Pokémon Trevenant

[Arctas]

Alright, maybe I'm missing something, or maybe everyones ideas are just well past me, but...

Trevenant has a lower base speed than Excadrill, Scizor and Tyranitar, yet some of you are saying he can outspeed Tyranitar with a choice band? Uhh, PRETTY sure that most people will EV train Scizor and Excadrill in speed, but may or may not EV train Tyranitar in speed. Even so, Choice Band is going to put Tyranitar well out of reach of Trevenant unless we almost max out his speed EVs.

Even so, pouring EVs into Trevenants speed just seems silly to me, since he IS so slow, and the extra points could be added into something else to make him even a little more bulky and survive hits that would normally put him out of commission. I see Tyranitar being a real threat to Trevenant, but max Defense EVs would probably give him a large edge in surviving a Crunch from it.
yet
I know you all are all about crunching numbers, but still.. Numbers are only a small portion of the battle, and not everyone and their mom is going to run Tyranitar. Plus, we have to worry about Mega-Tyranitar now, which I guess everyone is just forgetting about. And yeah, some people may not use Mega-Ttar, but some people will probably still use it for its novelty. Ontop of that, I see Unnerve Ttar -> Mega Ttar being a huge "F--- YOU!" to Trevenant, stopping Trevenant from using its berry and then pelting it for sandstorm damage before Crunching it for the KO with no way of recovering.

Of course, I'm only talking hypothetically, as I haven't really messed around with Trevenant yet. Still, there are a lot of things that I don't see adding up in some of these discussions. Is pouring points into an extremely lackluster stat in order to attempt to outspeed worth it, or wouldn't it be better to EV train a stat that could help survivability against everything better? Considering EV training this tree in speed will only help it against things you may or may not see very often...

 

[Ulevo]

Alright, maybe I'm missing something, or maybe everyones ideas are just well past me, but...

Trevenant has a lower base speed than Excadrill, Scizor and Tyranitar, yet some of you are saying he can outspeed Tyranitar with a choice band? Uhh, PRETTY sure that most people will EV train Scizor and Excadrill in speed, but may or may not EV train Tyranitar in speed. Even so, Choice Band is going to put Tyranitar well out of reach of Trevenant unless we almost max out his speed EVs.

Even so, pouring EVs into Trevenants speed just seems silly to me, since he IS so slow, and the extra points could be added into something else to make him even a little more bulky and survive hits that would normally put him out of commission. I see Tyranitar being a real threat to Trevenant, but max Defense EVs would probably give him a large edge in surviving a Crunch from it.
yet
I know you all are all about crunching numbers, but still.. Numbers are only a small portion of the battle, and not everyone and their mom is going to run Tyranitar. Plus, we have to worry about Mega-Tyranitar now, which I guess everyone is just forgetting about. And yeah, some people may not use Mega-Ttar, but some people will probably still use it for its novelty. Ontop of that, I see Unnerve Ttar -> Mega Ttar being a huge "F--- YOU!" to Trevenant, stopping Trevenant from using its berry and then pelting it for sandstorm damage before Crunching it for the KO with no way of recovering.

Of course, I'm only talking hypothetically, as I haven't really messed around with Trevenant yet. Still, there are a lot of things that I don't see adding up in some of these discussions. Is pouring points into an extremely lackluster stat in order to attempt to outspeed worth it, or wouldn't it be better to EV train a stat that could help survivability against everything better? Considering EV training this tree in speed will only help it against things you may or may not see very often...

Tyranitar is only 10 points faster than Trevenant. Scizor is only 16 points faster. Both of these Pokemon are at #9 and #13 in overall usage, and are some of the most popular threats in the meta right now. They're also important burn targets, and without a burn, they're a threat to Trevenant. Most people do not run speed on their Tyranitar or their Scizor because the bulk from investing in HP and SpD is too important. You'd be foolish to not invest the necessary speed EV's to reach this speed tier.

And no one is going to use Unnerve Tyranitar to shut down a single Pokemon when it gets residual damage for 5 turns plus 50% increased durability.

 

[El Coqui]

Alright, maybe I'm missing something, or maybe everyones ideas are just well past me, but...

Trevenant has a lower base speed than Excadrill, Scizor and Tyranitar, yet some of you are saying he can outspeed Tyranitar with a choice band? Uhh, PRETTY sure that most people will EV train Scizor and Excadrill in speed, but may or may not EV train Tyranitar in speed. Even so, Choice Band is going to put Tyranitar well out of reach of Trevenant unless we almost max out his speed EVs.

Even so, pouring EVs into Trevenants speed just seems silly to me, since he IS so slow, and the extra points could be added into something else to make him even a little more bulky and survive hits that would normally put him out of commission. I see Tyranitar being a real threat to Trevenant, but max Defense EVs would probably give him a large edge in surviving a Crunch from it.
yet
I know you all are all about crunching numbers, but still.. Numbers are only a small portion of the battle, and not everyone and their mom is going to run Tyranitar. Plus, we have to worry about Mega-Tyranitar now, which I guess everyone is just forgetting about. And yeah, some people may not use Mega-Ttar, but some people will probably still use it for its novelty. Ontop of that, I see Unnerve Ttar -> Mega Ttar being a huge "F--- YOU!" to Trevenant, stopping Trevenant from using its berry and then pelting it for sandstorm damage before Crunching it for the KO with no way of recovering.

Of course, I'm only talking hypothetically, as I haven't really messed around with Trevenant yet. Still, there are a lot of things that I don't see adding up in some of these discussions. Is pouring points into an extremely lackluster stat in order to attempt to outspeed worth it, or wouldn't it be better to EV train a stat that could help survivability against everything better? Considering EV training this tree in speed will only help it against things you may or may not see very often...

Tyranitar is only 10 points faster than Trevenant. Scizor is only 16 points faster. Both of these Pokemon are at #9 and #13 in overall usage, and are some of the most popular threats in the meta right now. They're also important burn targets, and without a burn, they're a threat to Trevenant. Most people do not run speed on their Tyranitar or their Scizor because the bulk from investing in HP and SpD is too important. You'd be foolish to not invest the necessary speed EV's to reach this speed tier.

And no one is going to use Unnerve Tyranitar to shut down a single Pokemon when it gets residual damage for 5 turns plus 50% increased durability.

on top of this you only need 76 speed evs to outspeed Scisor (and by default T-Tar) so you can still keep 180hp and with a stall set you should have no problem countering either one once they are burned

 

[Ryolain]

long rant about Speed EVs

Unless you can make a cohesive argument for what other Pokes Trev beats with those 76 EVs put into another stat that it can't with them put into Speed, that's where they should go. Scizor and Ttar are big threats and are used commonly. They are not commonly run with Speed. Since it's impossible to counter every Poke with every possible set, you have to go with what's feasible and most likely to be encountered. EV training is not a magical damage adjuster - saying you could EV train Trev in Defense doesn't mean you can give it as much Defense as you want. There's a finite amount you can buff that stat, and that amount is not enough to beat these two important threats. 76 Speed EVs is.

Speed is also one of the best returns on investment, because if you can outspeed something you've already reduced the damage you have to take from it by 100%. Putting 76 EVs into Defense will make almost no difference overall to how well you can take a hit, unless it's for a very specific one. With 76 Speed EVs, you are guaranteeing that you will take 0 damage from Scizor/Ttar before you can burn them (other than Bullet Punch from Scizor). That's a much better guarantee than any amount of Def EVs.

 

[NightFire7]

I'm thinking of an offensive trick room trevenant set

Item: Life orb
Ability: Natural cure
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252 attack
252 HP
4 Defense

Trick room
Horn leech
Shadow claw
Earthquake

Trevenant has base 110 attack which is actually pretty decent for a pokemon that I have seen mainly used defensively and with a life orb and max attack it actually can hit hard and because of its slow speed it can make use of trick room. Natural cure is for being cured of any status if it switches out, Horn leech is for STAB and recovery and also hitting rotom wash and other bulky water types with, Shadow claw is STAB and for taking out stuff such as gengar and alakazam once you have a trick room up and ghost is one of the most powerful offensive types in this gen because it hits so many things for neutral damage. Earthquake is basically for pokes such as heatran and excadrill. I really do think that trevenant can actually do quite well on a trick room team. I know this set gets destroyed by flying types in general and not fullproof by any means but any type of set for any pokemon will always have a counter.

EDIT: actually run brave instead of adamant.

 

[qwazz]

I'm thinking of an offensive trick room trevenant set

Item: Life orb
Ability: Natural cure
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252 attack
252 HP
4 Defense

Trick room
Horn leech
Shadow claw
Earthquake

Trevenant has base 110 attack which is actually pretty decent for a pokemon that I have seen mainly used defensively and with a life orb and max attack it actually can hit hard and because of its slow speed it can make use of trick room. Natural cure is for being cured of any status if it switches out, Horn leech is for STAB and recovery and also hitting rotom wash and other bulky water types with, Shadow claw is STAB and for taking out stuff such as gengar and alakazam once you have a trick room up and ghost is one of the most powerful offensive types in this gen because it hits so many things for neutral damage. Earthquake is basically for pokes such as heatran and excadrill. I really do think that trevenant can actually do quite well on a trick room team. I know this set gets destroyed by flying types in general and not fullproof by any means but any type of set for any pokemon will always have a counter.

Why would you use adamant on a trick room team... Use brave, but there are definitely better trick room users than this

 

[NightFire7]

Why would you use adamant on a trick room team... Use brave, but there are definitely better trick room users than this

Trevenant has base 56 speed. There may be better trick room users, but this pokemon is still slow as dirt and adamant is to max out trevenant's attack stat because sadly trevenant doesn't actually get access to any boosting moves except for growth. Plus apparently running speed evs on azumarill is actually a thing now since people are running the belly drum set.

 

[Ryolain]

Trevenant has base 56 speed. There may be better trick room users, but this pokemon is still slow as dirt and adamant is to max out trevenant's attack stat because sadly trevenant doesn't actually get access to any boosting moves except for growth. Plus apparently running speed evs on azumarill is actually a thing now since people are running the belly drum set.

Brave does max out his attack stat while dropping his speed so you're even more likely to guarantee going first in Trick Room.

 

[Arctas]

Unless you can make a cohesive argument for what other Pokes Trev beats with those 76 EVs put into another stat that it can't with them put into Speed, that's where they should go. Scizor and Ttar are big threats and are used commonly. They are not commonly run with Speed. Since it's impossible to counter every Poke with every possible set, you have to go with what's feasible and most likely to be encountered. EV training is not a magical damage adjuster - saying you could EV train Trev in Defense doesn't mean you can give it as much Defense as you want. There's a finite amount you can buff that stat, and that amount is not enough to beat these two important threats. 76 Speed EVs is.

Speed is also one of the best returns on investment, because if you can outspeed something you've already reduced the damage you have to take from it by 100%. Putting 76 EVs into Defense will make almost no difference overall to how well you can take a hit, unless it's for a very specific one. With 76 Speed EVs, you are guaranteeing that you will take 0 damage from Scizor/Ttar before you can burn them (other than Bullet Punch from Scizor). That's a much better guarantee than any amount of Def EVs.

As I said in my post, I figured the extra couple points in defense or special defense could help him survive other threats, besides those two. I haven't play tested it at all, and I was just asking for a little more understanding on the topic. I've never bothered to use Tyranitar on a team, so I don't know what people pour EVs into when using him.

I'm not a number-crunching fanatic, so I don't know exactly what the returns are for a few points of defense/sp. defense, so figured I'd ask about them. No need to get up on a pedestal about it. ~.~

I appreciate the second paragraph you wrote, since that was much more helpful than half of the first. Thanks for the info.

 

[El Coqui]

As I said in my post, I figured the extra couple points in defense or special defense could help him survive other threats, besides those two. I haven't play tested it at all, and I was just asking for a little more understanding on the topic. I've never bothered to use Tyranitar on a team, so I don't know what people pour EVs into when using him.

I'm not a number-crunching fanatic, so I don't know exactly what the returns are for a few points of defense/sp. defense, so figured I'd ask about them. No need to get up on a pedestal about it. ~.~

I appreciate the second paragraph you wrote, since that was much more helpful than half of the first. Thanks for the info.

The first made total sense. You put the 76evs in speed and you burning those targets will help more than you just putting 76 in def and still taking a big hit from Crunch before the burn

 

[Ryolain]

As I said in my post, I figured the extra couple points in defense or special defense could help him survive other threats, besides those two. I haven't play tested it at all, and I was just asking for a little more understanding on the topic. I've never bothered to use Tyranitar on a team, so I don't know what people pour EVs into when using him.

I'm not a number-crunching fanatic, so I don't know exactly what the returns are for a few points of defense/sp. defense, so figured I'd ask about them. No need to get up on a pedestal about it. ~.~

I appreciate the second paragraph you wrote, since that was much more helpful than half of the first. Thanks for the info.

My point was really just that "you can EV train in X stat" is a common argument I see among newer players and it doesn't make sense. Every opponent you face in competitive battling will have fully invested all 508 EVs available to them, it's not like in-game where just having an EV trained Poke gives you a crazy leg up over the computer opponents. Maybe I was a bit aggressive in my phrasing, but my point still stands.

The best way to become a number-cruncing fanatic is to start running your own calcs: Damage Calculator

It's really easy, the calculator will even automatically fill in the most common EV spread and movepool for the Poke you select.

 

[GhostmasterSoulix]

My Trevenant , Works wonders for me<3

-Trevenant Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Natural cure
EVs: 128 def/ 128 sp def/ 100 att / 152 speed
moves:
Rest
Power up punch
Shadow claw
Horn Leech

My wall destroyer <3 i use this bad boy in my main ghost mono team <3 I only use ghost type pokemon and so i plenty of time to research :) in my team i have Golurk, Gengar, Chandelure, Jellicent, Trevenant, and Sableye.
Trevenant is used for fishing a fire type move out of the opponent into my chandelure and mow everything with flamethrower + flash fire. i switch into trevenant on moves that could hurt my other pokemon bad like t bolt/ earthquake and be fine, also status inflicting moves i throw trevy out to "absorb" and cure its self , lefties for reliable recovery, horn leach for recovery and bulky walls , shadow claw for better coverage, power up punch to increse attack while crippling normal type walls . and rest to cure myself most walls cant attack for crap so on a bulky trevenant + lefties, no threat at all! i can skip the two sleepish turns and survive with no prob at all! perfect set for my perfect role in the team! Trevy my wall destroyer! :D

 

[qwazz]

My Trevenant , Works wonders for me<3

-Trevenant Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Natural cure
EVs: 128 def/ 128 sp def/ 100 att / 152 speed
moves:
Rest
Power up punch
Shadow claw
Horn Leech

My wall destroyer <3 i use this bad boy in my main ghost mono team <3 I only use ghost type pokemon and so i plenty of time to research :) in my team i have Golurk, Gengar, Chandelure, Jellicent, Trevenant, and Sableye.
Trevenant is used for fishing a fire type move out of the opponent into my chandelure and mow everything with flamethrower + flash fire. i switch into trevenant on moves that could hurt my other pokemon bad like t bolt/ earthquake and be fine, also status inflicting moves i throw trevy out to "absorb" and cure its self , lefties for reliable recovery, horn leach for recovery and bulky walls , shadow claw for better coverage, power up punch to increse attack while crippling normal type walls . and rest to cure myself most walls cant attack for crap so on a bulky trevenant + lefties, no threat at all! i can skip the two sleepish turns and survive with no prob at all! perfect set for my perfect role in the team! Trevy my wall destroyer! :D

I'm sorry but this set is horrible... First off, you're using a nature that goes against attack, which I don't think is what you want. Second, his attack goes to 280 with this, which is nothing close to a wall breaker. So many physical walls would have no trouble with this.
Exhibit A: 100- Atk Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 46-55 (12.9 - 15.5%) -- so much power
Exhibit B: 100- Atk Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 51-61 (13.4 - 16%) -- fantastic!
Exhibit C: 100- Atk Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 49-58 (13.9 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO, amazing!
Convinced yet? It can't do squat to any of these major threats, and in return, they will proceed to use you as set up fodder for spikes and rocks. At that point, even if you use power up punch, and you get to +6, they will send out their pokemon that can easily deal with trevenant, and kill it. So what you've managed to accomplish is suicide kill 1 of their hazard set up pokemon, but at that point it did its job, so you now have 3 spikes and a stealth rock on your field. Trevenant has no place as a wall breaker, it is meant to take a hit and then burn the attacker. Your set will not work in any way shape or form

 

[The Pope]

Pretty sure this is what everyone else is running, but

Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252HP/4Atk/252SpD
Horn Leech
Substitute
Leech Seed
Will-O-Wisp

Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp both help me gradually whittle bulky Pokemon away within just a few turns, and Horn Leech is there for my one STAB attack (ghost attacks are too problematic when I run into normals). I pack him with Special Defense because Will-O-Wisp cleaves physical attack in half. A Swords Dancing Aegislash, once Will-O-Wisp'd, can't hit Trevenant hard or fast enough to take him out before the burn takes its toll. I use him primarily as a spinblocker, but he's sometimes capable of tackling an entire team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-78083198

 

[moonlit_umbreon]

Everyone seems focused in on 2 ideas: Either Natural Cure + Rest, or Harvest + Sitrus Berry.

Having used Sitrus-Harvest Exeggutor extensively in the lower tiers this gen, I can tell you that it is not reliable due to the fact that you're vulnerable to status, and Harvest only activates 50% of the time outside of sun.

And while using Rest alongside Natural Cure is absolutely wonderful recovery, it still leaves you no choice but to switch out on the next turn. So here's a way to combine both strategies:

Trevenant @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 120 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wood Hammer / Horn Leech
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

And viola, just like that, you're now effectively immune to status, and can instantly restore both status and max HP by using Rest. Rest will activate the berry, and Harvest will recover it. You'll be status free, ready to strike back the next turn instead of being forced out the next turn like the Natural Cure version.

This is the strategy I settled on with Exeggutor in NU, and it blows away the other options. I think it would be Trevenant's best bet as well!

I really like this. Excellent work. If weather hadn't been nerfed in the transition, Trevenant would be a GOD with a set like this. It's still viable outside of weather as well.

 

[Khan!!!]

i wonder if curse in conjuction with harvest+sitrus would be viable. something like curse/leech seed/sub/phantom force

 

[CheKen]

I've been thinking of making a trevenant myself. This is what I've come up with as a current set, yet to test it out:
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Nature: Impish
EV's: 252 HP, 108 Def, 148 Sp.D
Moves:
Leech Seed
Substitute
Horn Leech
Will-O-Wisp

Not 100% on the EV spread yet, so I was linked here and thought I'd ask (first time using smogon here :s)

 

[qwazz]

I've been thinking of making a trevenant myself. This is what I've come up with as a current set, yet to test it out:
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Nature: Impish
EV's: 252 HP, 108 Def, 148 Sp.D
Moves:
Leech Seed
Substitute
Horn Leech
Will-O-Wisp

Not 100% on the EV spread yet, so I was linked here and thought I'd ask (first time using smogon here :s)

Welcome to smogon.

Having a mixed wall isn't the best idea from what I've seen, but I haven't tried it myself so good luck with that. However, I'd like to point out, that you should give it a careful nature, because you will get a bigger boost there, so you can take off some EV's in Sp.D, an put them into Def. You will have more defenses that way. I'm not sure if this is clear, so I'll just show you what I mean

 

[Uore]

on top of this you only need 76 speed evs to outspeed Scisor (and by default T-Tar) so you can still keep 180hp and with a stall set you should have no problem countering either one once they are burned

insert talonflame
or hawlucha
or just about anything with over 100 speed with a super effective move

 

[Bunnelby]

Hawlucha probably isn't a good example- it isn't bad, but not OU material.
Anyways, this is the top most annoying thing since Funbro and Swagkey. Harvest+Sitrus+Will-O-Miss+Sub+Leech Seed+Sub+Horn Leech= the opponent tearing their hair out. I don't see him too often (thank goodness) but when I do, he's a beast. Have a nice Entei ready with Sacred Fire?
Not today- Trev tanks your move with a combo of Sitrus, Horn Leech, and Leech Seed, then switches to a bulky water who proceeps to decimate your team.
Now, this may be exxageration, but it sure feels that way >:\

 

[Uore]

Hawlucha probably isn't a good example- it isn't bad, but not OU material.
Anyways, this is the top most annoying thing since Funbro and Swagkey. Harvest+Sitrus+Will-O-Miss+Sub+Leech Seed+Sub+Horn Leech= the opponent tearing their hair out. I don't see him too often (thank goodness) but when I do, he's a beast. Have a nice Entei ready with Sacred Fire?
Not today- Trev tanks your move with a combo of Sitrus, Horn Leech, and Leech Seed, then switches to a bulky water who proceeps to decimate your team.
Now, this may be exxageration, but it sure feels that way >:\

aegislash shadow sneak or gale wings brave bird are good ways to take out, situs does a quarter, your doing 3 quarters (against most), trevenant is dead in 2 turns alongside horn leech and leech seed.

 

[El Coqui]

insert talonflame
or hawlucha
or just about anything with over 100 speed with a super effective move

when did i ever mention the birds? you literally just made no sense in this argument

 

[Colonial]

aegislash shadow sneak or gale wings brave bird are good ways to take out, situs does a quarter, your doing 3 quarters (against most), trevenant is dead in 2 turns alongside horn leech and leech seed.

Trevenant has counters and pokemon that can handle him, that's undeniable. However, nobody claimed Trevenant was some sort of uncounterable monster, simply that he was a good stall pokemon with great longevity. Aegislash Shadow Sneak probably isn't the best way to deal with Trev, because Will-o-Wisp and most Trevenant go physically defensive. Aegislash's Shadow Ball would be a better bet in my opinion.

 

[Uore]

Trevenant has counters and pokemon that can handle him, that's undeniable. However, nobody claimed Trevenant was some sort of uncounterable monster, simply that he was a good stall pokemon with great longevity. Aegislash Shadow Sneak probably isn't the best way to deal with Trev, because Will-o-Wisp and most Trevenant go physically defensive. Aegislash's Shadow Ball would be a better bet in my opinion.

True.

Trevenant also has pretty crummy speed, so anything that can get set up specially can crush it.

 

[The Lucky Absol]

I came up with this set earlier, I have yet to try it out though so I have no Idea how effective this could be.
Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry/Kee Berry/Maranga Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Leech Seed
- Ingrain
- Protect/Substitute

This set could act as a very effective stalling set. With Curse and Leech seed damage, you're taking a significant chunk of their HP every turn. Leech seed+Ingrain restores a good percentage of your HP every turn as well. Protect would be immediate protection against attacking moves, stalling even more, but substitute prevents you from getting hit by a status move. Sitrus berry is self explanatory, but the Kee and Maranga berries could be an effective replacement. Every time you are hit by a physical/special move, that defensive stat gets boosted by one. Every time that berry activates, Trevenant becomes harder to take out.
Also, the Bold Nature and 0 Attack Ivs are for better protection against foul play.

Any thoughts?