leaving OU he can have some use. lol
 
How good is a Deoxy-S Spiker in the Uber Metagame?
I SR a beast of a Deoxys-S at the gamestop thing and I think after leaving OU he can have some use. lol
Deoxys-S is probably the #1 lead and Spiker in the uber metagame right now, especially since after it left the standard metagame.

From all I've seen, all Deoxys-S that are being used are spikers and none of them are sweeper variants.
 
i am mind and have the best lead in ubers ever


Mamoswine (M) @ lum berry/focus sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

I will explain it a bit.
Hey there comes a Darkrai, he will probably use dark void, so you eq, and then ice shard and cya!
same for deoxys-e
if you use focus sash you can always set up sr, and with good prediction you can endeavor, it is really good!
 
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