The UU Viablity Rankings topic.

[SlottedPig]

Hello, PK Gaming; interesting thread. This post is purely made up of what I think should drop down a tier.

Spiritomb: A ---> B: This ghost is the most popular choice as a second rapid spin blocker alongside Froslass, but what it doesn't have terribly much over Mismagius and Rotom. Sure, no weaknesses is nice, but Spiritomb is just bait for many things. Let's take a look at Suspect / S tiers:

Registeel ... will see Spiritomb as free Stealth Rock
Venusaur ... will see Spiritomb as a time to switch-in (SDers) (Will~o~Wisp might hurt)
Raikou ... will see Spiritomb as a free sweep
Rhyperior ... can inflict a devastating blow or set up Rock Polish
Milotic ... will actually beat Spiritomb after a fairly exhausting war
Moltres ... can start a rampageFroslass ... is fairly scared, but Bulky can set up Spikes on certain versions

I'm going to classify Spiritomb - that poses any kind of threat - as either a Will~o~Wisp carrier or Calm Minder. The other two viable sets are leads that really don't shine mid-game.

Will~o~Wisp carrier can cripple Rhyperior and Venusaur, but not much else on the list. Raikou and Registeel will take it as an annoyance at best, and Milotic and Moltres love switching in on this. Froslass will rarely switch into Spiritomb directly.

Calm Minder excels in combatting the lower tiers but blows against this list.

Lanturn: B ---> C : With Milotic as the premier Water type Lanturn hides in the shadows - well-lit because of Lanturn's light, and the Pokemon realizes it's not truly awful. It comes into play, realizes it has niches. But are they enough to yield such a high ranking? I think not; what can you use Lanturn for anyway? In the "Sasha Fierce" team, it served as a powerful core, sure, but how good was that surprise once you started battling the same people? Parafusion is much too risky a strategy in nowadays UU, and Lanturn is demoted to spamming Thunder Wave on anything that moves. On Rain teams it might see a little more use, but there are still better options.

Slowking: B ---> C: The king of slowness? Probably. A freakish ventroliquist? Perhaps. Overly useful in UU? I think not. Slowking's mediocre-at-best physical Defense means it won't tank Water types (Azumarill and Feraligatr) nearly as well. Many special attackers hit so hard that Slowking won't have time to heal; Moltres' Air Slash shaves a healthy chunk off the top of Slowking's HP. If this tries to Nasty Plot (the reason, I'm guessing, for it's high rank), Milotic can always Haze it, and Rhyperior and Venusaur scare it so badly it's not coming in without ship~shape prediction (or, more probably, a solution to the threats). Definetely C material.

 

[PK Gaming]

Hello, PK Gaming; interesting thread. This post is purely made up of what I think should drop down a tier.

Spiritomb: A ---> B: This ghost is the most popular choice as a second rapid spin blocker alongside Froslass, but what it doesn't have terribly much over Mismagius and Rotom. Sure, no weaknesses is nice, but Spiritomb is just bait for many things. Let's take a look at Suspect / S tiers:

Registeel ... will see Spiritomb as free Stealth Rock
Venusaur ... will see Spiritomb as a time to switch-in (SDers) (Will~o~Wisp might hurt)
Raikou ... will see Spiritomb as a free sweep
Rhyperior ... can inflict a devastating blow or set up Rock Polish
Milotic ... will actually beat Spiritomb after a fairly exhausting war
Moltres ... can start a rampageFroslass ... is fairly scared, but Bulky can set up Spikes on certain versions

I'm going to classify Spiritomb - that poses any kind of threat - as either a Will~o~Wisp carrier or Calm Minder. The other two viable sets are leads that really don't shine mid-game.

Will~o~Wisp carrier can cripple Rhyperior and Venusaur, but not much else on the list. Raikou and Registeel will take it as an annoyance at best, and Milotic and Moltres love switching in on this. Froslass will rarely switch into Spiritomb directly.

Calm Minder excels in combatting the lower tiers but blows against this list.



Fair enough points. I'll drop it to B.

Lanturn: B ---> C : With Milotic as the premier Water type Lanturn hides in the shadows - well-lit because of Lanturn's light, and the Pokemon realizes it's not truly awful. It comes into play, realizes it has niches. But are they enough to yield such a high ranking? I think not; what can you use Lanturn for anyway? In the "Sasha Fierce" team, it served as a powerful core, sure, but how good was that surprise once you started battling the same people? Parafusion is much too risky a strategy in nowadays UU, and Lanturn is demoted to spamming Thunder Wave on anything that moves. On Rain teams it might see a little more use, but there are still better options.

Done and Done.

Slowking: B ---> C: The king of slowness? Probably. A freakish ventroliquist? Perhaps. Overly useful in UU? I think not. Slowking's mediocre-at-best physical Defense means it won't tank Water types (Azumarill and Feraligatr) nearly as well. Many special attackers hit so hard that Slowking won't have time to heal; Moltres' Air Slash shaves a healthy chunk off the top of Slowking's HP. If this tries to Nasty Plot (the reason, I'm guessing, for it's high rank), Milotic can always Haze it, and Rhyperior and Venusaur scare it so badly it's not coming in without ship~shape prediction (or, more probably, a solution to the threats). Definetely C material.

Kinda of gray area here. The NP set you mentioned is not the main set (the bulky water is) and while he may not take physical hits nearly as well he can keep Moltres in check with his higher SpD. It's not that much behind Slowbro, thats why it's in the same tier as he is. I don't know let's see what others think.


PS: Lights out for me. Later everyone.

 

[lordkira]

ummm shouldn't raikou also be in the suspect level?

 

[ToF]

Hello, PK Gaming; interesting thread. This post is purely made up of what I think should drop down a tier.

Spiritomb: A ---> B: This ghost is the most popular choice as a second rapid spin blocker alongside Froslass, but what it doesn't have terribly much over Mismagius and Rotom. Sure, no weaknesses is nice, but Spiritomb is just bait for many things. Let's take a look at Suspect / S tiers:

Registeel ... will see Spiritomb as free Stealth Rock
Venusaur ... will see Spiritomb as a time to switch-in (SDers) (Will~o~Wisp might hurt)
Raikou ... will see Spiritomb as a free sweep
Rhyperior ... can inflict a devastating blow or set up Rock Polish
Milotic ... will actually beat Spiritomb after a fairly exhausting war
Moltres ... can start a rampageFroslass ... is fairly scared, but Bulky can set up Spikes on certain versions

I'm going to classify Spiritomb - that poses any kind of threat - as either a Will~o~Wisp carrier or Calm Minder. The other two viable sets are leads that really don't shine mid-game.

Will~o~Wisp carrier can cripple Rhyperior and Venusaur, but not much else on the list. Raikou and Registeel will take it as an annoyance at best, and Milotic and Moltres love switching in on this. Froslass will rarely switch into Spiritomb directly.

Calm Minder excels in combatting the lower tiers but blows against this list.

You're clearly underestimately Spiritomb, especially since its not even used to counter half of that list. Crotomb always beats Milotic without Haze, I always bring in Spiritomb on Registeel to fire off WoW's, and catching stuff like Rhyperior on the switch makes it much easier to handle. Not too long ago a set of Calm Mind, Dark Pulse, Wow, and Rest was very difficult to handle, covering almost all of stall's end game weaknesses. So Spiritomb definitely deserves the A ranking.

Slowking: B ---> C: The king of slowness? Probably. A freakish ventroliquist? Perhaps. Overly useful in UU? I think not. Slowking's mediocre-at-best physical Defense means it won't tank Water types (Azumarill and Feraligatr) nearly as well. Many special attackers hit so hard that Slowking won't have time to heal; Moltres' Air Slash shaves a healthy chunk off the top of Slowking's HP. If this tries to Nasty Plot (the reason, I'm guessing, for it's high rank), Milotic can always Haze it, and Rhyperior and Venusaur scare it so badly it's not coming in without ship~shape prediction (or, more probably, a solution to the threats). Definetely C material.

Again, you're being harsh probably because you've never used Slowking like I have. How can Slowking not tank Azumarill's hits when its resistant to Focus Punch? Yeah Choice Band can hurt quite a bit, though the only move that hurts is Return, and it hits even Milotic decently hard. Moltres will never 2HKO Slowking, you can always Slack Off, so that was a moot point as well. Nasty Plot has nothing to do with its high ranking, its the fact that it walls all offensive Water and Fire type Pokemon with relative ease. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it should be at a lower tier ;). Oh, and FYI, Slowking gets a STAB Psychic, so Venusaurs should watch out when switching in unless they want to lose half of their health, something other bulky Waters cannot claim with the significantly weaker Ice Beam without STAB

 

[flashbolt]

I'd just like to say that its quite funny that most of the Pokemon I use are all within the B-C rank lol, and I don't lose much in this tier. So even though this thread might convince you to use all the S and A rank Pokemon, remember that they aren't necessarily the best!

That being said, too many defensive Pokemon are being shunned by this list. Its pretty obvious the list favors offensive Pokemon...

Truth.

That said Im fairly happy with the list atm.

Small possible changes;
Drifblim up to D
perhaps Nidoqueen down to D
Dugtrio up one

 

[Bluewind]

I believe Charizard deserves a mention, possibly as a class C-D poké (leaning towards C though), because of his beastly Sub Petaya set, good speed (better than Moltres' FTR, being possibly a decent replacement if Moltres ever gets banned) and variety of sets (Belly Drum, DD and such). On the same vein is Magmortar, who could be even considered a low B mon, because of his ability to get past Milotic and Chansey.

 

[PK Gaming]

Alright I've added the updates. Also, I personally think that Typhlosion is close to Charizard (if not almost equal) and I put him in C.

 

[Megan_Fox]

Entei might be able to earn a mention somewhere..with it getting flare blitz soon, it may be even a more superior resttalker to that of arcanine with a higher speed and base hp

 

[PK Gaming]

Entei might be able to earn a mention somewhere..with it getting flare blitz soon, it may be even a more superior resttalker to that of arcanine with a higher speed and base hp

Definitely. Hopefully he gains a random nature for more flexibility.
Possible strong C?

 

[Megan_Fox]

sounds good to me. hope he gets random nature too

 

[Naxte]

It won't be though, unfortunately--it's Shiny, which means the nature will be locked; that's just how the Wonder Cards for Shinies work.

 

[Lil Niglet]

I think Ambipomb should go down a rank because he seems as if he is losing his usefulness as a lead/general pokemon.

 

[Delko]

I think Ambipomb should go down a rank because he seems as if he is losing his usefulness as a lead/general pokemon.

What? This is not true, Ambipom is still a great lead and has one of the fastest Taunts in UU. His STAB'ed Fake Out also hurts.

 

[GMLW]

Ambipom is one of the few leads who can outspeed and Taunt Froslass, the only other one being Sneasel.

Fake Out is kinda useless on Ambipom. Sure, it gets STAB and Technician, but the point of it is to break Sashes. How many UU leads use Sash other than the immune Froslass?

 

[Bluewind]

Ambipom does not run Fake Out merely do deal with Focus Sash. It puts things like Moltres into Return's KO range and is an awesome priority move for revenge killing throughout the match.

 

[Lucario_Skywalker]

I'd just like to say that tiering Pokemon, while an interesting community project, should do NOTHING towards deciding your team. Using a bunch of S's, A's, and B's on a team just because they're S, A, or B doesn't warrant a good team. As long as you give the team support it needs, it'll be as awesome as any other Pokemon. For example, I love using Drifblim. Its sweeper set has sweeped whole teams for me, yet it's only D as of right now, which is below average. Consider the tier list for Super Smash Bros. Tiering them doesn't decide which ones are the best to use all the time. Meta Knight is the #1 ranked brawler right now and Yoshi is somewhere in the 30's. Yet Yoshi is usually seen as the best Meta Knight counter. So my point is, you shouldn't use this list for deciding upon your teams.

On to the tiers. Rhyperior is great, I admit, but S rank? Isn't that a bit too high? I think it should be moved down to A, possibly B. Throw one super-effective attack or high-powered special attack and it's gone. If Rhyperior is gone from S, then maybe Donphan or Arcanine could take its place.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yoshi seen as the best Metaknight counter? I'm sorry but that's just wrong. LOL.
It's different in vBrawl though, as it's incredibly overpowered.

As for Rhyperior, I can attest to it's sheer power. The CB set is waaa y to strong. It's "counters" can only realistically counter it once. It definetely deserve S.

 

[GMLW]

I'd just like to say that tiering Pokemon, while an interesting community project, should do NOTHING towards deciding your team. Using a bunch of S's, A's, and B's on a team just because they're S, A, or B doesn't warrant a good team. As long as you give the team support it needs, it'll be as awesome as any other Pokemon.

We know that.

For example, I love using Drifblim. Its sweeper set has sweeped whole teams for me, yet it's only D as of right now, which is below average.

Yep, and other people are very successful with NU's in OU. But the NU's are still worse than the OU's.

Consider the tier list for Super Smash Bros. Tiering them doesn't decide which ones are the best to use all the time. Meta Knight is the #1 ranked brawler right now and Yoshi is somewhere in the 30's. Yet Yoshi is usually seen as the best Meta Knight counter.

Since when have Pokemon and SSBB been the same?

So my point is, you shouldn't use this list for deciding upon your teams.

We know.

On to the tiers. Rhyperior is great, I admit, but S rank? Isn't that a bit too high? I think it should be moved down to A, possibly B. Throw one super-effective attack or high-powered special attack and it's gone.

You have clearly never faced a Rhyperior before. Or at least not in the hands of a competent player.

If Rhyperior is gone from S, then maybe Donphan or Arcanine could take its place.

WHY THE FUCK AREN'T ARCANINE AND DONPHAN S RANK?! Seriously, the amount of Pokemon in a tier isn't that important, Arcanine and Donphan need to be moved to S Rank NAO!

 

[Thund91]

WHY THE FUCK AREN'T ARCANINE AND DONPHAN S RANK?! Seriously, the amount of Pokemon in a tier isn't that important, Arcanine and Donphan need to be moved to S Rank NAO!

Arcanine and Donphan are fine where they are right now, I honestly don't think they deserve S rank.

And I still don't understand why Raikou isn't under the Suspect tier, considering he has been, you know, a suspect while Froslass wasn't even a suspect last round.

 

[GMLW]

Well, he isn't a suspect anymore, so...

Anyway, Donphan and Arcanine need to be moved up. Donphan is one of the best spinners and gets moves such as Stealth Rock, Ice Shard, Assurance, and Stone Edge, coming off of its quite powerful Attack. Not to mention its good Defense.

Arcanine is an incredibly versatile Pokemon. With tons of viable sets, and very good stats all around (it has a BST better than that of Gyarados), it is quite unpredictable. While you could say that the Morning Glory set is much too common for it to be unpredictable, people who assume that will be disappointed when they switch into the wrong set. It also has Intimidate, allowing it to function as a physical tank. Plus, it has access to the powerful STAB Flare Blitz to tear stuff apart.

tl;dr Move them up.

 

[M BLADE]

I agree about Arcanine.

Arcanine has the highest BST of all non legendary/"semi legendary" pokes (Slaking was made only to "test" the abilities/traits, like Shedinja).

Arcanine is indeed very versatile... surprisingly it has a shallow movepool, but it has very good options for UU.
It's bulky, it hits hard from both sides, it's fast.
It has little counters if we consider all his movepool since the SunnyBeam set walks over it's usual counters.

Intimidate is very nice, and lets Arcanine counter many things.
If you can get the boost, Flash Fire can turn Arcanine into a very, very mean poke.

IMO Arcanine needs to move up.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Move Raikou up to Suspect and Arcanine up to S. Problem solved.

 

[PK Gaming]

Done and done. Raikou is become to ridiculous in this metagame imo and should be considered *suspect* level.

 

[Thund91]

I can list characteristics of any poke and say "move them up." But whatever. I'm clearly outnumbered on this.

 

[Brammi]

Umbreon should be on a higher level. It is one of the best walls in the teir. It is a staple to every BP team in the teir. (Not to mention in many OU ones as well)
It also has the ability to set up on the other walls in the teir with taunt or mean look and can support sweepers by allowing them a clean entry. If it is at a stage where phasing isn't an option then haze milotic is about the only thing that can stop it once it has cursed up.