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Metagame Trademarked

If anyone else has a Trick Room fetish, I'd appreciate any remarks on the following sets:

:Glastrier: @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Curse
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
- Heavy Slam / Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Curse is legal and makes sure you'll be slower, it also acts like a pseudo-Chilling Neigh. Glastrier has an excellent bulk (despite a terrible natural typing) and can take some hits. You may need SD againt Haze users although it means losing a precious turn.
n.b.: :iron thorns: or :rhyperior: also work the same way.

:Hoopa: @ Life Orb
Ability: Calm Mind
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

657 SpA with Life Orb is not something to laugh at.

:Metagross: @ Punching Glove
Ability: Hone Claws
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch

SD being restricted, Hone Claws is a fine plan B. Punching Gloves ignores Rocky Helmet and works with every move except Zen Headbutt (which could be replaced by EQ for better coverage).

:Magnezone: @ Throat Spray
Ability: Metal Sound
Tera Type: Grass / Ground / Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Tera Blast
- Volt Switch / Steel Beam

This one is ok I guess. Metal Sound activates Throat Spray and may force your opponent to switch.

See ya!
 
Dorsia said:
If anyone else has a Trick Room fetish, I'd appreciate any remarks on the following sets:

:Glastrier: @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Curse
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
- Heavy Slam / Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Curse is legal and makes sure you'll be slower, it also acts like a pseudo-Chilling Neigh. Glastrier has an excellent bulk (despite a terrible natural typing) and can take some hits. You may need SD againt Haze users although it means losing a precious turn.
n.b.: :iron thorns: or :rhyperior: also work the same way.

:Hoopa: @ Life Orb
Ability: Calm Mind
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

657 SpA with Life Orb is not something to laugh at.

:Metagross: @ Punching Glove
Ability: Hone Claws
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch

SD being restricted, Hone Claws is a fine plan B. Punching Gloves ignores Rocky Helmet and works with every move except Zen Headbutt (which could be replaced by EQ for better coverage).

:Magnezone: @ Throat Spray
Ability: Metal Sound
Tera Type: Grass / Ground / Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Tera Blast
- Volt Switch / Steel Beam

This one is ok I guess. Metal Sound activates Throat Spray and may force your opponent to switch.

See ya!
Click to expand...
Metagross learns Psychic Fangs.
 
Anyone got any lead smeargle ideas, so far I've been using this on teams that don't require tera.

Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: imprison
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Blood Moon
- Encore
- Transform
 
Reflect, Light Screen, and Wish spam are a symptom of the current unhealthiness in the metagame, not a cause.

Bulk Up/Calm Mind paired with a Choice Band/Specs and Terastalization raises the damage output of offense to extreme levels that defensive walls cannot counter effectively without using screens. When ridiculous calculations such as
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Iron Crown Tachyon Cutter (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 284-336 (72 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Iron Crown Tachyon Cutter (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 132-156 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 1.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 367-433 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 204-240 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 196-233 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Rain: 230-272 (49.6 - 58.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
exist, screens are absolutely necessary for stall to actually have a fighting chance against offense.

Sure, you can try running Amnesia or Iron Defense on one Pokemon, but that singular Pokemon cannot possibly check the myriad of offensive attackers. Wish is similar to screens, but instead of providing defensive value, it provides valuable recovery for Pokemon that would eventually be recovery PP drained or to prevent easy 2HKOs.

The rise of new threats such as Archaludon, Annihilape, Hoopa-Unbound, and Keldeo only amplify the issues stall has to face. Rain teams using IronPress Archaludon easily threaten Blissey and force the use of Clodsire, which is weak to Surf and Psyshock. Annihilape will almost always defeat stall long-term with proper play, Hoopa-Unbound completely wrecks stall teams not using screens or a Dark Pokemon, and Keldeo can only be walled by Toxapex. It doesn't help that other offensive Ubers, such as Baxcalibur, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Gouging Fire, Regieleki, Shaymin-Sky, and Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, have been unbanned, and they likely won't be banned soon, despite some of them probably being broken, due to their lack of usage in such an unstable environment.

You can argue that stall can always run Haze too, until you realize that most good Haze Pokemon are Water types and can be easily exploited by Charge Pokemon and random Electric coverage.

I do agree that Wish spam is extremely brainless and boring, but restricting Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Wish without nerfing offense in some way should not be considered.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361627818 (loss to Rain Archaludon)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361703661?p2 (loss to hazard stack)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361933142?p2 (loss to Rain)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361364986?p2 (win to poorly EVed Hoopa-Unbound)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361245235?p2 (loss to timer, Glowking and Landorus still issues)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361303136-og2r05v0w8sn3ql4ho0txxtuj69yapqpw (loss to Rain, cannot beat Keldeo)
 
ShikiEiki said:
Anyone got any lead smeargle ideas, so far I've been using this on teams that don't require tera.

Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: imprison
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Blood Moon
- Encore
- Transform
Click to expand...

I present you... TOXIC THREAD SMEARGLE.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: toxicthread
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield
- Parting Shot
- Leech Seed (or whatever you want)

A speed drop and toxic on entry/switch is actually kind of insane. Hope people try it out would love to see more than just Transform Imprison.
 
Ilhoon said:
I present you... TOXIC THREAD SMEARGLE.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: toxicthread
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield
- Parting Shot
- Leech Seed (or whatever you want)

A speed drop and toxic on entry/switch is actually kind of insane. Hope people try it out would love to see more than just Transform Imprison.
Click to expand...
I'll probably give it a try, always fun to see what creative things you can use smeargle for.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
Reflect, Light Screen, and Wish spam are a symptom of the current unhealthiness in the metagame, not a cause.

Bulk Up/Calm Mind paired with a Choice Band/Specs and Terastalization raises the damage output of offense to extreme levels that defensive walls cannot counter effectively without using screens. When ridiculous calculations such as
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Iron Crown Tachyon Cutter (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 284-336 (72 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Iron Crown Tachyon Cutter (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 132-156 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 1.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 367-433 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 204-240 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 196-233 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Rain: 230-272 (49.6 - 58.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
exist, screens are absolutely necessary for stall to actually have a fighting chance against offense.

Sure, you can try running Amnesia or Iron Defense on one Pokemon, but that singular Pokemon cannot possibly check the myriad of offensive attackers. Wish is similar to screens, but instead of providing defensive value, it provides valuable recovery for Pokemon that would eventually be recovery PP drained or to prevent easy 2HKOs.

The rise of new threats such as Archaludon, Annihilape, Hoopa-Unbound, and Keldeo only amplify the issues stall has to face. Rain teams using IronPress Archaludon easily threaten Blissey and force the use of Clodsire, which is weak to Surf and Psyshock. Annihilape will almost always defeat stall long-term with proper play, Hoopa-Unbound completely wrecks stall teams not using screens or a Dark Pokemon, and Keldeo can only be walled by Toxapex. It doesn't help that other offensive Ubers, such as Baxcalibur, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Gouging Fire, Regieleki, Shaymin-Sky, and Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, have been unbanned, and they likely won't be banned soon, despite some of them probably being broken, due to their lack of usage in such an unstable environment.

You can argue that stall can always run Haze too, until you realize that most good Haze Pokemon are Water types and can be easily exploited by Charge Pokemon and random Electric coverage.

I do agree that Wish spam is extremely brainless and boring, but restricting Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Wish without nerfing offense in some way should not be considered.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361627818 (loss to Rain Archaludon)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361703661?p2 (loss to hazard stack)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361933142?p2 (loss to Rain)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361364986?p2 (win to poorly EVed Hoopa-Unbound)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361245235?p2 (loss to timer, Glowking and Landorus still issues)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2361303136-og2r05v0w8sn3ql4ho0txxtuj69yapqpw (loss to Rain, cannot beat Keldeo)
Click to expand...
100% agreed, charge magnet regieleki volt switch does like min 40% after lefties to max SpDef Empoleon through LScreen. Same eleki set does ~30% to max/max AV Primarina through LScreen.

That aside I'm here to promote the GOAT Brambleghast y'all should use him :3
Brambleghast @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: strengthsap
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 228 Def
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Rapid Spin
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
 
Concept said:
Manaphy Antimeta I was using on ladder, went 10-1 with it which isn’t a huge sample size but it still performed really well.

:manaphy: :Alomomola: :Gholdengo: :skarmory: :Terapagos-Terastal: :ursaluna-bloodmoon:

I’d consider looking at a recovery move nerf or limitation. Bulkier teams are very problematic in the tier, a majority of the immediate offensive options within the metagame are banned and because of that it’s harder to gain a significant lead over your opponent when they have the ability to consistently slow wish their check back to full health. (If the Pokémon itself isn’t carrying recovery)

I’d also suggest banning Shed Tail as a whole because Shed Tail spam is easily abusable and I’m surprised it hasn’t been yet.
View attachment 739473
Click to expand...
I tried this team, and I like it overall, but I have no idea how you are supposed to deal with screens. Most teams would have defog or something.
 
Maybe this isn't a popular opinion - I have no idea - but I am not entirely convinced that a Magnet Pull ban is justified. Trapping has always been a controversial mechanic, and I doubt anyone would try to argue that Arena Trap and Shadow Tag aren't uncompetitive, but Magnet Pull has some pretty significant trade-offs and requires decent positioning to be used successfully.

First of all, you have to sacrifice a Trademark in order to run the ability. That's a pretty big deal. Secondly, if the opponent doesn't have any trappable Steels, you are stuck with a useless ability.
Of all the popular Steel types, only really Corv and Skarm get trapped. Others either don't get trapped (Gholdengo) or have favourable match ups (Iron Treads, Archaludon). Some of the others can go either way (Iron Crown, Revaroom).

SV OU and Trademarked are obviously very different metas, but it is interesting that Magnet Pull is legal in OU (and not that great), but is banned here despite the vastly higher power level - due to powerful Trademarks and Uber level threats (like Chi Yu & Annihilape, for example) being available.

Anyway, I am not invested enough in the meta to care either way. Nor am I flame baiting, just thought it was interesting.

On a semi-related note, a lot of players seem to be overlooking other powerful regular abilities. In the Freezai tour I saw the following put in a lot of work :

- Good as Gold Gholdengo
- Unaware Dondozo
- Beads of Ruin Chi Yu
- Defiant Kingambit (with Tera Dark to bop Defog Corv)

There's probably a bunch more that haven't seen that much use yet.

Also, it was mentioned on the sim that Wish is being looked into. This is definitely welcome - it's pretty demoralising to lose 30+ turns of progress due to how easily stuff can be wished back to full for basically zero effort
 
word said:
Maybe this isn't a popular opinion - I have no idea - but I am not entirely convinced that a Magnet Pull ban is justified. Trapping has always been a controversial mechanic, and I doubt anyone would try to argue that Arena Trap and Shadow Tag aren't uncompetitive, but Magnet Pull has some pretty significant trade-offs and requires decent positioning to be used successfully.

First of all, you have to sacrifice a Trademark in order to run the ability. That's a pretty big deal. Secondly, if the opponent doesn't have any trappable Steels, you are stuck with a useless ability.
Of all the popular Steel types, only really Corv and Skarm get trapped. Others either don't get trapped (Gholdengo) or have favourable match ups (Iron Treads, Archaludon). Some of the others can go either way (Iron Crown, Revaroom).

SV OU and Trademarked are obviously very different metas, but it is interesting that Magnet Pull is legal in OU (and not that great), but is banned here despite the vastly higher power level - due to powerful Trademarks and Uber level threats (like Chi Yu & Annihilape, for example) being available.

Anyway, I am not invested enough in the meta to care either way. Nor am I flame baiting, just thought it was interesting.
Click to expand...
mpull is an idea for a test but the biggest issue is that corv is the centerpiece of the meta rn and its holding back the demons of the tier. we do have tera but having to tera to get out of mpull is really bad + limits your viable teras as you have to be able to answer weavile + fightings + zone in 1 tera type while not being rocks weak, which leaves you with tera fairy, electric, and ghost. its worth testing it but with how the meta is rn its a bit risky.

if corv wasnt so important id corruption unban it rn (for tiering reasons this is a joke)
 
Some noted complaints I have about the tier in specifics -

Recovery moves, particularly Wish, are utterly ridiculous. Being able to come in for essentially Better Regenerator is stupidly good, and Wish lets your whole team do that. The fact that Wish wasn't banned immediately upon the inception of the tier honestly shocks me. Ban Wish already.

Hazards are also ever-present. Forcing every team to run Mono-Boots or a Defogger is stupid. Shoutout Hatterene though! Nothing like running a Normal Pokemon to beat the tier's gimmick!

Instant Gravity is in theory broken - removing ground immunities is a big thing and actually would allow offense teams to make headway. I haven't had much issue with it thanks to Sinistcha (who's also broken but hey, you're essentially running intimidate + recovery on switch in)

Trick Room is probably broken too - but I literally haven't played against it once.

Setup moves, while heavily restricted (no SD, no NP) are still - shocker Broken. Giving any Pokemon what is essentially Gen 8 Intrepid Sword but better is really silly. Growth in particular is stupid - we banned swords dance & we banned Nasty Plot - how did Growth get the pass?

Rage fist and Clangorous Soul are just problem moves in general, but are amplified by Wish. If Wish goes (which it should), these moves might be less broken, but would still be annoying overall.

Regarding the tier overall, though... The tier has a blatant and glaring in that, SHOCKER - using a status move for free is BROKEN! Because of this, matches either become really stall-y games with Wish+Recovery or unstoppable offense with instant setup moves. And when you look at all of the main problem Trademarks of the tier being Recovery, Setup, Hazards, etc... It doesn't leave you a lot to work with if these were to be removed.

I honestly don't think this metagame is very competitive - or very fun in general. In my opinion, I'd honestly recommend players to stay far away from this metagame. It's simply not fun, and in video games like these, fun is the ideal goal.
INB4 1 million angry/haha reacts
 
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Is it an oversight that rock polish and shift gear are legal while agility is banned?

It's weird that random rock types and revavroom get to ignore the sanctity of speed tiers while others don't?
 
I would like to present to you 2 of the most horribly and poorly crafted teams I have ever made! Why? Because It's funny! Enjoy these unique teams I created (I did yoink an idea from the thread so shoutout Ilhoon for toxic thread smeargle)

Power Trip will NEVER work here and Soak Lanturn will carry EVERY game!
https://pokepast.es/4c08a17b84476590

This is Mienshao Hyper-Offense in disguise! (Enjoy the random safeguard Moltres)
https://pokepast.es/e62d96e7bd5df7ec
 
FalcoRCM said:
Is it an oversight that rock polish and shift gear are legal while agility is banned?

It's weird that random rock types and revavroom get to ignore the sanctity of speed tiers while others don't?
Click to expand...
Is intended because those mons aren't as good as the average agility user.
 
Anpawo said:
Clas

hello, will ability swappers be fixed someday ?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2362703773-xp0g6ex56dgt9g56oa9cuowt32oseespw

Check turn 8. I canceled a move like disable but even before the move was used.
Click to expand...
Choice lock bug with a mix of javascript jargon to top it off lol, very fun. I think for now to stop potential gameplay impeding Skill Swap may have to be hit but the Trademark does otherwise nothing so it's not that big a loss tbh. Will confirm/deny this after speaking to coders.
 
stampydog said:
Does Lock-On Zap Cannon Regieleki have any potential or does it lose too much damage from not having transistor?
Click to expand...
252 SpA Regieleki Zap Cannon vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 96-114 (14.7 - 17.4%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252 SpA Regieleki Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 111-132 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO (+2 because the damage calc doesn't have Charge)

Just use charge, you get way more power that way.
 
Annihilape @ Covert Cloak
Ability: screech
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rage Fist
- Bulk Up
- Rest

Just sharing a set I found really good for dealing with :Alomomola: for stall, screech combined with :Annihilape:'s 300 BP STAB allows :Annihilape: to obliterate :Alomomola:, forcing it to switch out and preventing it from healing itself. Combined with a strong defensive core to deal with the threats :Alomomola: switches into as well as a :Alomomola: of your own to heal off the chip incurred from the opposing :Alomomola:'s flip turns, this set can help force opponents to choose between letting their own :Alomomola: be worn down or forcing other, often more fragile, mons on their team to take a fully invested :Annihilape:'s rage fist. Here's a team I've been having a lot of success with using this set: https://pokepast.es/90f02b2ec32ab850
 
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