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Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]

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Haunted24 said:
Someone explain please, why is sylveon b+ and chansey isn't ranked? Doesn't sylveon have the same crippling flaw as chansey, aka being food for shadow tag?
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This is a good point, probably because when in a situation where you are going to use Chansey you can use Blissey to escape tag and therefore Chansey is outclassed. Sylveon isn't really outclassed by anything in this same way so the Shadow Tag weakness is something you have to accept (Defensive Cleric Xern can compete with Sylveon but it is also quite tag weak). There are many mons that get fucked over by Shadow Tag but they are still ranked so long as they aren't outclassed.

A majority of Sylveon right now have Baton Pass anyways.
 
Haunted24 said:
Someone explain please, why is sylveon b+ and chansey isn't ranked? Doesn't sylveon have the same crippling flaw as chansey, aka being food for shadow tag?
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Sylveon gets baton pass but nobody uses it, and it can't really fit it in the moveset. Sylv has a distinctive niche from blissey/chansey as a bulky fairy which lets it to check yveltal better and sponge dragon moves. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment- Sylveon isn't that good and should be moved down.
 
i use baton pass sometimes, cm pass can be really scary, but no protect makes checking stuff like palkia a lot harder (esp in rain). see, my battle vs piex in haruno's tour (can't link cause im on my phone). also dry passing is still p good, not only for avoiding gar but also as a pseudo uturn.

and the difference with chansey is that blissey is usually just better cause it can shed shell.. whereas to sylveon there isnt another option that lets it take on gengar
 
Tomahawk said:
i use baton pass sometimes, cm pass can be really scary, but no protect makes checking stuff like palkia a lot harder (esp in rain). see, my battle vs piex in haruno's tour (can't link cause im on my phone). also dry passing is still p good, not only for avoiding gar but also as a pseudo uturn.

and the difference with chansey is that blissey is usually just better cause it can shed shell.. whereas to sylveon there isnt another option that lets it take on gengar
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Well, I guess sylveon could run shed shell too lol. I think that we've established that sylveon has a distinct niche and generally more viable than chansey is.
 
Steel made some good points but that's not to say that Kyurem-W is far from being usable. While faries eat up Draco spam this gen, Kyurem-W has the raw power and move pool to OHKO stuff like Klefki while Ice Beam really dents more bulky fairy switch-ins. Sure some of these can simply recover off the damage like Fairy-ceus and defensive Xern, but that is what other teammates are for. Again not a fantastic mon, but you can build a solid team around it.
 
Sorry kinda new here but why exactly is blaziken in A+ ranking? All of the other mons in A+and even some in A seem way more viable and common in the metagame than blaziken. I know it's a powerful sweeper but it seems outclassed by others such as arceus and ho-oh
 
Madara20 said:
Sorry kinda new here but why exactly is blaziken in A+ ranking? All of the other mons in A+and even some in A seem way more viable and common in the metagame than blaziken. I know it's a powerful sweeper but it seems outclassed by others such as arceus and ho-oh
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Blaze plays very differently from Ho-oh and any Arceus forum. I would go as far to say it's the best mega other than perhaps Gengar. Blaze is great as Low Kick + Flare Blitz owns so much, in addition to having another slot for coverage or even a move like Swords Dance which makes Blaze stupidly powerful. Even though sun is no longer perma neither is rain. Low Kick also murders some common priority users like Arceus and Kahn which is one of the only ways you are going to hit Blaze first. All around it's just a great sweeper that doesn't necessarily even need to set up since it has speed boost.
 
Thanks, his ranking makes more sense now. I'm surprised he's not S rank with all of those traits though.
 
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Finally hit first place on the ladder. Here is the match that allowed me to hit first place: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uberssuspecttest-152808477

This match pretty much illustrates what I am about to propose.

E-Killer for S rank. Finally.

There is no Pokemon that has been more responsible for my first place ranking than E-Killer. In the match above, it quite literally SINGLE HANDEDLY turns a loss against a good opponent into a win. People prepare for Xerneas, sure, but Xerneas is predictable. This is the E-Killer I run:

Haxosaurus (Arceus) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 202 Atk / 52 SpD / 4 Spe [guaranteed to tank a Geomancy Moonblast if no hazards up]
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

The keys are as follows: You come in on something that allows you to dance once. You dance a second time while your opponent has switched to its wisper. Then you knock it out. Use Recover as much as possible. Stay away from certain Pokemon, sure, but every Pokemon has its weaknesses.

As I've said in the past, this Pokemon has REPEATEDLY won me games against TOP PLAYERS single-handedly. It is clearly worthy of S-Rank. Please take a look at that link that I have posted. It is this particular E-Killer variant in a nutshell. There is no point to using things besides Lum Berry - my +4 EKiller without a Life Orb/Silk Scarf/whatever is stronger than your +2 with one.
 
There is no doubting the extreme threat that E-killer Arceus poses. As the person above me excellently demonstrated, even with a solid answer such as physically defensive Yveltal, E-killer can quickly turn the table with just one SR switching by it.

Normal Arceus is by far the best set up sweeper, what it lack in versatility, it makes up for with utility.
 
Smogoniter said:
Normal Arceus is by far the best set up sweeper
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GeoXern actually isn't necessarily a better setup sweeper than e-killer because it's crippled by things like prio twave and can be revenged by priority moves whereas e-killer can't. Killer also has a recovery move and can hold different items whereas xern is forced to use 1, which means it only ever gets 1 shot at setting up. Killer also has better bulk and the opponent doesn't know what arc form youre using until you send it out. If gengarite gets banned, it's an automatic s-rank, and even now it kind of deserves it IMO.
 
I have extensively used both Extreme Killer Arceus and Geomancy Xerneas, and quite honestly, both have their pros and cons over the other. One of the main thing that stands out is the need to preserve GeoXern for a sweep and the utility that E-killer provides besides sweeping, namely picking off weakened offensive mons such as +2 Blaziken which would otherwise blow right through your defense etc.
 
Uhhhh Mawile. I haven't really used this 'mon extensively but I would think it's around the B/B- rank. It's ridiculously strong and has a great Fairy and Steel STABs, as well as priority in Sucker Punch and access to SD+Knock Off. However, it's terrible speed and special defense makes it very easy to KO and Sucker Punch usually isn't strong enough to effectively revenge kill anything. To be honest, I would use Mega Kanga over this guy if I wanted to break through stuff. However, M-Mawile is capable of acting as a Xerneas check (as long as it's under rain), being able to tank a Moonblast + HP Fire and OHKO back with Iron Head.
 
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"B Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with large offensive or defensive capability. They are designed to serve specific roles for a team and may offer valuable utility. They often need certain amounts of support and/or suffer to a degree from opportunity cost."

I definitely think Mawile has a fair amount of offensive capability. It has enough raw power to break through a lot of stuff, and can (somewhat) bypass it's mediocre speed with Sucker Punch and has an excellent typing. It does offer utility in checking Yveltal, Xerneas, and Mewtwo kind of. That said, it definitely needs support since it lacks recovery and takes up a mega slot, thus suffers from opportunity cost. I think B Rank fits it well.

As for where in the B rank, I definitely don't see it in B+. As for B Rank, if you want to compare it to some of the hard-hitting physical mons like Lucario and Kangaskhan, it doesn't seem to quite measure up- you could argue the utility in checking the aforementioned few mons, but Kangaskhan has Fake Out, which has a lot of utility too. However, looking in B- it seems like a lot of them lack offensive presence, or are something like Kyurem-W, so I mean, I see it ending up in mid B rank.
 
Mawile really can't be compared to Kangaskhan. Kangaskhan is a strong anti-lead with good speed. In contrast, Mawile has excellent attack which is unfortunately not good enough, and is slow as fuck. Mawile have to sacrifice offense for bulk to be even remotely useful. Not even sticky can save offensive Mawile because it's so slow. It's trivially easy to switch into Mawile and force it out, especially with the abundance of bulky grounds and WoW spreaders. Not to mention that it's a terrible xern and yveltal check, which is eclipsed by superior pokemon such as Klefki anyways. You only have to lure mawile in once to render it useless as a geoxern check. Yveltal 3hkos it, so you can easily wear down Mawile lol. C+ is where I think it should go.
 
Mawile belongs in C+ for now, maybe B-. There aren't many people who don't know the positive features of Mega-Mawile due to the OU suspect, but here's a (very) brief just for the sake of reminding everyone: it has relatively good typing, intimidate on the switch before MEvolving, strong Priority, and a huge attack stat after Huge Power. It's typing lets it get around a good bit of threats, but unfortunately for Mawile Ubers isn't as lenient as OU. For one, status is around every corner. Good luck Sucker Punching when you could be getting paralyzed or burned, and good luck Subbing/Swords Dancing when Taunt is on every team. As orch said before me, it's pretty easy to lure, and with Pokemon that can take its hits on just about every team (Groudon, Lando, bla bla bla) it struggles to stay alive. C+ is a good place to start it, but if it turns out to have a legit niche I could see it moving up.
 
Leer said:
Mawile belongs in C+ for now, maybe B-. There aren't many people who don't know the positive features of Mega-Mawile due to the OU suspect, but here's a (very) brief just for the sake of reminding everyone: it has relatively good typing, intimidate on the switch before MEvolving, strong Priority, and a huge attack stat after Huge Power. It's typing lets it get around a good bit of threats, but unfortunately for Mawile Ubers isn't as lenient as OU. For one, status is around every corner. Good luck Sucker Punching when you could be getting paralyzed or burned, and good luck Subbing/Swords Dancing when Taunt is on every team. As orch said before me, it's pretty easy to lure, and with Pokemon that can take its hits on just about every team (Groudon, Lando, bla bla bla) it struggles to stay alive. C+ is a good place to start it, but if it turns out to have a legit niche I could see it moving up.
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Checking Yveltal, Xerneas without hp fire, Xerneas with hp fire with common spdef orge support, and checking Mewtwo as well as a bunch of other stuff with a strong sucker punch. If it gets a chance to set up an SD it can sweep offensive teams (those that lack burn support) with relative ease.

Mega Mawile for B Rank
 
DoubleOD said:
Finally hit first place on the ladder. Here is the match that allowed me to hit first place: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uberssuspecttest-152808477

This match pretty much illustrates what I am about to propose.

E-Killer for S rank. Finally.

There is no Pokemon that has been more responsible for my first place ranking than E-Killer. In the match above, it quite literally SINGLE HANDEDLY turns a loss against a good opponent into a win. People prepare for Xerneas, sure, but Xerneas is predictable. This is the E-Killer I run:

Haxosaurus (Arceus) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 202 Atk / 52 SpD / 4 Spe [guaranteed to tank a Geomancy Moonblast if no hazards up]
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

The keys are as follows: You come in on something that allows you to dance once. You dance a second time while your opponent has switched to its wisper. Then you knock it out. Use Recover as much as possible. Stay away from certain Pokemon, sure, but every Pokemon has its weaknesses.

As I've said in the past, this Pokemon has REPEATEDLY won me games against TOP PLAYERS single-handedly. It is clearly worthy of S-Rank. Please take a look at that link that I have posted. It is this particular E-Killer variant in a nutshell. There is no point to using things besides Lum Berry - my +4 EKiller without a Life Orb/Silk Scarf/whatever is stronger than your +2 with one.
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Easily checked by megagar, even when its not evolved already. Fire blast is also much better to hit relevant checks such as scizor, ferro, etc. The max speed jolly life orb fire blast set is superior, such a set should only be used post-gar. Typical example of a sub-optimal ladder set. Since you already lose to mega gengar, it should also run shadow force, and not shadow claw. This way arceus ghost doesnt still burn you because you can actually kill it in one hit.

+2 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Arceus-Ghost: 270-318 (60.9 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Force vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Arceus-Ghost: 460-542 (103.8 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Okay so two small additions:

Added Mawile to C+ Rank - Yeah it can check Xerneas/Yveltal but it struggles a bit to do so since Xerneas can take it down with a little prior damage or sun while Yveltal 3HKOes with Dark Pulse, and switching directly in on either as base Mawile is lolzy. It's not bad but it does require a lot of support and it has too many checks (Grounds, Arceus with Wisp, Fires) to warrant putting it higher than C+ imo.

Added Diancie to C+ Rank - Diancie has a cool niche as an SR setter than can check birds (Ho-Oh, Rayquaza, Yveltal) very well. It does face competition with Tyranitar, though Diancie's light weight + lack of Fighting weakness makes it a decent non-HJK Blaziken check as well. It can also run a pretty decent Trick Room set. It does have a lot of weaknesses and requires a lot of support but it has its uses.

I also want to make a few changes to be discussed:

Forretress B -> C+: Forretress is very difficult to justify over Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Klefki for Spikes despite getting Rapid Spin, and its inability to really wall anything means it only really gets to spin against defensive/balance teams that are more likely to carry Ghost-types. It retains a decent niche as one of the few viable Toxic Spikers/Spinners but its nowhere near good enough to be in B rank imo.

Gastrodon C- -> C: Gastrodon's ability to completely shut down Kyogre is invaluable in a metagame where few real checks to the whale exist. It also benefits a lot from greatly decreased usage of Grass-types and the ability to check more prevalent threats such as most CM Arcs (once statused) and Low Kick Blaziken. Shadow Tag Pokemon also have a tough time trapping it as Mega Gengar struggles against Gastro's good special bulk while Gothitelle has trouble setting up with Clear Smog and Toxic at Gastro's disposal. It's still a niche mon but its better than it used to be.
 
Scizor should probably move down to B/B- Rank. 95% of the things its suppose to counter have started running Fire moves to defeat it (HP Fire Xerneas, HP Fire Gengar, Fire Blast Arceus, etc.) making it far less effective in the current meta. I also believe that Genesect should be lowered, although i'm not sure what rank it should drop to.
 
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