The main problem I see with adding + - ranks is that this thread would make me (and probably a few other people) even angrier than it does now. I don't think anyone can truly accurately determine where a poke falls in 12 different viability categories and I disagree with how other tiers organize this. It would be nice to clear up some clutter tho.
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The UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter PK Gaming
- Start date
Why was Duscolps demoted to LonelyNess rank? From my experience it actually has been a legitimate threat. If anything should go down to Lonelyness rank, its Claydol.
I'll edit this post with more useful content later.
In other tiers, you'll actively see the prominent members either support, reject, or tweak the nominations made by the more inexperienced members. In the arguments presented by both sides, there's usually sound evidence to justify the decision to drop or raise a Pokemon's rank. Here, unfortunately, the evidence isn't always as sound, and the two sides either never reach an agreement over its ranking, or they just drop the argument altogether. The other ranking threads are more structured, the best and better players come to a consensus, allowing a decision regarding the movement of a Pokemon. We don't have that. Yes, we do see the prominent and important people to the tier contributing, but it's never unifying, as player opinions typically get in the way of the facts, or again, certain arguments are just overlooked and or dropped. Even I'm guilty of this in regards to when I nominated Electivire, as I was simply impressed by what it did for my team at the time. Now having taken an outside look at how it works in this metagame, it should be in the kokoloko rank, and I now understand the decisions behind putting it there.
If the +/- tiering is implemented,
Again, to advocate for the +/- ranking, it really helps us identify how good certain Pokemon are. Ferroseed, for example, is a decent Spiker and nowhere near D-Rank material thanks to its ability to completely shit on Kingdra, but can be easily turned into setup bait and has huge weaknesses to Fighting- and Fire-types. Something like Ferroseed shouldn't be classified as an "equal" per se, to something like Bisharp or Omastar, who are somewhat legitimate threats in the UU metagame. The same applies to things like Galvantula and Smeargle in regards to say Nidoqueen and Xatu. There's obvious polarity within the ranks themselves, and implementing the +/- duality to each rank will only clarify the OP for new players to see how the Pokemon within each rank compare with one and other, and how good a Pokemon truly is.
I figured I might as well address this since it's probably the biggest issue facing this change. Subjective, yeah I guess it would become more subjective, but again, the dynamic or static council somewhat mitigates that, as while it will (hopefully) base their decisions off of the facts, it would also be able to take a second look at the opinions of those arguing the points, somewhat creating a non-biased take on the issue Pokemon. However, more cluttered is the opposite of what this would accomplish. This plays off the point I made using Ferroseed as an example. If led to said 3-member council, the ranks themselves become more structured, organized, and again, reduce the blatant polarity seen in the ranks, creating more orderly ranks. Obviously, the initial +/- ranks would have to be determined by that council, preventing a community-based uproar birthed from varying opinions. At that point, it would be safe to let the members begin their debates over specific Pokemon.
Like, I see the arguments against the +/- ranking, albeit there's been two proposed, compared to the small handful of those that have stated that they're in favour of implementing the +/- ranking. Hence why I've suggested the three-member council, as it does alleviate most of the issues with the system. Yes, there will be work needing done, and it's not like myself or any member in favour of the new system are expecting a functional set of +/- tiers overnight, but it shouldn't hold back the concept. Not to be a bandwagoner, but we are the only tier without this system or something like it, and at the same time, we have one of the more confusing Viability Ranking lists. There's no specificity to how good something is, just a general "_-Rank", unlike every other thread. Our current system isn't clear, rather clear enough, to new or current members looking to get into UU.
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
I've been saying Ambipom can be good for nearly a year and nothing. RT says it once and it gets moved. You guys make me feel even more unloved, just kidding but seriously. Is this UU list going to be updated much more because why bother with gen6 coming so soon; will there be a gen6 version of this when it is released or will it take a while?
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Psychotic
Banned deucer.
I discussed with a lot of good players (and Kokoloko) on IRC and these are the changes we came up with.
Swampert back from B ==> A
Victini down from S ==> A, why the hell are we suspecting it.
Shaymin from A ==> S
The other two potential changes we discussed were moving Chandelure back to S rank and Slowking down to B rank, but as of right now those aren't going to happen. I will discuss with people about these some more.
Swampert back from B ==> A
Victini down from S ==> A, why the hell are we suspecting it.
Shaymin from A ==> S
The other two potential changes we discussed were moving Chandelure back to S rank and Slowking down to B rank, but as of right now those aren't going to happen. I will discuss with people about these some more.
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Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
I'll show up in IRC sometime, but can I get a summary on why chandelure is being considered for being moved up? It gets pursuit trapped by snorlax pretty badly, many sucker punchers are quite common in including honchkrow, and bisharp. A myriad of high usage water pokemon prevent fire blast/overheat spamming, houndoom has no issue aganst the standard trick/fire blast/shadow ball/energy ball set. Umbreon's bulk, and payback/foul play are not kind to chandelure. WIthout a scarf it's very slow, but even with a scarf opposing scarf mienshao and heracross are lurking in every shadow forcing you out.
I mean, it's certainly very strong, with specs its damage is great, hp fighting can be run to hit snorlax and houndoom. Flash fire can make it even stronger. But I've never really had trouble fighting it, and when using it I dont see an S-tier threat. It's biggest debilitations is lack of speed, and common weaknesses prevent boosting sets, but at the same time, a stealth rock weakness and pursuit weakness paired with a choice user.
Specs is probably the best set, but has anyone had good success unchoiced? It seems like very single one I face is choiced. The analysis speaks of sub sets, but personally I run whirlwind, and roar on snorlax or my bulky waters..
I mean, it's certainly very strong, with specs its damage is great, hp fighting can be run to hit snorlax and houndoom. Flash fire can make it even stronger. But I've never really had trouble fighting it, and when using it I dont see an S-tier threat. It's biggest debilitations is lack of speed, and common weaknesses prevent boosting sets, but at the same time, a stealth rock weakness and pursuit weakness paired with a choice user.
Specs is probably the best set, but has anyone had good success unchoiced? It seems like very single one I face is choiced. The analysis speaks of sub sets, but personally I run whirlwind, and roar on snorlax or my bulky waters..
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Pursuit can be negated by Sub sets, Sub W-o-W really screws lax over, as well as Trick. Honchkrow is the only common Sucker Punch (Bisharp sees minimal usage) but again, that's negated by Sub sets. Most Water-types are 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball, nearly all are 2HKO'd by Energy Ball (except for Milotic but that kind of sucks). Houndoom is basically RU level usage, and is actually 2HKO by Shadow Ball after LO recoil. And scarf Fighter's should never lock themselves into the obvious nonSTAB Stone Edge, its meant to be used on the switch, not to force stuff out. If you haven't been having trouble with Chandy, you've been playing offense, using Snorlax, or facing only bad players.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
ive been doing all three mate, that might explain it
Wait... How is Shaymin worthy of S-Rank? How is Victini not worthy of S-Rank? And how is Aimbipom worthy of B-Rank? I'm not necessarily arguing, just more looking for explanations... Also, Chandelure shouldn't be moved up. It lacks the speed of other power-houses and it's easily pursuit trapped, sucker punched, and walled by one of the most common Pokemon, Snorlax.
Emboar in RU has gone up to S rank and Emboar is incredibly slow, with 65 base speed.
Chandelure is up at 80 base speed which does outspeed quite a lot of the tier, particularly the walls it is supposed to break, and can also function as a revenge-killer with a Choice Scarf, so the speed is actually pretty good!
Also it has to be said that Chandelure makes teams run Snorlax, if Chandy was up in OU Snorlax would definitely go down in usage (usage =/= viability but just saying) due to one of his great niches being able to wall this big threat in Chandelure. Also while it is obviously easily pursuit-trapped and sucker punched you just need to play around that with good prediction; if you can do that then Chandelure will be an S-Rank threat.
Chandelure is up at 80 base speed which does outspeed quite a lot of the tier, particularly the walls it is supposed to break, and can also function as a revenge-killer with a Choice Scarf, so the speed is actually pretty good!
Also it has to be said that Chandelure makes teams run Snorlax, if Chandy was up in OU Snorlax would definitely go down in usage (usage =/= viability but just saying) due to one of his great niches being able to wall this big threat in Chandelure. Also while it is obviously easily pursuit-trapped and sucker punched you just need to play around that with good prediction; if you can do that then Chandelure will be an S-Rank threat.
Kingler12345
Looking at chandelure UU stats:
Energy Ball 73.617% of all Chandelures
Hidden Power Fighting 16.041% of all Chandelures
I'm surprised no one else commented on this. Just saying, you might wanna verify chandy's statistics before making a claim that Energy Ball isn't standard and HP Fighting is.
The main reason I see Chandelure as not S-rank is that it is put in an unfortunate position of being one of the slowest of all threats in the tier and anything that's even slower than it can fuck it up with priority (honch, bisharp, azumarill etc.). On top of this, it's pursuit weak, hazards weak and almost always gets hard countered by lax. Thus, it is limited with how much it can do once it's sent out and needs support to survive for for very long. If Victini is no longer S rank then I don't see chandy being S-rank anytime soon.
While I'm here can we move Azumarill down a rank? It can't do anything to common bulky waters and the whirlpool perish song set has to rely on whirlpool lasting 4 or 5 turns (and not missing) so it's pretty unreliable/gimmicky.
Looking at chandelure UU stats:
Energy Ball 73.617% of all Chandelures
Hidden Power Fighting 16.041% of all Chandelures
I'm surprised no one else commented on this. Just saying, you might wanna verify chandy's statistics before making a claim that Energy Ball isn't standard and HP Fighting is.
The main reason I see Chandelure as not S-rank is that it is put in an unfortunate position of being one of the slowest of all threats in the tier and anything that's even slower than it can fuck it up with priority (honch, bisharp, azumarill etc.). On top of this, it's pursuit weak, hazards weak and almost always gets hard countered by lax. Thus, it is limited with how much it can do once it's sent out and needs support to survive for for very long. If Victini is no longer S rank then I don't see chandy being S-rank anytime soon.
While I'm here can we move Azumarill down a rank? It can't do anything to common bulky waters and the whirlpool perish song set has to rely on whirlpool lasting 4 or 5 turns (and not missing) so it's pretty unreliable/gimmicky.
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If possible in future, can we please have reasons listed as to why certain pokemon are moved up or down? I don't know about other users, but I can rarely make it to IRC when this decision making is happening (AEST seems to be an awful time zone in order to see any chat in the UU IRC). Asides from that, some of these decisions make little sense without justification. I cannot understand at all how shaymin has gotten promoted to S-Rank all of a sudden, in a tier famous for fire types, crobat, heracross and other threats to it.
And if nothing else, I really do not like the lack of reasons posted. It would be a lot better to see some of the reasoning that contributes to the final decision, rather than no indication of why pokemon are moving up or down...
And if nothing else, I really do not like the lack of reasons posted. It would be a lot better to see some of the reasoning that contributes to the final decision, rather than no indication of why pokemon are moving up or down...
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
I honestly think we're taking S rank way too lightly, c'mon, shaymin to S and victini to A? and I also remember all those changes/drops from S a bit ago, seriously, something that's "metagame defining" or "too good to pass up" or even "suspect worthy" shouldn't just be messed around with like it's nothing imo
Psychotic
Banned deucer.
I have posted reasons for all the other updates, I didn't post reasons for the one before this most recent one because I was super fucking tired at the time, so I guess I will do it right now.
Escavalier from B ==> C rank
A pokemon that gives so many free switch-ins to some of the most common threats right now does not deserve to be in B rank. Qwilfish, Chandelure, Empoleon, Zapdos, all can switch in relatively safely and set up or 1hko this thing. Wallbreakers like this are not supposed to have so many good switch-ins. Druddigon is a far better option when it comes to being a bulky mon that hits insanely hard, because it has absolutely no counters in the tier, even its resists are 2 or 3HKO'd. Escavalier, on the other hand, lets the single most immediately threatening attacker, Chandelure, switch in for almost free.
Lilligant from B ==> C rank
Terrible coverage, is outsped by basically all scarfers after a boost, loses out on coverage on either Flying and Fire types or Steel and Grass types. Has way too many downsides to be B, but still has a decent enough niche to be C.
Nidoqueen from B ==> A rank
This mon is both an insanely consistent Stealth Rock user, can check a ton of things that threaten offensive teams, and it also 1HKO's a bunch of offensive mons, and can wallbreak as well. It's consistency, bulk and power together make it an A rank pokemon.
Swampert from B==> A rank
The people have spoken, and pretty much everyone said they wanted Swampert back to A when I changed it. I personally don't agree with this but a majority of people want it A because it is a super consistent SRer that checks a ton of threats.
Galvantula from B ==> C rank
Galvantula has terrible typing and terrible defense, there is really no reason to use this over Raikou or Zapdos, both of which contribute defensively to a team and are far more consistent.
Ambipom from kokoloko ==> C rank
Deserves to be higher than kokoloko, but no higher than C. It can demolish some offensive teams, but Ambipom is walled by a few common mons, and it is 1HKO'd by almost everything else. It adds literally nothing to the team synergy wise, which almost all other pokes do in some way, it leaves you having to cover everything you can in 5 pokes instead of 6. Against stall and balance teams this thing is next to useless in most cases, but it does have a niche against offense.
Azelf from A ==> B rank
Azelf is frail, and again, very easy to revenge and/or wall. It's main job is to get up Stealth Rock and die, which it does well, and it has great coverage, but doesn't have high enough base power attacks to wallbreak that well. It is useful as a Stealth Rock supporter, and can do a bit of damage after that, but most of the time it just gets up SR and dies.
Durant from B ==> C rank
Far too easy to revenge kill, it dies to pretty much any special attack, and bulky waters can switch directly into it and threaten to kill with scald. If it was bulkier on the Special side, it would be much, much better.
Zoroark from B ==> C rank
Zoroark is not very good. It is frail as hell, and pretty much revenged by anything.
Dusclops from Kokoloko ==> Lonelyness rank
It is the worst pokemon in the tier, and no one should use it in any situation. It is setup fodder for literally everything.
Victini down from S ==> A,
I realize that we are suspecting this thing, but why? Sure, it doesn't really have any counters, but it requires so much prediction to use, and it has to switch out after every kill meaning it dies very quickly if hazards are on the field. Everyone talks about how good it is because of it's unpredictability, but that has worn off. Every set now is either Choice Band or Expert Belt with Grass Knot/Bolt Strike/V-Create/U-Turn. There is nothing unpredictable about it. It's special set is unpredictable but lacks the sheer power of V-Create, which is the main reason to use Victini.
Shaymin from A ==> S
This thing has absolutely no safe switch in, and 40 percent of the time it's checks, like Snorlax and Bronzong, are no longer checks. Most of its checks can't do much to it anyway, and it's main offensive check in Crobat can be nuked by a Psychic on the predicted switch. Its base 100 speed is what sets it apart from other uncounterable pokemon like Kingdra, who can demolish teams but then gets revenged pretty easily by pokes like Timid Specs Chandy, Band Heracross and Roserade. The bulky SubSeed set is just as much of a bitch, especially because you have to assume offensive before the set is revealed, because it is so dangerous.
Holy shit that took a while
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I don't have much objection to a lot of your movements except for maybe Escavalier (since it's powerful and has a useful defensive typing, but I don't care about this one either way), at the risk of sounding negative and condescending, I think that when you're calling Dusclops the "worst UU Pokemon", you're probably forgetting about Claydol, who I believe is even worse than Dusclops. In other words, I'm nominating Claydol for Lonelyness Rank.
What does Claydol do? Well, I guess its role is a spinner. But it's absolutely terrible at the job; it attracts Ghost-types and it can't pull off a spin ever on them because they block it; and they also have a STAB Shadow Ball which Claydol is weak to, and even if Claydol has a super effective EQ on Chandy, Chandy is still beating it because Claydol is powerless. Claydol also loses to a lot of relevant Spikers; Roserade, Qwilfish, and Scolipede all beat it. Also, Claydol has a terrible defensive typing; it has a lot of unwanted weaknesses, and so much that when you go through the S and A lists; almost every one of those Pokemon can and will beat Claydol one on one. Claydol also has this terrible inability to switch into anything not called a predicted Ground or Electric-type move. It's bulk is kinda nice, sure, but Claydol lacks recovery, and again, having so many weaknesses really hurts it. This means Claydol is going to accomplish squat in most games. Of course, Claydol has absolutely no offensive presence. It has pitiful EQ's that do very little damage to anything; the best Claydol can do to fight is spam weak EQs or poison something with Toxic, which is a joke. Claydol gets set up on by like everything in the tier; even moreso than Dusclops, because of this.
So in a nutshell, Claydol can't spin worth a damn, has tons of exploitable weaknesses, is setup fodder for the whole tier, and is still outclassed as a spinner by all the others. If you want a Stealth Rock user, there are plenty of other choices, such as Swampert, Rhyperior, etc. As for spinning, I'd rather use Kabutops or Cryogonal for spinning, who aren't setup fodder. Claydol is a truly pitiful Pokemon, even moreso than Dusclops, and should never be used ever, making it worthy of Lonelyness Rank.
On a less condescending note, I think Hitmonlee should be added here, maybe in C or kokoloko, unsure about which one however. It has a cool EndureReversal with a Liechi Berry set, which makes good use of Unburden, and Hitmonlee can hit stupid hard at 1 HP with Reversal and it's also pretty fast, so after counters are gone it can do a lot of damage. The big problem is it gets wrecked by priority and there are common counters like Cofagrigus and Slowbro/King around so it needs some support to do well, also not to mention Heracross and Mienshao are more rewarding Fighting-types a lot of the time. Nonetheless though I'd like to see Hitmonlee on this list anyways, I don't care where it ends up, but imo it should be considered for a rank.
Also whatever happened to Machamp for C? I thought a lot of us agreed it's C material at best, it doesn't have much going for it atm.
Just my thoughts.
What does Claydol do? Well, I guess its role is a spinner. But it's absolutely terrible at the job; it attracts Ghost-types and it can't pull off a spin ever on them because they block it; and they also have a STAB Shadow Ball which Claydol is weak to, and even if Claydol has a super effective EQ on Chandy, Chandy is still beating it because Claydol is powerless. Claydol also loses to a lot of relevant Spikers; Roserade, Qwilfish, and Scolipede all beat it. Also, Claydol has a terrible defensive typing; it has a lot of unwanted weaknesses, and so much that when you go through the S and A lists; almost every one of those Pokemon can and will beat Claydol one on one. Claydol also has this terrible inability to switch into anything not called a predicted Ground or Electric-type move. It's bulk is kinda nice, sure, but Claydol lacks recovery, and again, having so many weaknesses really hurts it. This means Claydol is going to accomplish squat in most games. Of course, Claydol has absolutely no offensive presence. It has pitiful EQ's that do very little damage to anything; the best Claydol can do to fight is spam weak EQs or poison something with Toxic, which is a joke. Claydol gets set up on by like everything in the tier; even moreso than Dusclops, because of this.
So in a nutshell, Claydol can't spin worth a damn, has tons of exploitable weaknesses, is setup fodder for the whole tier, and is still outclassed as a spinner by all the others. If you want a Stealth Rock user, there are plenty of other choices, such as Swampert, Rhyperior, etc. As for spinning, I'd rather use Kabutops or Cryogonal for spinning, who aren't setup fodder. Claydol is a truly pitiful Pokemon, even moreso than Dusclops, and should never be used ever, making it worthy of Lonelyness Rank.
On a less condescending note, I think Hitmonlee should be added here, maybe in C or kokoloko, unsure about which one however. It has a cool EndureReversal with a Liechi Berry set, which makes good use of Unburden, and Hitmonlee can hit stupid hard at 1 HP with Reversal and it's also pretty fast, so after counters are gone it can do a lot of damage. The big problem is it gets wrecked by priority and there are common counters like Cofagrigus and Slowbro/King around so it needs some support to do well, also not to mention Heracross and Mienshao are more rewarding Fighting-types a lot of the time. Nonetheless though I'd like to see Hitmonlee on this list anyways, I don't care where it ends up, but imo it should be considered for a rank.
Also whatever happened to Machamp for C? I thought a lot of us agreed it's C material at best, it doesn't have much going for it atm.
Just my thoughts.
Just to nitpick, doesn't Claydol have better defenses than either of the other spinners in the tier? 79/100/105 for Blastoise and
50/95/110 (before Intimidate) for Hitmontop vs. 65/105/125 for Claydol, with none of them having instant recovery outside of the unusable Rest. I understand that it's really not the best Pokemon, but THAT bad? It can spin and can come in freely on all three entry hazards, it can set up rocks, it's got two very good immunities and four resistances to fairly popular types like Fighting and Rock (albeit undermined by SIX WEAKNESSES... why Game Freak -.-'), and paired with a Pursuit trapper it can lure things in and fulfill its role pretty well. It's probably not much better than the, erm, kokoloko tier (that is the weirdest thing to type out) and it needs support even as a support Pokemon itself, but it DOES have some niche in UU with its immunities and resistances, high defenses, and ability to spin and set up Stealth Rock in one Pokemon. Dusclops, on the other hand, is COMPLETELY outclassed by every other Ghost-type in UU... THAT is a truly Loneliness-ranked 'mon that deserves that spot.
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
claydol should be at least C rank because it is a somewhat effective spinner with good defending abilities. having a claydol on your team means you have an advantage already against most scarfers because most of them won't be able to lock themselves into their favorite moves (eq flygon, hjk mienshao, tbolt raikou) without facing the uncertainty of possibly allowing a free spin attempt or free sr set up or even a relatively dangerous attack. What claydol is dangerous?! yes you could and i will argue that because nobody else is defending claydol enough imo and because i think the argument has merit. eq and psychic which are really staples of most claydol and all claydol i use anyways have very strong base powers for defenders and do massive damage to things that are weak to it. luckily enough claydol typically counters or lures in things that are weak to its stab moves (the majority of fighting pokemon and raikou and chandelure) so if it gets in a free hit it may have a chance to win the match up, forget about just doing high damage. raikou is one of the best set up sweepers in the metagame and claydol is one of the best counters to him. in this limited but distinct sense claydol has some offense to it to not totally be passive. in fact the only things that can really set up on claydol for free are guys like curselax and crocune and maybe subhonchkrow yet most other spinners, hitmontop at least, cannot do too much to not be set up on these guys either.
claydol also has the advantage of condensing what are usually two or three distinct spots into a single pokemon, as it can be your go to raikou counter, sr user and your spinner in just one slot. as a sr user claydol has its bulk to look on to set up sr at least once a game, if you're very desperate and cannot find a good opening to ever use sr you can always just set up on a bulky water and take a scald, especially as most claydol now use max spdef i believe. as a spinner claydol can lure in and massively damage or kill the number one spinblocker, chandelure quite easily and with max spdef can actually eat a single scarfed shadowball. this isn't to mention beat most ghosts is relatively easy with a pursuit trapper or something to lure in sableye like an offensive roserade. hitmontop does well against spinblockers only if he can use foresight on the switch but even then things like specs chandelure can just ohko him as easily as it would ohko claydol (well maybe slightly less accounting for accuracy). with frosslass no longer uu it is much easier to justify using claydol as a spinner. blastoise will always be superior in spinning because of roar and scald and no big exploitable weaknesses but blastoise does not have access to sr nor can it simply ignore spikes and toxic spikes like claydol which also is resistant to stealth rock.
dusclops is also not quite as bad as people imagine, i suspect that this is because people much rather judge by whats now common wisdom instead of actually testing out the pokemon for themselves, that or they have seen inaccurate uses of dusclops on the ladder. dusclops big advantage over all other spinblockers is its great utility for defensive teams with curse and wall like status. in fact its defenses are really in my opinion the only thing that lets it not be outclassed by mismagius which i am not sure if anyone brought up who has access to a fast perish song which is more useful than a slow curse for pretty obvious reasons. as primarily a stall pokemon it is very misleading to judge dusclops by itself. stall teams are going to be passive so stall teams are going to allow for opportunities to attack but stall teams also have very good defensive abilities (or at least they should) with the sole exception i believe being hail stall which puts a greatly unequal weight on walrein, dusclops is going to be almost always paired up with counters to its counters if that makes sense. as in expect the dusclops team to have a solid response to say houndoom. the biggest reason why dusclops is bad imo is not because what people think, not because its too passive but rather because it has trouble against spinners. dusclops cannot for instance hope to block against foresight users apart from some seriously clever and smart double switching to a zapdos usually and cannot hope to block against anyone if it is sleeping. is that a big problem, yes i suppose it is but it is not large enough to forget about all of dusclops strengths and probably should make it a rank higher.
claydol also has the advantage of condensing what are usually two or three distinct spots into a single pokemon, as it can be your go to raikou counter, sr user and your spinner in just one slot. as a sr user claydol has its bulk to look on to set up sr at least once a game, if you're very desperate and cannot find a good opening to ever use sr you can always just set up on a bulky water and take a scald, especially as most claydol now use max spdef i believe. as a spinner claydol can lure in and massively damage or kill the number one spinblocker, chandelure quite easily and with max spdef can actually eat a single scarfed shadowball. this isn't to mention beat most ghosts is relatively easy with a pursuit trapper or something to lure in sableye like an offensive roserade. hitmontop does well against spinblockers only if he can use foresight on the switch but even then things like specs chandelure can just ohko him as easily as it would ohko claydol (well maybe slightly less accounting for accuracy). with frosslass no longer uu it is much easier to justify using claydol as a spinner. blastoise will always be superior in spinning because of roar and scald and no big exploitable weaknesses but blastoise does not have access to sr nor can it simply ignore spikes and toxic spikes like claydol which also is resistant to stealth rock.
dusclops is also not quite as bad as people imagine, i suspect that this is because people much rather judge by whats now common wisdom instead of actually testing out the pokemon for themselves, that or they have seen inaccurate uses of dusclops on the ladder. dusclops big advantage over all other spinblockers is its great utility for defensive teams with curse and wall like status. in fact its defenses are really in my opinion the only thing that lets it not be outclassed by mismagius which i am not sure if anyone brought up who has access to a fast perish song which is more useful than a slow curse for pretty obvious reasons. as primarily a stall pokemon it is very misleading to judge dusclops by itself. stall teams are going to be passive so stall teams are going to allow for opportunities to attack but stall teams also have very good defensive abilities (or at least they should) with the sole exception i believe being hail stall which puts a greatly unequal weight on walrein, dusclops is going to be almost always paired up with counters to its counters if that makes sense. as in expect the dusclops team to have a solid response to say houndoom. the biggest reason why dusclops is bad imo is not because what people think, not because its too passive but rather because it has trouble against spinners. dusclops cannot for instance hope to block against foresight users apart from some seriously clever and smart double switching to a zapdos usually and cannot hope to block against anyone if it is sleeping. is that a big problem, yes i suppose it is but it is not large enough to forget about all of dusclops strengths and probably should make it a rank higher.
I'd like to nominate Alomomola for C Rank. Yes, there are already a ton of viable bulky waters, but Alomomola does set itself apart decently, and it has a pretty solid niche. First of all, with its massive HP and solid Defense stats, it's capable of walling things that Suicune, Blastoise, and Swampert couldn't dream of. It's got a pure water typing over Slowbro, so it can actually handle non-SD Heracross quite well. It also has reliable recovery and can pass huge wishes to the team, supporting pretty well. It's huge set-up bait, and there's no getting around that, as it doesn't even have a momentum move, but with Regenerator, it's really difficult for your opponent to wear down or take advantage of unless they have a boosting sweeper, it gives wish support to the team and doesn't actually even need to use those wishes on itself a large amount of the time as it can just switch to something else that needs and heal itself. It's set-up bait, but it has wish support, regenerator, pure water typing, and stupid bulk to make up for it and give it a niche.
I'll also second Hitmonlee, although I'd even say it's A Rank, considering the definition of it. Endure + Reversal sounds ridiculous, but it's actually really difficult to play around. That Reversal is just stupidly powerful, you need to resist it to take one. Pair it with Pursuit support and if you've taken out Cofagrigus/Slowbro/Cresselia/Gligar/Dusclops/a few other things, and priority, it is the best late-cleaner possible. Of course, there are those ways to stop it, but there's ways to stop every pokemon, and that's what team support is for. Having used Hitmonlee teams before, I've been very successful with them, and it's very effective. It can sweep the majority of the metagame, especially when many teams will rely on Nidoqueen or Crobat as their fighting check, who can't stop a set-up Hitmonlee, falling to earthquake/stone edge. It does need pursuit support, and the fact that it's at 1 HP is a rather significant flaw, but the payoff and the effectiveness makes up for it.
252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 159-187 (29.77 - 35.01%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 207-244 (38.76 - 45.69%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 204-241 (38.2 - 45.13%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 204-240 (38.2 - 44.94%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 190-225 (35.58 - 42.13%) -- 91.11% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 226-266 (42.32 - 49.81%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 235-278 (44 - 52.05%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 207-244 (38.76 - 45.69%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 204-241 (38.2 - 45.13%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 204-240 (38.2 - 44.94%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 190-225 (35.58 - 42.13%) -- 91.11% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 226-266 (42.32 - 49.81%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 235-278 (44 - 52.05%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I'll also second Hitmonlee, although I'd even say it's A Rank, considering the definition of it. Endure + Reversal sounds ridiculous, but it's actually really difficult to play around. That Reversal is just stupidly powerful, you need to resist it to take one. Pair it with Pursuit support and if you've taken out Cofagrigus/Slowbro/Cresselia/Gligar/Dusclops/a few other things, and priority, it is the best late-cleaner possible. Of course, there are those ways to stop it, but there's ways to stop every pokemon, and that's what team support is for. Having used Hitmonlee teams before, I've been very successful with them, and it's very effective. It can sweep the majority of the metagame, especially when many teams will rely on Nidoqueen or Crobat as their fighting check, who can't stop a set-up Hitmonlee, falling to earthquake/stone edge. It does need pursuit support, and the fact that it's at 1 HP is a rather significant flaw, but the payoff and the effectiveness makes up for it.
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