Thundurus (Uber Choice Specs)

[Bruno Magno]

​

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Thunder
move 2: Volt Switch
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

Set Comments:

• 523 Special Attack without any set-up turn required
• Thunder is insanely strong under the rain, so more or less always
• Many free switches-in thanks to the key resistances (Grass, Steel, Fighting, Bug) and the immunity to Earthquake / Earth Power and Spikes
• Almost 100% of the Threat List is covered by these moves
• 111 Speed is really high in Ubers, even more than Terrakion or Latios
• Fast enough to Volt Switch against many threats - therefore needs teammates which can get many Ice-type attacks
• Focus Blast hits Dialga, Ferrothorn and other Steel-types
• Hidden Power Ice is 1HKO on almost every Dragon
• Fast enough to outspeed Espeon and Lugia (which think they're coming in a Taunt / Focus Blast) and 2HKO

Additional Comments:

• Kyogre is an helpful support, as can fire off some really strong Water Spouts to put everything in the KO range for Thunder, whose Accuracy reaches 100%. The Choice Scarf version is even better as can 2HKO a few Thundurus' checks such as Palkia
• Loves Rapid Spin support, as can Volt Switch without taking any Entry Hazards damage
• Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Nasty Plot Darkrai are faster than Thundurus and can OHKO (with Outrage and Dark Pulse), so Scizor is a good teammate as they usually switch when facing U-Turn + Bullet Punch
• Excadrill with QuakeSlide + Rapid Spin is excellent as can take Stone Edges all the day and kill threats such as Latias and Giratina-O
• Thunderbolt can be used over Thunder, but the drop in power is too much. Thunder is recommended even on a weather-less team, as Kyogre has more than 50% usage, and anyway 70% Accuracy isn't that bad
• Hammer Arm is a great option to 1HKO Blissey and Tyranitar, and also specially defensive threats such as Dialga
• Grass Knot is always 1HKO on Kyogre and Groudon, but that's it
• U-Turn can be used instead of Volt Switch to hit Ground types (Groudon, Gliscor)

 

[November Blue]

Individual sets don't need Other Options or checks and Counters sections, as they're added to the original analysis. All you need is the set, SET COMMENTS, and ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.

 

[Bruno Magno]

Ok, added the Why it deserves to be on site section in Set Comments and removed other useless parts

 

[Furai]

A few nitpicks;

• Change the set name to Choice Specs
• I honetsly don't see the point in your EV spread; just run 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, don't waste on HP
• Remove the Scizor part from SC, it's almost unseen in Ubers. Move it to AC, and explain why it is a good partner to Rayquaza or Darkrai, as Scizor's priority annoys both
• Mention that Choice Specs brings IMMEDIATE brute force where Nasty Plot needs setup
• Excadrill can also defeat Giratina-o
• Remove HP Fire, it's unneeded...
• Seperate sets don't need OO, move it to AC
• Not only ScarfOgre is a good teammate, Kyogre in general is
• If mentioning U-turn, mention that it's used to still retain the ability to scout against Ground-types such as Groudon, Ground Arceus, and Gliscor

Looks good to me otherwise, just keep that wording good.

 

[Bruno Magno]

The 8 HP EV mean Thundurus can switch in Stealth Rock four times. I have already mentioned the immediate power without any setup turn, i'll change other things

 

[Furai]

0 HP EVs do the exact same purpose as 8 HP EVs.

 

[Bruno Magno]

Changed, fixed some grammar stuff, ready for the checks

 

[Nova]

Name of set is Choice Specs but its holding Scarf. Slash it?

 

[Furai]

No, just change Scarf to Specs.

 

[Koinzell]

You might want to add calcs or logs to your Skeleton, particularly scenarios that involve Specs Thundurus getting kills that Life Orb Thundurus would miss.

One of the main asset of Thundurus is Prankster Taunt/T-Wave and I doubt it's worth giving up that, just for a little more power.

Many free switches-in thanks to the key resistances (Grass, Steel, Fighting, Bug) and the immunity to Earthquake / Earth Power and Spikes

Yeah ... Not really. Thundurus is very hard to switch in, he doesn't have the bulk to take neutral STAB attacks and he resists uncommon attacking types. Those types often involve stuff like Calm Mind Arceus-Steel who beats Thundurus and Scarf Terrakion who also has STAB Stone Edge. The Ground immunity is cool and all but Groudon often carries Stone Edge or Thunder-Wave (or both) and I don't think HP Ice KOs back.

Imo, Choice Specs is not a good item for Thundurus, I mean, just look at his moves. Thunder relies on weather and has ton of resists, Hidden Power Ice is weak and Focus Blast is unreliable. Those are, in general, not moves you want to be locked into. Volt-Switch is also not ideal on something that is Stealth Rock weak and has a lot of trouble getting on the field in the first place.

 

[trickroom]

Thunder is insanely strong under the rain, so more or less always

Thunder never becomes more powerful in the rain, it just makes it 100% accurate.

Many free switches-in thanks to the key resistances (Grass, Steel, Fighting, Bug)

All these moves are rare so those resistances rarely help it switch in better. Ground and Spikes immune is awesome though.

Almost 100% of the Threat List is covered by these moves

This is exaggerated. Blissey and Chansey now wall you completely because you have no setup move. Giratina and Reshiram are not 2HKOed by any attack. Grass Arceus can survive easily with a bulkier spread.

111 Speed is really high in Ubers, even more than Terrakion or Latios

Both Latios and Terrakion are uncommon in Ubers. 111 Speed isn't exactly high in my opinion because you are under speeding Arceus. Mewtwo, Darkrai, Deoxys-A and Shaymin-S outspeed you as well. All of them have ways to take you out. Shaymin-S can just hit you with Hidden Power Ice on more offensive versions.

Hidden Power Ice is 1HKO on almost every Dragon

Giratina, Giratina-O, Dragon Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Reshiram and Latias are not close to getting OHKOed.

Fast enough to outspeed Espeon and Lugia (which think they're coming in a Taunt / Focus Blast) and 2HKO]

I don't know about this because since when does Lugia love coming in on Thundurus? Espeon is rarely seen in Ubers and is a shaky pokemon to use anyway.

The Choice Scarf version is even better as can 2HKO a few Thundurus' checks such as Palkia

Scarf Kyogre Thunder fails to 2HKO Palkia.

Hammer Arm is a great option to 1HKO Blissey and Tyranitar, and also specially defensive threats such as Dialga

Hammer Arm doesn't OHKO Blissey, especially when this is a Specs set. Focus Blast is already a good option to OHKO Tyranitar. Dialga takes way more from Focus Blast than from Hammer Arm. Dialga also has a higher physical Defense naturally.

Grass Knot is always 1HKO on Kyogre and Groudon, but that's it

Grass Knot always fails to OHKO max HP Kyogre actually. Thunder is always the better option to use against Kyogre unless your opponent has a Ground-type.

I don't know about Specs Thundurus to be honest. I used it earlier for fun, but it didn't work well. Provide some good logs to show how it really functions well and how does it help a team, I will reject it otherwise.

Compared to Nasty Plot Thundurus, you get to sweep better, exchange moves and maybe paralyse something important such as Mewtwo before dying if you have Thunder Wave. Specs Thunder/Volt Switch is also hard to spam in Ubers as most teams tend to carry a Ground-type or at least someone who doesn't mind it, like Giratina.

 

[Bruno Magno]

Thunder never becomes more powerful in the rain, it just makes it 100% accurate.
The only Thunder's drawback is the Accuracy, but gets 100% in the rain, so it's the strongest attack that Thundurus can use

All these moves are rare so those resistances rarely help it switch in better. Ground and Spikes immune is awesome though.
Fighting and Grass attacks are really common, just think at Focus Blast, Close Combat, Solar Beam and such

This is exaggerated. Blissey and Chansey now wall you completely because you have no setup move. Giratina and Reshiram are not 2HKOed by any attack. Grass Arceus can survive easily with a bulkier spread.
Chansey can get a +4 Focus Blast i guess, while Giratina and Reshiram aren't 1HKO'ed by Hidden Power Ice even at +2. Grass Arceus can just Ice Beam for a potential 2HKO

Both Latios and Terrakion are uncommon in Ubers. 111 Speed isn't exactly high in my opinion because you are under speeding Arceus. Mewtwo, Darkrai, Deoxys-A and Shaymin-S outspeed you as well. All of them have ways to take you out. Shaymin-S can just hit you with Hidden Power Ice on more offensive versions.
Latios will be common after the Soul Dew release, and 111 Base Speed is quite high assuming all the 90s and 100s. Thunder also hits hard enough all of them

I don't know about this because since when does Lugia love coming in on Thundurus? Espeon is rarely seen in Ubers and is a shaky pokemon to use anyway.
Espeon isn't rarely seen, and often switches in Thundurus hoping to bounce a Thunder Wave

Scarf Kyogre Thunder fails to 2HKO Palkia.
The damage is heavy, and puts Palkia in the ko range for Volt Switch

Hammer Arm doesn't OHKO Blissey, especially when this is a Specs set. Focus Blast is already a good option to OHKO Tyranitar. Dialga takes way more from Focus Blast than from Hammer Arm. Dialga also has a higher physical Defense naturally.
The phisical defence is higher, but often it's 252 HP 252 SDef to get some Draco Meteors better. Hammer Arm is viable over Focus Blast, but not recommended

Grass Knot always fails to OHKO max HP Kyogre actually. Thunder is always the better option to use against Kyogre unless your opponent has a Ground-type.
Choice Specs Grass Knot can 2HKO both Kyogre and Groudon even with a 252/252+ spread i guess

 

[SJCrew]

I feel like the power boost with Choice Specs compared to Life Orb is pretty insignificant. Electric is actually resisted by a lot in Ubers, and with only 125 base Sp. Att to your name against these heavyweights, you're not breaking through any of resists. On top of that, you can't even OHKO some of the things it hits neutrally, like Palkia (76.6% - 90%) or Arceus (64.6% - 75.9%; which means he can even get a free SD off of you), so the fact that you're still going to be relying on 2HKOs as you would normally without Prankster or coverage to bail you out is pretty discouraging.

The rest of Thundurus' moves are simply not good or safe enough to even bother predicting with, and 99% of the time, you're going to want to use STAB and it won't even deal remarkable damage by Ubers standards. Too many negatives overall.

 

[Bruno Magno]

The LO set is maybe better, but this set has much more initial power and can be used in some hyper-offense teams. Just because Life Orb is stronger, it doesn't mean Choice Specs sucks

 

[alex 67]

Fighting and Grass attacks are really common, just think at Focus Blast, Close Combat, Solar Beam and such

Focus Blast? Close Combat? Solar Beam? These are some of the rarest attacks in Ubers. Solar Beam is just such a shitty move for Ubers that it's never even considered, Close Combat is only used by Terrakion who isn't that common and Focus Blast is only used by pokemon who get forced to use it, but still hate using it (Ghost Arceus).

Latios will be common after the Soul Dew release, and 111 Base Speed is quite high assuming all the 90s and 100s. Thunder also hits hard enough all of them

The problem with that is that it's still is unreleased indefinitely, and the kicker is that Latios would still win 1 on 1. Thunder also doesn't hit them hard enough many of them such as Palkia who is not ohkoed, not to mention the face that half of them resist or are immune to it.

Espeon isn't rarely seen, and often switches in Thundurus hoping to bounce a Thunder Wave

Clearly you haven't played many good players if Espeon wasn't rare when you battled and are relying on it to check a Thundurus.

The damage is heavy, and puts Palkia in the ko range for Volt Switch

Fair enough, but the problem is if Palkia stays around Thundurus at all which it would never to unless it's scarfed (and even then it expects the normal Thundurus with Prankster) unless it directly switches into Thunder, and it gets paralyzed, you lose to it.

The phisical defence is higher, but often it's 252 HP 252 SDef to get some Draco Meteors better. Hammer Arm is viable over Focus Blast, but not recommended

The only time Dialga ever uses that spread is on Bulk Up, otherwise it's never used. Dialga doesn't particularly enjoy have to tank several Draco Meteors. Hammer Arm isn't even viable IMO. I woudn't be surprised if Chansey could easily shrug it off with how weak it is. You'd be surprised with the Def of that thing. Finally Thundurus is Stealth Rock weak which means it will not be able to wear opponents down effectively with only 5 switch-ins.

 

[Tobes]

Tentative QC Rejection: Like trickroom I would be interested in seeing non-cherry picked logs, but Bruno Magno has demonstrated very clearly that he does not have enough familiarity with Ubers to write an analysis for it. If this set is QC Approved I will request that it be reassigned to a user who knows what he is talking about.

 

[trickroom]

Tentative QC Rejection: Like trickroom I would be interested in seeing non-cherry picked logs, but Bruno Magno has demonstrated very clearly that he does not have enough familiarity with Ubers to write an analysis for it. If this set is QC Approved I will request that it be reassigned to a user who knows what he is talking about.

I agree with this. Choice Specs Thundurus is already shaky but user Bruno Magno gave a horrible impression on his knowledge of the metagame. Things like Solar Beam common in Ubers and Hammer Arm is a viable option for choice SPECS Thundurus is just lame. No reason for me to test this unless a more experience user posts this set.

QC REJECTED 1/3

 

[shrang]

QC REJECTED 2/3 because real men use HP Flying on Specs Thundurus

I tried using this, I really did. I actually had some hope for it too, but it was death fodder most of the time. It was cool being able to Volt Switch on Lugia and stuff like that, but Thundurus just can't really kill much in Ubers apart from Kyogre (who kills you most of the time since they'll all Scarfed) and Lugia (which is nice, I guess). In return, you're getting killed by literally everything because of how frail Thundurus is. If Thundurus had 150 SpA where something that resists it would feel the pain, I might actually think about it, but it's just too weak, not fast enough. The Stealth Rock weakness sucks, especially considering Volt Switch is by and large the move you'll be using most of the time. You get beaten by offense because you just get killed before you do anything, and you lose to stall because you can't muscle through anything.

 

[Tobes]

QC Rejected: 3/3