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Time to artificially rise Bibarel's usage. - Tauntarel

I used it with Thunder wave > Yawn and it does well, especially when the opponent doesnt go all offense it just cripples the walls + the sweepers on the switch in (with thunder wave) . Helps when u want to setup a sweep for a fast sweeper . Only problem i had with it is that it never finds a way to get in, maybe a bulky u-turner could help.
 
ColinJF said:
I'm well aware that double battles weren't really considered in the original design. It's unfortunate and we have been planning to make changes one of these days to allow for n v. n. And yes, the rate at which bugs have been fixed has slowed down lately, but bearzly and I are only human and this is not a job.

This is true, and the solution is to use the "other pokemon involved in the attack" rather than then "opponent", and not to check the "other pokemon in the attack" for multiplier statuses if the two "pokemon involved in the attack" are the same. (In the source which I am about to link to I use the word "target" for "other pokemon in the attack", but this is just because it's shorter.) To be fair this is hardly the most obvious situation, and it's surprisingly easy to fix actually, and this solution actually should work for n v. n as well. The reason I mention this is that you make it sound as if this is a serious problem as opposed to something that is apparently trivial to fix.You can review my solution here: 1, 2 in case you would like to check for additional oversights.

The version with the bug was never live, so thanks for helping us avoid this potential issue.
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The pleasure is mine. Thank you for taking it into account. I did not mean to make it sound as if I thought the sky was falling with this Unaware thing. I'm glad the fix was so quick. And again, I understand you only have so much time to devote to fixing bugs.

If you have time to spare sometime in the future, please take a look at my guide. I wrote it with developers like you in mind and perhaps it can give some insight into correct implementations for several moves, such as Encore and Torment. It is these moves I alluded to when I wrote of changes necessary to the interface. Also, if you correctly implement Mirror Move and Copycat in Shoddy, I will literally sing your praises.

On topic for this thread, testing for Unaware has made me realize what an amazing move Swagger is on an Unaware Bibarel. The Attack boosts make the opponent hit itself harder, but don't come into effect when attacking Bibarel! Combined with Thunder Wave, you have a particularly effective Parafusion combo.
 
ColinJF said:
I went ahead and implemented Simple and Unaware. As expected, the solution was quite elegant, in light of a few minor framework changes.

This will be ready to use sometime tomorrow when the server resets itself.
Click to expand...

Very elegant indeed. Far less intrusive than I would have expected. That's always a good thing.

Also, the code to accommodate self-inflicted damage, looks like it will handle the problem. Once it is up on the server, it should be easy to test.

Thanks for turning this around so quickly, Colin. I work in software development, and it is commonly known that users never mention all the stuff that works correctly in software. But, they scream bloody murder when something is wrong. For that reason, we developers take it upon ourselves to compliment each other when things are done right. We're really the only ones who notice. So, thanks for all the work that you've done on Shoddy battle. I think it's great software. I think the internal object model is remarkably flexible, and this latest change to implement these two Abilities is a testament to that flexibility.
 
ColinJF said:
You can review my solution here: 1, 2 in case you would like to check for additional oversights.
Click to expand...

I think there's a bug in this method:

public double getEffectiveMultiplier(int i, Pokemon target) {
StatMultiplier mul = m_multiplier;
int level = mul.getLevel();
level = getEffectiveMultiplierLevel(i, level, true);
if ((target != null) && (target != this)) {
level = target.getEffectiveMultiplierLevel(i, level, false);
}
return mul.getMultiplier(level);
}

There are cases where "i" is the integer for Accuracy or Evasion. Since those values are not in the m_multiplier collection, it will throw an OutOfBounds exception.

Maybe change the first line to:

StatMultiplier mul = getMultiplier(i);

Which, I think will handle all the proper stat constants.
 
Alright, so now that I've been able to do some actual testing with Unaware now, I've discovered a few new things about the set and about Bibarel in general:

It's now pretty much a 100% Cresselia counter, because there is damn near nothing that Cresselia can do to Bibarel to avoid being killed first. The only thing it can really do is Thunder Wave, and even then it can get put to sleep.

100% counter to Bellyzard because Belly Drum gets ignored by Unaware (Charizard still has to suffer that 50% health drop if it already did it). Even Earthquake is only a 4HKO-3HKO with Leftovers. It's nice to know that there's a snappy solution to countering Bellyzard.

Yeah, it doesn't look like much, but since it has that Yawn there, it's something that can stop a potential 6-0 because of the Unaware in there. It's done that for me more than just a few times already. For instance, a Salamence was about to wipe out my team since it got 2 DDs off, but no, I brought my Bibarel out to put that damn thing to sleep and stop the rampage.

Heh, now I want to test Simple out as well, Simple looks fun.
 
I'm sure your EV spread was a lot different, since these require IVs to be all 31, so it doesn't matter that much.
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
On topic for this thread, testing for Unaware has made me realize what an amazing move Swagger is on an Unaware Bibarel. The Attack boosts make the opponent hit itself harder, but don't come into effect when attacking Bibarel! Combined with Thunder Wave, you have a particularly effective Parafusion combo.
Click to expand...

Holy cow, that's amazing! I want to know who were the geniuses at Game Freak who made Bibarel; they give it the retarded looking so everybody would underestimate it, until someone discovers its great hidden potential.

Its stats still suck, though.
 
Its a shame Bibarel doesn't get any better ice moves than IB/Blizzard off its piss poor special attack, becasue i bet you could catch a lot of dragon dancers/agility users off guard with an Unaware Choice Scarf move. Maybe Blizzard on a hail team or something...
 
Phoenix_21 said:
Its a shame Bibarel doesn't get any better ice moves than IB/Blizzard off its piss poor special attack, becasue i bet you could catch a lot of dragon dancers/agility users off guard with an Unaware Choice Scarf move. Maybe Blizzard on a hail team or something...
Click to expand...
Lol, wtf, I figured it got the fangs, which would do more, but then I looked it up and it doesn't! HOW IS IT POSSIBLE!? LOOK AT ITS HUGE BUCK TEETH!
 
Yeah, I was lookin for Ice Fang and thought it was a weird omission from its moveset. Anyway, Choice Scarf set -

Bibarel @ Choice Scarf
Unaware
Rash 4HP/252 Sp.Att/252 Spd
Blizzard
Surf
Superpower
Thunderbolt/Grass Knot

+ve Ice Beam does 86-101% dmg to 6HP/0 sp.def Garchomp for a non-hail team one, Blizzard beats the hell outta any of the dragons/Gliscor.

Superpower 2HKOs Tyranitars trying to change the weather and smacks Blissey something fierce: 50% then 33% average damage on a 6HP/252 Def Blissey from a 0att neutral nature Bibarel. Superpower hurts Lucario pretty badly too, and it doesn't have its SD anymore thanks to unaware...

Surf 2HKOs a Hippowdon trying to change the weather too.

Thunderbolt for Gyara, Grass Knot for Swampert/Grounds and to deny free switch-ins for CB/Scarf Garchomp etc.

Rash instead of Mild because most of the pokes listed here hit physical as a rule. Neutral speed with scarf either ties or beats the 115 base pokes (IDK if choice scarf rounds up or down; neutral bib's max with scarf is 361.5 and 361 is Raikous/Azelfs max).

+ve speed outspeeds all 130ers, Surf still 2HKOs Hiipow on average and Blizzard still send the 4x weaks packing, obviously.
 
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