Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking

[gvmgvm40]

@Huge Power Pikachu: No. It has 35/30/40 defenses and 90 base speed, which is frankly horrible. Without Scarf it's outsped and revenge-killed by pretty much everything, and without Light Ball it just doesn't hit hard enough. With that speed, those defenses and Volt Tackle recoil it won't do real damage to any well-built team.

Not to mention it has a shitty movepool. Its only real physical options are Volt Tackle, Brick Break, Iron Tail, Return, Quick Attack and Fake Out. Well, uh, Focus Punch, Dig, Fling, Flail and Reversal too, if you feel adventurous. It can't even run Fly or Extremespeed with Volt Tackle because those are event moves. Want to run Extremespeed? The next best Electric move, Wild Charge, hits about %25 less than Volt Tackle and still has recoil.

It'd be basically a shittier Darmanitan, except Darmanitan hits harder under sun and can run Scarf to fix its speed and is naturally faster and is walled by less and has the bulk to take an attack here and there and doesn't get OHKO'd by LO Scizor's Bullet Punch or Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew in sun: 422-499 (104.45 - 123.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Huge Power Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew: 367-433 (90.84 - 107.17%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO

 

[THE ENEMY]

While I think the idea of a hugepower Pikachu is a little ridiculous, I do like the idea of theorymonning to try and make the the most famous, most marketed, and most visible pokemon actually viable in the competitive community. It just seems a shame that Pokemon's poster boy is just about useless in any metagame, let alone OU.

Considering what Pikachu means to Pokemon, I think we could all take a little extra license with the theories here. So, in an attempt to make Pikachu viable, here's an interesting idea:

Suppose Light Ball itself had an upgrade, or they made a different item which was only for Pikachu. Maybe an item such as this might double MORE than just Pikachu's special attack. What about Att, Sp Att, and Speed all together? Maybe Sp Att, def, and Speed? Maybe all his stats? Maybe just a combination of 2?

Now, without getting too carried away, I think an item such as this would immediately make Pikachu very viable.

 

[ogasian]

I don't think you can make Pikachu viable unless you give him some ridiculous shit like Wonder Gaurd. Pikachu just has too many problems. So I think Pikachu should be ditched. :( Let's talk about this instead: What if Starmie got Regenerator.

Flavor Wise: It's a starfish. Starfish can grow back limbs. Yes?
Competetively, this would be very cool. Natural Cure is a great ability, but Regenerator would be a step up. Perhaps defensive sets would forgo Recover for a another move. LO sets become a thousand times more viable. In particular, I would like to try out this set:

Starmie@Life Orb
Regenerator
252 speed/252 spattck/4 hp (I suck at ev's)
Modest/Timid

Hydro Pump
Rapid Spin/Psyshock
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam

or this set:
Starmie@Expert Belt/Life Orb
Regenerator
252 spd/252 sattck/4 hp
Modest/timid

Gravity
Blizzard
Thunder
Hydro Pump

Regenerator would allow it to set up Gravity multiple times a match.

 

[gvmgvm40]

While I think the idea of a hugepower Pikachu is a little ridiculous, I do like the idea of theorymonning to try and make the the most famous, most marketed, and most visible pokemon actually viable in the competitive community. It just seems a shame that Pokemon's poster boy is just about useless in any metagame, let alone OU.

Considering what Pikachu means to Pokemon, I think we could all take a little extra license with the theories here. So, in an attempt to make Pikachu viable, here's an interesting idea:

Suppose Light Ball itself had an upgrade, or they made a different item which was only for Pikachu. Maybe an item such as this might double MORE than just Pikachu's special attack. What about Att, Sp Att, and Speed all together? Maybe Sp Att, def, and Speed? Maybe all his stats? Maybe just a combination of 2?

Now, without getting too carried away, I think an item such as this would immediately make Pikachu very viable.

An item that doubles all of Pikachu's stats would definitely be broken, just saying. Hell, it'd be a top Uber Pokemon. If I'm looking at things right, a completely uninvested Pikachu with a neutral nature would have the equivalent of 140/128/78/118/98/198, adding up to a base stat total of 760. Keep in mind that on top of this, every 4 EVs would be the equivalent of 2 stat points, not one. That's... a crazy amount of versatility, man.

This means with 252 SpA/252 Atk Adamant, Pikachu could have 458 Attack, 398 SpAtk and 432 Speed, while retaining greater bulk than Vaporeon. Of course, it could also invest in only one offensive stat and be the greatest bulky attacker ever. Or it could choose to go fully defensive and rival Giratina itself in bulk. Hell, it would be a great supporter with that speed and Volt Switch, Wish, Light Screen and Encore.

 

[ogasian]

An item that doubles all of Pikachu's stats would definitely be broken, just saying. Hell, it'd be a top Uber Pokemon. If I'm looking at things right, a completely uninvested Pikachu with a neutral nature would have the equivalent of 140/128/78/118/98/198, adding up to a base stat total of 760. Keep in mind that on top of this, every 4 EVs would be the equivalent of 2 stat points, not one. That's... a crazy amount of versatility, man.

This means with 252 SpA/252 Atk Adamant, Pikachu could have 458 Attack, 398 SpAtk and 432 Speed, while retaining greater bulk than Vaporeon. Of course, it could also invest in only one offensive stat and be the greatest bulky attacker ever. Or it could choose to go fully defensive and rival Giratina itself in bulk. Hell, it would be a great supporter with that speed and Volt Switch, Wish, Light Screen and Encore.

Arceus, you have been DETHRONED!

 

[casey90]

Maybe this has been brought up before (it would make sense) but What if Kyurem-N got Snow Warning as a dream world ability?

Flavorwise this makes perfect sense, anyone disputing that is trolling.

I do however think this would make hail more viable as a whole, in addition to kyurem itself. The additions to Kyurem itself would be noteworthy, namely the upgrade of Blizzard over Ice Beam, which sports about 26% more power, and the consistent hail chip damage against checks/counters. Also worth noting that Kyurem + Tentacruel would be nasty, as tentacruel can spin to preserve kyurem's longetivity and provide toxic spikes to aid in stalling out opponents with a deadly Sub-Roost set.

I think this would also be an excellent upgrade for teams not looking to be weather focused. By that I mean for teams that want something to combat Sun and Rain without putting extra constraints on team building. I'd see Kyurem like tyranitar in this respect, providing general utility in addition to weather control.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Huge Power Pikachu-- while this would be an absolute CANNON, as others have metioned, Pikachu is too frail and too slow to do all that much damage. It doesn't even have any useful resistances. It literally has zero survivability. ExtremeSpeed helps a LOT-- but probably not enough. It might be an interesting alternative to Lucario that could wreck unprepared teams.

Regenerator Starmie-- YES. Flavor wise, strategy wise-- great theorymon. This thing would be awesome. LO 3 Attacks + Rapid Spin or GTFO.



So I have another Theorymon to bring to the table.

What if Heracross was built to be a physical tank?

I mean, it's a massive beatle-- am I the only one wierded out by the fact that it's built with more Special bulk? I mean why? It's a gigantic hercules beetle.

I mean, of course you see these ARMORED brawlers throwing each other around and think-- oh yeah, "Specially Bulky". They throw each other around with the greatest tork/strength per weight of anything in the entire animal kingdom-- and usually even the loser walks away without a scratch. And yet, Heracross has the physical bulk comparable to Electross or Aerodactyle. wtf?

On the other hand, Heracross has 80 / 95 Special bulk-- which is actually pretty impressive. But to what ends? I guess it makes it easier for Heracross to take a Scald, but Heracross has no useful Special-oriented resistances. On top of that, it's got that crippling weakness to Psychic-- a flaw that makes it a much inferior psychic hunter to Scizor, despite having a lot more Special bulk. But what if Heracross were physically inclined instead?


Proposition:

Current Base Stats: 80 / 125 / 75 / 40 / 95 / 85 BST: 500
Proposed Base Stats: 80 / 125 / 115 / 40 / 75 / 85 BST: 520
Added Ability: Intimidate (Hey why not? MASSIVE HERCULES BEETLE)
Added Move: Roost ("Wing Rest" in Japanese-- it has wings, so why not? If Dodrio can get it, this should get it too)

So I've proposed a lot of things together, completely revamping Heracross into a massive physical Tank. Now what would this accomplish strategically? Well, let's take a look at Heracross's resistances:

Heracross resists: Ground (.5), Fighting (.5), Dark (.5)[Tyranitar], Grass (.5)[Breloom], Bug (.5) [Scizor]
Heracross is also neutral to: Rock, Steel, Dragon

So Heracross has some very boss resistances. With the proposed defensive spread, it would switch better into Terakion than Landorus-T. It can be said to flat-out counter Terakion, Mamoswine, Breloom (after spore), Toxicroak, Scizor, Conkledurr, and have tremendously advantageous match-ups against several other OU Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Donphan. Bug / Fighting is a pretty damn amazing physical defensive type.


However, Heracross would still have some major problems as a defensive Pokemon, if you compare it to Landorus-T, Skarmory, Hippowdon, etc. The biggest and most glaring weakness is a complete lack of support move options. Heracross has an astounding lack of support movepool. It basically has only boosting moves and attacks. Its entire support movepool consists of: Toxic, Swagger (lol), Rain Dance, and Sunny Day.

:S

On top of this, it lacks U-turn, so it can't play momentum games like Lando-T, and while it resists Ground-type attacks, it is taking damage from Spikes. Also unlike Lando-T, it has "only" 125 ATK, meaning it could potetially end up weaker if also splitting EVs to HP and DEF.

Heracross could be a major defensive asset, but it's still very one-dimensional in terms of strategy-- attack, attack, and attack-- that's pretty much all it has in its repetoire.

Do you think Heracross would rise to OU? Or would it be doomed to a similar fate to Tangrowth (good defensive mon that doesn't make OU)? Would an all out-physical tank be popular? Or would Heracross just resort to using its physical bulk to sweep with Moxie or Guts?

 

[Spinda]

I would probably use the standard band set but intimidate over guts and a bulkier spread, something like this.

Heracross @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Atk / 40 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Sleep Talk

The EVs allow it to emergency counter even band terrakion locked into stone edge, never being 2HKO'd by it after rocks, Sleep Talk allows it to switch into breloom without any worries, the choice between Stone Edge and EQ is whether you want to actually hit flying types like zapdos, or if you want to make a good switchin to Toxicroak.
Could the day come where we see hp flying terrakion? Maybe Aerial Ace?

 

[Lucalibur]

Hmm, while physically bulky Heracross makes a lot of sense flavor wise(I never quite got the lack of high defense myself), I can't see it being used for more than countering some very specific Pokemon. That would be mostly because of the fact that with the base stats spread mentioned, he simply doesn't know what he wants to be. He looks like a physical tank, but then he has speed which you might want to boost to outspeed certain threats, but then you lose bulky which is suppose to be the whole point of him, and then there is the fact that while his base attack is by no means low, he needs to invest in it to do anything significant due to his lack of support movepool forcing him to be very single minded and predictable. The lowered special defense doesn't help either, although it only really helped taking random surfs and scalds by the end of the day.

That being said, I don't think he would be 'useless'. In fact, the stats suggested, while resulting in him suffering from 'what is my role' syndrome, also give him a bit of diversity in possible sets, with the only problem being that sometimes, an individual set might be outclassed by another Pokemon(Can't see any reason to run CS Heracross in OU with Terrakion running around doing that job better, for example). I think he would fulfill a niche or two, and while definitely not dominating, he would be useful for teams that DO need what he can offer.

 

[ErraticMagic]

What about giving Heracross Circle Throw as well so it can phaze? It makes perfect sense seeing how Hercules Beetles fight each other.

 

[ogasian]

<quote>(Can't see any reason to run CS Heracross in OU with Terrakion running around doing that job better, for example).<quote>

Is this how you do one line quotes? Anyway, I don't quite agree with this statement. Heracross has two much better abilities, Guts and Moxie, and has a much better typing and now the stats to back it up. With Guts, stuff like Jellicent would be afraid to status it, since then Heracross could potentially power through it with Megahorn. Moxie sets would be pretty devastating, essentially a free Dragon Dance after one kill. (factoring CS) But the only thing holding Cross back is low bas speed, so I would fit this badass bug into more of a tank role.

Heracross@Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
252 hp/252 attack/4 defense (lol i suck at ev spreads)
Adamant

Substitute
Focus Punch
Stone Edge
Roost

Basically set up on choice locked resisted moves, especially fighting ones. You can also set up on walls and stuff. You still outspeed Defensive Heatran, but you can run Jolly max to out speed offensive ones. Focus Punch will do a fuck ton to everything, even resists. It's kind of like Breloom, except it uses its newfound bulk and Intimidate to set up, instead of Spore.

 

[Lucalibur]

I agree that Heracross's abilities are definitely much better than Terrakion's, but I can't quite agree on him having a better typing. Sure, he is not weak to fighting or steel(and even resists the former), but Fighting\Rock provides amazing STAB coverage for Terrakion that Heracross simply cannot boast about on the same level. Yes, he would definitely switch into quite a few things better, but on a choice set I would take the higher base attack and speed and overall better STABs Terrakion has over what Heracross offers almost any day.

That being said, Heracross definitely runs defensive\tank\bulky sets much better in general, specially with reliable recovery in the form of roost, key resists, and the ability to sub\focus punch that Terrakion would kill for(although it makes no sense design wise), specially with Stone Edge being such a reliable secondary STAB for when focus punch is not available(This is something Heracross would probably kill for as well).

I would bring up Terrakion learning focus punch as a possible theorymon, but it really makes no sense, although he would be able to use a subpunch set quite effectively.

 

[THE ENEMY]

An item that doubles all of Pikachu's stats would definitely be broken, just saying. Hell, it'd be a top Uber Pokemon. If I'm looking at things right, a completely uninvested Pikachu with a neutral nature would have the equivalent of 140/128/78/118/98/198, adding up to a base stat total of 760. Keep in mind that on top of this, every 4 EVs would be the equivalent of 2 stat points, not one. That's... a crazy amount of versatility, man.

This means with 252 SpA/252 Atk Adamant, Pikachu could have 458 Attack, 398 SpAtk and 432 Speed, while retaining greater bulk than Vaporeon. Of course, it could also invest in only one offensive stat and be the greatest bulky attacker ever. Or it could choose to go fully defensive and rival Giratina itself in bulk. Hell, it would be a great supporter with that speed and Volt Switch, Wish, Light Screen and Encore.

Well, i was only spitballing.

To be honest, I'm personally leaning more towards an upgraded lightball which boosts 2 stats....

The sad part is that even that might not be enough to make Pikachu viable. Hence why i might have gotten carried away

 

[Spinda]

Well, i was only spitballing.

To be honest, I'm personally leaning more towards an upgraded lightball which boosts 2 stats....

The sad part is that even that might not be enough to make Pikachu viable. Hence why i might have gotten carried away

It already boosts 2 stats :o, SpA and Attack

 

[THE ENEMY]

It already boosts 2 stats :eek:, SpA and Attack

I meant speed.....i'll be clearer next time.

I was trying to leave the door open for multiple possibilities

 

[vyomov]

What if Cobalion got an ability called Ancient Fighter which gave it an immunity to Fighting-type attacks AS WELL AS the effects of justified?

Makes sense flavor-wise, since Cobalion looks the oldest of the trio. This would probably make Cobalion OU, as the immunity to fighting-type attacks as well as the effects of Justified make it a formidable bulky attacker in the current tier with only weaknesses to ground and fire types which is covered by Latias who in return appreciates Cobalion taking on the dark-types it hates.

Cobalion would also be THE BEST counter to Terrakion as none of Terrakion's moves on the CB or CS set can touch Cobalion while Cobalion OHKOes in return:
28 Atk Expert Belt Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 319-377 (98.76 - 116.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Spinda]

That's just OP

 

[Lucalibur]

Perhaps, BUT what if the ability only made it neutral to Fighting attacks instead?

 

[EJ190]

What pikachu really needs to be ou is moar speed. Sooo...
What if pikachu(& raichu) had speed boost?
pikachu@light ball
speed boost
modest 252satk 252speed
thunder
surf
grass knot/hp ice/hp fire
protect
Protect & boost ur speed and hit with the best move. Grassknot for water/ground mons, hp ice for dragons & hp fire for ferrothorn. Needs Rain support
Raichu@air balloon
speed boost
modest 252satk 252speed
tbolt
hp ice
encore/focus blast
nasty plot.
Switch into a ground or non-damaging status move & encore it. Boost with np then sweep. If u feel brave enough then encore can be dropped for focus blast.
Would speedboost make pikachu(& raichu) ou viable? Both would hate priority moves though....

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Please drop Pikachu. Unless it has a serious change in stats (more defense, more speed, etc), it will never be viable in OU. And even if it does get those stat changes it'd still be outclassed by other Electric types like Thundurus-T and Jolteon. Speed Boost would not make it viable, because it's still super weak to priority with those piss weak defences.

Edit: Just done some research, Pikachu can't even learn Surf...

 

[Chou Toshio]

I would also appreciate it if we could move away from Pikachu. Let's try not to give the same Pokemon more than 3 or 4 theory's within the span of a few pages... especially for something as weak and unviable as Pikachu; there's no point in making a theorymon that's basically re-making the whole Pokemon.

Also, vyomov, that flavor explanation for "ancient fighter" was kind of... mmm... first of all, "looks the oldest" is just no justification in terms of flavor (especially when that's a completely subjective opinion). Second, saying it "make sense" based on "flavor" is strange when you're completely making up an ability.

For instance...

"I think Gyarados should get an ability called 'Storm Dragon' that makes it immune to electricity. This makes sense because it looks like a Chinese Dragon that would be in the skies."

I could make up any ability name I wanted and it would "make sense" if I'm making it up for the Pokemon in question... That doesn't make it a good theorymon.

 

[Mikasa]

Maybe this has been brought up before (it would make sense) but What if Kyurem-N got Snow Warning as a dream world ability?

Flavorwise this makes perfect sense, anyone disputing that is trolling.

I do however think this would make hail more viable as a whole, in addition to kyurem itself. The additions to Kyurem itself would be noteworthy, namely the upgrade of Blizzard over Ice Beam, which sports about 26% more power, and the consistent hail chip damage against checks/counters. Also worth noting that Kyurem + Tentacruel would be nasty, as tentacruel can spin to preserve kyurem's longetivity and provide toxic spikes to aid in stalling out opponents with a deadly Sub-Roost set.

I think this would also be an excellent upgrade for teams not looking to be weather focused. By that I mean for teams that want something to combat Sun and Rain without putting extra constraints on team building. I'd see Kyurem like tyranitar in this respect, providing general utility in addition to weather control.

I don't get why this one was ignored, IMO it's a very interesting theorymon.
As a legendary monster Kyurem-N really needs to be better and this would be exactly what he needs to shine and to also bring Hail as a top weather into OU, Kyurem would be one of the best weather starters there is, as he can potentially beat every other weather starter with his good movepool composed of gems like Blizzard (bye hippo), earth power (Ninewho?), Focus Blast (for Ttar), Draco Meter and Roost (choice specs draco meteor would destroy politoed), his drawback would be the annoying SR weakness, but 130/130/95 are incredible offensive stats that he could make full use with either a choice item or with his infamous SubRoost set.

However I think he would be more amazing on weatherless teams who need weather control, rather than teams who look to abuse hail because of how defensively crappy the ice type is, maybe you could use him with one non-ice blizzard abuser (like Starmie or Nidoking) and the rest of the team is a regular weatherless team who enjoy not having to face Sun Venusaur, Rain Keldeo or even Sand Stoutland.

EDIT: Sorry didn't saw that this was discussed before, but after reading the old OP I realised why people ignored it this time.

 

[JGSabino]

However I think he would be more amazing on weatherless teams who need weather control, rather than teams who look to abuse hail because of how defensively crappy the ice type is, maybe you could use him with one non-ice blizzard abuser (like Starmie or Nidoking) and the rest of the team is a regular weatherless team who enjoy not having to face Sun Venusaur, Rain Keldeo or even Sand Stoutland.

Yeah, I think so too. However, that's pretty much Hail's only function in OU already (lol Walrein).

I could see Snow Warning Kyurem finally getting a spot in Offensive teams, where it's now outclassed by Latios and, to some extent, Kyurem-B and Hydreigon.

 

[Spuun]

Ive been lurking around this thread, and Ive been thinking. What if Bisharp got Moxie?

This would follow the trend of the many Dark Types that already get the ability. Also, flavorwise, the Japanese name for the ability translates to Overconfident. Bisharp's bw2 pokedex entry says "This pitiless Pokémon commands a group of Pawniard to hound prey into immobility. It then moves in to finish the prey off." Not to mention its sprite is pretty cold, and uncaring.

Not only would it make sub sd a lot better, but it would function as a powerful revenge killer even without those moves. You dont have to use a turn setting up a swords dance now. It would be like Honchkrow, but with a much appreciated resistance to rocks. Bisharp has a ton of resistances and respectable bulk bar hp, giving it a good chance to switch in to resisted attacks. It also has access to pursuit to hit Lati@s and various others as they try to switch out, giving a free moxie.

The main problem I see, even with Moxie, is that base 70 speed. This is sort of mitigated with Sucker Punch coming off of 125 base atk; after killing off a pokemon and getting a free +1, future Sucker Punches would be powerful. Bisharp also has access to Rock Polish, which would be sort of interesting with the moxie boosts. I believe it would function as a powerful revenge killer/late game sweeper.

After one moxie boost, Bisharp can do some serious damage:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Tyranitar: 124.25 - 146.78%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Kyurem-B: 112.33 - 132.37%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 45.98 - 54.01%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 57.45 - 68.25%
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 41.46 - 49.59%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 61.19 - 72.39%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 134.28 - 158.7%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Scizor: 64.72 - 76.67%
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 31.49 - 37.3%

To place a few~ (No, not all of these pokemon should be switching in, I know. But the bulk of them compared to the power of the attack is swell)

 

[Chou Toshio]

I don't get why this one was ignored, IMO it's a very interesting theorymon.
As a legendary monster Kyurem-N really needs to be better and this would be exactly what he needs to shine and to also bring Hail as a top weather into OU, Kyurem would be one of the best weather starters there is, as he can potentially beat every other weather starter with his good movepool composed of gems like Blizzard (bye hippo), earth power (Ninewho?), Focus Blast (for Ttar), Draco Meter and Roost (choice specs draco meteor would destroy politoed), his drawback would be the annoying SR weakness, but 130/130/95 are incredible offensive stats that he could make full use with either a choice item or with his infamous SubRoost set.

However I think he would be more amazing on weatherless teams who need weather control, rather than teams who look to abuse hail because of how defensively crappy the ice type is, maybe you could use him with one non-ice blizzard abuser (like Starmie or Nidoking) and the rest of the team is a regular weatherless team who enjoy not having to face Sun Venusaur, Rain Keldeo or even Sand Stoutland.

EDIT: Sorry didn't saw that this was discussed before, but after reading the old OP I realised why people ignored it this time.

Well, if you look in the rules it says you're free to bring up any old Theorymon-- there's no problem in re-visiting it, since it might spark new discussion. In fact, Snow Warning Kyurem is one I want to put up for the next round of testing.