Gligar should not be kept in against any Nasty Plot sweeper, an if he is, all he has to do is U-Turn/switch out to a Pokemon who can kill them before they are able to attack.
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The UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter PK Gaming
- Start date
Uh, Choice Band Swampert is used, albeit only 12% of them were Choice Banded, so i'll concede that point. Secondley, just because Gligar switches out of a Cobalion with Hidden Power Ice does not change the fact that Gligar cannot expect to switch in on Cobalion without risking being nailed by Hidden Power Ice and lose all ability to take on most physical attackers.
Of course, if you U-turn immediatley after switching into Heracross, you caan bring in a revenge killer on the SD. However, that means Gligar is coming back in with 61% of its health, and that quickly leads to it being broken up by the sweepers that psychotic has mentioned.
Dude, Crobat has fucking Roost as well, so it can just heal off the recoil it gets from Brave Bird and kill Gligar. Gligar's attacks either do absolutley nothing (Earthquake, Toxic) or barely leave a mark (Aerial Ace). Also, are seriously thinking that Corbat would only Taunt once when it is facing Gligar? it is much faster, so it can keep refreshing Taunt on Gligar until it dies. stop deluding yourself that Gligar somehow walls Crobat when it cannot do jackshit to it.
I would not. With U-turn and double switching, Gligar can be forced out without a chance of Roosting, and that is where it will start to crumble against powerful physical attackers.
The whole pint of that paragraph was to show that a 0 Atk investment Earthquake from base 75 Attack is not enough to stop anything halfway bulky from being able to tank them and set-up. I never said anything about Gligar staying in: Gligar is being forced OUT by these Pokemon due to his inability to deal a meaningful amount of damage-_-.
I think Gligar should stay in C purely because it has some notable flaws that hold it back. Firstly is the fact that Gligar is pretty weak, as an EQ coming off of 75 Attack isn't doing much to anything; it can't OHKO Darmanitan without any Attack investment lol. This basically means Gligar gets set up on by pretty much everything in UU because of how weak it is; the NP sweepers also grab a free turn because Gligar does almost nothing to them; namely Azelf, Cofagrigus, and Mismagius. The other thing is that Gligar loses to some variants of Pokemon it is supposed to beat; SD Heracross and HP Ice Mienshao beat it one on one. Gligar is also really easy to force out, with things like Azelf, Mismagius, etc. Eventually Gligar will also crumble to repeated onslaughts. I feel Gligar doesn't wall many threats in UU and is too flawed to be any higher than C-Rank.
I might also come back and nom something later.
I might also come back and nom something later.
What do you guys think about Roserade for S-rank?
It has a few viable sets, adding to it's unpredictability and now that it's the fastest spiker in UU, it's more usable than ever. It rocks one of the best offensive sets and not only dealing massive damage w/ leaf storm but also puts walls to sleep with sleep powder. It's a great defensive spiker, being able come in on a plethora of common bulky waters, set up spikes or t-spikes and heal off any damage w/ rest. Roserade can also use a few unique sets (I'm been using a defensive leech seed set w/ spikes set that's worked pretty well) fairly effectively. I think that overall it definitely performs on the same level as some of the other S ranked pokes.
It has a few viable sets, adding to it's unpredictability and now that it's the fastest spiker in UU, it's more usable than ever. It rocks one of the best offensive sets and not only dealing massive damage w/ leaf storm but also puts walls to sleep with sleep powder. It's a great defensive spiker, being able come in on a plethora of common bulky waters, set up spikes or t-spikes and heal off any damage w/ rest. Roserade can also use a few unique sets (I'm been using a defensive leech seed set w/ spikes set that's worked pretty well) fairly effectively. I think that overall it definitely performs on the same level as some of the other S ranked pokes.
Roserade, with the absence of Froslass, now reclaims its role as one of the best, if not the best UU spiker. Sure it faces competition from Qwifish, but Roserade has a few traits that Qwilfish lacks. Roserade is a special powerhouse and can plow through teams with its awesome SpA stat. I'll be sure to write about it more later.
TPO3
Never practice; Always perform.
Roserade for S-tier...hmm...I honestly am not sure.
Without Froslass, it definitely does become instantly better. Not only is it one of only three, maybe four viable spikers in the entire tier, but Froslass having access to Taunt and STAB Ice Beam also hindered it a lot. Offensively, Roserade is an extremely potent threat. It has access to Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, Extrasensory, and massive base 125 SpAtk. Rest and Synthesis both work for extra recovery.
The only thing that's ever bothered me about Roserade is how its egg moves work. With Spikes you lose access to Roserade's most powerful moves (Sleep Powder and Leaf Storm.) If you want an offensive spiker, you're forced to resort to Giga Drain, which makes you lose a lot of your power. You're almost better off using Custab Crustle. Roserade is used mostly as a defensive spiker, but I feel like it struggles to keep up in fast-paced games. It has almost no physical defense, and while its SpDef is good, most special threats run coverage moves that can hit it super-effectively (ie: Heat Wave Zapdos, Ice Beam Suicune, Psyshock Slowbro, etc.) I feel like Roserade fails to slow the game down and allow itself to set up spikes, as opposed to something like Qwilfish which can switch into Fighting-types at will, and set up spikes rather easily.
That being said, banning Froslass (and possibly Victini) is supposed to slow the tier down and make more defensive teams playable. If this is true, that's a real point in Roserade favor, I think. Roserade sets up spikes on defensive teams and even balanced teams a lot more easily then it does against offensive teams. Roserade can switch in and set up on some of the most common defensive threats and pivots rather easily. (Umbreon, defensive Slowking, Qwilfish, and all 3 spinners in the tier.) I really think it all depends on how the tier ends up shaking out after these suspect tests that will determine how good Roserade really is.
Without Froslass, it definitely does become instantly better. Not only is it one of only three, maybe four viable spikers in the entire tier, but Froslass having access to Taunt and STAB Ice Beam also hindered it a lot. Offensively, Roserade is an extremely potent threat. It has access to Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, Extrasensory, and massive base 125 SpAtk. Rest and Synthesis both work for extra recovery.
The only thing that's ever bothered me about Roserade is how its egg moves work. With Spikes you lose access to Roserade's most powerful moves (Sleep Powder and Leaf Storm.) If you want an offensive spiker, you're forced to resort to Giga Drain, which makes you lose a lot of your power. You're almost better off using Custab Crustle. Roserade is used mostly as a defensive spiker, but I feel like it struggles to keep up in fast-paced games. It has almost no physical defense, and while its SpDef is good, most special threats run coverage moves that can hit it super-effectively (ie: Heat Wave Zapdos, Ice Beam Suicune, Psyshock Slowbro, etc.) I feel like Roserade fails to slow the game down and allow itself to set up spikes, as opposed to something like Qwilfish which can switch into Fighting-types at will, and set up spikes rather easily.
That being said, banning Froslass (and possibly Victini) is supposed to slow the tier down and make more defensive teams playable. If this is true, that's a real point in Roserade favor, I think. Roserade sets up spikes on defensive teams and even balanced teams a lot more easily then it does against offensive teams. Roserade can switch in and set up on some of the most common defensive threats and pivots rather easily. (Umbreon, defensive Slowking, Qwilfish, and all 3 spinners in the tier.) I really think it all depends on how the tier ends up shaking out after these suspect tests that will determine how good Roserade really is.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Yes, Roserade's move legalities hamper it too much. If you want to lay spikes you are simply countered to quickly, and used as set up bait or a free switch. If I see a roserade laying spikes I instantly know I can rather safely switch in zapdos, victini, darmanitan, cobalion, crobat and a number of other pokemon with the offensive prowess to put much larger dents in teams than spikes. Ive been using a fast, sleep powder using attacker, the ability to put all those switch ins to sleep is invaluable for roserade. Spikes are great, indeed, but the enemy can take advantage of the turns you need to get them up, on top of this, a lot of prominent pokemon in UU are flying. Frosslass' destiny bond, taunts, rapid spin block, and speed resisted set up bait and big attackers. Who wants to try and set up on taunt + destiny bond + focus sash? Thats why frosslass could spike so well. If roserade could use spikes and sleep powder it could function similarly to that frosslass set by scaring the best counters, but it cant.
Examples to highlight Roserade's weaknesses; against a frosslass, crobat can switch in, and outspeed to one hit KO with a brave bird, but is threatened by an Ice beam, especially if frosslass' focus sash is active, however against roserade, sludge bomb, and giga drain are resisted greatly and a brave bird is an easy KO. Against a Cobalion frosslass can threaten it with a faster taunt to stop Cobalion's swords dance, stealth rock, substitute and taunt, then a faster destiny bond. ALthough good prediction, or a broken focus sash makes short work of frosslass's options, it still poses a threat to cobalion as a spiker. Roserade fails to do anything to it while leaving it the option to set up rocks, or a swords dance.
As a spiker its short comings are numerous. As an attacker, like I said i've been running, it certainly is not useless and not unfit for UU, but again, it cant overwhelm like many attackers in the tier can. Leaf storm running off 125 base SATK is great, but grass is a bad offensive type, something such as chandelure's overheat is a much stronger and overall a better BEEG DOMMAGE attacker, in fact chandelure completely walls roserade, sludge bomb, leaf storm and HP fire are all resistances or immunities. HP fire is generally run to at least hurt steels, but HP rock is a decent substitute, as pokemon like chandelure and crobat are more common than cobalion and bronzong as far as I know. Again, as an attacker sludge bomb is chosen often for a solid STAB move but poison is a worse offensive type than grass. In the last slot I choose a hidden power personally as I dont see much else in the movepool, but as outlined hidden power has its shortcomings. Shit base power in general, and even with it there are pokemon that will flat out wall your roserade.
Roserade is underwhelming in every way. If it forms excellent synergy with the rest of your team, or you demand spikes on your team, it can certainly fit, but I dont see roserade as being the core of any teams. I think roserade's best merit is being a good complement to offensive fire types that may struggle against defense water and rock types, but even then it feels as if simply running grass knot on victini, and the extent of Darmantan's attack is enough to break through a lot of those pokemon anyways.
Examples to highlight Roserade's weaknesses; against a frosslass, crobat can switch in, and outspeed to one hit KO with a brave bird, but is threatened by an Ice beam, especially if frosslass' focus sash is active, however against roserade, sludge bomb, and giga drain are resisted greatly and a brave bird is an easy KO. Against a Cobalion frosslass can threaten it with a faster taunt to stop Cobalion's swords dance, stealth rock, substitute and taunt, then a faster destiny bond. ALthough good prediction, or a broken focus sash makes short work of frosslass's options, it still poses a threat to cobalion as a spiker. Roserade fails to do anything to it while leaving it the option to set up rocks, or a swords dance.
As a spiker its short comings are numerous. As an attacker, like I said i've been running, it certainly is not useless and not unfit for UU, but again, it cant overwhelm like many attackers in the tier can. Leaf storm running off 125 base SATK is great, but grass is a bad offensive type, something such as chandelure's overheat is a much stronger and overall a better BEEG DOMMAGE attacker, in fact chandelure completely walls roserade, sludge bomb, leaf storm and HP fire are all resistances or immunities. HP fire is generally run to at least hurt steels, but HP rock is a decent substitute, as pokemon like chandelure and crobat are more common than cobalion and bronzong as far as I know. Again, as an attacker sludge bomb is chosen often for a solid STAB move but poison is a worse offensive type than grass. In the last slot I choose a hidden power personally as I dont see much else in the movepool, but as outlined hidden power has its shortcomings. Shit base power in general, and even with it there are pokemon that will flat out wall your roserade.
Roserade is underwhelming in every way. If it forms excellent synergy with the rest of your team, or you demand spikes on your team, it can certainly fit, but I dont see roserade as being the core of any teams. I think roserade's best merit is being a good complement to offensive fire types that may struggle against defense water and rock types, but even then it feels as if simply running grass knot on victini, and the extent of Darmantan's attack is enough to break through a lot of those pokemon anyways.
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Qwilphish
when everything you touch turns to gold
With the absence of Froslass, SO many Pokemon suddenly became 100x more viable, especially in the field of hazards. One of the Pokemon that I think got buffed the most is Xatu. Just to outline the rest of the post, I think that Xatu should be moved from B to A.
The most obvious reason I think that this change should be made is that with almost every of its sets, it can beat almost every Spiker in the tier, bar Crustle. This means that Xatu alone is able to stop Spike-Stacking HO teams which was one of the most prevalent playstyles before Froslass was banned. With other Spikers being proposed/being moved up in rank, I feel that moving Froslass up in rank is only natural due to how effective it is at its job, which is shutting them down.
As with most Pokemon, metagame shifts made some of Xatu's sets more favorable than others. Right now, I think that offensive Xatu is its best set. With a set of Grass Knot, Psyshock, Heat Wave, Roost with EBelt/LO with Max Offensive stats, Xatu is able to beat almost every dedicated hazard lead. Because Defensive sets were most commonly seen as the standard set, it is easy to forget Xatu's 95/95 Special Attacking stats which is decent for a Support Pokemon meaning that it can not only hit before the opponent most of the time, but it can hit deceptively hard as well.
Of course, it can still use its signature Defensive set to abuse its 4x Resitance to Fighting and immunity to Ground, but I feel like this set doesn't use it's ability to defeat many hazard setters to its advantage. With the growing number of Spikers in the tier that became more viable with the ban of Froslass, Xatu's job became that much easier and more worthwhile than ever before.
tl;dr Xatu: B to A.
The most obvious reason I think that this change should be made is that with almost every of its sets, it can beat almost every Spiker in the tier, bar Crustle. This means that Xatu alone is able to stop Spike-Stacking HO teams which was one of the most prevalent playstyles before Froslass was banned. With other Spikers being proposed/being moved up in rank, I feel that moving Froslass up in rank is only natural due to how effective it is at its job, which is shutting them down.
As with most Pokemon, metagame shifts made some of Xatu's sets more favorable than others. Right now, I think that offensive Xatu is its best set. With a set of Grass Knot, Psyshock, Heat Wave, Roost with EBelt/LO with Max Offensive stats, Xatu is able to beat almost every dedicated hazard lead. Because Defensive sets were most commonly seen as the standard set, it is easy to forget Xatu's 95/95 Special Attacking stats which is decent for a Support Pokemon meaning that it can not only hit before the opponent most of the time, but it can hit deceptively hard as well.
Of course, it can still use its signature Defensive set to abuse its 4x Resitance to Fighting and immunity to Ground, but I feel like this set doesn't use it's ability to defeat many hazard setters to its advantage. With the growing number of Spikers in the tier that became more viable with the ban of Froslass, Xatu's job became that much easier and more worthwhile than ever before.
tl;dr Xatu: B to A.
It just got moved up
Roserade's role in UU IMO is split about evenly between offense and being a defensive spiker, this part of its viability lies in its unpredecitability. I don't really think you should compare Froslass to Roserade because they function so differently and Froslass is generally an offensive, fast spiker while most Roserade spikes sets are gonna be more defensively based.
I'm gonna have to disagree with your take on offensive roserade. It has the 3rd highest special attack stat in the tier which, when coupled with it's ability to put things to sleep, absolutely tears teams apart. I also disagree with your statement about grass being a bad offensive typing for a few reasons:
1) you compare Roserade's leaf storm to Chandy's overheat, saying Roserade's attack lacks the power of chandy's. The problem with this is that the main specially defensive behemoth, snorlax, resists overheat, whereas it takes an easy 50% from leaf storm.
2) There's an undeniable surplus of bulky waters in UU which resist fire and are weak to grass.
3) Roserade's coverage moves actually compliment its main grass stab very well unlike with chandelure: Sludge bomb OHKOs Abomasnow and almost every Shaymin set and puts huge chunks into Xatu and Zapdos while extrasensory wrecks poison types like itself and has a 69% (it's actually 69% I'm not making this up) chance to ohko max HP crobat after rocks damage. Yes, if it doesn't have HP fire to hit steel types, it can't hit them very hard but there's where sleep powder comes in.
There's nothing in UU that can comfortably take a hit from Roserade and then still function after absorbing a sleep powder. On top of this, unless there's a crobat on the other team, offensive roserade doesn't even need to predict. Of course this is not even to mention it's ability as a spikes setter (it's now the only one only UU). That's why I think Roserade has earned A rank.
Also, timid Roserade can do 70% to chandelure with leaf storm, you can't say chandelure walls Roserade as it's slower than it and has around a 40% chance to get 2HKOd even from absolute full health.
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The thing with Roserade is just like Victini. People get scared on that initial turn or two because they don't know what to expect. A Specially Defensive Set plays much differently, and is played around much differently, than a Toxic Spikes + Sleep Powder, or Spikes set. People seem to not like having to gauge what kind of set a Mon is.
Roserade should be S-ranked because unboosted, Roserade has the ability to 2HK Snorlax after hazards. For a Special attacker to do that is basically unheard of (Offensive set obviously). A skilled player, such as DatSuperNoob, utilizing Sleep Powder, Rest, Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and Life Orb can inflict so much hurt. A weakness of one of my teams is that I'm always Roserade weak. Roserade is frail; however, what she lacks in defense she makes up in offensive prowess and versatility.
It's ability Natural Cure gives Roserade pseudo-reliable recovery, also acting as a status Absorber, thereby beating pokes like Sableye with no problem.
I support Roserade being S-ranked; however, I do think it has flaws that could make it A-ranked as well, so either case I'm fine.
Roserade should be S-ranked because unboosted, Roserade has the ability to 2HK Snorlax after hazards. For a Special attacker to do that is basically unheard of (Offensive set obviously). A skilled player, such as DatSuperNoob, utilizing Sleep Powder, Rest, Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and Life Orb can inflict so much hurt. A weakness of one of my teams is that I'm always Roserade weak. Roserade is frail; however, what she lacks in defense she makes up in offensive prowess and versatility.
It's ability Natural Cure gives Roserade pseudo-reliable recovery, also acting as a status Absorber, thereby beating pokes like Sableye with no problem.
I support Roserade being S-ranked; however, I do think it has flaws that could make it A-ranked as well, so either case I'm fine.
I think adding A+ B+ ,B- A- or something like that would be really good and helpful considering the large amount of poks that are in those tiers.
I was actually the first to propose this for this tier, albeit for the lower ranks, and I feel it's time we implement it. All the other major tiers, including Little Cup, have taken this approach. The simple ranking from S to D is just too vague, and within these separate ranks, tiers are bound to form, resulting in the likes of the plus, mis, and minus tags associated with the letter rankings. Now that BW UU is practically over, it seems that it'd be more than safe and reasonable that we could implement a new ranking system that includes plus, mid, and minus. Whether or not we should bother doing so with S-Rank I'll leave to a populous decision, but A through D need this now. Even looking at the rankings myself, I notice that they are vague, and certain Pokemon in each rank are better than others.
If you need help with it PsYc0t1c, I'd be more than willing to help you.
If you need help with it PsYc0t1c, I'd be more than willing to help you.
Just because Froslass is gone doesn't make Roserade all too better than she was before. That said, if the Victini ban goes through things could be different. I don't think Roserade deserves to be in S rank purely because of the predictability of most of the sets. Due to the incompatibility issues that keep Roserade from being much better, it is pretty easy to tell the entire set of Roserade as soon as you see the first move. If it could run Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Leaf Storm, and Sleep Powder all in the set it would be much more threatening.
That brings me to my next point, which is that Rose suffers awfully from a bad case of 4MSS. She wants to keep dual stab, and perhaps even HP fire to combat steels. At the same time, spikes or toxic spikes are invaluable, and Sleep Powder gives amazing Utility. Things like Aromatherapy also call out, as well as Rest or Synthesis to keep Roserade up to full and actually make use of Natural Cure. Because she is so limited, though, her roles are narrowed down into very specific things and she can be walled quite easily. In my eyes, Roserade should stay in A-rank.
That brings me to my next point, which is that Rose suffers awfully from a bad case of 4MSS. She wants to keep dual stab, and perhaps even HP fire to combat steels. At the same time, spikes or toxic spikes are invaluable, and Sleep Powder gives amazing Utility. Things like Aromatherapy also call out, as well as Rest or Synthesis to keep Roserade up to full and actually make use of Natural Cure. Because she is so limited, though, her roles are narrowed down into very specific things and she can be walled quite easily. In my eyes, Roserade should stay in A-rank.
I agree that Roserade isn't any better now that lass is gone but it is more viable, which is the basis on which these pokes are being rated.
I don't think that 4mss is necessarily a bad thing for a poke to have as it means that it has a pretty good move pool to pick from in the first place. While its set may be revealed relatively quickly one has to assume that it's the offensive set and make relatively safe switches until the set is revealed. This gives the spikes set even better viability as simply the potential power of Roserade could force a switch that could allow it to get up an extra layer of spikes or two.
I don't think that 4mss is necessarily a bad thing for a poke to have as it means that it has a pretty good move pool to pick from in the first place. While its set may be revealed relatively quickly one has to assume that it's the offensive set and make relatively safe switches until the set is revealed. This gives the spikes set even better viability as simply the potential power of Roserade could force a switch that could allow it to get up an extra layer of spikes or two.
If we are doing Top/ mid / low rankings, here is how it should look IMO.
@PsYch071c Feel free to use this as a guide if you plan on implementing Top / mid / low rankings.
S Rank
Top
Top
Top
Top
Top
Top
-
- (Maybe Heracross and Mienshao if people think that its good enough for S-Rank)
Top
Top
Top
Top
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I'd agree with that list almost entirely (I think Mienshao is good enough for S-Rank but that's imo), but a couple of things.
Roserade to Top A because it's a pretty useful Pokemon. Natural Cure is such a great ability for teams that hate Bulky Waters and Sableye/Dusclops, and Roserade has the tools it needs to beat those Pokemon one-on-one; it's a great offensive powerhouse with that Leaf Storm from LO or Specs which hits like a truck full of bricks; Roserade's coverage isn't terrible either. Sleep Powder is neat to incapacitate something too. The Spikes set isn't as great as it was in BW1 but Roserade is still one of the better spikers out there and it's a useful mon overall, Top A imo.
I'm not sure on Sableye, it might be Mid B material maybe because Sableye is pretty one dimensional and there are some ways to stop it from being able to force you to pull your hair out. It's annoying but it might be more of a Mid B; I'd be fine if it stays in Top B though.
Escavalier to Mid B because it's a really good Pokemon. That typing is really good by UU standards and Escavalier can check hail while it has a slew of resistances and nice bulk, so it can nuke a lot of shit with CB Megahorn. Megahorn is stupidly powerful and Escavalier is just a fantastic wallbreaker; having good bulk on both sides is an advantage over Durant, and unlike Durant it doesn't have to rely on inaccurate moves; also Escavalier can afford a miss. Escavalier is really good on hail, TR, and bulky offense, definitely a Mid B mon imo.
Gligar might actually seem like a Mid C Pokemon to me because I haven't seen it accomplish much. Gligar doesn't even beat many threats and the biggest problem I have with it is that it's setup fodder for the whole tier. It only walls Scarf Flygon and Scarf Heracross, but that doesn't really say much.
Just my two cents.
Roserade to Top A because it's a pretty useful Pokemon. Natural Cure is such a great ability for teams that hate Bulky Waters and Sableye/Dusclops, and Roserade has the tools it needs to beat those Pokemon one-on-one; it's a great offensive powerhouse with that Leaf Storm from LO or Specs which hits like a truck full of bricks; Roserade's coverage isn't terrible either. Sleep Powder is neat to incapacitate something too. The Spikes set isn't as great as it was in BW1 but Roserade is still one of the better spikers out there and it's a useful mon overall, Top A imo.
I'm not sure on Sableye, it might be Mid B material maybe because Sableye is pretty one dimensional and there are some ways to stop it from being able to force you to pull your hair out. It's annoying but it might be more of a Mid B; I'd be fine if it stays in Top B though.
Escavalier to Mid B because it's a really good Pokemon. That typing is really good by UU standards and Escavalier can check hail while it has a slew of resistances and nice bulk, so it can nuke a lot of shit with CB Megahorn. Megahorn is stupidly powerful and Escavalier is just a fantastic wallbreaker; having good bulk on both sides is an advantage over Durant, and unlike Durant it doesn't have to rely on inaccurate moves; also Escavalier can afford a miss. Escavalier is really good on hail, TR, and bulky offense, definitely a Mid B mon imo.
Gligar might actually seem like a Mid C Pokemon to me because I haven't seen it accomplish much. Gligar doesn't even beat many threats and the biggest problem I have with it is that it's setup fodder for the whole tier. It only walls Scarf Flygon and Scarf Heracross, but that doesn't really say much.
Just my two cents.
Here's my take on some of them:
Top
- Abomasnow
- Chandelure
- Cofagrigus
- Heracross
- Mienshao
- Raikou
- Rhyperior
- Roserade
- Azelf
- Crobat
- Darmanitan
- Flygon
- Mew
- Sharpedo
- Shaymin
- Venomoth
- Weavile
- Qwilfish
- Slowbro
- Slowking
- Swampert
- Umbreon
Top
Low
- Accelgor
- Crustle
- Gligar
- Golurk
- Hitmontop
- Houndoom
- Krookodile
- Mismagius
- Omastar
- Rotom-Mow
- Uxie
- Bisharp
- Eelektross
- Ferroseed
- Magneton
- Registeel
Low
- Clefable
- Milotic
- Sceptile
- Tangrowth
Psychotic
Banned deucer.
I am not going to make sub rankings for this thing. That would make it even more subjective and cluttered than the current rankings already are. If you look at the S-tier mons, you could make the argument that any one of them is the best mon in the tier, and they do completely different jobs that can't really be compared down to that level. Does Snorlax counter special attackers better than Victini breaks down walls? Who the hell knows. 5 tiers is plenty.
This isn't really how sub rankings should be like. Sub-rankings categorize Pokemon by their overall effectiveness, not by effectiveness in specific sets.
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Ok I don't know how I missed this before but Milotic for Kokoloko or even Lonelyness rank. :n
Why? It has no viability right now. Show me milotic's role on a team and I'll show you 3 pokes that can do its specific job better.
If you want a want a bulky water-type dragon tail phazer, slowking shits all over Milotic with better typing, better moves and a better ability. If Milotic doesn't have rest, a simple toxic means it's pretty much already dead as it can't gain hp back by switching out and gives the opponent a free turn by recovering. If it does have rest (and sleep talk) then it gets completely outclassed but the faster, bulkier, better phazing move using Suicune. It needs to be statused/status itself just to be able to take hits around the same level as Suicune.
Specially defensively, it's already got worse special bulk than snorlax and umbreon and those 2 don't get destroyed by common grass and electric-type special attackers. At least Electivire and Claydol and friends can do things other pokes can't, but I really don't think Milotic should be used much in UU outside of for looks. Even a potential specs set gets outclassed by Empoleon.
If you have a counter argument, I'm curious to hear it.
Why? It has no viability right now. Show me milotic's role on a team and I'll show you 3 pokes that can do its specific job better.
If you want a want a bulky water-type dragon tail phazer, slowking shits all over Milotic with better typing, better moves and a better ability. If Milotic doesn't have rest, a simple toxic means it's pretty much already dead as it can't gain hp back by switching out and gives the opponent a free turn by recovering. If it does have rest (and sleep talk) then it gets completely outclassed but the faster, bulkier, better phazing move using Suicune. It needs to be statused/status itself just to be able to take hits around the same level as Suicune.
Specially defensively, it's already got worse special bulk than snorlax and umbreon and those 2 don't get destroyed by common grass and electric-type special attackers. At least Electivire and Claydol and friends can do things other pokes can't, but I really don't think Milotic should be used much in UU outside of for looks. Even a potential specs set gets outclassed by Empoleon.
If you have a counter argument, I'm curious to hear it.
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Not that I'm arguing with you here, cause I really don't have it in me to fight with someone over whether something's worthy of even being considered for a team or not (Because I'm the type of douche who shamelessly will use some weird stuff on a serious-looking team), but I want to at least point out a few positives Milotic has going for itself. But first I will agree with you that it's somewhat-outclassed. Being specially defensive and a water-type, it is somewhat outclassed by Slowking, not gonna lie. And from my experience, SubDD Kingdra can actually get past you as you need like...SIGNIFICANT Atk investment to break its subs with Dragon Tail, meaning you'd have to run Haze in order to beat it one-on-one.
However, from my experience using it, I needed a Pokemon who could do all of what Slowking did while actually performing as a somewhat-decent Chandelure check (Just avoid Energy Ball and Trick and you're gold), as well as something that wouldn't end up being 3HKO'd by a common U-Turn. Honestly, Milotic served me pretty nicely the way I had it and I do think it's worth using if your team has issues with Chandelure and the like. It still managed to check the Nidos pretty nicely, and most special attackers who didn't pack a STAB Grass/Electric move, honestly.
Once again, not here to butt heads with you on the matter cause I really don't care THAT much. Just wanted to put my 2 cents on some of Milotic's redeeming qualities.
I suppose that is a decent enough reason to use milotic but it's still a really specific role in which it is worthwhile using over something else. Thus, I agree it could be useful but overall its viability still ranks pretty low.