This Salamence slaughters everything

[aamto]

It only works against Cressy without Twave, and is overall not the most amazing idea.

Cressy is indeed one of the best switch ins, but it still takes roughly 80ish-90ish% from a Fire Blast followed by a Draco Meteor, or a Dragon Rush/Crunch followed by a Draco Meteor or vice versa... it only needs to have taken a bit of previous damage for it to go down. And apparently according to Hipno Cressy is really easy to damage. *shrugs*

Also, you don't need to predict that much with this guy -- most of the time you'll just start with Draco Meteor, since that move followed by Brick Break/Crunch/Dragon Rush/Fire Blast will pretty much everything except Blissey, Cresselia, Bronzong, Heatran, and Jirachi, and they can be taken out either with prediction, or damaging them slightly first, seeing as how Draco Meteor followed by X does like 80% to all of these guys anyways...

The problem is that once your opponent sees Life Orb damage, they'll know its Mixmence (or should know). It's a good bet they won't keep in Jirachi or Blissey or whomever to take the following hit -- they'll switch to something to soak up the predictable Fire Blast or physical move. That being said, if you have good prediction skills you can slaughter them.

 

[Pookaveli]

I'm not sure on this, but wouldn't Tentacruel be a decent counter to this set? With the recommended HP EVs (204) for Tentacruel, it can endure any attack thrown at it; plus, with enough Speed and Special Attack EVs, it can OHKO Salamence with Ice Beam before Sally can attack again.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Knock Off/Rapid Spin
move 4: Confuse Ray/Toxic Spikes/Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/Safeguard
item: Leftovers

ability: Liquid Ooze
nature: Timid
evs: 204 HP / 148 Spd / 156 SpAtk

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Supporting Tentacruel. Thanks to his high Special Defense and Water typing, he can just shrug off Ice Beams and Surfs, so he should have a few opportunities to get in a do his thing.</p>

<p>EVs allow Tentacruel to survive a Draco Meteor, out run Salamence and KO him with Ice Beam.</p>

With the given Nature/EVs on Salamence...

Crunch does 43.47% - 50.85%.
Brick Break does 20.45% - 23.86%.
Fire Blast does 18.47% - 21.88%.
Draco Meteor does 65.06% - 76.42%.

If Tentacruel switches in on a Brick Break or Fire Blast, (assuming no other damage) it can switch in on a Draco Meteor later and still respond with an Ice Beam KO. With Leftovers/Black Sludge recovery (once the turn taking the hit, then next turn when Salamence switches out to a counter), there's even a slight chance you can endure a Crunch and Draco Meteor.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though. I just like using Tentacruel. :)

 

[Forsety]

Mantine completely lol's at this set too, Tentacruel being able to beat it is nothing particularly major.

Tentacruel does counter alot of things traditionally hard to slow with its dual typing and decent stats so its nothing particularly new.

The fact Tentacruel can equal Mence in speed anyway and easily take any of its moves even resisting at least two and Ice Beam the hell out of it makes that obvious.

There is a reason Tentacruel dominates in UU.

 

[Mr.E]

Cresselia isn't easy to damage, as it is quite the tank, it just doesn't have reliable HP recovery meaning it's easy to wear down. But you better just look for the kill, as you're just going to get frozen or CH if you try to stall out its Ice Beams with Roost.

Steel-types are a problem, pretty much the only big problem to any Meteor-using set on any Dragon. Fire Blasting a Bronzong or Jirachi after they absorb a Meteor isn't going to do crap, Life Orb or not. Jirachi can Wish and Bronzong is going to lay a hurting on you with Gyro Ball or HP Ice. Just switch. And Heatran doesn't pack recovery, Hip, but it has really good defenses and doesn't mind walling most any Meteor-based Salamence to kingdom come.

Tentacruel is a good UU pokémon and its typing and stats give it a decent opportunity to perform in a standard environment. Mantine blows.

 

[Aero]

When I meant Cresselia was easy to damage, I meant easy to wear down. And I also agree with you that Roosting against Cresselia's Ice Beam is not a good idea.

Jirachi will die if it uses Wish against Salamence, though -- it will definitely die to a Draco Meteor and two consecutive half strength Fire Blasts. Jirachi isn't doing anything to this Salamence.

- Jirachi switches in
- Salamence uses Draco Meteor: 50ish%
- Salamence uses Fire Blast: 30ish%
- Jirachi uses Wish
- Salamence uses Fire Blast: 30ish%
- Jirachi dies
- Wish activates

I agree that Bronzong is definitely a problem. That said, it still has a hard time with Draco Meteor followed by a weak Fire Blast -- it will take 60ish% total, so it will need to be pretty healthy, and Bronzong's lack of a reliable recovery move is a problem for this. Not to mention it risks getting hit by a Fire Blast right from the start...

 

[Easton]

Aren't standard Jirachi's EVed to about 271 Speed to outspeed Choice Band Heracross and all DD Mence? If then, Jirachi will survive and the Wish will still activate.

 

[Aero]

Against the standard -- Impish, 240HP/56Atk/76Def/136Spd...

Draco Meteor - 36.41% - 42.89%
weakened Fire Blast - 42.39% - 49.88%

Jirachi isn't going to survive Draco Meteor + weak Fire Blast + another weak Fire Blast before Jirachi gets Wish healing.

 

[Jibaku]

Aren't standard Jirachi's EVed to about 271 Speed to outspeed Choice Band Heracross and all DD Mence? If then, Jirachi will survive and the Wish will still activate.

don't forget the possibility of getting flinched by Zen Headbutt.

But anyways, this set already exists and it is very deadly, but it really requires Wish support to work at full extent. Unlike Garchomp, however, this thing is not Sandstorm friendly and is weak to Stealth Rock (although immunity to Spikes and having useful resistances/EQ immunity and Intimidate compensates this in a way). Also the effectiveness of this set depends on the usage of Cresselia, which is increasing btw just because Chain Chomp is invented and everyone's using "GyaraVire".

Prediction is key to using this guy. I don't need to explain it since people have done so (and btw this set already exists and SePh used it quite a while ago).

Jirachi case:
Assuming Jirachi has 271 speed (some people might opt for this due to the fact a lot of stuff runs at 270)

Jirachi switches in Meteor, takes damage
Jirachi Wishes
Mence Fire Blasts
Jirachi does something not called Ice Punch
Mence Fire Blast

Jirachi's dead.
Wish failed.

However, let's look at this
The chances of Jirachi flinching: 36% (90% acc Zen Headbutt)
The chances of Salamence successfully hitting 3x (Draco, Fire Blast, Fire Blast): 65%.

If my math is correct, 65 x 64% = 41.6% chance of successfully killing Jirachi.

Cresselia still counters this btw

 

[FBABY]

what the hell?

your gonna rely on misses and flinches to counter a pokemon?

 

[Havak]

No, he's just making a point. It's going to miss eventually, and it might cost you greatly, It is worth the risk though, but he was clearly just pointing out the luck factor of Pokémon. ._.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Well.. Your maths is a bit out as Salamence (or Jirachi too) could CH..

Also 271 just happens to be the exact speed that I run with this dude.

About Cresselia, if you hit twice (with Dracometeor then Dragon Rush) you have a 77% chance of killing if you have sandstream and stealth rock. A 52% chance of killing Cresselia if it switches in! Fortunately if you miss with your first attack or do low damage you can see that and switch. I havent done any other calculations because tbh, nothing has split defenses anywhere near as good as Cresselia..

[Edit] - these calculations are for Cresselia with Max HP and Def and no Special Defense EVs.

Also I cant find where I did it, but I calculated for Fireblast then Dracometeor too, which is even better with those EVs on Cresselia..

[Edit] - Yeah so my point is, in the general case you probably should start out with either Dragon Rush or Fireblast.. Save Dracometeor for after you have already successfully hit with the lower accuracy moves..

Also those calculations on Cresselia have max special attack, so I think maybe like 244 speed or something..

Have a nice day.

 

[TempestJG]

Okay, you use one draco meteor, then they switch into swampert, then what? I doubt that you can ohko a swampert after your sp atk is lowered from the draco meteor, in fact I am 80% sure that you cant.

how is this different from the SpecsMence version?

 

[Jibaku]

Well.. Your maths is a bit out as Salamence (or Jirachi too) could CH..

That would be around 50/50 (If Mence runs Rash and Jirachi has ZH), if you also calc Jirachi being burned.

 

[Tinnacious]

how is this different from the SpecsMence version?

Well lets see. Consider how not even Blissey can really safely switch in on this set, consider how it can still attack on both spectrum, consider how it doesn't really have to run after attacking, consider how it's a variation of MixMence and not Specsmence. I'd say it's pretty different.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Well lets see. Consider how not even Blissey can really safely switch in on this set, consider how it can still attack on both spectrum, consider how it doesn't really have to run after attacking, consider how it's a variation of MixMence and not Specsmence. I'd say it's pretty different.

Read the quote in that post. The way in which he meant it was that pretty much every -2 SpAtk Salamence is going to have to switch out in the face of Swampert, which is true.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Not when you have Dragon Rush! OR even Dragon Claw.. Or infact Specs Mence can finish Pert off with attack dropped Dracometeor..

Have a nice day.

 

[DEL337ED]

I'm really liking this thing now, after some play-testing. Intimidate wards off attackers, then with prediction it decimates walls. The speed decent enough to get by I guess.

Out of curiosity, if I made one of these on the DS via breeding, would people be interested?

 

[matg1002]

There seems to be a sudden surge of mixed dragon sets. For the most part they're fine as long as you have appropriate type coverage. Run the flavor you want, customize as your team needs.

QFE.

The set is nice and all, but the fact that Salamence takes 25% from Stealth Rock each time it switches in, 6% each turn if Sandstorm is up and 10% from Life Orb each time it attacks is too much of a turn off for me. Seriously, not even Wish support can help it out when your taking that much damage. Then again, I never was much of a fan for Life Orb on anything. Maybe Expert Belt could work?

And yeah, quite a few Pokemon can be "wallbreakers" (Garchomp, Infernape, Electivire, etc).

If its purpose is to wreck walls then it doesn't have to worry about staying in long, making the residual damage fine in my book. It's not a sweeper.

 

[choop]

I like dragon claw/draco meteor/flamethrower/earthquake@ life orb. 252 attack 252 special attack +spatk-spdef. This things draco meteor is nearly as poweful as cspecs mence and dragon claw finishes off anything that switches in.

 

[gengod]

I like dragon claw/draco meteor/flamethrower/earthquake@ life orb. 252 attack 252 special attack +spatk-spdef. This things draco meteor is nearly as poweful as cspecs mence and dragon claw finishes off anything that switches in.

Provided its faster with a measly 236 speed

 

[Mr.E]

Jirachi's dead.
Wish failed.

Actually, Wish just healed the switch-in. ;[

 

[Hipmonlee]

That doesnt happen anymore mre, the pokemon doesnt switch in till after the wish takes effect.. (or non effect)

Have a nice day.

 

[choop]

Provided its faster with a measly 236 speed

236 speed is ok. It outspeeds bulky waters and tyranitar and stuff like skarm/bliss/cresselia. The only things I can think it doesn't outspeed that a 299 speed mence does is breloom, lucario, heatran, modest pZ and im sure theres like a million i missed. The point is that it outspeeds common mence counters and can 2ko most of them.

 

[General Tso]

So would Mild work better with this seeing as you're Intimidating already?

 

[Hipmonlee]

Well the fact that you have intimidatwe means you are probably going to use this salamence to take hits from physical attackers more often than special.. Especially considering a lot of special attackers carry icebeam, which normally OHKO's you anyway.

But you could run mild if you really wanted to..

Have a nice day.